Quote :

"And if we still need the "babysitter" mentality, why not mandate that all bars have to take the keys of their patrons, and can only give them back after they pass a BAC test?"

We would have to give immunity to bars if someone happens to get in an accident still. But if we WERE going to do something crazy, this is far more reasonable of a solution that putting machines in all cars.

7/13/2008 7:06:19 PM

Quote :

"not important not relevant who fucking cares"

it's just a question, and totally relevant with the kids being 17 and one of their legal guardians being here posting. it's important to me because i'd like to have all the facts before i form an opinion on something. sorry things like that don't matter to you.

Quote :

"ha, keep thinking you know me, you don't and you never will, just as I will never know why you act like you think you are perfect even though you are probably the furthest thing from it"

oh please, come off of it. you're the one that jumped in this thread talking all high and mighty about telling people "tough luck", not me. maybe someone should have told you that instead of making it "not exist". you're so accepting of your mistakes, it shouldn't have been any problem to just plead guilty, right?

maybe for the remainder of this thread instead of acting so self righteous and telling us all about being a secretary you could just sit back and reflect on the fact it could have easily been you that was indirectly responsible for such an event.

[Edited on July 13, 2008 at 7:38 PM. Reason : .]

7/13/2008 7:37:14 PM

yet another person that things going for them wiped out by a fucking retard.

at this rate only the tards and fuckwads will survive in the long run.

I would totally support a public ass kickin by this girl's father to the dumbass that killed her.

7/13/2008 7:40:07 PM

^^

i don't drive everyday at 4:30am or 5am, however I did during the summer when I was in HS or starting college for work and had to be there early.

It doesn't matter what time you drive - although you should be more careful if you are sober around 2-3am since bars are closing. The people who serve the drinks have to get home too though.

7/13/2008 8:49:34 PM

Quote :

"RALEIGH, N.C. - The family of a Chapel Hill teenager killed in an alleged drunk driving accident, wants to send a message to all teens. Lillian Manis, 17, died early Saturday morning after an accident on Glenwood Avenue. Another teen Justin Crouse, 19 hit the car Manis was in. Crouse is charged with felony death by motor vehicle and provisional DWI. Instead of getting ready to send their daughter to college a devastated family in Chapel Hill is making arrangements to bury her. "Without her, it's going to be a loss to the world and what she could have done," said Lilli's mom, Elizabeth Manis. Lilli was a month away from turning 18, two months away from heading to college where she was going to study Japanese and Art. "She took four years of Japanese at Chapel Hill High and she was going to go to Earlham -- it started August 22nd, she would have started, we would have left then and taken her there, she was really looking forward to it," said Lilli's Mom. But a car driven by an alleged drunk driver took all the dreams Lilli's parents had for her away. "I can't believe that someone, they wiped away, they took away my daughter, and took away my heart, and her father's heart and her brother's heart. I'm not sure how I'm going to go on without her," said Lilli's Mom. But with her, Lilli's parents say the world would have been a better place. The Chapel Hill High Grad followed Quaker traditions of non-violence, played the viola, was part of a sailing team and expressed herself through many different forms of art. "Lilli was one of the most incredibly gifted young ladies that you can imagine. She was a beautiful person both physically and within," said Lilli's Mom. And in the classroom Lilli had a passion for learning her teachers told her parents she was a gifted writer. "Then she would do things like take AP chemistry, just for fun, you know, she, not to say she always made the best grades but you know, she was a child that was always interested in learning," said Lilli's Mom. Now her parents want the world to learn from the tragic experience they're going through now. "The message that I would like to tell teenagers is actions, consequences, think, you don't go out and drink and drive," she said."

7/13/2008 9:15:18 PM

ok, so am i the only one wondering how a 1991 honda sustained 15k worth of damage?

7/13/2008 9:25:30 PM

as the resident honda man, i too have wondered that from day one.

7/13/2008 10:08:39 PM

obviously it's totaled

it's not hard to run up a 15K repair estimate for something that messed up

7/13/2008 10:15:14 PM

but the damage should total up to the value of the car... not exceed it.

7/13/2008 10:32:52 PM

when did i become a secretary? haha. yup you know me so well. kthanksbi

7/13/2008 10:37:09 PM

why would the damage only add up to the value of the car? the damage is the damage..the price to fix it is the price to fix it, period.

obviously the insurance company will just pay the value of the car since it's totaled

so really the 15K figure doesn't matter

7/13/2008 10:37:35 PM

the price to fix it is not the damages. damages cant exceed the value of something. I could blow your car into 15,000 pieces and it would cost 15 million to reassemble them, but that doesnt mean i did 15 million in damages.

7/13/2008 10:48:05 PM

^ 8

LINK?

7/13/2008 10:52:54 PM

ive seen a lot of damaged cars... ive seen 15K worth of damage. i dont know how/where on a 91 honda of any sort you can find 15K worth of damage.

7/13/2008 11:05:58 PM

What if it was a '91 Honda with huge spinners, tinted windows, a jawsome spoiler, a sweet system, and those little neon lights that go underneath the car?

7/13/2008 11:07:40 PM

so, any report on how the boyfriend is doing?


And also, I'd like to know what kept them out so late in the night. Granted, it isn't relevant because i believe when your number is called, there's nothing you can do about it.


A terrible loss for society... Send this sob to prison for a long time to think about what he's done

7/13/2008 11:08:16 PM

I mean I used to drive at 5am when I was 17, that does not mean I would have deserved to be broadsided at 50mph.

So what if he was driving her back home so she could sneak back in after a night out before her family woke up. We are in a sad state if we have to plan our schedules around when the drunk drivers are using the roads.

7/13/2008 11:25:02 PM

Quote :

"i don't drive everyday at 4:30am or 5am, however I did during the summer when I was in HS or starting college for work and had to be there early"

great, maybe that's what these kids were doing too. i wasn't accusing them of being out doing anything bad or wrong, just asking since it's rare for someone that age to be out at that time for anything and even rarer for them to be out doing something constructive or responsible. sounds like this girl had her stuff together though, so hopefully nothing like that comes out of it.

Quote :

"when did i become a secretary? haha. yup you know me so well. kthanksbi "

oh, i'm sorry for not being pc. personal assistant, paralegal, whatever you need to call it to make yourself feel more important is fine.

on the price thing, ^^^^^^ and ^^^^^^^ are right. even at that, it's mostly just a random guess. the police are not trained in estimating collision damage repairs.





[Edited on July 13, 2008 at 11:29 PM. Reason : .]

7/13/2008 11:28:11 PM

Quote :

""It was senseless. It was totally senseless and random,” Elizabeth Manis said of her daughter's death. "When you get the police knock on your door and it's your worst fear come true, you feel like someone has just ripped you apart.""

7/13/2008 11:33:59 PM

I bet she wishes she had stopped him from driving off.

Quote :

"A girl with whom WRAL spoke with Sunday afternoon said she saw Crouse about two hours before the wreck. She said she was concerned about his drinking and driving to the extent that she called 911 to warn authorities he was on the road. She said she gave dispatchers information about Crouse's car and the location he was driving."

7/13/2008 11:35:30 PM

^^^^^i don't know, i'd say the sad state is that we always like to place the total amount of blame on the scapegoat. then we regulate things that we can blame if they don't work. it's basically an issue of displacing as much personal responsibility as possible. i don't thank more government is the answer.

drunk driving is obviously a big problem, but don't let that one factor always skew your judgement and objectiveness.

[Edited on July 13, 2008 at 11:46 PM. Reason : .]

7/13/2008 11:45:59 PM

7/14/2008 12:30:30 AM

7/14/2008 12:34:28 AM

Quote :

"What if it was a '91 Honda with huge spinners, tinted windows, a jawsome spoiler, a sweet system, and those little neon lights that go underneath the car?"

ahahahaha

As for being out at that time, she could have been going to work, they could have been heading out to Atlantic beach, they could have been driving back from a friend's party.

Also, as usual, WRAL fails at reporting.

Quote :

"before 5 a.m. at Glenwood and Lynn Drive"

Quote :

"Jurov had a green light at the Lynn Road intersection"

I swear their reporters are drunk when writing shit half the time.

I remember being sent out to campaign at that intersection in 2004 and watching a couple car accidents at that intersection.

7/14/2008 1:39:00 AM

Here's some pictures of the girl who died. http://www.wral.com/news/local/image_gallery/3197588/

R.I.P.

7/14/2008 2:29:22 AM

Thanks for posting the pictures.

7/14/2008 6:11:01 AM

a while back, I had made the unfortunate aquaintance who went on to get 2 DUIs in one week. Also knew of someone much closer to me that got a DUI and had his license suspended upon arrest but continued to drive. I do not think it would be unreasonable to impound the vehicle until the charge has been resolved in court. If anything it would encourage people to resolve their cases more speedily instead of drawing them out for months with repeated continuances. I say this as someone who has been in traffic court not for DUI, but for a lesser offense that did result in suspension of my license. I was a student at the time, so I did have my vehicle impounded- not by the law, but by my parents. I did operate a motor vehicle during my period of suspension on more than one occasion, but it was much more difficult than if I had retained posession of my car. this may have saved me from making some other poor decisions, particularly in the period of time that i felt more reckless and angsty due to my misfortune. I know similar feelings were behind the actions of the guy with 2 DUIs in one week, and he may have been a lot safer if he didn't have access to the vehicle which he was legally unable to drive anyway.

7/14/2008 6:30:19 AM

Or require the BAC tester to be installed before the car comes out of impound. ^

That would accomplish the same thing but without the person completely losing the means of traveling to and from their job. I mean yeah "they should lose their job for being irresponsible" but what do most drinkers do when they are not at work..........................(yeah)

We want these people to get their lives back on track so that they do not become a bigger threat to public safety.

7/14/2008 8:09:25 AM

DWIs are already guilty until proven innocent.

Seriously i wish everyone could have the chance to go through our court system just once to realize this country is not as fair as you think it is. The people that are supposed to protect us aren't much better than the criminals they're supposed to protect us from.

My guess is this whole dwi think will be less of a problem in the near future... we're going to have to put a lot of money into public transportation because of gas prices and the inability for certain people to be able to afford travel. Once this happens hopefully the drunks will use public transport.

But seriously to drink as much as this guy has... he must be a career drinker and someone should have said something sooner to stop this.


[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 8:14 AM. Reason : .]

7/14/2008 8:10:12 AM

Is the person who some how did the deed associated with someone on this site? It sounds like there are a lot of undercurrents to this thread that I do not understand.

Also, an interlock system placed into every car creates a larger problem than drunk driving does. Sure everyone hates drunk driving, but we are severly limited for many logical and rational reasons to preventing and punishing it.

Placing a hinderance onto the millions of responsible drivers because a small percentage of the population engages in drunk driving is the not the way to do it. By placing an interlock system onto all automobiles, you are telling people they can longer use mouth wash when brushing their teeth and a myriad of other products that have no influence over their ability to drive.

Drunk Driving is a problem, but not the problem madd and others make it out to be.

7/14/2008 12:14:40 PM

The Justin Crouse dude was hanging out at Rocky Horror Picture Show before hand, how interesting.

My youngest sister knows him

7/14/2008 12:26:11 PM

Quote :

"I do not think it would be unreasonable to impound the vehicle until the charge has been resolved in court."

i cant agree with this

driving while drunk is horrible and it kills people, but this falls under the guilty until proven innocent category

7/14/2008 12:28:59 PM

Quote :

"I do not think it would be unreasonable to impound the vehicle until the charge has been resolved in court."

What about other equally dangerous charges involving an automobile? Wreckless driving, excessive speed? We cannot and should not treat one automobile offense of equal par and footing differently than we do others.

7/14/2008 12:32:56 PM

I think impounding the vehicle for repeat offenders is completely reasonable

7/14/2008 12:41:19 PM

Quote :

"You are drunk and therefore not making the best decisions."

lol yet the law doesn't give a fuck, you're still liable for what you do when drunk.

"best decisions" or not.... millions of people manage to get drunk everyday and not drive....

most pathetic excuse ever

7/14/2008 12:41:45 PM

Quote :

"why should the millions of safe, non-drunk driving Americans be forced to pay an extra $2k"

1) Why would this pertain to Americans only? Is this country that bad that we consider ourselves alcoholics?

2) Wouldn't your life be worth more than $2k, because if you have it, someone else might too? (I mean, I'd pay the extra $2k just for the fact that it may save my life or someone I know down the road...) The only way around this is if they are driving an older car without it. It would take a while (years) before it would be effective. I assume most drunks have to buy/drive old used cars over and over again since they spend any savings they have on alcohol instead of more important things. By that time anyways, those crazy drunks will have had enough downtime to figure out how to play the system I'm sure...

3) I feel bad for the kid. I mean, the media just gave away his address. I would move if I were him so I didn't meet a mob of people who wanted to be my sorry ass for killing a 17 year old.

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 12:44 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2008 12:42:12 PM

Quote :

"I feel bad for the kid. I mean, the media just gave away his address. I would move if I were him so I didn't meet a mob of people who wanted to be my sorry ass for killing a 17 year old."

why? in what possible world do you think he deserves decent or "fair" treatment of any kind? driving drunk is not an "oops" thing...if you're drinking, don't get in the fucking car in the first place...no one makes you do it...because of that, if something like this happens, you DESERVE to have your life ruined forever

if you NEED to be driving, you don't NEED to be drinking...and if you CHOOSE to drink, you had better damn well CHOOSE to do it responsibly

7/14/2008 12:45:12 PM

^ Holy shit man. Can I get you a nice cold glass of water or something? Chill out... lol... I didn't mean anythin by that other than I wouldn't think that the press would give out an offender's address like that. I mean, I'm sure it's all public information anyways, but it just never ceases to amaze me how much info the press really gives out sometimes...

I really don't care, and I don't honestly feel sorry for him. It was more of a "heh, wow, I wouldn't be surprised to hear somethin happen to him or his house in the next few days..." My bad quag.

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 12:53 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2008 12:52:47 PM

^ ah...i thought that was genuine sympathy for him, and i just can't comprehend that...my mistake

7/14/2008 12:54:25 PM

No problem. The internet has a way of hiding sarcasm sometimes... all is well.


And for the record, that mofo shoulda died. Why is it always the victims in the accidents that die. WTF. That always royally pisses me off.

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 12:59 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2008 12:58:10 PM

there was a short stretch in my life where i drank and drove a lot

one nite i didn't even remember dropping one of my friends off so i said no more

now i just think about the song "limousine" by brand new and the story behind the song - it sends shivers down my spine

i can't imagine drinking and driving ever again after seeing some of the consequences

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9IRHu1F1Vw

i just take cabs now

7/14/2008 1:09:48 PM

i def. don't drink and drive anymore.

i'm sure i've driven at .08 to .10 some times, but never above that. .10 is nothing.

7/14/2008 1:17:10 PM

Quote :

"I think all cars should have the touch BAC testers embedded under the steering wheel. So many lives would be saved."

yea, but you know that you would be able to find a hack on the internet in like 2 seconds

7/14/2008 1:30:50 PM

i'd rather have a smart drunk driver than a dumb drunk driver on the road

7/14/2008 1:35:40 PM

^

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

7/14/2008 1:44:40 PM

Quote :

"You are drunk and therefore not making the best decisions"

This excuse doesn't work for other crimes like rape or domestic violence, so why should it work here?

7/14/2008 2:23:50 PM

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO HAVE ROBOT CARS THAT DRIVE THEMSELVES??!?

7/14/2008 2:37:46 PM

Quote :

"This excuse doesn't work for other crimes like rape or domestic violence, so why should it work here?"

It works in issues of consent, however, just another example of the schizophrenic nature of the American legal system.

7/14/2008 2:38:39 PM

People that want them installed on all cars...move to Sweden.

7/14/2008 3:31:29 PM

a more simple solution would be reinstating prohibition.

[Edited on July 14, 2008 at 3:34 PM. Reason : 5]

7/14/2008 3:34:31 PM