page 3 says somebody needs to get my name out of their mouth

10/6/2008 10:41:32 AM

Quote :

"Only in Amato's last two or so years did he lose his defensive talent and thus the effectiveness of this scheme."

So, what you are saying is, without the personnel, even a scheme that previously worked perfectly didn't work? Hmmm, interesting.

Quote :

"frankly, after the way we were completely raped on D the first three series, I would have prefered us singling up on the wideouts and bringing some heat. If they get beat, so be it, but at least we would have been taking some chances."

Their second touchdown was thrown right over Robbie Leonards head as he blitzed in. Do you realize that? Why take chances when our D was working just barely enough to at least give the O a chance to win?

Quote :

"No, I don't think that is an excuse we can use for why we made an average offense look like the dallas cowboys yesterday."

BC's O was putting up solid numbers before they came in to play us. I'd say better than average.

Quote :

"we never blitzed, 90% of time it was 4 man rush"

Oh, right, we didn't blitz because when we did, we got burned even worse when we were in our base cover 2. rofl

Quote :

"The fact that everyone on the team except for irving tackles like 12 year old school girls also points to some coaching issues."

It's ashamed that undersized and inexperienced players can't handle older, stronger, faster athletes when they are faced with them. Must be coaching.

Quote :

"TOB came out saying that they figured out what BC was doing? really, really TOB. sure as fuck couldnt tell on my end of the TV."

You mean, going from 21 points in the first quarter to 3 points total in quarters 2 and 3 isn't enough for you?

10/6/2008 3:26:22 PM

haha, this thread is full of idiots

10/7/2008 8:56:11 AM

no chance, its not enough.

570 whatever yards of total offense
leaving the middle of the field wide open 75% of the game
allowing them to accumulate over 100 yards just on 3rd down conversions
3pts off of turnovers doesn't get it done either.

all of this is pathetic no matter how you look at it.

10/7/2008 10:19:19 AM

if the offense would stay on the field the defense might be able to catch their damn breath

it's 3rd down before you know it when we have the ball

10/7/2008 10:23:46 AM

the defense could catch their breath if they didn't let BC have something like an 80% conversion rate on 3rd and 4th down

10/7/2008 10:36:26 AM

i understand this team is being held together with spit and chewing gum but the defensive "effort" saturday just wasnt there

the offense played probably some of their best football all year, so far but we need a combined effort on both sides. look, i have 0 expectations for this season so im pretty happy that we have won 2 games so far

10/7/2008 10:40:28 AM

Im pretty happy with our effort so far as well. I am disappointed that we basically gave BC the game last week though. We needed one or two defensive stops in that game and we won it. Our offense played good enough to win .

10/7/2008 10:49:14 AM

If we didn't fall badly for a fake punt that went 30 yards....we probably went to OT or even won and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

10/7/2008 11:53:48 AM

im sorry but that fake punt was beautiful...perfect time to run that play and i believe it was a game changer for BC

10/7/2008 11:59:44 AM

ha, I saw the punter act like it went over his head and was like "ah fuck, fake". Brilliant call

10/7/2008 12:02:16 PM

The offense put up 31 points. How in the hell do you blame the failings of the defense on the offense?

10/7/2008 12:06:12 PM

our offense isn't exactly good but atleast it's a little more exciting with wilson's big play ability.

we had the ball for 4 minutes in the 1st QTR (14 pts, 1 kickoff return TD).
defense on the field for most of the 1st QTR of play. (allowed 21pts, drives of 61yds, 80yds, 56yds)

we had the ball for 3 minutes in the 4th QTR (14 pts, 1 61yd TD reception)
defense on the field for most of the 4TH QTR (allowed 10pts, drives of 85yds, 70yds)

we were 3/11 on 3rd down conversions.

253 total yards.

our defense gets no rest. they are young and thin due to the injuries on the depth chart. can't blame them completely. our offense needs to work on driving the ball down field more than anything to give the defense a little rest.... especially in the 4th QTR with game on the line.

[Edited on October 7, 2008 at 12:10 PM. Reason : ]

10/7/2008 12:10:07 PM

teams too often use injuries as an excuse but in this case it is warranted; we were simply decimated by injuries

take any team and take their best two defensive players off and they are not nearly as good and you could argue that cash and irving are our two best defensive players

we are creating a bunch of turnovers which is nice and while i was disappointed with the game on saturday defensively i see the future being bright. our coaching staff knows how to coach. they know what they are doing. they don't seriously sit in the booths or on the sidelines and have no idea what is going on or what to do. they know the game. we just have to be patient and hope we get healthy.

10/7/2008 12:15:43 PM

^^Yeah our field position was GREAT the whole game. Graham, Neal, and Johnson did great on returns. We were past the 30 every time. The first long Graham return to the BC 40 and we went 3 and out....I think this is referring to the offense keeping our defense on the field so long.

10/7/2008 12:18:15 PM

If we could have just stopped them on an occasional 3rd down, we would have won the BC game. Didn't they score 4 TDs on 3rd down? If Irving had played, Chris Crane would still be in the hospital.

10/7/2008 3:33:51 PM

the point is archer is terrible, he must go

end thread

10/7/2008 3:43:45 PM

This defense makes Baby Jesus cry.

10/16/2008 10:58:04 PM

Quote :

"If we could have just stopped them on an occasional 3rd down, we would have won the ____________ game."

repeat every week from now on. I get the feeling archer won't be fired any time soon.

10/16/2008 11:08:43 PM

^doesn't deserve to be fired yet. d did not play that badly tonight. if gano doesn't make a 100 field goals, mostly long ones, they don't score that much. and none of these guys are tob/archer players and if they are they are either sophomores or true or redshirt frosh. we didn't have the players to match up with them at this point therefore i thought our scheme ideas were correct tonight.

10/16/2008 11:14:46 PM

I'll just copy and paste packpride posts

Quote :

"I think he called a good game overall. The predictability allowed me to spend more time with my family since FSU had the ball for a long time. For instance, I would watch FSU start a drive and come back about 15 minutes later and watch them finish it off. It worked out well in the "multi task around the house" effort. Then I could review the drive and watch the 3rd and 20 conversions if I was so inclined."

Also, archer has NEVER had good defenses. It's foolish to believe he will magically start developing good defenses now. This is not some situation where we have to wait a long while to see that he is doing the best he has ever done.

He doesn't have the skills to be successful at this level. He sucks. He is out of his league. You could roll dice and pick coverages randomly from Madden and do better than Archer. His calls are no better than random chance.

It's like you are taking a class where that one guy stops class progress with stupid questions, and it's obvious that the class is way above his level. Yet, no one ever says anything and continues to let one guy hurt everyone else.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 11:25 PM. Reason : .]

10/16/2008 11:17:20 PM

Quote :

" Also, archer has NEVER had good defenses. "

not true. and regardless it would be retarded to fire him now. none of the guys playing are his, we don't have that much talent which is not his fault, and i thought that our d played great earlier in the year until irving went out. they were keeping us in games while wilson was hurt and not playing well. remeber the sc game???? our d played awesome until they just got so tired b/c our o could do nothing. same with clemson. since we lost irving we haven't been the same and our secondary still has very little talent.

10/16/2008 11:26:38 PM

What is not true? When has archer had a good defense in his whole career -- even when he has had his own guys? There is no reason to believe he will be better, regardless of whether he gets the players and experience that he wants.

The reason the defense gets tired is because they are predictable, sit back and let teams get long ass drives. He gets absolutely NO credit for keeping games tight for a half. His job is to plan for a whole game. Everyone knows that defenses wear down in the second half. You plan for that and adjust as the game progresses. This kind of thinking is beyond his ability to grasp.

Archer's scheme is like playing a basketball game by just shooting 3 pointers, even when the 3 pointers aren't falling. Yeah, there might be one game where everything goes down, but it's a strategy that a priori gives you a poor chance of winning. Archer is the Herb Sendek of defense.

10/16/2008 11:40:45 PM

We need to figure out how to tackle before we worry about coverage.

10/16/2008 11:43:25 PM

archer's defense is fine if you get pressure on the QB, which when we did today... koyal george just wasen't aggressive... not mike archer's fault.

10/16/2008 11:49:02 PM

Our secondary is horrible. And please don't feed me the lack of depth line because they played horribly from the open whistle. And if I see one more fucker on defense try to shoulder tackle someone instead of wrapping them up, I might just punch myself in the face.

10/16/2008 11:54:32 PM

^ post pics of the black eyes and bruises. lol. cause it's inevitable.

10/16/2008 11:59:49 PM

I'd like to take this opportunity to call out JC Neal for totally eating shit on their first touchdown. He had a perfect opportunity to wrap up a guy on a solid hit for a 3 yard gain or so, yet he goes in with his head down and leads with his shoulder, and just bounces straight off the guy. Fucking amazing.


I don't give a flying fuck what defense you play. You're not going to stop people unless you tackle. Tackling has to start with coaching. Our secondary looks like a bunch of pussies. They play scared and they don't wrap up. Tackle with your fucking feet dudes. We stop them 5 or 6 more times on 3rd down and prevent 2 touchdowns if we just tackle. (I counted 7 missed tackles on the 2 scores combined.)

10/17/2008 12:05:47 AM

DeAndre got lucky a couple times. good thing the receiver decided to get butter fingers on one and didn't know where the ball went on the other.

10/17/2008 12:08:14 AM

Quote :

"And if I see one more fucker on defense try to shoulder tackle someone instead of wrapping them up, I might just punch myself in the face. "

lol I didnt see that before I posted




I'm tired of archer. The problem is the same shit that we were talking about with Daniel Evans...if we kept him in when Wilson went out, we weren't trying something different. We have got to start playing some man coverage to stop these quick screens.

The whole idea behind playing off like we do is to keep the play in front of you, give up SOME yardage, and make a fucking tackle, and hopefully you force a few more turnovers. Well tonight we forced 0 turnovers, made 0 tackles, and got burned by those fucking quick outs/screens to receivers covered by guys that are 15 yards off of them. If you're not keeping them in front, don't fucking play zone defense.

I will mention that I thought we blitzed a lot more....in the first half....you know....when we weren't getting our dicks ramed down our own throats.

[Edited on October 17, 2008 at 12:14 AM. Reason : ]

10/17/2008 12:13:46 AM

hes atrocious, get rid of him

10/17/2008 12:56:31 AM

get rid of archer, he's garbage, and has been in the past.

and TOB needs to grow some balls and go through some therapy to get his feelings/emotions back

10/17/2008 12:58:43 AM

i mean, causse he was so great at kentucky... nottttttt

i feel bad for the players

10/17/2008 1:07:16 AM

I'm honestly a little torn. We played pretty damn good defense in the first half. But our fucking offense couldn't string together a drive longer than 30 seconds in the second half. The defense that was busting through the line and slamming running backs to the turf was getting blown off the line and shrugged off tackles late in the 3rd quarter and the whole fourth quarter. We are too thin and have had too many injuries for our defense to be even close to fresh in the 2nd half when our offense can't keep the other team's defense off the field.

10/17/2008 6:45:13 AM

I agree about injuries and stuff. We have two true freshmen playing linebacker in a zone scheme with bad corner and safety play.


I think what I'm most disappointed in is the fact that we are actually in position to make plays a lot of the time on D and our guys just miss tackles. They don't move their feet to tackle and they're not agressive. I don't know if its fatigue or coaching, its the biggest reason we've lost these last two games.

10/17/2008 8:17:11 AM

We suck huge balls on third down. I do not understand why we seem to drop into some shitty prevent style defense on third and long. We got them to 3rd and long being aggressive at the line of scrimmage, but then on 3rd down, we rush three and give the QB an hour to throw or scramble for the 1st down.

Also Maddox is just plain over his head out there when Irving goes out of the game. He'll get better over time, but right now if Irving is not playing, we basically cannot stop the other team.

10/17/2008 8:45:26 AM

Quote :

"I do not understand why we seem to drop into some shitty prevent style defense on third and long. We got them to 3rd and long being aggressive at the line of scrimmage, but then on 3rd down, we rush three and give the QB an hour to throw or scramble for the 1st down. "

This is the crux of the 3rd down problem. It's the fucking prevent defense. You play good, aggressive D the whole game, then it's the last two minutes and you go prevent and start giving up chunks of yards like it's christmas. That is our 3rd and long defensive philosophy and that shit has got to go.

[Edited on October 17, 2008 at 9:07 AM. Reason : d]

10/17/2008 9:07:14 AM

Quote :

"We suck huge balls on third down. I do not understand why we seem to drop into some shitty prevent style defense on third and long. We got them to 3rd and long being aggressive at the line of scrimmage, but then on 3rd down, we rush three and give the QB an hour to throw or scramble for the 1st down."

That's what we did and it fucked us over. They would either run a little screen or half-back dump off and their speedy backs and WRs would have 7-8 yards to pick up some steam before the first defender came at them. By then it was too late or they would make just one juke and pick up another 10 yards.

That...or they would throw the ball 2 or 3 yards before the first down marker and the WR would just lunge forward and get the 1st down.

Prevent defense...not ftw.

10/17/2008 9:11:17 AM

if we could tackle, we would have stopped them playing that prevent D about 5 more times, prevented at least 3 scores, and probably won the game.

not saying we should keep playing the prevent, but just saying its a combination of strategy AND tackling at this point.

10/17/2008 9:12:03 AM

^the last two minutes? no, how about every long yard situation we drop back EVEN FURTHER THAN NORMAL (which is atleast 10 yards)...

they converted i dont know how many 3rd and 13s, 14s, 17s....its terrible, especially after the d-line did make a couple plays on a 1st down or 2nd down...

they had atleast 5 holding penalties which set them back to these long 2nd and 3rd downs and we just drop back even further, its atrocious

those of you who dont think its archer's fault are stupid, think he calls the right plays and our players just dont listen and play their own game? if that was the case then theyd get pulled out of the game

10/17/2008 9:15:18 AM

looked up archer's defensive numbers in his four years at kentucky

2003 - allowed 26.8 ppg, with 71 given up to arkansas in that like 8OT game so that number is slightly skewed. 4-8, 1-7

2004 - allowed 31 ppg. 2-9, 1-7

2005 - allowed 34.1 ppg. 3-8, 2-6

2006 - allowed 28.4 ppg. 8-5, 4-4

keep in mind this is kentucky who was horrible until 2006. they are typically an sec doormat along with vandy. and with only four years he again coached a lot of guys that are not his until 2006 which was one of his best defenses.

i just think all of this is firing talk is premature because it is only his second year, these aren't his players, and we have a severe lack of talent except three guys. justin freaking byers is playing at safety. he weighs 185 lbs. and is tiny. it is all we have. if we are still playing extremely soft in a couple of years when hopefully the talent will be better then i will have concerns. but at this point i really think it is our best chance to win. make the other team go on long drives to score and hope that in all those plays they will make a mistake. this is our best chance with the talent discrepancy that we are going to see just about every Saturday the rest of the year.

my biggest concern has nothing to do with his coaching but his recruiting. was fired at lsu because people worried about his recruiting a great deal as the talent seemed to dip his last 2 years there.


also, agree with more with wolfAApack talking about tackling. it was atrocious. how many fewer third and longs would we have stopped had we just wrapped up and tackled somebody?

[Edited on October 17, 2008 at 9:18 AM. Reason : .]

10/17/2008 9:16:51 AM

^^ im talking about the prevent D in general. People usually go to it in the last minutes of a game when they are just trying to not give up a big play.

We go to the damn thing every fucking 3rd down that is more than 5 yards.

10/17/2008 9:18:17 AM

Quote :

"if that was the case then theyd get pulled out of the game"

To get replaced by guys who are doing the same thing? There is a reason why Morgan was in the game rather quickly after not starting.

And I'm not saying its all the players fault. I could just seem them getting tired in the 2nd half. They actually played pretty damn good (and the play calling looked good) in the first half. They were making hard tackles, pushing the o-line back, and filling in the holes in the 1st half. After the our offense couldn't put together one decent drive in the 2nd half...they looked tired. No more pushing the o-line back, no more body slam tackles, and they definitely weren't filling holes.

I'm not saying Archer called a perfect game...but our boys were worn out in the 2nd half. Put a little bit of the blame on fatigue and our offense not being able to sustain a 2nd half drive.

10/17/2008 9:18:47 AM

Archer need the ability for a 3-4 defense to be a successful defensive coach.

10/17/2008 9:20:10 AM

we should all show up in force to Sullivans next week and grill TOB about this shitty defense and why mike archer sucks

10/17/2008 9:23:24 AM

make sure to drink a rusty nail for me

10/17/2008 9:55:46 AM

Quote :

"we have a severe lack of talent"

To be honest, we aren't exactly bringing in a banner recruiting class this year. I know TOB has always been good at developing players, but we'd better hope that Archer can develop players as well because pretty much all of the highly ranked talent in NC, SC, VA, etc is going to other schools.

Until we start to win, I cannot see us getting highly ranked recruiting classes. And don't give me that stars are for hotels shit. There is a reason why teams like Texas, LSU, Florida, Georgia, USC are always in the top 15 in recruiting classes and then in the polls. Talent eventually wins games assuming the coach is not Chuck Amato or Al Groh. See Alabama. Brought in Saban, brought in the recruits, bingo #2 in the nation.

As for Archer and the defense this year, I'll let injuries be the excuse for now because without Irving, our defense = the suck.

10/17/2008 10:50:40 AM

everyone just needs to calm down, ya hear?

10/17/2008 11:31:23 AM

^^In all fairness, we should be better on defense next year just by virtue of getting past injuries. We can start Clem Johnson and Javon Walker at safety, we can have Terrell Manning and Nate Irving both at linebacker. We really have had a devestating amount of injuries on this football team.

10/17/2008 11:33:58 AM

Quote :

"And don't give me that stars are for hotels shit. There is a reason why teams like Texas, LSU, Florida, Georgia, USC"

see, the problem with that argument is that we are never going to be as good as LSU, Florida, Texas, USC, or Georgia. For those elite echelon programs, yes, they need to bring in some stocked recruiting classes.

However, for us, a mid level program, I think it's a bit different. Yes, I'd like to bring in a bunch of 5 stars, but in reality we're going to get a few here and there, but not many. That's just how it is. But look at this years team. A lot of playmakers are the young guys, and guys that TOB recruited that we'd ideally want to redshirt are playing now. And we're redshirting more defensive backs that will be able to play next year, not to mention Glennon, Barnes, and 3 OL. We're going to bring in another solid recruiting class this year. Don't tell me that TOB can't identify talent-- TJ was a 2 star. Matt Ryan was a 3 star.

and also, Jesus Fuck, will you people just lay off TOB and the coaching staff. They are doing as much as they can. but We. Aren't. That. Good. Yet.

10/17/2008 11:39:01 AM