^^terpball was the exact opposite...is that who they're targeting?

^i dunno thats about the strongest ticket the Dems couldve come up with this year, plus it would eliminate the possibility that Hillary sabotages the shit out of Obama's campaign

dont say "you repubs" though when referring to me

[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 11:57 AM. Reason : .]

8/25/2008 11:57:27 AM

lol come on guy...repubs were foaming at the teeth hoping clinton was on the ticket

8/25/2008 11:59:43 AM

were they?

maybe Obama asked Hillary and she refused for pride

They both rode affirmative action to become the first black (mixed race) and female presidential candidates with a real shot of winning...you know the woman didn't want the black guy to win and the black guy didn't want the woman to win, even though they both love them some affirmative action...ironic

[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 12:01 PM. Reason : .]

8/25/2008 12:00:27 PM

^^Basically. But it's a lot easier for them now because they know most black people aren't going to vote Republican regardless of whether Obama won or lost

8/25/2008 12:02:33 PM

now? they already know most black people historically dont vote Republican...i dont see what you're getting at

8/25/2008 12:08:51 PM

yeah i agreed with the basically thing but i dont get the other part either

8/25/2008 12:09:43 PM

"Now" as in now that Obama won rather than Hillary

8/25/2008 12:16:11 PM

so you're saying now that its official that its obama and not hillary, its easier for the repubs? i still dont get it

8/25/2008 12:17:55 PM

I'm just saying that of the people who were voting on identity rather than policy, most Hillary voters that feel disenfranchised are easier targets than Obama voters would have been if he had lost the primary. Possibly because they're more likely to have an emotional reaction.

8/25/2008 12:21:51 PM

i think now that hillary is not on the ticket in any shape or form its harder for repubs

8/25/2008 12:22:24 PM

i still say keep an eye out for hillary...her team is probably already working out the logistics for beating McCain's re-election hopes in 2012...McCain reelected in 012 you say? that would imply that he actually beats Obama in November? Yes, assuming Hillary is a sore loser and decides to bring out something 10x worse than Rac. Wright

[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 12:24 PM. Reason : .]

8/25/2008 12:23:36 PM

i see patraeus running in 2012 for some reason...thought that since like last sept

8/25/2008 12:26:53 PM

depends who is the incumbant

8/25/2008 12:28:27 PM

well obviously lol

8/25/2008 12:29:53 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080825/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_clinton;_ylt=AsgzXcWCRcusLO7nHzrTiD6yFz4D


wonder how the repubs will spin this one...i'm guessing something like "shes so full of shit, shes just doing this cause she "has to"...shes setting herself up for 2012" etc etc etc

8/25/2008 2:26:10 PM

why would repubs want to "spin" that?

8/25/2008 3:02:38 PM

Quote :

""Senator McCain will bring a lifetime of experience to the campaign," Hillary said. "I will bring a lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will bring a speech he gave in 2002.""

-- Hillary Clinton

Democrats internal party self pwnage

8/25/2008 3:28:15 PM

^^lol idk...same reason they keep harping on how obama "rejected" her?

8/25/2008 3:29:12 PM

DNL how do you think Hillary will try to spin that one ^^ now that she supposedly supports Obama? How will she try to spin her own words that she spoke less than 6 months ago?

It's kinda like "The Case Against Obama - In His Hillary's Own Words"

[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 3:36 PM. Reason : .]

8/25/2008 3:32:43 PM

dnl, its clear mccain is trying to get voters who are bitter about clinton not being on the ticket. Simply seating florida and michigan after the fact is fucking retarded and will do nothing to make her supporters happy. Its kinda like the Patriots playing the Giants preseason and calling it the superbowl.

tree, I love that quote. It made me laugh when she said it.

[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 4:11 PM. Reason : .]

8/25/2008 4:11:01 PM

I like the Biden quote from the other day myself

Quote :

" Ladies and gentlemen, your kitchen table is like mine. You sit there at night before you put the kids -- after you put the kids to bed and you talk, you talk about what you need. You talk about how much you are worried about being able to pay the bills. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that's not a worry John McCain has to worry about. It's a pretty hard experience. He'll have to figure out which of the seven kitchen tables to sit at."

Though his quote may not be accurate, McCain may have 10 properties to choose from:

No. Location Type Price Bought Owner
1 Phoenix, AZ Condo $4,666,814 2006 Cindy McCain Trust
2 Coronado, CA Condo $2,705,040 ? Dreamcatcher Family
3 Coronado, CA Condo $2,100,000 2008 Dreamcatcher Family
4 Sedona, AZ House $405,707 ? Cindy McCain Trust
5 Sedona, AZ House $369,929 ? Cindy McCain Trust
6 Sedona, AZ House $327,929 ? Sedona Hidden Valley Ltd. Partnership
7 La Jolla, CA Condo >$1,000,000 ? Hensley Survivors Trust
8 Arlington, VA Condo $847,800 ? Cindy McCain Trust
9 Phoenix, AZ Loft $700,000 2007 Meghan McCain
10 Phoenix, AZ Loft $700,000 2007 Wild River LLC
(electoral-vote.com)

8/25/2008 4:35:53 PM

Quote :

"McCain may have 10 properties to choose from"

so he (his wife) actually owns 3 houses

no it actually that looks like a list of property values over time and not just properties

ie

1 1 Phoenix, AZ Condo $4,666,814 2006 Cindy McCain Trust

22 Coronado, CA Condo $2,705,040 ? Dreamcatcher Family
3 Coronado, CA Condo $2,100,000 2008 Dreamcatcher Family

34 Sedona, AZ House $405,707 ? Cindy McCain Trust
5 Sedona, AZ House $369,929 ? Cindy McCain Trust
6 Sedona, AZ House $327,929 ? Sedona Hidden Valley Ltd. Partnership

47 La Jolla, CA Condo >$1,000,000 ? Hensley Survivors Trust

58 Arlington, VA Condo $847,800 ? Cindy McCain Trust

69 Phoenix, AZ Loft $700,000 2007 Meghan McCain
10 Phoenix, AZ Loft $700,000 2007 Wild River LLC

looks like "he" owns 6 properties, only one of them being a house

the loft in phoenix had the name transferred, probably shortly after purchase since the value didnt drop...looks like he's had the Sedona house for awhile since there are 3 different appraisal values...thats how i'm reading it at least i could be wrong

[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

8/25/2008 4:49:30 PM

Quote :

"DNL how do you think Hillary will try to spin that one ^^ now that she supposedly supports Obama? How will she try to spin her own words that she spoke less than 6 months ago?"

lol what do you expect her to do?

8/25/2008 5:37:24 PM

You're wrong treetwista, those listed are all separate.

http://www.mccainvminnesota.com/cribs.html

Now the site may be biased but the info it goes on is probably pretty solid.

This site says 8: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/635/

8/25/2008 7:57:30 PM

skankinmonkey is right about the homes. those are not duplicate entries.

the three adjoining ranch homes (at three separately zoned addresses) in sedona are sometimes counted as a single property, now that McCain has merged them into a mega-ranch complex. So the total is either 8 or 10 depending on how you count Sedona.

the problem is not that McCain can't remember how many homes they own

the problem is that McCain can't remember how many homes they own.

it'd be one thing if he just would man up and admit he's stinking rich, but he's trying to paint himself as some kind of maverick that breaks with the traditional republican bloc, that he's an average guy who understands the problems of ordinary folks.

sorry, but ten (10) separate homes, with a total value greater than $13,000,000 ... that ain't maverick, or normal, or average, or ordinary.

what it is, is just another filthy rich sonofabitch who's primary concern is to reduce the tax rates for the richest 1% of the population, protecting our our endangered species, the noble American "Leisure Class".







[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 8:57 PM. Reason : ]

8/25/2008 8:39:25 PM

why would he want to reduce taxes for the richest 1%? isnt that what bush did already?

8/25/2008 8:43:01 PM

the cuts are set to expire. he want's to renew them. the distinction is one of semantics.

8/25/2008 8:44:49 PM

Quote :

"1n 2006, McCains Purchased Two Condominiums in Phoenix For $4,666,814. According to property records from Maricopa County, Arizona, the McCains spent $4,666,814 Condominium in Phoenix, AZ in 2006. Officially, the sale was made to The Cindy Hensley McCain Family Trust on October 18, 2006. (2211 E Camelback Rd., Units 1105& 1106, 85016) [Maricopa County Property Records] * The McCains Own A $4.7 Million Condo, Vastly Exceeding The Neighborhood’s Average Home Value of $375,011. In a profile of presidential candidates’ homes, the Richmond Times-Dispatch reported that the McCain’s condominium in Phoenix is worth an estimated $4.7 million. The average home value in their neighborhood is reported to be $375,011. They added, “Cindy McCain, heiress to the John Hensley liquor empire, paid $3 million for two units, which the couple combined for 6,000 square feet.” [Richmond Times-Dispatch, 2/10/08] * The McCains Converted the Two Condominiums Into A “Single Dwelling.” According to The Arizona Republic, “Property records show that Cindy [McCain’s] trust recently bought a condo at the Residences at 2211 Camelback for $4.66 million.” The paper added, “The deal was actually for two condos that could be combined to one space of 6,000 to 7,000 square feet. That is plenty of elbow room, even for a high-end condo, in a region where the typical single-family home runs about 1,600 square feet.” [Arizona Republic, 10/26/06, emphasis added] The McCains’ Primary Residence Is Outfitted With The Following Amenities: • Valet parking for residents and guests • Travel and driver services. • Roof top pool terrace with zero edge pool, sun deck, spa, fire pit, gas barbeque, and panoramic mountain and downtown views • Exclusive resident party room featuring separate guest entrance from porte-cochere, fireplace, 50” plasma • Fitness Center with state-of-the-art equipment, men’s and ladies’ locker rooms, steam rooms, and massage room. • Roof top entertainment terrace with lounge seating and breathtaking views of Piestewa Peak "

[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 9:02 PM. Reason : ]

8/25/2008 9:00:49 PM

It'll be interesting to see if McCain can match the stupidity of this pick. Biden. Really? Nice going Barry, way to demonstrate you're all about "change". When I think Biden I think change. Its not like he is one of the most tired liberal senators to choose. Its like he's trying to lose.

McCains matching pick would be Leiberman. That is the choice that caters to the category he already owns.

8/25/2008 11:52:04 PM

^You're fucking stupid.

Joe Biden kicks ass and tears Republicans to shreds. He is one of the best Senators in Congress right now. His experience brings the yang to Obama's charisma ying.

Joe Biden is the only Senator I've ever heard publicly refer to a Bush policy as "bullshit."

8/25/2008 11:55:19 PM

yeah people like ^^ are annoying...if obama had picked clinton, repubs woulda foamed at the mouth to talk shit...if obama picked kaine he woulda foamed at the mouth saying he doesnt have enough experience, etc etc etc

8/25/2008 11:57:12 PM

God brings the Dang Dang to my Bling Bling

8/26/2008 1:31:16 AM

It's almost as though Barack Obama decided he wasn't enough like John Kerry.

The world makes me a cynical person and then I see shit like this. And I realize -- even people in positions of amazing power are just that dumb.

They are dumb enough to make the "safe" (doctrinaire) choice even though it reinforces the stereotypes.

They are dumb enough to choose Joe "Who?" after running a campaign of self-definition. Because defining two people is easier than defining one.

They are dumb enough to believe that one good speech got you in the door, and the next one will get you into the Oval Office.

To win at any game that counts, you have to be remarkable. Biden isn't remarkable, he's just the name that's in the news sometimes. Obama doesn't see past the halls of the Senate and that's sad.

It doesn't matter who McCain picks now, he's won. So much for this election, guys. Sorry.

8/26/2008 6:17:20 AM

lol profound

8/26/2008 9:16:34 AM

just curious for those dems here all pissed off about how many homes mccain owns, doesnt Kerry have a bigger net worth than McCain? (granted, they both are from thier wives)


Actually joe, mccain wants to reduce everyones taxes and cut coorporate tax rates that will benefit workers. This jealously and class warfare shit really gets old.

8/26/2008 9:24:53 AM

^ x3

it's certainly looking that way

8/26/2008 9:25:54 AM

We'll see.

8/26/2008 9:35:34 AM

^x5 Related to the "Obama doesn't see past the halls of the Senate" aspect of your post, I, too, think that the Biden choice was a mistake. I think Obama should have picked Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius.



Just a few reasons why:

1. She's in her second term as governor.

2. She has experience as a state legislator and insurance commissioner.

3. She old enough (60)--but not too old. She brings the "gray-haired experience" that so many pundits were rambling about concerning Biden.

4. And she's an executive! Like it or not, folks, we don't have a great tradition in the last few decades of electing senators. Voters, it seems, like an executive that has been the go-to person in charge of a large governmental entity--many like a commander, not decisions by committee.

5. She's a woman. Now, this could alienate some Hillary voters, but it could also bring some in. In addition, Obama could counter any alienation by reaching out in a meaningful manner to Hillary voters and--I think--pledging to offer Hillary a high-level cabinet position.

PS: I disagree about McCain winning, though. I wish it were so, but I think Obama will win--unfortunately.

[Edited on August 26, 2008 at 9:40 AM. Reason : ]

8/26/2008 9:35:55 AM

as anyone heard "the next president" joe biden's rant about him having a higher IQ than the reporter then goes on lying about his education, rank, scholarships. LOL. Its actually pretty funny stuff.

8/26/2008 9:51:32 AM

^ I'm telling you, Biden has always seemed different to me since he had brain surgery back in the '80s. And I swear I do not mean this as an attack.

8/26/2008 10:00:02 AM

Quote :

"She's a woman. Now, this could alienate some Hillary voters, but it could also bring some in."

Last year, all the talk was "is america 'ready' for a black or woman president?" Many say yes, some still say no. Judging from Obama's polling, i think in general, the answer now is "yes" (let's chalk up his recent dip in the polls from policy and campaigning errors, not his race). If Obama loses at this point, I don't think it will be because of his race.

However, I still think that having an old, white male on his ticket is a positive gain, as far as bringing in more voter, at least compared to any of the women in question.
As salon.com said a few months ago against an obama/clinton ticket, no matter who came out on top - "Obama/Hillary will already have to break the glass ceiling. No need to make it double-paned"

8/26/2008 10:01:41 AM

^ You're absolutely fucking obsessed with this "old, white male" thing, aren't you?

8/26/2008 10:08:16 AM

give it a rest, you self righteous asshole
you're one of those old, white males now. I don't know what your problem with that is

8/26/2008 11:26:30 AM

Quote :

"However, I still think that having an old, white male on his ticket is a positive gain, as far as bringing in more voter, at least compared to any of the women in question."

Quote :

"OLD WHITE REPUBLICAN LEADS IN THE SOUTH! MORE, at 10:00"

agentlyin

message_topic.aspx?topic=529192&page=18

Dude, just STFU.

8/26/2008 11:51:31 AM

Quote :

"^^terpball was the exact opposite...is that who they're targeting?"

what?

8/26/2008 4:07:08 PM

if you read through the previous posts you'd understand, but i was just pointing out to DNL how i recalled you saying if Hillary got the nomination over Barack (this was months ago), that you said you'd either vote for McCain, or just wouldn't vote, (can't remember which of the two) because you hated Hillary so much and that she was a racist

8/26/2008 5:28:05 PM

8/27/2008 11:29:28 AM

Furhman? Furhman?

That's a Racist name!

Furhman...German...The man's Obviously a racist.

8/27/2008 11:33:36 AM

der Fuhrer-Mann

8/27/2008 11:36:29 AM

Some of you fuckheads are always bitching about McCain and lobbyists. . .

Obama, Biden's Son Linked by Earmarks

Quote :

"Sen. Barack Obama sought more than $3.4 million in congressional earmarks for clients of the lobbyist son of his Democratic running mate, Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, records show. Obama succeeded in getting $192,000 for one of the clients, St. Xavier University in suburban Chicago. Obama's campaign has taken a hard stance against the world of lobbying in the nation's capital. Obama said he limits his own efforts to get money for pet projects -- a process known as earmarking -- to those that benefit the public. He has posted his earmark requests on his presidential campaign Web site to encourage transparency."

Quote :

"Sen. Biden has collected more than $6.9 million in campaign contributions from lobbyists and lawyers since 1989, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. A spokesman for the Obama campaign said that Hunter Biden himself has never lobbied his father. Another lobbyist in the firm successfully sought an earmark from the senator for the University of Delaware. But Hunter did not work on the account, the spokesman said."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/26/AR2008082603894.html

Biden Tied to Rezko Fraud Figure
Vice-Presidential Candidate's Former Campaign Advisor and Fundraiser Aided Kickback Scheme

Quote :

"Barack Obama's vice-presidential pick complicates the Democratic hopeful's efforts to distance himself from a far-reaching Chicago patronage scandal. Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., brings to Obama's presidential campaign assets like foreign policy experience and a knowledge of Washington. But he also brings another tie to the Antoin "Tony" Rezko scandal, a mess that has already caused sizeable headaches for the Obama campaign. Chicago lawyer and onetime mega-fundraiser Joseph Cari has advised Biden and his campaigns on and off since 1984, serving in posts as varied as a Senate adviser on crime to the Midwest Political Director for Biden's aborted 1987 presidential bid. In 2005 Cari helped arrange private meetings for Biden with potential supporters, as the senator explored another run for the White House. He has also worked to raise money for Biden . Cari never attended those meetings, however. Days before they were scheduled to take place he learned he was under investigation as part of the Rezko probe and excused himself from the events, a spokesman explained Sunday. Federal prosecutors indicted Cari in August 2005 and in September Cari cut a deal, agreeing to cooperate with the government's investigation and pleading guilty to a count of attempted extortion. Cari admitt ed that in 2004 he helped a Rezko associate by making calls in what turned out to be a kickback scheme. The deal was an offshoot of a complex corruption scheme wrought by Antoin 'Tony' Rezko , whose ties to Obama have vexed the White House hopeful. Cari has maintained he did not know the details of that scheme or any other."

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5649093&page=1

Lobbyists Gone Wild as Obama Remains Silent
Campaign reform groups criticize Obama's failure to speak up on convention excess.
The Influence Game in Denver: What Are They Hiding?
Ted Kennedy, Michelle Obama Speeches Ignored As Lobbyists Party On

Quote :

"Not even the emotionally charged speech by Sen. Ted Kennedy kept corporate lobbyists from carrying out their multi-million dollar campaign to wine and dine and influence Democratic lawmakers at a series of lavish parties last night in Denver."

Quote :

"Party sponsors attempted to block ABC News cameras from taking pictures of the scene."

Quote :

"'That's where money meets power, behind closed doors,' said Miller, 'the parties and events that are really just set aside for the most elite.' The millions being spent on entertaining and parties is a result of loopholes created by Congress in its own ethics reform law passed last year, the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act, Miller says. Outside one gathering last night, Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) said it was 'his duty' to attend lobbyist and corporate parties. 'You must visit, make sure the food they serve is okay, that it passes the taste test and the liquor is the right vintage. Other than that, it's one's responsibility,' Sen. Lautenberg told ABC News, with his tongue apparently in his cheek. Ethics watchdog groups say there's nothing funny about it. 'It's a very unhealthy, symbiotic relationship between elected officials and lobbyists,' Miller said."

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Conventions/story?id=5657835&page=1

. . .well, let's see if you bitch about this. Somehow, I think these incidents will get a pass.

CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN! Just vote Obama-Biden, aight?

PS: I predict a flurry of tu quoque fallacies and So whats the likes of which has never been seen.

[Edited on August 28, 2008 at 7:07 AM. Reason : ]

8/28/2008 6:38:21 AM