feliz pagina tres

11/17/2008 7:12:48 PM

Your mom's a pagina

11/17/2008 7:13:28 PM

Quote :

"god wdprice is such a douchebag"

11/17/2008 7:13:28 PM

Quote :

"so to clarify, do you think that "he shouldn't have a mortgage" as you stated in your first post in this thread?"

obviously i was saying that he is wrong under the circumstances listed... also if he doesn't have an SSN, he's gonna likely have to establish lawful presence.... and even though an ITIN is accepted, it's not accepted as proof of presence.

we could argue the details forever. but, like i said, i dont like to argue for no reason.

my point was that they were both in the wrong.

11/17/2008 7:19:49 PM

while morally you guys feel that both of them were in the wrong, LEGALLY, only one of them was...

11/17/2008 7:25:14 PM

i think you could argue that legally both of them did something wrong.

11/17/2008 7:26:48 PM

actually im pretty sure that she could have been charged with harassment or stalking for what she did. at least if it were in NC

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 7:27 PM. Reason : TRUST ME I KNOW MY STALKING AND HARASSMENT]

11/17/2008 7:26:54 PM

His legal standing and *possible* actions notwithstanding, this lady is one inconceivable bitch.

11/17/2008 7:27:32 PM

i'd think after the first time he ripped up her sign he could get her on trespassing or something

11/17/2008 7:28:12 PM

I'd think after the first time he ripped up her sign he could've murdered her and dumped the body in Tijuana.

11/17/2008 7:29:36 PM

Well it seems to me that you guys were more pissed off at the fact that she tattled on him to the various agencies... The other crap she did was immature, stupid and counterproductive, and she's an idiot for that and I'll go ahead and accept that this was illegal activity...but you guys were alluding to the other shit she did....and THAT was not illegal.

11/17/2008 7:30:32 PM

Quote :

"you guys were alluding to the other shit she did....and THAT was not illegal."

what's the "other shit"

cause contacting his employer and putting signs in his yard... totally illegal in NC

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 7:33 PM. Reason : i know this wasn't in NC but still]

11/17/2008 7:32:47 PM

Contacting the various government agencies...

11/17/2008 7:34:39 PM

nope, that's not illegal

but it sure sounds like the second part of blackmail to me

you know, the part where you don't get what you want and you let the cat out of the bag.............

11/17/2008 7:37:25 PM

well....if let's say when I have neighbors who have a bunch of illegal aliens from Iran living in their house...and they're respectful and seem to be just going about their business but they start having big meetings and it's loud as fuck and screwing up the neighborhood parking situation so I ask them to stop and they refuse...

So 2 weeks go by and I ask them again, and tell me to fuck off and I say that I'm gonna go tell someone and they say, 'well you can, but that's BLACKMAIL' and so I say, 'ah, shit...'...and a day later a huge bomb goes off at the local mall and it turns out that's what they were making at those 'meetings'... So then do I say to the authorities that I would have told them there was suspicious behavior going on but I didn't want to commit the crime of blackmail?

Blackmail it seems to me is when you do it to actually make money on it...like if I said to the guy, 'hey, gimmie 100gs or I go to the feds'...then I'm committing a crime, but if I just want my piece and quiet, then saying to him, 'if you continue to be noisy, I will alert the authorities', then I'm just being human

11/17/2008 7:56:26 PM

Quote :

""It was my last resort," Griffin said, "but once I realized my family had seven days to get out of a house that a family's not even legally supposed to own, I did go to his employer and I did let his employer know." "

That is just vindictive and a low blow. She should have paid the rent. She was just causing shit that didn't need to be stirred up

11/17/2008 8:13:27 PM

Quote :

"Jimenez, who is Mexican,"

anyone dare to look at mexicos illegal immigrant laws?

they arent "nice"

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 8:14 PM. Reason : .]

11/17/2008 8:14:15 PM

so we want to be like mexico?

i'm confused.

why do their immigration laws even matter. omg wow other countries have laws too. that is so cray cray

11/17/2008 8:17:03 PM

she should have her ovaries ripped out so she can't reproduce. preferably with something rusted.

he and his family should be given a chance to prove they belong here. the man pays taxes. most illegal aliens probably don't. everyone hates taxes, so we can all relate to the immigrant on this account.

11/17/2008 8:32:34 PM

Quote :

"He was working for a restaurant, so he was clearly paying income tax. He was also paying property tax, sales tax, and whatever other taxes they have in Roswell, GA."

How exactly do you know that he is/was paying income taxes? He was more than likely a dishwasher which more times than not are paid under the table anyways.

Crazy lady went over the top for sure, but the dude did fuck up too.

11/17/2008 8:56:04 PM

He worked as a cook at an upscale restaurant. Read the article.

11/17/2008 9:17:40 PM

missed that part, my bad PStar

11/17/2008 9:38:06 PM

Clearly not upscale enough as they obviously don't do any background checks....also, I know plenty of 'upscale' places that pay under the table. Now if I went and called the authorities on those people, it would be a dick move. NOT illegal, but definitely dick...but that's a totally different scenario and I'm actually quite appalled that you guys are spending your energy on saying things like, 'OMG THIS BITCH SHOULD HAVE HER OVARIES REMOVED' when you don't give a shit that this guy used his 2 year old to commit fraud.


I'm not even really sure if you guys actually feel this way, or are just making noise because it's no fucking wonder this country is in deep shit when you have arguing not just across party lines, not just across race lines, not just across gender lines, not across social status lines...but on an issue like this.

What's my reward for becoming a citizen the LEGAL way? There must be one right? Because I was under the impression that doing things that way insured that I wouldn't face consequences, but clearly that's not the case

11/17/2008 9:41:48 PM

11/17/2008 9:46:18 PM

Quote :

"What's my reward for becoming a citizen the LEGAL way?"

Sorry, it's all I can offer right now.

11/17/2008 9:56:34 PM

I agree that immigrants should not be here illegally, and I attribute it mostly to a horrible immigration system. However, many people bitching about it are usually acting on ideologies based on entitlement and self-righteousness. Like they somehow deserve to be in this country more, regardless of legalities.

Karma's a bitch. That's my bottom line.

11/17/2008 9:58:29 PM

Quote :

"if you get caught with weed, well that depends on the state, etc. I think you should go to jail"

not to take this thread completely off track, but why do you think someone should be in jail for having weed? does that really accomplish anything?

11/17/2008 10:03:56 PM

Is my family better than this Jimenez dude?

Yup. In many ways....ethically, morally, civilly, socially, intelligently....... and you see I CAN compare myself to him because WE TOO WERE NOT A CITIZEN OF AMERICA, WE TOO WANTED TO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and yet here we are...many years later and no one in my camp broke any laws (immigrant, ethical, moral or criminal), we never dicked someone over bad enough that they felt the need to bad mouth us to people in our neighborhood or employers, the shear fact that we knew NOT to skirt around the law proves our superior intelligence, and none of us are dishwashers in a restaurant because the only jobs we can get are ones that are lax on the whole 'employment' process.

[Edited on November 18, 2008 at 9:52 AM. Reason : +]

11/17/2008 10:13:16 PM

Quote :

"Every single one of these problems is due to our stupid immigration policies that completely ignore the reality of 12 million undocumented aliens living here. Remove the policies that make these people have to live on the fringe of society, and those problems will all magically go away."

Immigration policies that allow a sustainable amount of people to come here legally? Remove these policies and we'll have 112 million undocumented aliens faster than you can go through the Bojangles drive-thru.

Quote :

"I agree that immigrants should not be here illegally, and I attribute it mostly to a horrible immigration system. "

The only thing wrong with the immigration system is the fact that it isn't being enforced.

Illegal immigrants don't give a fuck about America. They're here to get money. You might call that the American dream, but I disagree. They don't give a fuck about the founding fathers, they don't give a fuck about the constitution, they don't give a fuck about the land and they don't give a fuck about your family; so why do you care so much about them? If you really care so much then find a way to make Mexico less of a shithole. When somebody trashes a rental house they don't just let them move into another one.

And if you want to see someone who is excited about the American dream go hang out with some of the Indians working in RTP. You better believe they appreciate it after spending 5-15 years trying to come to America legally. Surprisingly, they don't seem to like illegal immigrants either. Imagine that?

11/17/2008 10:16:14 PM

^This bitch used to just amuse me with her bullshit.

Now I feel the best thing for her would be a well-executed cunt punch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPi5tU5iFr8

11/17/2008 10:41:43 PM

Quote :

"proves our superior intelligence"

i, for one, must agree. i'm blown away by your superior intelligence here. how you manage to compare yourself on so many levels to someone you don't even know is pretty freaking amazing. i wish i was that talented.

11/17/2008 10:44:04 PM

^^are you talking about me or skack?

11/17/2008 11:12:42 PM

Did M2C break the internet again?

11/17/2008 11:14:18 PM

Quote :

"Is my family better than this Jimenez dude? Yup. In many ways....ethically, morally, civilly, socially, intelligently....... "

You're doing a piss-poor job proving all of these. DnL is clearly above you now "intelligently".

Quote :

"and you see I CAN compare myself to him because WE TOO WERE NOT A CITIZEN OF AMERICA, WE TOO WANTED TO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and yet here we are...many years later and no one in my camp broke any laws (immigrant, ethical, moral or criminal),"

You don't know if this guy broke any laws either. You haven't come close to proving this.

And the laws since YOUR family immigrated here have changed drastically, it's completely asinine and extremely intellectually dishonest for you to compare yourself to him in this way. You don't know what you might have had to do if your family was immigrating NOW to the US.

Quote :

"we never dicked someone over bad enough that they felt the need to bad mouth us to people in our neighborhood or employers, the shear fact that we knew NOT to skirt around the law proves our superior intelligence, and none of us are dishwashers in a restaurant because the only jobs we can get are ones that are lax on the whole 'employment' process"

Haha, is this what this is about? The need to feel "superior" to someone else? That's a pretty sad and disturbing case of inferiority complex you have running there. The issue of "superiority" is what caused problems in India and South Africa with their caste system and apartheid, and it's what unified the German people behind the Nazis before WWII. If you think "superiority" is how society should be shifted, then you are FAR MORE of a threat to America and our way of life than this Jiminez guy.

Edit:
And why did you feel the need to break the thread? That just belies even further your fear, or perhaps deep down realization, that you are wrong in this issue. Seriously, what is your REAL problem with these immigrants? Their skin color?

[Edited on November 18, 2008 at 12:08 AM. Reason : ]

11/18/2008 12:07:08 AM

No...I just broke the will of 2 people who had to turn to fallacies to make their 'argument'. But thanks for the kisses

And ^^^ & ^...Sure, I don't know him personally, but I DO KNOW some facts:
FACT: HE is in this country ILLEGALLY.

FACT: I am in this country LEGALLY.

So based on this, we know that I am indeed, the more ethical person as he broke the law, and I did not.

FACT: WE came to this country with nothing...and since you can't come here with LESS than nothing,
FACT: HIS BEST CASE scenario is that he too came here with nothing.

This tells us that at WORST, no one had the advantage of money as a means to get here.

FACT: HE bought a house by using his 2 year old daughters SSN in an effort to beat the system...

FACT: When my parents bought a house, they used their own SSN and credit, not mine or my sisters.

This tells us that he didn't only lie to various mortgage companies and the government but he ALSO used his kid to accomplish this. My parent's did no such thing.

FACT: He didn't pay taxes because you need a valid SSN to do this...and he didn't have one. OR he had a FAKE one which allowed his taxes to get taken...either way, he BROKE THE LAW.

FACT: Neither my parent's nor I took part in this activity.

This tells us that again...we didn't cheat the government

FACT: He attempted to sell his fraudulently purchased house to someone and when his initial lie came back to haunt him (that would the whole using his daughter's name thing) he ended up making life difficult for someone else...even if just a little.

FACT: Since we never purchased a home fraudulently, my family has never run into this problem.

FACT: It's now many years later and he is living in an apt with his home purchase in limbo with no job and in danger of finding himself in civil and/or criminal trouble. (btw, I'm gonna go ahead and guess, that since he has no job and no house that he has little money and therefore is using government funded legal representation...)

FACT: It's now many years later and my family is just fine..we all have roofs over our heads, have jobs, and aren't fighting any legal battles....but if we had to, we'd be paying for it ourselves.

FACT: We know that this women blew the whistle on him over a matter of a relatively small amount of money.

FACT: We know that he didn't think that it was worth swallowing it in order to avoid the bigger problem which he now finds himself in.

FACT: My family has not found itself in such a situation....but let's pretend that we did all the same shit this guy did, I can promise you that we wouldn't be dumb enough to fuck over someone who was a possible threat to our freedom...over a small amount of money.

This tells us that we are indeed, more intelligent than him.


You see, I don't know him, but from what I DO KNOW, and by HIS OWN admissions, I can come to these conclusions.

I do not wish this guy ill but I'm certainly not going to come to his defense when he KNOWINGLY committed crime upon crime. And WE DID NOT.

There's no way you're going to change your stance on this issue and that's what makes this country wonderful.

This country where you and I play by the rules so we get the benefits of it. That you extend those same benefits to someone who broke criminal, civil, ethical and moral laws is beyond me. If this were any other country his ass would have been deported or put in jail the minute it happened, but thanks to people like you, he's going to spend all of OUR (yours AND mine) money in tying up the legal system on any one of the many charges he is going to face.

[Edited on November 18, 2008 at 12:31 AM. Reason : & I honestly didn't mean to break the thread, it didn't for me so I didn't notice a problem.]

11/18/2008 12:11:08 AM

FACT: I'm not reading that shit by u

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

11/18/2008 12:12:38 AM

And ^^...Sure, I don't know him personally, but I DO KNOW some facts:
FACT: HE is in this country ILLEGALLY.
FACT: I am in this country LEGALLY.
So based on this, we know that I am indeed, the more ethical person as he broke the law, and I did not.[/quote]

WRONG, the way our laws are written, you DON'T know if he actually broke the law. You don't know how he came to be here illegally. And merely being here illegally is NOT A CRIME. This was covered on page 2, have you even been reading this thread? Are you here to just blindly argue your assertions, because people in this thread have been attempting to fill in the obvious gaps in your knowledge. If you are not actually reading these posts, let me know so that I don't waste any more of my time.

Quote :

"FACT: WE came to this country with nothing...and since you can't come here with LESS than nothing, FACT: HIS BEST CASE scenario is that he too came here with nothing. This tells us that at WORST, no one had the advantage of money as a means to get here. FACT: HE bought a house by using his 2 year old daughters SSN in an effort to beat the system... FACT: When my parents bought a house, they used their own SSN and credit, not mine or my sisters. This tells us that he didn't only lie to various mortgage companies and the government but he ALSO used his kid to accomplish this. My parent's did no such thing."

This was a mistake on his part, but it is not a malicious crime, and if his story is right, he did this ON THE ADVICE OF HIS REAL ESTATE AGENT.

And if the government made it easier for him to attain a legal status, he would not have had to resort to this anyway.

Quote :

"FACT: He didn't pay taxes because you need a valid SSN to do this...and he didn't have one. OR he had a FAKE one which allowed his taxes to get taken...either way, he BROKE THE LAW."

WRONG. You have a strange definition of facts here... as has ALREADY BEEN NOTED TWICE IN THIS THREAD by BOTH me and Prawn Star, you DON'T need a social security number to pay taxes, taxes are AUTOMATICALLY withheld on your W2 based on what you put on a W4, which ONLY requires a Tax ID which ANYONE can get, even illegal immigrants, who are actually ENCOURAGED by the IRS to get them, so they can pay taxes or claim and refunds. I ask you again, if you aren't going to read these posts, let me know so that I won't waste my time.

Quote :

"FACT: Neither my parent's nor I took part in this activity. This tells us that again...we didn't cheat the government "

I guarantee if I scrutinized your family's taxes, I could find instances where they tried to "cheat the government."

Quote :

" FACT: He attempted to sell his fraudulently purchased house to someone and when his initial lie came back to haunt him (that would the whole using his daughter's name thing) he ended up making life difficult for someone else...even if just a little."

WRONG again. The sale of the house was NOT fraudulent, nothing regarding the sale was remotely fraudulent. THe problem was that since the house was technically owned by his daughter, he had to essentially fully transfer the house to his own control (with a conservatorship). The problem with the sale has NOTHING to do with the illegal status and can and DOES happen to legal citizens with bad credit who attempt the same scheme. The issue with the sale seems to be the woman didn't want to have to pay for the 3 months she was living in the house, she wanted this free, because she, like you, felt she was "superior" to the illegal immigrants.

Quote :

"FACT: Since we never purchased a home fraudulently, my family has never run into this problem. FACT: It's now many years later and he is living in an apt with his home purchase in limbo with no job and in danger of finding himself in civil and/or criminal trouble."

WRONG again. There is no danger of criminal trouble, the house sale is NOT in limbo, he just doesn't feel comfortable living there because of the repercussions of people who, like you, might have some inferiority complexes.

Quote :

"You see, I don't know him, but from what I DO KNOW, and by HIS OWN admissions, I can come to these conclusions."

Here is a FACT for you, your conclusions are NOT based on fact, and instead have a basis in ignorance, which is why you are wrong. You should re-read this thread thinking about what is ACTUALLY going on, and not what your sense of feigned superiority is telling you.

Quote :

"I do not wish this guy ill but I'm certainly not going to come to his defense when he KNOWINGLY committed crime upon crime. "

Haha, "crime upon crime" if you could actually prove this, you could be a very wealthy lawyer.

Quote :

"That you extend those same benefits to someone who broke criminal, civil, ethical and moral laws is beyond me."

You are imagining he broke these laws to bolster your own xenophobia. The problem is not with this guy, it's with YOUR perception of him, based on blatantly wrong presumptions of "facts" for a purpose that's not clear to me, and I doubt is clear to you. I don't know why you feel the need to imagine your own legal, criminal, and moral violations to prove to yourself that you are "superior."

By using your same loose standards I can easily show that any number of people on this message board are VASTLY superior to you, but I have no need to do this, because it's a meaningless condition.

Quote :

"If this were any other country his ass would have been deported or put in jail the minute it happened, but thanks to people like you, he's going to spend all of OUR (yours AND mine) money in tying up the legal system on any one of the many charges he is going to face."

It's his money too. I don't mind money being spent to uphold justice.

11/18/2008 12:35:24 AM

My need to feel superior? I was responding to "However, many people bitching about it are usually acting on ideologies based on entitlement and self-righteousness. Like they somehow deserve to be in this country more, regardless of legalities."


As for the 'legal' vs 'illegal', and your accusation that I am not reading the thread, then what is this?

Quote :

"Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who: * Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or * Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or * Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact; has committed a federal crime. Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense."

and if it isn't illegal, then it seems to me that we've solved one of our countries biggest dividing issues! Fantastic!

Quote :

"I guarantee if I scrutinized your family's taxes, I could find instances where they tried to "cheat the government."

No need....a few years back we were audited.....clean as a whistle...

As for feeling superior, if anyone here has a complex, it's Jimenez because he thinks he is above the law. The laws that I ABIDE BY because I know that I am NOT SUPERIOR.

Funny you should mention South Africa....that's where we immigrated from. And back then when you left South Africa you left EVERYTHING YOU HAD because you weren't allowed to take it with you... so my parents, seeing the many problems and unfairness of the government decided that it was worth LOSING EVERYTHING THEY OWNED, just to come to a country that didn't have such a system and instead gave everyone the same opportunity to succeed...and they followed the rules. Rules are in place for a reason...

11/18/2008 12:58:51 AM

That statute was ALREADY addressed in this post: http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=548954&page=2#12307148
Are you sure you've been reading this thread?

What would you family have done if they were denied legal status btw? Or if they couldn't stay here until their legal status kicked in?

As has already been noted, immigration laws have changed since your family immigrated here, and the INS treats people from different countries differently anyway. It doesn't make sense for you to compare yourself in this way to Jiminez. You can't establish a hierarchy of superiority based on such different situations.

I don't get this blind adherence to rules that you have either. You have so far failed to show moral lapses that prove jiminez is a blight on society. He was working within a system bent against him to try and purchase a home to make a good life for his family. He wasn't running drugs or trying to screw anyone over.

Were the Sons of Liberty wrong for breaking the rules when they dumped out tea to the harbor? Was Rosa Parks wrong when she broke to rules at sat on the front of the bus? Rules aren't inherently just, and it makes absolutely no sense to base an argument purely on the existence of rules.

11/18/2008 1:13:59 AM

I always wondered why everyone was always hating on mytwocents. Then I read her posts.

11/18/2008 8:23:18 PM

Quote :

"Funny you should mention South Africa....that's where we immigrated from. And back then when you left South Africa you left EVERYTHING YOU HAD because you weren't allowed to take it with you... so my parents, seeing the many problems and unfairness of the government decided that it was worth LOSING EVERYTHING THEY OWNED, just to come to a country that didn't have such a system and instead gave everyone the same opportunity to succeed...and they followed the rules. Rules are in place for a reason..."

Did you really leave everything behind? If so how did you manage to survive once you arrived? Also didn't you and your parents have an education? If so you didn't leave that behind and that gives you an advantage over most illegals. Comparing yourself saying you're superior to illegals is unethical and immoral by your part.

11/18/2008 8:45:47 PM

FACT: I hate people who say "FACT:"

11/18/2008 8:59:27 PM

Those who are standing up for [Mexican] illegal immigrants and saying they should all be naturalized, tell me how you felt about the hundreds (perhaps 1,000s) of law-abiding, productive, hardworking Muslim (Arabs, Pakistanis) families who had over-stayed their visas (most for more than a decade) who were kicked out of the US after 9/11. They all had multiple US citizen children. A lot of them were told they could leave their children behind if they wanted to.

Also, would you support naturalization for other such families living in the US today? Arabs, Pakistanis, Indians, Iranians, etc? Or do you only support this for Mexicans?

And finally, since you think that Mexicans should be allowed to come to the US to improve their lot, what about people from other countries? What if they came over today on a valid visit visa and then overstayed? Would you support their bid to be not deported when they are found out 5 years from now?

11/18/2008 10:06:54 PM

^ are you honestly asking those questions or trying to be a douche? (this is an honest question btw)

Have you not been reading the thread?

11/18/2008 10:14:41 PM

I am honestly asking the question.

I think you wouldn't care about the nationalities of the illegal immigrants, but I have this feeling that a lot of people out there who would have no objection to all the Mexican illegals being naturalized, would have a fit if Arabs/Muslims were afforded the same benefit.

11/18/2008 10:20:55 PM

Quote :

"snitches get stiches"

11/18/2008 10:21:03 PM

^^ no i think people who hate illegal immigrants kind of hate them all the same.

i mean i get that you (the collective you, not you specifically) are against them, but they are here and we need a practical solution to the problem. and unfortunately hunting each and every one of them down and deporting them, is FAR from practical.

11/18/2008 10:27:47 PM

^^^ well, first, no one is saying "ALL" Mexicans immigrants should be naturalized (and most of the immigrants aren't Mexicans they are other types of hispanic).

Secondly, the reason the mexican immigrants get so much attention is because we have TONS of them coming here, by virtue of the fact we share a land border. I would guess (although I don't know) that close to 90% of the undocumented immigrants are hispanic of some sort, and came via land crossings of some sort (or possibly by a short boat ride). So it's not really valid to "complain" that no one cares about the other immigrants, because there just aren't that many other types of immigrants.

And on top of that, the muslim/arab/indian immigrants that come here are generally more educated and have some english speaking ability compared to their hispanic counterparts, primarily due to the fact they have to fly here legally to get here at some point, which requires $$$ to begin with, and usually some knowledge of English. Considering these facts, it's significantly less likely this type of immigrant, legal or otherwise, would draw the ire of the typical mexican-hating American, so they kind of stay "under the radar" more easily.

But, my personal standards, and I would think other rational thinkers, are that if someone is here working, and doesn't have a criminal record, and otherwise follows our laws (with the exception of the immigration-related violations), they should be given a legal status regardless of their origin. I personally would be skeptical of the particular devout muslims who treat their women like shit, but it's not easy to develop a litmus test to reject that type of person.

[Edited on November 18, 2008 at 10:30 PM. Reason : ]

11/18/2008 10:29:39 PM

You receive my "Good Human Award".

11/18/2008 10:38:55 PM

Quote :

"Is my family better than this Jimenez dude?"

Not in breeding.

11/18/2008 11:21:51 PM