Stats? LOL

Eli has been BY FAR the more productive NFL player.

Maybe if Rivers was good enough to win the starting job when he came in as a rookie he'd have better numbers, but he doesn't. 20 TDs and 4,000 yards is a huge huge gap. Hope Rivers can catch up!

You take your angry, losing QB and start your team...I'll take Eli.

Ernie Accorsi did it...and it seems to have worked out for him!

Don't keep wasting your time on page 3.

9/23/2009 2:19:48 PM

I must say I am enjoying this slap fight. However, I must take issue with this quote:

Quote :

"Maybe if Rivers was good enough to win the starting job when he came in as a rookie he'd have better numbers"

You do realize that Drew Brees was the QB when Rivers came in right? Eli wouldn't have had a chance in the world of starting either.....

..... back to your regularly scheduled argument

9/23/2009 2:46:31 PM

I'm a Mark Sanchez fan, I suppose. Not Philip Rivers.

But anyway, in the order of being fair:

Career Stats (not counting numbers because we all know that is no way to measure a guy since all circumstances are different).

QB Rating
Eli: 76.9
Phil: 92.5

TD/INT
Eli: 1.34
Phil: 2.09

Now the next few are advanced passing stats. Here is how they are derived below. Much more useful to see how each QB performs compared to his peers in a given year (or era for that matter).The higher, the better. < 100 is below league average. = 100 is league average. > 100 is above league average. Similar to ERA+ and OPS+ in baseball.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/about/glossary.htm#adv_pass

In these, I'll only use the last three years because I can be objective and realize that it's unfair to hold the years Eli was thrown to the wolves when Phil had the benefit of learning a system and maturing on the bench. So these are 06-08 AVERAGES.

Y/A+
Eli: 91
Phil: 112

NY/A+
Eli: 95
Phil: 112

AY/A+
Eli: 94
Phil: 114

ANY/A+
Eli: 97
Phil: 114

Cmp%+
Eli: 91
Phil: 105

TD%+
Eli: 105
Phil: 113

Int%+
Eli: 97
Phil: 107

Sack%+
Eli: 108
Phil: 107

Rating+
Eli: 96
Phil: 113

Congrats to Eli on not getting sacked as much. Otherwise, it's Philip Rivers in a massacre.

[Edited on September 23, 2009 at 4:27 PM. Reason : x]

9/23/2009 4:26:32 PM

I hate to get in a stupid argument that will go nowhere, but I have to agree/side with NyM410 and Ribs some. For starters, Eli wouldnt have beat Brees out for a starting spot either...it was an entirely different situation for Eli. Also, at least consider the stats that were posted ^. To go along with that (as stated many times in these kinds of arguments), the QB is not the only thing responsible for winning a game. If you look at 2008, the NYG had the No. 5 Defense in the league while SD had the 25th ranked team in Total Defense. Plug Eli into the chargers at QB last year or this year and he does no better if not worse than Rivers imo and all of a sudden he is your "losing QB"/lesser QB based on your (9one9)'s logic.

[Edited on September 23, 2009 at 5:37 PM. Reason : ]

9/23/2009 5:37:32 PM

Also if it were up to Rivers, they wouldn't have called that 4th down rush to Sproles last weekend

Rivers would've audibled to a QB sneak, tOSU style

9/23/2009 5:46:07 PM

I don't think you can compare QB numbers at all since every single category is affected in one way or another by the rest of the team.

All I care about 06-08 is this:
Wins
NYG: 30
SD: 33

Playoff Record
NYG: 4-2
SD: 3-3

Playoff Record vs. Patriots
NYG: 1-0
SD: 0-2

And most importantly...
Super Bowl Rings
NYG: 1
SD: 0

9/23/2009 6:54:27 PM

that stat vs the patriots is just as (more imo) bogus as the QB stats if you're saying don't mean much.

So after that, SD has more wins 06-08 and their playoff victories in 6 games is only off by 1. I'll give you the super bowl ring because obviously that does help some in the argument. But beyond the super bowl ring, those stats you listed definitely dont swing the argument back in Eli's favor in my eyes. In fact, you're telling me that Eli, with a better defense (average 6th best defense in the league the past 2 seasons while San Diego averaged 20th ranked defense) won 3 less games than Rivers and only won 1 more playoff game. Doesnt exactly prove him to be a better QB.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing that all these stats prove Rivers is hands down better or anything, I think its an argument that no one on either side can fully win. I just get irritated at everyone that says Eli Manning's ring is cruise control to being a better QB than Rivers.

9/23/2009 9:18:01 PM

^^ aren't those stats also highly reliant on the team as a whole?

9/23/2009 9:23:25 PM

All I can say is I'm laughing my ass off at how much time it must've taken this kid to compile all this bullshit that doesn't nearly account for the accomplishments Eli has achieved in his career. Eli's Super Bowl winning drive against the undefeated Patriots outshines Rivers' entire life. Just ask his mother.

And let's not forget San Diego WANTED Brees gone...Philip still couldn't beat the guy out...TWICE.

If Eli and Philip retired today Eli would be remembered forever and Rivers would be forgotten. Except in Sports Talk, of course! Every Giants quarterback for decades to come is going to be compared to Eli Manning. What the fuck has Philip Rivers REALLY done? Thrown more touchdowns per game? Won a bowl game for State? Yawn.

Sorry Pack homers, you lose this one...enough trolling from me now k I wish Rivers the best.



The big question is: If Eli retired today...would he go to the Hall of Fame?

9/23/2009 10:30:28 PM

i guess they'll probably let him inside the building when they induct his brother

9/23/2009 10:42:16 PM

I bet they would!

9/23/2009 10:43:24 PM

It took me 5 minutes all from one website that I linked to. You can root for your boy, though... I'm irrational when it comes to the Mets and Jets too... no big deal.

I don't even mind the Giants. Just not a big fan of Eli and it'll never change...

[Edited on September 23, 2009 at 11:12 PM. Reason : x]

9/23/2009 11:12:35 PM

Quote :

"I just get irritated at everyone that says Eli Manning's ring is cruise control to being a better QB than Rivers."

Quote :

"aren't those stats also highly reliant on the team as a whole?"

The point is I don't care who is a better QB. Eli is better for the Giants than Rivers would have been, I just don't see Rivers creating the same kind of team chemistry and I for one am glad they switched in that draft. I was glad Rivers did so good while at NC State, and I wish him the best, but now I could care less until they go head to head.

Quote :

"The big question is: If Eli retired today...would he go to the Hall of Fame?"

No.

Quote :

"Eli's Super Bowl winning drive against the undefeated Patriots outshines Rivers' entire life. Just ask his mother."

This is my favorite quote of the year so far.

Quote :

"i guess they'll probably let him inside the building when they induct his brother"

What I find incredibly interesting is that from the 05/06 season through 08/09, the Giants and Colts are the only two teams to be in the playoffs every single time. That says a lot, especially considering they both have played in much tougher divisions during that time span than the other frequent playoff visitors this half of the decade (Chargers, Patriots, Steelers)

9/24/2009 7:31:29 PM

what a DOMINATING effort today.

24-0, first Giants road shutout since 1983.

This says it all:

Total Plays
NYG: 76
TB: 36

Total Yards
NYG: 397
TB: 86

Time of Possession
NYG: 43:38
TB: 16:22

[Edited on September 27, 2009 at 11:50 PM. Reason : -]

9/27/2009 11:48:54 PM

great game for the G-men. was glad to see the running game was picked up and utilized big time. granted it was against the Bucs, but hey gotta start somewhere and get confidence. here's to 3-0

9/28/2009 8:28:04 AM

ROLLING.

Let's not overlook KC next week.

If anybody hears anything about McKenzie's injury post it here ASAP.

9/28/2009 2:54:25 PM

Quote :

"And let's not forget San Diego WANTED Brees gone...Philip still couldn't beat the guy out...TWICE."

is this really such a bad thing? omg he couldnt beat out THE MOST ACCURATE QB IN THE NFL

9/28/2009 2:57:15 PM

Or Doug Flutie for that matter, who started in the last game of the 2004 season over Rivers.

9/28/2009 3:06:35 PM

You have to give props to Flutie. I don't see anyone else drop-kicking field goals.

9/28/2009 3:07:43 PM

I'm just saying, I like Rivers, I hope he does well, but you can't argue with Eli's ring...he's got 1 up on Philip...Big Ben has 2 up on Philip

but not being able to beat out Brees isn't exactly the worst criticism of someone

9/28/2009 3:12:53 PM

I think if the Chargers felt that strongly about Brees there wouldn't have been the trade talk/controversy that there was. They would've simply traded down or picked someone other than a QB.

9/28/2009 3:47:46 PM

When Rivers was drafted, Brees had 2 straight years as one of the worst starting QBs in all of football. He only blew up after Rivers was drafted. If I'm not mistaken, the only reason Phil didn't start right off the bat was because he held out for some of camp. Brees is probably thankful of that!

I may be a bit rusty but didn't Kurt Warner suck so much Eli's rookie year that they threw him to the wolves and started him after 8 weeks or so?

I remember, for some reason, Eli getting BLOWN UP by an Eagles player in one of his first appearances that year... don't ask why.

[Edited on September 28, 2009 at 4:42 PM. Reason : x]

9/28/2009 4:41:36 PM

iirc, warner had a winning record when eli was thrown in (I want to say they giants were 4-2)

9/29/2009 1:30:43 AM

Quote :

"Posted by ESPN.com's Matt Mosley Giants running back Ahmad Bradshaw, who had 104 yards in Sunday's win over the Bucs, showed up on the pre-practice injury report this morning. It's listed as an ankle/foot injury, but we'll wait and see if Bradshaw practices. Here's the rest of the injury list: DL Chris Canty (calf) CB Kevin Dockery (hamstring) WR Domenik Hixon (knee) OL Adam Koets (ankle) OT Kareem McKenzie (knee) WR Hakeem Nicks (foot) CB Aaron Ross (hamstring) LB Clint Sintim (groin) DE Justin Tuck (shoulder) RB Danny Ware (elbow) Coach Tom Coughlin would start easing Ross and Dockery back into practice this week. And Nicks has told reporters that he'll be practicing today. The best news is that linebacker Chase Blackburn (ankle) and guard Rich Seubert (shoulder) didn't show up on the list."

9/30/2009 2:18:51 PM

Quote :

"Every Giants quarterback for decades to come is going to be compared to Eli Manning."

Really?? Phil Simms was better than Eli, and I don't see anybody comparing Eli to Simms. Fuck...give me Hostetler over Eli...his mustache alone puts him over the top.

Quote :

"The big question is: If Eli retired today...would he go to the Hall of Fame?"

I don't think anyone with half a brain would argue that he should be in the Hall right now. You've gotta be fucking kidding me. With that question you're making yourself a bigger Giant homer than the Pack fans ITT are making themselves State homers.

9/30/2009 2:40:46 PM

future not withstanding ... saying Eli is a HOFer right now is laughable at best, and pathetically homerish to an astounding degree at worst.

9/30/2009 2:44:41 PM

Quote :

"give me Hostetler over Eli...his mustache alone puts him over the top."

lol. i met him a few years ago, great guy, and still rocking the awesome 'stache.

9/30/2009 5:17:24 PM

4-0!

Hopefully Eli's bruised heel isn't a big deal, but if it is, thank goodness we have Oakland next week. Even David Carr should be capable of beating them.

10/4/2009 11:07:07 PM

bruised heel shouldn't be a big deal; just stay off of it for a couple days. i'm sure he will still be able to start against Oakland, which he prob will, but may come out later in the game assuming the score is 35-0 before halftime

10/5/2009 9:41:17 AM

Out

For

Season

10/5/2009 11:26:17 AM

I think he will be alright, let him play the first half and then put in Carr, Carr was not spectacular yesterday mainly because he is playing with the Giants 2nd team, and had to kill the clock with the run. Despite his past, he is still a decent QB that can do pretty well with a solid foundation. Just like Matt Cassel...

10/5/2009 11:54:55 AM

David Carr actually looked pretty solid in the preseason games. I know I shouldn't put a lot of stock into preseason defenses, but I'm not too concerned about Eli missing a few snaps.

That being said, I hope Eli gets better.


GIANTS!

10/5/2009 1:02:14 PM

Quote :

"Earlier today, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported that Eli Manning had plantar fasciitis in his foot. And on his weekly radio appearance on "The Michael Kay Show" on ESPN 1050 in New York, Manning confirmed that diagnosis. "That’s pretty much what they’ve said," Manning told Kay. "How can you deal with it? How do you feel as the game gets closer and by the week. The doctor said it’s not as serious an injury as he’s seen before where the whole foot is hurting. It’s just kind of a portion of it. The doctor didn’t really give me a time frame. The last time, (with the) shoulder, he said, ‘The last time, I said you were going to be out a month and you played the next week. There is no time frame; it’s just how fast you can heal and see how you feel these next couple of days.’"

10/6/2009 8:25:11 AM

bunch of sports guys here in the NJ/NY area say he can play this Sunday if he really wants to. there will be some pain he'll have to deal with and play through but it is manageable and can be done if he so chooses. the benefit is that with it being Oakland it's not a necessity he plays.

10/6/2009 8:42:41 AM

Yea, they mentioned its up to him, but I would have no problems putting in Carr for the game, just to give Eli another week to rest up and make sure he is 100% for NO.

10/6/2009 9:53:47 AM

Quote :

""If I feel like I can go out and play at a high level and help the team and do everything I can do, and they don't have to limit the game plan or say you can't do this or that, I'll go out there and play," Manning said. "I'm not going to do anything that will put myself in harm for making this worse down the road." "

10/8/2009 10:14:49 AM

Plantar Fascitis SUCKS.

10/8/2009 10:23:28 AM

Seems like its one of those lingering injuries that is a pain to get to go away... Lets hope he is feeling better soon, I am not so worried about him playing against Oakland, moreso that he is able to practice and be ready for New Orleans.

10/8/2009 10:48:31 AM

absolute blowout and eli didn't even have to play a full half.

5-0.

bring on the saints.

10/11/2009 9:28:25 PM

Well the preseason is finally over and the real games begin.

Here's to Eli and the GMEN

10/12/2009 1:36:39 PM

The Saints haven't gone up against a defense this good all season. I'm not too worried about this game.

This was a surprise to me: the Giants are averaging more passing yards per game than the Saints. Suck it Brees.

10/12/2009 4:21:43 PM

why do the giants unitforms look like shit. its like the shiit you buy second hand is better quality.

they just look like someone wraped them up in a blue body cast

10/12/2009 10:51:33 PM

I like their uniforms, simple and clean looking. I think the white uniforms are better tbh, with the red helmets, reminds me of the 2007 superbowl

^^Yea we will see how things go, I know we have the offensive weapons to keep up with any team, I just hope we can get some pressure on Brees, I think it would be worth it to bring a 5th guy almost every play to blitz the hell out of them. Force him to scramble and make less than ideal throws and we have the possibility of getting some turnovers.

10/13/2009 10:28:51 AM

Getting PUMPED for the Saints this weekend.

10/16/2009 2:31:46 PM

This game is immensely pissing me off

10/18/2009 3:15:29 PM

lol eli could take some notes

10/18/2009 3:30:07 PM

lookin' like BC-State, eh fellas?

10/18/2009 4:07:43 PM

Quote :

"Getting PUMPED for by the Saints this weekend."

(no homo)

10/19/2009 10:33:30 AM

Stupid Fox showing the Panthers game... though after that game maybe its better I didn't see it.

I don't think the outcome of this game is because the Saints are that good, its that the Giants just played poorly.

10/19/2009 11:00:34 AM

^agreed, plus I would like to see what would have happened if it was the Giants coming off the bye week and Brees with the injury.

10/19/2009 12:24:19 PM