I know my observations are late, but I had to sleep off my anger last night and compose myself.

Ultimately I'm for giving Sidney a couple more years. But honestly, I want to hear his thoughts about last night's game and I want him to answer some tough questions from the fans. Why didn't he utilize Tracy Smith? Why is he OK with having bad players lob up threes instead of going inside where we had the clear advantage? Wasn't that the whole point of the big lineup he switched to in late January? He needs to explain himself.

3/13/2009 1:56:14 PM

Quote :

"so the updated question, what would sid have to do next year to make you ok with him being fired?"

losing record overall

3/13/2009 1:57:11 PM

seems like the fans posting here are content with being shit in the ACC.. lol, jerking his bean at midcourt..

3/13/2009 1:57:57 PM

i think many of us are not convinced that having a revolving door of coaches is going to help us compete in the acc.

and let's just say for instance that tracy had gotten a few more looks in the second half. and that one lay-up towards the end of the second half had gone in (making it a 1 pt game or something as i recall as opposed to a 5 pt game). and we beat maryland. would lowe suddenly be a better coach?

it's not like we got worse as the season progressed or that we're worse than last year. we're not. i feel a lot better about this team than i did at the end of last year. we did not spiral out of control. we lost a game to a better team (with actual upperclassman leadership) by 5 points in a game we were in most of the time.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 2:02 PM. Reason : .]

3/13/2009 1:59:29 PM

^ well we haven't been competing in the ACC for 3 years now.. I've just not seen much to think that will turn around in the future.

3/13/2009 2:01:45 PM

how many years did clemson give oliver purnell? seems until last year he was on his way into the toilet. same w/ leonard hamilton.

3/13/2009 2:01:50 PM

Quote :

"Why is he OK with having bad players lob up threes instead of going inside where we had the clear advantage?"

you seriously think he's okay with them not going inside?

THATS HIS FUCKING BREAD AND BUTTER

OF COURSE HES NOT OKAY

3/13/2009 2:02:27 PM

^ you are fucking stupid.

3/13/2009 2:04:01 PM

Quote :

"seems like the fans posting here are content with being shit in the ACC.. lol"

seriously OhBoyeee, are you really that dense? why is it so hard for you to understand. Nobody, nobody is "happy" with this season, yet you continue to make stupid statements that suggest that we are.

Please, please try to understand:

Quote :

"i think many of us are not convinced that having a revolving door of coaches is going to help us compete in the acc."

3/13/2009 2:04:55 PM

Please, please try to understand this:

We have not been competitive in the ACC since Lowe took over.

Please, please, please, please, please

3/13/2009 2:06:52 PM

Quote :

"i think many of us are not convinced that having a revolving door of coaches is going to help us compete in the acc."

How much would it hurt at this point. After you hit the bottom there's nowhere to go but up. Of course you can always stay where you're at indefinitely.

3/13/2009 2:07:04 PM

how many coaches come to a school and deliver a turnaround in the first three years and maintain it for any length of time?

the list is quite short.

3/13/2009 2:08:04 PM

What?

How is that stupid?

Sid didn't run the ball to the post all the fucking time last year?

Sid doesn't prefer to have our big men be the scorers?

on the list of "things nc state does"

right there at number one is "score inside".

(no homo)

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 2:08 PM. Reason : .]

3/13/2009 2:08:06 PM

I'm not saying that Lowe is a savior or anything, but a lot of great coaches (including K) struggled mightily early on. With that said if 2 more years pass and there is no improvement then I will be burning the stake too.

3/13/2009 2:09:09 PM

Quote :

"How much would it hurt at this point."

It could cost us ZoBrown, Howell, Wood, Harrow, and Leslie.

3/13/2009 2:09:59 PM

Ok, let's expand this out.

Say we agreed with you. Sid goes now.

Fowler agrees and shows him the door.

It's the weekend of the Final Four.

Who are we gonna be talking to to coach us next year?

3/13/2009 2:12:05 PM

3/13/2009 2:16:36 PM

Quote :

"how many coaches come to a school and deliver a turnaround in the first three years and maintain it for any length of time? the list is quite short."

i agree, i also hope sid's turnaround cant be maintained.

3/13/2009 2:18:41 PM

Lol. Make Lowe the new AD. Get Mickey Friggin' Mouse to be the bb coach.

3/13/2009 2:18:51 PM

3/13/2009 2:19:00 PM

It's all about expectations IMO. I think we've seen more than enough to tell that Lowe isn't going to be that superstar coach who brings NC State back to it's "glory years" or whatever. If you guys are perfectly happy with giving him a couple more years to build, at best, a mediocre program with a ceiling no higher than Sendek's (and probably lower) then good for you. I'd rather just cut our losses, risk further sucking (whoever we hire, he's not going to do much worse than 10th/12th/10th in the ACC), and hopefully land a guy with some actual talent.

3/13/2009 2:19:06 PM

Quote :

"It's all about expectations IMO. I think we've seen more than enough to tell that Lowe isn't going to be that superstar coach who brings NC State back to it's "glory years" or whatever. If you guys are perfectly happy with giving him a couple more years to build, at best, a mediocre program with a ceiling no higher than Sendek's (and probably lower) then good for you. I'd rather just cut our losses, risk further sucking (whoever we hire, he's not going to do much worse than 10th/12th/10th in the ACC), and hopefully land a guy with some actual talent."

That worked out well last time, huh?

Force a guy out and everyone's like "hey! its all good! we're gonna get someone good cause we got tradition! we'll get someone at least as good!"

3/13/2009 2:21:19 PM

Quote :

"After you hit the bottom there's nowhere to go but up."

maybe you haven't been around long enough, but we haven't hit the "bottom". This season could have been much, much worse.

3/13/2009 2:22:50 PM

How much worse could it get?????



HOW MUCH WORSE COULD IT GET??????????????????????????




You people can't be serious. We will lose 5 highly ranked recruits that fit our needs. We're one fucking offseason away from the first season where nobody can really talk about "Herb's" guys. And you want to run him out of town so we can lose some of the most promising recruits we've seen in years get on campus.


It could get worse though....Dave Liato has been at UVA for 6 seasons now right? They just finished 11th. Hewitt has been at Tech for what 9 seasons now? 2-14 this year.


We're a couple of breaks here or there from being a bubble team right now, but you want to fire the coach.

We lost all 3 big OOC games in the last minute or less.

You can choose to look at it like Lowe lost us those games, or that he put us in position to win those games and our players didnt execute down the stretch. I think its a little bit of both, and thats why I want to give him more time.


Why don't you see it from both sides? Why does it have to be cut and dry that Lowe sucks or Lowe is great and his players suck? Its clearly not that simple, so why are you trying to take the former side and make it true?

3/13/2009 2:24:51 PM

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 2:26 PM. Reason : should have read your full post first]

3/13/2009 2:25:46 PM

Quote :

"Why don't you see it from both sides?"

some people only see black-and-white and think in absolutes.

if sid was fired (and it ain't happening, i think you know that), we lose some really good recruits. and talking about laughing stock of the acc, try imagining how stupid we'd look if we ran Sid out now.

3/13/2009 2:28:53 PM

A dollar for every time I've heard "next year's recruits". It's a cliche for a reason.

3/13/2009 2:29:04 PM

^^agreed

^it applies now more than ever, because its Lowe's first full recruiting class at State where he targed players early, built relationships with them, and got them to sign just like every other school in the country. Every other recruit we've gotten as the result of getting guys who blew up late or Lowe pulling one out of his ass (JJ)....or as the case with the 08 class we too 2 guys who were solid players but didn't have a ton of high major offers b/c they played hard and could provide some depth.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 2:32:41 PM

Quote :

"I mean, shit, if Kentucky isn't going to crucify Gillispie yet, it blows my mind how you guys can call for Lowe's head."

Gillispie went 12-4 (SEC) in his first season at Kentucky and they are 20-12 this year and there are plenty of people in Lexington that want him gone for finishing 4th place in the SEC. We are finishing 10, 11th, and 12th. Gillispie has a proven track record. Not the same situation.

And I am like NyM410 if I see the Coach K or Dean comparisons again I am going to lose it. You guys only show the first three years. List the fourth year and let's see if Lowe can do what they did.

I've said it before, but Lowe actually gets next year from me and if we are still 6-10 and at the bottom, then the heat should be on big because next year is all his players. We are an ACC school with 2 national titles. Just because Lee Fowler is a fuckup for an AD doesn't mean we can't land a good coach.

3/13/2009 2:34:52 PM

There's absolutely no reason that all this discussion can't go in the credibility watch thread.

message_topic.aspx?topic=502804

Fowler discussion also has it's own thread.

message_topic.aspx?topic=553727

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 2:41 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 2:37:33 PM