I've heard that damn near everywhere.

9/11/2008 10:18:35 AM

I've never heard of it. In fact, I've heard of places that continue to increase a property's tax value even though its market value has gone down. I just successfully appealed to get the tax value decreased by 20K. It's the same house it was last week. It's not like the market value went down by 20K. The market value is the same this week as it was last week.

[Edited on September 11, 2008 at 10:25 AM. Reason : ]

9/11/2008 10:25:01 AM

my tax assesment value hasnt changed in a number of years and i'd like to keep it that way

it's over 100k less than market value, which is a substantial difference in annual taxes.

9/11/2008 10:55:51 AM

Quote :

"Where did you hear that?"

Quote :

"I've heard that damn near everywhere."

pretty much

Quote :

"It's the same house it was last week. It's not like the market value went down by 20K. The market value is the same this week as it was last week."

those really aren't valid arguments unless your house is reassessed weekly...if it's been 10 years since it was assessed, i think there's some validity to idea that the tax value of a home might change over time

that said, i surely wouldn't want my taxes to go up, nor do i feel that the county is entitled to it...but to pretend that the value shouldn't change over time, with relation to inflation, development, etc., is a bit obtuse, don't you think?

[Edited on September 11, 2008 at 11:10 AM. Reason : nevermind...it was drtaylor and DaBird]

9/11/2008 11:01:54 AM

Quote :

"i'm sorry if i'm thinking of someone else"

Yeah, that def was not me. I always suggest using a realtor to buy a house but I certainly wouldn't say it is dangerous/impossible to buy a house without one.

Quote :

"those really aren't valid arguments unless your house is reassessed weekly...if it's been 10 years since it was assessed, i think there's some validity to idea that the tax value of a home might change over time"

It was reassessed this past year. My point was that there isn't a direct correlation between to the two values. You even said

Quote :

"the market value of the house should also being going up (not because of the tax value change"

[Edited on September 11, 2008 at 11:11 AM. Reason : ]

9/11/2008 11:10:30 AM

Quote :

"Yeah, that def was not me. I'd always suggest using a realtor to buy a house but I certainly wouldn't say it is dangerous/impossible to buy a house without one."

yeah, sorry about that...i went and checked and it's drtaylor and DaBird that were saying that without an agent, you're going to get screwed...it's all you users that start with "D"

Quote :

"It was reassessed this past year. My point was that there isn't a direct correlation between to the two values."

which two values? tax value and market value? i think you might have misinterpreted my point (or i may have expressed it poorly)

i don't think market value has ANYTHING (or, at least, very little) to do with tax value...what i'm saying, though, is that the county attempts to get the maximum amount of tax money out of your house/property that they can...the calculation of tax value has a number of factors...my point was that the market value relies on many of those same factors, so the tax value and market values would (in theory) increase or decrease pretty evenly in relation to each other, due to those factors

the 20% discrepancy goes into a number of things like the condition of the house itself (peeling paint won't really affect the tax value, but it'll definitely affect the market value)...i'm not really saying market value is a function of tax value, but that you can determine ballpark market value based on the tax value

[Edited on September 11, 2008 at 11:19 AM. Reason : .]

9/11/2008 11:17:11 AM

Quote :

"i don't think market value has ANYTHING (or, at least, very little) to do with tax value"

Right, which I why I fail to see why an increase in tax value should make you jump for joy. If you get an appraisal and that is higher than what you paid that would make me jump for joy. I don't give a damn about the tax value. I just try to keep it as low as possible.

9/11/2008 11:22:37 AM

Quote :

"Right, which I why I fail to see why an increase in tax value should make you jump for joy. If you get an appraisal and that is higher than what you paid that would make me jump for joy. I don't give a damn about the tax value. I just try to keep it as low as possible."

well, it doesn't make ME jump for joy (that was someone else )...but, if you go with the 80% rule, and assume that the same factors that increased your tax value will also increase your market value (i realize these are just assumptions, but they're valid), then you could assume that your market value also went up

for example, if you have an $80k house that you paid $100k for 2 years ago and that is now assessed at $85k, that means your market value is now $106,250

you're not actually PAYING $5,000 more in taxes, but you would GET $6,250 more for the house...does that make sense? so for a ~$75 increase in taxes, you're getting a net profit of $6,175

THAT'S why an increase in tax value is not necessarily a bad thing IF it's because of those same factors that influence market value...yes, i'm certainly making assumptions, but they're valid and generally accepted assumptions

[Edited on September 11, 2008 at 11:42 AM. Reason : .]

9/11/2008 11:30:36 AM

Your example confused the fuck out of me.

9/11/2008 11:31:37 AM

^ haha, okay...let me try again...can we agree, at least, that market value is almost always higher than tax value? i think that, if you do the math on a couple of examples, you'll see that the 80% rule is pretty close

in 2006, you bought your house for $100,000...the tax value on the books was $80,000 (assuming tax rate of 1.5%, your tax payment is $1,200)

in 2008, your house is reassessed and your new tax value is $85,000 and now your tax payment is $1,275...but, those factors that made the value of your taxable land/house go up ALSO increase the market value (let's say increased development, new school, whatever)...so now, your house that had a market value of $100,000 2 years ago now has a market value of $106,250 because of all the development going on around you and that brand new elementary school

you're paying $75 more in taxes each year, sure, but if you sold your house right after the assessment, the factors that increased your value would yield you $6,250 MORE than you bought it for

i don't know that that helped

[Edited on September 11, 2008 at 11:44 AM. Reason : .]

9/11/2008 11:41:48 AM

When I got my forms for the reassessment it kept referring to the "taxable market value" which was the value the house could be sold at by a seller who wasn't under duress to sell to a buyer who wasn't under duress to buy. It lead me to believe I was taxed on the complete value for which Durham though the house could be sold.

[Edited on September 11, 2008 at 11:44 AM. Reason : ]

9/11/2008 11:44:08 AM

Quote :

"It lead me to believe I was taxed on the complete value for which Durham though the house could be sold."

that is and isn't true...you can sell the house for $1, if you'd like, but you and durham county both know the value of the house isn't $1, just like (i assume) it isn't worth a billion dollars (though, technically, someone could pay that much for it if they wanted to)

that "complete" value you're referring to is the result of a number of factors, and is (generally) the MINIMUM that the house is "worth" (the problem with all of this is that "worth" is subjective)...durham county does not dictate the housing market (not directly, anyway), so they can't really tax you on what the TRUE market value of the house is (which is why tax value is always lower...you'd have a lot of pissed off people if the tax value of the house was higher than what they could actually sell it for)

9/11/2008 12:30:20 PM

Quote :

"they can't really tax you on what the TRUE market value of the house is (which is why tax value is always lower...you'd have a lot of pissed off people if the tax value of the house was higher than what they could actually sell it for)"

That's the case in some places.

With house prices down, why are tax assessments up?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/367386_assessment18.html

[Edited on September 11, 2008 at 12:45 PM. Reason : link]

9/11/2008 12:37:49 PM

The tax value is just the average for your area. If your tax value is $200k then houses in your neighborhood with similar sizes probably go for $170k-$230k.

(Assuming square footage, add'l buildings, etc. are all the same)
Some people will have the $170k house with busted old carpet and linoleum that needs a roof.
Some people will have the $230k house that is in good shape and has recent updates.
Everybody will get the $200k tax value.

9/11/2008 12:51:54 PM

But tax rates can set a bar for market value; you won't go too far from tax value (at least down, the market price can be significantly higher).

Quote :

"not completely true. A lot of places are restricted to what they can do by local laws / convenants or HOA's"

You might not have complete freedom, but have vastly more freedom than a rental. And most local laws/convenants/HOA's are for either safety (building codes) or external appearance. If you're with an HOA that is so tight that you can't make some changes you want, you should have checked that HOA before buying the house.

9/11/2008 11:50:41 PM