Quote :

"The aim of liberal education, however, is not to produce scientists. It seeks to develop free human beings who know how to use their minds and are able to think for themselves. Its primary aim is not the development of professional competence, although a liberal education is indispensable for any intellectual profession. It produces citizens who can exercise their political liberty responsibly. It develops cultivated persons who can use their leisure fruitfully. It is an education for all free men, whether they intend to be scientists or not. Our educational problem is how to produce free men, not hordes of uncultivated, trained technicians. Only the best liberal schooling can accomplish this. It must include all the humanities as well as mathematics and the sciences. It must exclude all merely vocational and technical training."

I largely agree with this. I always cringe when I hear some of my fellow engineers talk about getting rid of the liberal arts portions of the curriculum.

8/25/2008 9:18:33 PM

Quote :

"It seeks to develop free human beings who know how to use their minds and are able to think for themselves. Its primary aim is not the development of professional competence, although a liberal education is indispensable for any intellectual profession. It produces citizens who can exercise their political liberty responsibly. It develops cultivated persons who can use their leisure fruitfully. It is an education for all free men, whether they intend to be scientists or not. "

Then it has completely and utterly failed.

A classical liberal education doesn't exist anymore. Liberal Arts degrees do not equal a liberal education, at least in classical terms defined during and after the Enlightenment.

8/25/2008 9:24:17 PM

Is failure a function of the curicculum or the students?

8/25/2008 9:33:00 PM

it's a failure of the American educational system, i.e. the "Factory Model"

Generally speaking, kids from the very earliest ages are taught by rote memorization. Year after year of being force fed information then regurgitating it in a slightly varied pattern gives them all the grades they need to succeed and move along. By high school, they've so completely come to rely on this routine, they will be helpless when asked to do something requiring abstract thought.

This "Factory Model" is all about capacity. It wants to push through the largest number of products (students) in the most cost- and time-efficient manner (memorize-and-recite), with the fewest amount of outliers (gifted students and retards) requiring expensive and time-consuming rework (specialized programs)

basically, conformity is rewarded, and the widespread plagiarism of ideas goes largely unchecked because, except in the most blatant cases of outright copying, its cost-prohibitive to track down

so by the time our kids GET to college, the ability to think creatively is largely crushed out of them. at this point there's only so much a college can do. they're dealing with whats given to them.

add to this that in many universities, teaching takes a back seat to grant-driven research and publishing... and, well, you know the rest of the story.








[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 10:39 PM. Reason : ]

8/25/2008 10:18:42 PM

To me, at least, most of college is what the student gets out of it, not what the teacher or college puts into it. So many students seem to be just punching holes in their ticket to where-ever, with little thought to what they're actually supposed to be accomplishing.

I certainly agree that there are problems with the system. My biggest issue with primary education is that it seems to be geared exclusively to putting people in college. Unfortunately, not everybody wants to go to college.

Quote :

"teaching takes a back seat to grant-driven research and publishing"

The ECE department has this problem, big time.

8/25/2008 10:38:45 PM

^^ Love this post.

Within less than a year my dreams in the corporate world were crushed when I learned that everyone surrounding me and above me was less competent than I was.

I only thank god that I was born into privelege and don't have student loan debt.


Im looking for ways out but Im waiting to pick my spot.


College is an enormous waste of time and resources.

I grew up in a small town where kids who didnt go to college were numerous and people looked at them like they didn't have a shot.

They are our managers now because they have 4 years work experience. They also have assets rather than debts.

8/26/2008 12:52:19 AM

wait ... are you saying that small town kids who didnt go to college are now your supervisors (even though you have a college degree) because... they have 4 years "experience" whereas you "only" have a degree?

what industry do you work in? i'm willing to be you are NOT working in your degree field.

what was your degree in?





[Edited on August 26, 2008 at 1:40 AM. Reason : ]

8/26/2008 1:38:06 AM