I believe in logic. There is no logical reason for god to exist, therefore i believe in evolution.

As far as god goes, the whole concept of god in the christian aspect is paradoxical. Someone created me as a sinful being, tempts me my whole life and expects me to do things against the way i was created oh and i have to give 10% of all my money to the church. F that. I do what i want.

If i was god, i would appear to people when they are like 16 years old and be like "be the best person you can and in the end your actions will be judged in the end" none of the you must confess that i exist and all that other bullshit. I don't understand all the mysticism maybe it worked to fool people 5000 years ago, but with technology these days and all the technical knowledge we know none of it really makes sense.

For example: why would god build matter out of atoms? Why would he build atoms out of gluons and all that other crazy shit that goes on down there. Shit is just way too complicated these days for me to believe someone would spend time making all of it work and then design imperfect beings that would evolve over time to be the best for their environment.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

2/13/2009 1:02:54 PM

Quote :

"So, I'll go with A UNTIL SOMEONE PROVES THE EXISTENCE OF GOD."

ahahhahaha

you know, I'm the kind of guy where if Jesus himself floated down, declared he was the son of God, and started performing miracles left and right i would be all like

"... nuh-uh, I've totally seen this episode of Star Trek before..."

2/13/2009 1:07:46 PM

However, i do like in Dante when he finally sees god and all language fails him.
would be cool if that was true.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

2/13/2009 1:09:10 PM

a good piece of evidence i think of a supreme being, is that where did this whole universe begin? everything has to have a beginning right? therefore the way life works is that something is born from another. something had to have started it all.

2/13/2009 1:09:30 PM

the creation of the universe is not as hard of a question as the creation of existence itself

that's a rough one

2/13/2009 1:10:54 PM

darwinian evolution: (A)
----------------------
Willy Nilly
miska
ALkatraz
Stimwalt
stowaway
Arab13
nastoute
HockeyRoman
Flying Tiger
puppy
Walter
jataylor
evan
djeternal
Smath74
DeltaBeta
zorthage
Fareako

divine evolution: (B)
----------------------
Joie
supercalo
0EPII1
sawahash
dagreenone
icyhotpatch
jackleg
punchmonk

no evolution: (C)
----------------------
maximus

2/13/2009 1:11:25 PM

I just wish that everyone who thinks you can't have faith in God and accept evolution at the same time realized they were wrong. It's totally possible. But people who think that (especially the religious ones) lack education in both subjects.

2/13/2009 1:11:37 PM

Quote :

"you know, I'm the kind of guy where if Jesus himself floated down, declared he was the son of God, and started performing miracles left and right i would be all like "... nuh-uh, I've totally seen this episode of Star Trek before...""

maybe Roddenberry was/is god?!?

2/13/2009 1:11:43 PM

so where was god from?

Christians like to throw that around as an argument against scientific evidence, but its not any stronger than saying you just have to believe, because christianity works based completely off faith. But i'll give you that one, say god has existed for all of eternity, what logical reason would he have to create existence? I don't like thinking about this kind of stuff because the scientific argument doesn't make sense either and both boggle my mind.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

2/13/2009 1:11:48 PM

^That's a question that as a Christian I know that I may never know the answer to it. I accept the fact that I will never know everything about what exsists and their is no point in trying to know everything, but there is nothing wrong understanding what is going on around me.

2/13/2009 1:13:27 PM

okay now thats a better answer than "oh well god made the universe duh"

i subscribe to the the universe is expanding and collapsing theory of the big bang but that doesn't really explain anything either.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

2/13/2009 1:14:19 PM

I believe that God is still interacting with the world today. I don't believe in the watchmaker theory that he just wound up a clock and let it go. I don't understand why people say that evolution can't be real because that would be God wasn't perfect at the beginning. I'm not one of those people that say they accept some parts of evolution and not the other parts because if the other parts were real that would mean God isn't real.

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 1:19 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2009 1:16:19 PM

perfect?

Quote :

"Deuteronomy 20:16-18 (King James Version) 16But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: 17But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee: 18That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God."

2/13/2009 1:23:08 PM

^would you like to translate to english? KJV is a different language.




Ahhhh much better, gotta love The Message

Quote :

" 16-18 But with the towns of the people that God, your God, is giving you as an inheritance, it's different: don't leave anyone alive. Consign them to holy destruction: the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, obeying the command of God, your God. This is so there won't be any of them left to teach you to practice the abominations that they engage in with their gods and you end up sinning against God, your God. "

^by the way, I'm just playing with you, unless of course you're one of those people that think the KJV is the only version of the bible that's right.

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 1:27 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2009 1:23:58 PM

basically just rehashing the fact that the god of the Old Testament was a brutal violent god

2/13/2009 1:27:07 PM

natty

2/13/2009 1:30:27 PM

Does "Darwinian evolution" preclude the divine?

I mean, I thought you could understand evolution and all that jazz, and simultaneously believe God either started evolution by creating the first thing and letting it go OR he started it by designing the process.

Evolution and God can be two distinct, unrelated things. For starters, you have faith in God. You don't have faith in evolution because that shit's practically been proven. It just is. I dunno, it just seems to me that your feelings about one doesn't necessarily say anything about your feelings about the other.

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 1:34 PM. Reason : ?]

2/13/2009 1:33:54 PM

There is a theory that the Universe is cyclical in nature, it expands and contracts. The theory is that it expands to a critical point and then becomes unstable and collapses on itself into a super singularity where it, then again, reaches a critical minimum, becomes unstable and explodes into the universe as we know it. So, I think I agree when the question is posed, who/what created the beginning (or how was the beginning created), not who/what created the Universe.

I don't want anyone to think that I'm knocking on religion, because I don't. If you want to believe what you believe, then more power to you. I honestly wish I could have the faith to believe in something without concrete proof. The thing is I can't do it. I need evidence, which is why I agree with A to an extent. The only reason I had an inclination towards B is because A isn't fully proven in that it can't be completely explained, therefore, the only explanation is because a higher being must be responsible for all the unexplained detail work.

That being said, it takes just as much faith to believe in scientific theories that aren't fully proven yet as it does to believe in religion . The only difference is that science gives us answers everyday and can be proven. God, still cannot. Thus my justification for A.

This was probably not relevant to anything. I'm kind of blanket responding my personal stance on this for everyone who posts in this thread.

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 1:38 PM. Reason : had to edit for obvious point clarification]

2/13/2009 1:34:38 PM

^^DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!


Too many people have the mind set that science is a religion and religion is a science...

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 1:35 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2009 1:35:13 PM

yeah man, old testament god was mad as shit.
thats a pretty good way to scare people who believe in mysticism, thats why you don't hear anyone reading any of that shit anymore on sunday morning. because its completely unbelievable.

Organized religion is and has always been a way to control people.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

2/13/2009 1:35:40 PM

I think religions should encourage you to ask questions and seek answers.

2/13/2009 1:38:00 PM

^Have you thought about a seminary?

You could be a good minister.

?

2/13/2009 1:40:22 PM

It is something that has crossed my mind...but at this point I don't think I could get in, I don't have very good grades.

2/13/2009 1:42:32 PM

you couldn't be a good minister. i would question why you need 10% of my money

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

2/13/2009 1:44:33 PM

i'm torn between A and B...if you think of god as the being who set the whole thing in motion, insofar as to say that the rules and laws of the universe (evolution included) were set by him, do i belong to group A or B?

by the definitions provided in the first post, A could absolutely contain B and still be correct

if the assumption is that B means god is actively guiding evolution, i think that's silly

i guess i'm a teleologist (though how most people could not be, even in its most basic form, is beyond me)...i mostly agree with views of people like cicero, plato, aristotle, aquinas, and paley (though they're all a little bit different, the overall idea is the same)

2/13/2009 1:44:41 PM

This is probably the most successful TSB meets Chit Chat thread ever. Grats willy.

2/13/2009 1:45:10 PM

^^^And my answer would be, #1 pastors need to be able to make a living too...and they don't get paid shit (unless of course you go to one of those theater churches that put on a show for you and look at your taxes and make you pay a membership fee) and #2 if you want to have a building that isn't falling apart and good youth/children/adult programs then the members of the church should be able to give what they can afford.

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 1:47 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2009 1:47:39 PM

B

also along the lines of "involved in the original design, not necessarily actively involved"

2/13/2009 1:48:20 PM

lol i know i'm just messing with you.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

2/13/2009 1:48:25 PM

haha I know

but pastors gotta have the singles for the strip clubs too.

2/13/2009 1:49:39 PM

christianity would be so much better in a communist country

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

2/13/2009 1:50:51 PM

B

2/13/2009 1:51:03 PM

Quote :

"The only reason I had an inclination towards B is because A isn't fully proven in that it can't be completely explained, therefore, the only explanation is because a higher being must be responsible for all the unexplained detail work. "

There are so many other things that aren't 'fully proven in that it can't be completely explained' in regards to the brain, medicine, etc. Is God making drugs work for me?


If the difference between A and B is things just "happened" for A but God started B, why doesn't anyone ask where God came from, or how God started? Maybe he evolved from a lesser god?


[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 2:15 PM. Reason : WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO]

2/13/2009 2:14:54 PM

Jebusites

2/13/2009 2:19:03 PM

I am an A/B Combo. but picking btw 1 or the other it would be B.

2/13/2009 2:21:02 PM

Quote :

"A) darwinian evolution = Plants and animals adapted to their environments through random mutations and/or natural selection. B) divine evolution = God, or a "higher power", is the guiding force behind and/or designer of the process of evolution. C) no evolution = God, or a "higher power", created all life, which has always existed in its present form."

Yes, you can believe both A and B, but if you do, your choice is likely B.

Quote :

"things just "happened" for A"

Yes.

Quote :

"if you think of god as the being who set the whole thing in motion, insofar as to say that the rules and laws of the universe (evolution included) were set by him, do i belong to group A or B?"

B



darwinian evolution: (A)
----------------------
Willy Nilly
miska
ALkatraz
Stimwalt
stowaway
Arab13
nastoute
HockeyRoman
Flying Tiger
puppy
Walter
jataylor
evan
djeternal
Smath74
DeltaBeta
zorthage
Fareako

divine evolution: (B)
----------------------
Joie
supercalo
0EPII1
sawahash
dagreenone
icyhotpatch
jackleg
punchmonk
tchenku
grimx
GoldenGirl

no evolution: (C)
----------------------
maximus

2/13/2009 2:23:25 PM

B

and the soap box called

2/13/2009 2:25:58 PM

B.

2/13/2009 2:34:32 PM

ß.

2/13/2009 2:36:47 PM

A

2/13/2009 2:39:09 PM

This is a college message board so pretty much everybody is going to agree with evolution.

So this thread is basically, "God: Yes?...No?"

Where the fuck is the maybe section, and why isn't anybody else asking for one?

2/13/2009 2:41:39 PM

Run it by William Nilliam.

2/13/2009 2:44:00 PM

i suppose i'll go with B, then

Quote :

"So this thread is basically, "God: Yes?...No?""

yes, pretty much

Quote :

"Where the fuck is the maybe section, and why isn't anybody else asking for one?"

how do you have a maybe? you think there MIGHT be a supreme being behind the creation of the universe? you think the being MIGHT have bothered setting evolution into motion? there is no maybe - you either believe that:

1.) a supreme being created the universe (directly or indirectly creating the laws of the universe and therefore setting evolution into motion, directly or indirectly)
2.) the supreme being is actively involved in "evolution"
3.) there is no supreme being and we're a cosmic *poof* (in which case i would assume you're following a scientific approach and i would assume you believe that evolution is the case, rather than the idea that we all just winked into existence this very second)

i don't see how there are any other options

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 2:56 PM. Reason : grammar]

2/13/2009 2:49:24 PM

Quote :

"I'm agnostic, so... evolution: (D) ---------------------- BridgetSPK"

i don't get what you are trying to say here, are you saying A is to extreme excluding any idea of a higher power being involved? or B being too centered around the idea of God?

if that's the case then you're agnostic evolution which is A(B) (reserving the right to B if God/higher power exists)

not simply "evolution" which = A



I'm most definitely A/B. Since I have some amount of faith/belief in God I cannot fully be A, the scientist in me cannot be fully B however either.

I would fit on Theistic Evolution. God is involved in my view but the level is probably on the less interventionist aspect of involvement.



is more or less correct in terms of total spectrum.

^^^ because Agnostics are a very small minority.

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 2:50 PM. Reason : s]

2/13/2009 2:50:01 PM

The older I get the less faith I have in anything.

IT'LL HAPPEN TO YOU

2/13/2009 2:50:13 PM

It's the opposite for me. The older I get the more faith I have.

2/13/2009 2:51:20 PM

my people perish for the lack of hardees

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

2/13/2009 2:53:37 PM

^^^^
Choose the best answer. (...or wimp out, like BridgetSPK )

darwinian evolution: (A)
----------------------
Willy Nilly
miska
ALkatraz
Stimwalt
stowaway
Arab13
nastoute
HockeyRoman
Flying Tiger
puppy
Walter
jataylor
evan
djeternal
Smath74
DeltaBeta
zorthage
Fareako
Supplanter

divine evolution: (B)
----------------------
Joie
supercalo
0EPII1
sawahash
dagreenone
icyhotpatch
jackleg
punchmonk
tchenku
grimx
GoldenGirl
AndyMac
Bird
fleetwud
quagmire02

no evolution: (C)
----------------------
maximus

unsure: (D)
----------------------
BridgetSPK

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 2:54 PM. Reason : ]

2/13/2009 2:54:25 PM

2/13/2009 2:58:08 PM

D) there are better things to worry about

2/13/2009 3:00:42 PM