It's not even a good metric for Joe Average, though.

6/6/2009 12:26:06 AM

I Have No Clue really how hitlEr would stoP speedinG. I imagine he'd get the SS to enforce it or somethinG?

6/6/2009 12:31:06 AM

Quote :

"Ben Franklin might not agree ideologically with a lot of stuff in politics today, but he would be so busy reading Wikipedia, Howthingswork.com, Google...watching internet porn...and frequenting Flying Saucer that he wouldn't care."

oh my jesus gg

6/6/2009 12:36:40 AM

Quote :

"1. People do sometimes just drive "x"-number of mph over the speed limit, because they're pretty much conditioned to do so. If we didn't have such draconian speed enforcement***, and allowed people to exercise some judgement, maybe they'd, well, exercise some judgement."

I really like your tone and I'm not trying to be argumentative for argumentative's sake...but draconian speed enforcement?? What percentage of speeding is actually punished? It's so close to zero that I wouldn't even call it 1%. The same can be said for reckless driving. If I can't see the person behind me in either of my rear-view mirrors, they're not only being a dick, they're driving recklessly.

Let me share a specific part of my commute. I drive 55 down Wade Ave West. I don't really give people a hard time for speeding there so much, it's very much like the highway on that stretch. But I get off at the 40East to head toward Cary. For some reason, people expect me to accelerate to 65+ on the onramp, even though it's a bridge, pot holes, 35mph turn, the last speed limit sign I saw was 55, the traffic ahead isn't even going 35...etc. People ride my ass on that offramp every day.

Then there's that little part of 40E I ride on to get to Chapel Hill Road. I don't even have to get out of the exit lane. But if the traffic is moving 35mph in the left two lanes, I go that speed. Why? Because impatient fuckers like to jet into that lane, pass a bunch of people on the right, then merge back into traffic. I've been run onto the shoulder several times there, so I approach it cautiously. What do I get for my caution? Tailgating, honking, and the finger. There are just so many people who drive impatiently, who constantly change lanes looking for gaps to fill, always trying to go faster than everyone else, it's insanity.

That's really why I'm for anything that will make the enforcement of speed limit laws more effective, just to stem the tide of impatience and entitlement and slow everyone down just a little.

I take driving extremely seriously because it scares the shit out of me every time I get into behind the wheel. I am way more anxious driving to the airport then actually flying on a plane.

I'll end my blog post now, just wanted you all to get some perspective on where I'm coming from. I understand where the civil liberties folk are coming from; I just think it's time to reign in the reckless driving a bit.

6/6/2009 12:54:44 AM

By "entitlement", I assume you mean people having attitudes that the rules don't apply to them, etc? I think that part of the "problem" there is that the rules are retarded.

As far as describing our traffic enforcement as "draconian", I figured that would draw a comment or two. That's what the asterisks were for--I meant to expand at the end of my post, but I forgot...

Have you ever driven in, well, any other country besides the U.S. and Canada? In every other country I've been to, EVERYONE drives in a manner that would score you a trip to jail in the U.S. The police might enforce anti-dumbassery, but they generally don't give a damn about speed, in and of itself. Often, if there's a place where they really do no-kidding want you to slow down and honor the speed limit, they enforce it, but it's not by prowling around trying to ambush motorists. They sit there very conspicuously--and people slow down until they're out of that zone, then speed back up.


In the States, yes, everybody speeds, and only a small % of the time get ticketed for it (although I'm sure still more than in other countries)...but if you continually speed, you will get tickets for it. The reason I say it's draconian isn't related to how often you get away with it relative to how often you do it...it's because of the puritanical attitude we have to driving and how little you have to do to score yourself a ticket. I mean, you can do things that are completely inconsequential, that no cop in, say, most european countries would give half a damn about, but that you will get a ticket for in America.

6/6/2009 1:31:47 AM

There are several problems with the speed limit as it stands now:

1 - There are a lot of shitty drivers out there. The problem is not that people drive too fast, it's that people don't know how to drive period. It's ridiculously easy to get and keep a driver's license in this country.

2 - The speed limits stay the same, even as technology makes cars safer and safer to drive at higher speeds and safer and safer in the rare even of an accident.

3 - Speed limits stopped being about safety and started being a source of revenue long, long ago. I'm sure we all know of that one town near us that generates an obscene amount of its revenue from speeding tickets.

4 - Speed limits are an unnecessary additional law. Reckless driving pretty much covers it. It's entirely possible to drive safely at 100 and also possible to be reckless and stupid at 35. Putting up a sign does nothing to change this.

On a personal note, I just got out of a speeding ticket the other day. 83 in a 65, on the interstate with virtually no one else on the road (late night, between Garner and Raleigh). I wasn't endangering anyone else, wasn't endangering myself, and was being more fuel efficient than if I were going 25. So why was I issued a ticket vs. a warning? Revenue generation is the only real reason. Sadly, this is the rationale behind many of our laws, and in fact the majority of our traffic laws and regulations.

6/6/2009 3:12:46 AM

How do you expect all of the shitty drivers to judge when driving 100 mph is safe or when 35 mph is unsafe?

6/6/2009 8:21:12 AM

Quote :

"Have you ever driven in, well, any other country besides the U.S. and Canada? In every other country I've been to, EVERYONE drives in a manner that would score you a trip to jail in the U.S. The police might enforce anti-dumbassery, but they generally don't give a damn about speed, in and of itself."

We would not be the first country installing speed cameras, Great Britain already has them from coast to coast.

That said, I suspect Hitler would not have supported speed cameras. He was German, afterall, and he was a subscriber to German social espectations of driving, namely autobauns without speed limits at all, much less speed enforcement. What he wanted was to thought police people that didn't think like him, such as executing those that believe speed cameras are a good idea.

6/6/2009 11:53:24 AM

Quote :

"Yes we all know you're a fucking race-car allstar, but the majority of people who speed aren't. See: every fucking day on a major highway."

Don't worry the gov't works hard everyday to make u feel Super Safe. Don't forget to buckle up or Uncle Sam will hand u a $50
fine for not ensuring your own safety!

Quote :

"U.S. and Canada? In every other country I've been to, EVERYONE drives in a manner that would score you a trip to jail in the U.S."

Truth in this statement

Quote :

"Revenue generation is the only real reason. Sadly, this is the rationale behind many of our laws, and in fact the majority of our traffic laws and regulations."

It is the highway premium use tax.

Really speeding tickets would not be such a big deal if the state was not in bed with the auto insurance companies. A $125
fine for speeding 11 over no big deal. Fucking bullshit though that your insurance premiums increase partially due to the state
mandated insurance surcharge even if you were not driving "reckless" when pulled. At 76 in a 65 you are very well still a safer driver
than some country bumpkin driving their old chevy thats about to fall apart on the road who goes 60 in the passing lane who represents
a much more real liability to the insurance company. Yet b.c u were exceeding an arbitrary speed limit it gives the insurance companies an
excuse to milk u for more money.

Quote :

"Great Britain already has them from coast to coast"

LOL i could drive "coast to coast" in Britain in less time than it would take me to drive coast to mountains in this state.

6/6/2009 1:49:31 PM

Quote :

" Fucking bullshit though that your insurance premiums increase partially due to the state mandated insurance surcharge even if you were not driving "reckless" when pulled."

From what you describe, it sounds like we have set up a reasonable voluntary price differentiation market. By the state mandating some of us pay higher premiums, the insurance companies (assuming competition) will be willing to have lower base-rates for insurance. As such, those that get caught speeding pay high rates, while everyone else pays lower rates. If it works out that the poor are substantially less likely to get speeding tickets, then on average the more you earn the more you will pay for insurance while the poor pay less for insurance than they otherwise would have, allowing more poor to afford and therefore pay for insurance, etc.

It is unclear how big this effect would be, or even if it is a good outcome.

6/6/2009 3:55:12 PM

Is that the way you calculated based on some cool graphs you saw in Econ205 u free market idealist turd; though i do not think it is an ideal free market situation when the state passes on mandated surcharges and lobbyists for the insurance industry collude with law market for favorable legislation.

6/6/2009 4:10:03 PM

Pricing theory is usually a graduate level course. Beyond that, I don't understand the point of your post.

6/7/2009 1:04:17 AM

u are a CPE major though are u also a grad level econ major?

6/7/2009 3:55:59 AM

The two fields are oddly related, in my opinion.

6/7/2009 4:05:21 AM

so how does computer engineering give you grad level insight into economics?

So my ECE degree must give me expertise in Genetics.

[Edited on June 7, 2009 at 11:27 AM. Reason : m]

6/7/2009 11:27:07 AM

I do not believe ECE and Genetics are that related, so it would have been hard for you to take graduate level courses in genetics to compare to the graduate level economics courses that I have taken. That said, graduate school does require you to take classes outside your major, you could have opted for genetics. That you did not was your choice.

6/7/2009 1:02:05 PM

Hitler would stop speeding by shooting your in the face.

6/7/2009 1:12:18 PM

Quote :

"graduate level economics courses that I have taken"

thats what i was asking. should have been more specific. I was not sure if you had actually taken grad econ classes or just saying through your other studies you could figure it out on your own. I just saw that you were a CPE.

6/7/2009 5:20:31 PM

Quote :

"Yet b.c u were exceeding an arbitrary speed limit it gives the insurance companies an excuse to milk u for more money."

Such a nefarious scheme by the insurance company that could easily be foiled by you driving 2 MPH slower!!!!! See that? Even though I'd suggest going the speed limit, you could avoid all these draconian measures by decreasing your speed by 2.63%.

6/8/2009 7:35:40 AM

Except when Officer hardass decides to pull you for going 68 in a 65 on US 264 as what happened to my friend. My buddy was coming back from Greenville and saw a
cop in the right lane. So of course he is not going to be driving 85mph. The trooper was moving slowly so my buddy gradually passed him going 68 mph
in daylight under fair conditions only to be shocked to see the trooper put on his highway patrol hat and pull him for speeding.

Supposedly when my buddy asks him why he was stopped the trooper's response was "Not sure whereabout you grew up college boy but
in these parts you should know better than to pass a cop on the highway."

I guess what this means though is if officer hardass is driving 59 in a 65 while munching on his jelly donuts than traffic should be
obediently queued up behind johnny law else they best be expecting a ticket.

Luckily I am certain this was dropped in court.

On the other hand my mom was making a U-turn one day in Charlotte; but saw a cop coming down the other side of the road. A conservative
driver she decided she had plenty and reasonable time to complete the U-turn in a safe manner. She turns with the cop still a couple seconds outside
the intersection and starts driving only to be pulled over with the cop hounding her "for unsafely performing a u-turn recklessly." Guess
this butch chick cop had to fill her quota or was agitated Bertha would not scissor with her to the officer wanted to vent some anger by pulling civilians.

6/8/2009 9:04:08 AM

LOL, you're complaining that someone got pulled for passing a cop? And if it was tossed out in court, how did this allow the insurance company to fulfill their nefarious schemes?

Regarding your second anecdote, what does that have to do with speeding? What you're citing are examples of zealous traffic cops but importantly there is an oversight system (the court) which you also show worked in your first example.

My point is that it seems like a stupid plan to milk money out of the populace by taxing them for speeding. The populace could easily just not speed and then oh shit, no more money coming in! Maybe the point of the ticket and the insurance hike is...wait for it...to dissuade you from speeding in the first place!!!!

6/8/2009 9:25:12 AM

Quote :

"I take driving extremely seriously because it scares the shit out of me every time I get into behind the wheel. I am way more anxious driving to the airport then actually flying on a plane."

Sounds like you're not a very good driver if you're that worried about driving doing nothing special. I'm not trying to be a dick, but when someone says they worry about driving around in normal traffic what other conclusion can I come to?!


I drove back from Wilmington last night (Southport actually). Got on I-40 and set the cruise to 83mph (in a 70mph zone most of the duration). Stayed in the left lane except to pass. Was that wreckless or irresponible in your eyes? I was driving a fairly new car that is designed to top 150mph, and there was little or no traffic. In fact, the only car that passed me was a BMW 6 Series (I think he was cruising around 95mph). I was passing someone else when he came up behind me so I sped up to about 90 or so to make way for him. Oh the horrors.

[Edited on June 8, 2009 at 2:44 PM. Reason : k]

6/8/2009 2:40:56 PM

Why would being anxious and driving defensively make me a bad driver? If you were anxious about flying (like a lot of people are) are you a bad flyer?

I'm anxious because I have perspective and understand that I'm way more likely to get killed in a car accident than a plane crash and I see day in and day out the way that shitheads drive with very little regard for theirs or my safety. I have been injured in a wreck involving stupid and impatient shitheads when I was sitting still at an intersection. I must have sucked driving hard when I had my foot on the brake sitting stationary.

Regarding your anecdote about late night cruising. Wreckless or irresponsible? Given the little information you've given me, I'd say no. More dangerous than had you gone the speed limit? Almost certainly. You see, you say "there was little or no traffic" but I honestly don't trust anyone to make that assessment while they're driving. You don't have control of everyone else on the road. You can't see them come out from around a corner, or pull into the lane from your blind spot or behind another car. You don't see the deer/falling rock/box from the back of the truck 2 lanes away/etc before they get in your way.

This is why I am not against a law that will make enforcement of speed limits more effective. If it reduces the average speed just a little it will be safer overall. (also, less bottle-necking traffic and shorter commute times)

Keep in mind that I am against this type of system if there is no oversight.

[Edited on June 8, 2009 at 3:03 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 8, 2009 at 3:04 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2009 3:03:32 PM

^I apologize for the comment about being a bad driver, I mis-read your other statement.

Quote :

"Regarding your anecdote about late night cruising. Wreckless or irresponsible? Given the little information you've given me, I'd say no. More dangerous than had you gone the speed limit? Almost certainly. You see, you say "there was little or no traffic" but I honestly don't trust anyone to make that assessment while they're driving. You don't have control of everyone else on the road. You can't see them come out from around a corner, or pull into the lane from your blind spot or behind another car. You don't see the deer/falling rock/box from the back of the truck 2 lanes away/etc before they get in your way."

There are no corners with no visibility on that section of highway. As far as unknowns, I accept that when I chose to speed. Hell, at one point I did see two deer on the side of the highway. Did I slow down? No, b/c I accep the risk as do most people that speed. Cars pulling into my blind spots? If I'm aware of all the cars around me how would a car slip into my blind spot unknowningly. Additionally, since I was driving faster than 99% of the cars out there, no cars were coming into my blind spots from behind. Also, I stayed in the left lane almost the whole time, so if somebody did come up behind me (and for some reason I didn't notice their headlights coming up) they would be on my left, where I can check the blind spot merely by looking left.(Since I have a convertible I actually have huge blind spots when the top's up).

And I'd argue that going 83 was safer than going 70. I would have fallen asleep at that lower speed. I'm more attentive and awake at higher speeds (at least in my car).

6/8/2009 3:18:11 PM

It would take a lot to convince me that any faster speed was safer than any slower speed. Do you the difference of your car's stopping distance between 83 and 70? How much control you'd lose in a full brake situation, how far you can adjust the steering before you go in a slide?

Not to mention less time to react, less time to analyze down the road, etc.

Whether the increased risk is acceptable in a given situation is not a judgment call I am comfortable with you or anyone else making (including myself). Ideally everyone should follow all of the rules of the road, including the speed limit. This would make predicting what people are doing easier and the slower speed would make it easier to react to what they're doing. I think I've said this in another thread: driving predictably is the reason I go the speed limit.

Lower insurance and not dealing with speeding tickets is a perk.

6/8/2009 3:30:05 PM

I'd imagine the difference between stopping from 80 instead of 70 mph to be around 50 ft. (I have access to that info, but not around here)

Why should I waste my time obeying a speed limit that is artificially slow? Especially when there were maybe 1-2 cars per mile on the road. I could have cruised at 100 easy, but don't like going to jail.

6/8/2009 4:48:09 PM

Quote :

"Not to mention less time to react, less time to analyze down the road, etc."

Lets assume a dear runs into the road 150ft in front of him. At 83mph it takes 1.23s to cover that distance. Let's assume he was only going 70mph, he gains a whopping .23s reaction time.

That is a pretty razor thin margin to try and determine if the result of that would be collision or no collision.

Along a similar theme as this:

Quote :

"And I'd argue that going 83 was safer than going 70. I would have fallen asleep at that lower speed. I'm more attentive and awake at higher speeds (at least in my car)."

I'm a TON more alert when I am speeding than when I go the speed limit, mainly for cops, but I'm generally doing a lot more scanning of the road and being aware of who is around me while I'm driving.

Also, has anyone pointed out the study that found the large majority of drivers will drive at a speed they are comfortable with? I drive a Jeep Grand and anything over 85 in it starts to feel a bit twitchy for driving at a sustained speed like that. When I had my S4, it felt solid as a rock at 100 and in light traffic like Teg pointed out, I would drive at this speed from time to time. When I approached clumps of cars or cars that looked like they might do something stupid like switch lanes for no reason I pulled it back down until I was past.

6/8/2009 5:02:06 PM

I think Hitler would stop speed by implementing a smart mass transit system.

6/8/2009 5:07:21 PM

I don't think Hitler would care.

Lock thread.

6/8/2009 5:20:45 PM

If this happens in NC i would slow down. But what bothers me is that the camera system assumes that eveyone is breaking the law. In America, eveyone is innocent untill proven guilty. And ONLY in traffic concerns, the information is gathered with no probable cuase to do so, other than assuming you are breaking the law.

break down.

someone is murdered, detectives decide a crime was commited and the investigation begins

someone is speeding, in the case of cameras, it assumes you are breaking the law (becuase every car is clocked) then whammy you get a ticket with no probalble cuase.

Now if you pass a cop, he can visualy see you are speeding before he even clocks you, or at least selects which cars to clock thus giving the intent that not everyone is breaking the law.

Cameras = suck

6/8/2009 5:45:02 PM

Quote :

"LOL, you're complaining that someone got pulled for passing a cop? And if it was tossed out in court, how did this allow the insurance company to fulfill their nefarious schemes? "

He's complaining because it's fucked up. The cop didn't pull him for speeding--he pulled him for a perceived personal slight. Probably part of that hypersensitive segment of the cop population who became cops because they got picked on one too many times in middle school.

I've had the same thing happen a couple of times. I was quite stand-offish and smartass to one of them, because he gave me some line about how I had the nerve to look right at him--(AN OFFICER OF THE LAW, NO LESS, whom I clearly should be seeking the opportunity to fellate, not personally disrespect by rocketing past at 5-mph over the speed limit). Obviously, he gave me no ticket and just went along his butthurt way.

The other time was a Pullen Park cop. Looked like the kid from MAD magazine...he pulled me over, and I was polite for about the first 10 seconds of conversation, after which he start his speech (which I'm sure he has well-rehearsed) about how he may be a Pullen Park cop and wear a different uniform, but he's still RPD and has to be respected as such. Once he started acting like Barney Fife, I started treating him like Barney Fife. He managed to find that my registration sticker was a month or two out of date (the new one had been sent to my home address, not my college address, so I was unaware). He gave me a ticket for that, which of course disappeared immediately as a result of me applying my new sticker to the license plate.

I'm generally polite to cops. I think that traffic law enforcement is, for the most part, gayer than a pink fanny pack full of cock, but it isn't their fault the system is absurd. I just pay the ticket or a lawyer, depending on the situation, and go about my business, driving how I see fit. However, I have no patience for a public servant talking down to me or acting like Barney Fife or Farva...and if I know they don't have anything on me, I'll push their buttons--because the whole reason they're acting like that to begin with is because they're hypersensitive, unconfident, and unable to cope with any perceived slight/disrespect...but I don't really do that so much because they're enforcing [ridiculous] traffic laws so much as because they're acting like overflowing douchebags.

Quote :

"My point is that it seems like a stupid plan to milk money out of the populace by taxing them for speeding. The populace could easily just not speed and then oh shit, no more money coming in!"

lottery tickets
"sin taxes" on tobacco and alcohol
etc...

Quote :

"If you were anxious about flying (like a lot of people are) are you a bad flyer? "

Umm, as an experienced aviator myself, I'd argue that you'll probably never make much of a pilot, which is what's analagous in this example (not riding as a passenger).

Quote :

"You can't see them come out from around a corner, or pull into the lane from your blind spot or behind another car. You don't see the deer/falling rock/box from the back of the truck 2 lanes away/etc before they get in your way. "

Dude...there aren't any corners on NC interstates. If you're a good driver, you have enough 360-degree SA to not get surprised by cars in your blind spot (you should've been keeping track of them for hundreds of yards before they ever got there). He already said there was light traffic, so there--for the most part--weren't other cars to see around or have debris fall off of. There isn't any falling fucking rock anywhere between Wilmington and Raleigh.

The deer? Well, if you're that damned worried about that, then why aren't you going the posted minimum speed? You're (according to your argument) accepting more risk than is necessary by going the "maximum" speed limit. Why are we wrong (or "less right") for accepting more risk (however minimal, even inconsequential) by speeding? The only thing you're left with is that the limit is the law, and the whole point of what we're saying is that the posted limit is stupid and arbitrary, and that is therefore how seriously we take it.

Your argument is like trying to convince people that they should never jaywalk, because by God, jaywalking is illegal. The other 99.9% of the population feels quite capable of looking both ways before crossing the street, just like they learned in kindergarten. More risky? Sure. Illegal? Yep.

Quote :

"How much control you'd lose in a full brake situation, how far you can adjust the steering before you go in a slide? "

you'd lose no control at all under braking

skidding tendancies are not affected by speed (at least not by the difference in 70 and 80 mph. If we're talking about the difference between 20 mph and 120 mph, then generally yes, slightly).

Quote :

"Ideally everyone should follow all of the rules of the road, including the speed limit."

I agree. This would require the rules of the road being sensible, though.

Quote :

"driving predictably is the reason I go the speed limit. "

I can think of some reasons not to speed, but this isn't one of them. When 99 cars out of 100 are speeding, YOU are the one being unpredictable.

6/8/2009 5:49:09 PM

Quote :

"I'm anxious because I have perspective and understand that I'm way more likely to "

Well aren't u Mr. Enlightened with your holier than thou attitude.

Quote :

"More dangerous than had you gone the speed limit? "

In the name of safety Pat you should have reduced speed to 55. Given the laws of physics Kinetic Energy= 1/2m*V^2 clearly the law
is trying to get you killed! By slowing down 15 under the speed limit you greatly increase your chance of surviving a deer popping
out of nowhere or your wheel falling off.

Quote :

"I'm a TON more alert when I am speeding than when I go the speed limit, mainly for cops"

Ditto

Quote :

"How much control you'd lose in a full brake situation,"

probably not much thanks to ABS and my cars stability nanny

6/8/2009 6:21:41 PM

Quote :

"I can think of some reasons not to speed, but this isn't one of them. When 99 cars out of 100 are speeding, YOU are the one being unpredictable."

So what speed is everyone else going? Oh, that's right, they don't have any real way of communicating this to me and it's obvious from this board and from the way most people drive, people will drive whatever the fuck speed they want, regardless of the speed that other people drive.

You see my car going the speed limit in the far right lane. You're saying that would be more difficult to react to and less predictable how I'm going to drive in the next few seconds than the way people drive in every other lane? How likely is the car going the speed limit in the right lane to change lanes? How likely are the cars zipping around in the fast lanes to change lanes? Be honest. You can't possibly think the way I've described myself as driving as unpredictable. Just because I'm not driving fast and not tailing the guy in front of me...I stay in the same lane the entire time and move at a reasonable speed.

Quote :

"In the name of safety Pat you should have reduced speed to 55. Given the laws of physics Kinetic Energy= 1/2m*V^2 clearly the law is trying to get you killed! By slowing down 15 under the speed limit you greatly increase your chance of surviving a deer popping out of nowhere or your wheel falling off."

HUR, I'm not saying that the speed limit is perfect or at all times the best speed to go. I'm saying I don't trust any of your asses to determine what the safest speed is at a given time so follow the one fucking speed posted at regular intervals so you don't have to. While you're at it, follow all the other traffic laws so I can have some idea what your'e going to do in the next few seconds when I'm near you. That's all.

[Edited on June 8, 2009 at 7:58 PM. Reason : Hur's comment.]

6/8/2009 7:55:20 PM

nvm

[Edited on June 8, 2009 at 8:21 PM. Reason : lol]

6/8/2009 8:16:58 PM

Quote :

"How likely is the car going the speed limit in the right lane to change lanes? How likely are the cars zipping around in the fast lanes to change lanes?"

Actually I am more likely to change lanes if i'm in the right since i'll be passing people that are travelling slower than me.
In the left lane chances are I can be douche if i really want to and stay in this lane even if a car is wanting to go faster than
myself. At the speed I usually go on I40; the entire trip I could probably camp out in the left lane and only have to move over a few
times to be respectful to faster drivers. I try though to obey the rules of the road and drive in the right lane except when passing (rather one or
a whole column of vehicles if I see another car close that I will ahve to pass within a prudent distance). So essentially
I pass more from staying the right lane.

Quote :

"I'm not saying that the speed limit is perfect or at all times the best speed to go"

I'll lauge on your next road trip when a pig or chicken carrying truck enters the highway in front of you and cruises at
exactly the speed limit.

Do you break your vow of speed limit obedience or live with the annoyance of smelling pig/chicken shit for the next 70 miles till the
truck gets off.

6/8/2009 8:33:42 PM

Let's see. If it's a road trip then the speed limit is probably 70 or 75. If you actually read my posts, you'll know my first rule is to follow no closer than 3 seconds in favorable conditions independent of the speed limit.

At 75 mph, this is 330 feet. Honestly, if the smell is that bad at that distance, I'll decrease my speed until I'm far enough away from the truck and then speed back up to the speed limit. I'll be at a constant distance away because he's going the speed limit. If he goes slower, then I'll pass him when it's safe to do so. (still going the speed limit)

Quote :

"Actually I am more likely to change lanes if i'm in the right since i'll be passing people"

YOU are more likely because YOU are going faster than the speed limit in the right lane. During my morning commute I only ever change lanes to get into the right lane from the on ramp and then to leave the right lane to get off of 440. How often do you change lanes in the morning? That's my point of predictability. If an observer were to watch us drive for a minute, which of us would be easier to predict in the next 15 seconds?

6/9/2009 8:47:23 AM

I don't need to know that a car's going the speed limit to be "predictable". If said car is going to interact with me in any way I'll look at him and judge his speed in comparison to mine.

Your whole argument about people zipping around each other and being unpredictable isn't being caused by speeding. Its by people not yielding right of way and getting (the fuck) out of the left lane when they're not passing someone (or passing someone quickly enough). If people always passed on the left it would remove "unpredictability" from most people's driving behaviors. Unfortunately they don't, and this goes back to the whole "people aren't trained to drive worth a shit".

Hypothetical question for you disco_stu: What would you do if you were on a two lane hwy road, where the speed limit is 55mph; if you were stuck behind a tractor (or slow truck) going 45 mph would you just stay behind him and deal with it, even if you were stuck behind him for hours and hours? B/c if you won't break the speed limit while passing that truck you'll never get around him (given average passing zones [dashed lines] and average flow of traffic). You could lose a lot of time.

In that situation the easily solution (if you want to get around him and not waste your time) is to pass him. And the safest way to pass someone on a two lane road is to make the pass in as little time as possible, which means doing it quickly, i.e. speeding.

6/9/2009 10:24:44 AM

TKE, generally speaking I do sometimes exceed the speed limit. It would be silly of me to constantly be checking my speed. So I'm not saying I never go over. It's obviously easier to maintain highway speed rather than lower speeds.

That being said, if he's going a full 10 miles under the speed limit, I'd be surprised if I didn't have time to pass him going 10 miles faster than him. Maybe 12 miles faster since especially if I'm trying to pass someone I'm not going to be staring down at my speedometer.

However, if the opposing traffic is such that I cannot pass him without deliberately speeding then passing him is never a safe option. If that's the case, I'd follow 3 seconds, probably more since their likely to kick up crap into my windshield.


You may find this hard to believe but I put getting to my destination safely above getting there quickly. I'm not saying these two are mutually exclusive, but when it comes to a decision, I'll always slow down. I'm sure you're one of those people that pass on the shoulder when there's a car trying to make a left on a two lane road. I'm not.

Quote :

"Your whole argument about people zipping around each other and being unpredictable isn't being caused by speeding."

Oh, but it is. Aside from getting on or preparing to get off of the highway, the only reason that you'd ever change a lane is because you're going faster than the person in front of you and you don't want to slow down. Have you never ever passed anyone on the right when they weren't going fast enough for you in the left lane?

Actually another reason you'd change lanes is to get the fuck out of the way of someone behind you going faster than you, in a perfect world.

[Edited on June 9, 2009 at 11:12 AM. Reason : another reason]

6/9/2009 11:10:40 AM

Quote :

"That being said, if he's going a full 10 miles under the speed limit, I'd be surprised if I didn't have time to pass him going 10 miles faster than him. Maybe 12 miles faster since especially if I'm trying to pass someone I'm not going to be staring down at my speedometer. However, if the opposing traffic is such that I cannot pass him without deliberately speeding then passing him is never a safe option. If that's the case, I'd follow 3 seconds, probably more since their likely to kick up crap into my windshield. "

This has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Hopefully the next time you are forced to travel on a 2-lane highway you end up behind a chicken truck going 55mph.

Saying that its 'safer' to pass while maintaining no more than 10 over may be counter intuitive but true. If you are worried about the damage done to you during a head on collision going +20 over than 9 over you really should be passing anyway.

6/9/2009 12:14:19 PM

Quote :

"the only reason that you'd ever change a lane is because you're going faster than the person in front of you and you don't want to slow down. "

I passed 2-3 cars on I-40 going to Wilmington on Saturday that were going below the 70mph speed limit. They were clogging the left lane so I did, in fact, pass them on the right. I don't enjoy passing on the right thus I always give the person the opportunity to get over. Unfortunately a lot of them are retarded and don't move.

Will I pass someone on a two lane road on the shoulder if the person in front of me is making a left turn? That depends. I usually will if there's plenty of room and only if the road is paved. Of course I would slow down to a reasonable pace (20mph or so, depends on the road). Would I stay behind the car and wait like an idiot? No, all that does is cause traffic jams. For instance, people do that shit all the time on Lake Wheeler road, waiting behind ppl turning left onto Carolina Pines. The other week I noticed that 3 of the 5 cars waiting on the road were also turning left. So I passed them all on the (paved) shoulder. Why wouldn't I do something to prevent a more efficient use of the road?

6/9/2009 12:38:34 PM

Because you have to make a judgment call. You have to know if there is someone on the other side of the road also trying to turn left that you can't see...you have to know if there is a parking lot that people may be pulling out right in front of the car trying to turn left.

I was hit by a car that decided they'd go around traffic in a lane that wasn't a lane. At the same time the "courteous" (I call them this because they caused the accident by playing traffic cop from their seat) person sitting in traffic waved an opposing person left across the street. The person turning left was destroyed by the person going through a non-lane and then that car slammed into me, waiting to turn onto the road.

That's fucking why you don't just go around. You can't see on the other side of the car you're passing, where impatient people like yourself may be doing stupid shit to try to get home/to work sooner.

Oh, here's a good example why being patient and not passing stopped cars isn't "retarded":

Quote :

"On June 13, 2001, Gayheart struck and fatally injured nine-year-old Jorge Cruz, Jr., as he jaywalked across a Los Angeles-area street. According to the police report, the child was walking home from school and ran across the street approximately 160 feet from a crosswalk. The vehicles in front of Gayheart stopped to permit Cruz to cross. Unwilling to wait, Gayheart maneuvered her vehicle around the other cars, pulling into a two-way left-turn lane to pass them and struck the boy with her vehicle."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Gayheart

Quote :

"This has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard."

Wow. Just wow. Defensive driving is the dumbest thing you've ever heard of.

Quote :

"Saying that its 'safer' to pass while maintaining no more than 10 over may be counter intuitive but true. If you are worried about the damage done to you during a head on collision going +20 over than 9 over you really should be passing anyway."

Saying it's safer to pass than to not is fucking retarded. Passing is a calculated risk. Hell all driving is a calculated risk. I prefer to mitigate that risk by driving defensively.

[Edited on June 9, 2009 at 1:15 PM. Reason : .]

6/9/2009 1:08:30 PM

Quote :

" That's fucking why you don't just go around. You can't see on the other side of the car you're passing, where impatient people like yourself may be doing stupid shit to try to get home/to work sooner. Oh, here's a good example why being patient and not passing stopped cars isn't "retarded"

OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN
you sound like my nagging old man with his tales of cops appearing out of the mist to give u a ticket, the random deer emerging from a hole
in the ground, or the poor 5 yr old that teleports onto the curbside just in time to jaywalk in front of you.

TKE-Teg was talking about Lake Wheeler road which is by the time it goes down to two lanes nothing more than a country road exiting
the raleigh area that has fairly light traffic most of the day. He is not talking of using the should of Capital Blvd at 5pm or
plowing around traffic in fucking L.A.

I love how people always have a "think of the children" analogy for any activity that disagree with and are trying to curtail from society.

6/9/2009 2:04:05 PM

^^lol, come on man! Quit with this "think of the children bullshit". Do you think I just barrel through traffic and over sidewalks to get around cars? What the hell do kids have to do with anything? Do you think I just fly through openings when I CAN'T SEE WHAT'S ON THE OTHER SIDE? Just stop with the bullshit, good Lord man.

If I'm gonna pass by someone stopped making a left turn, I won't go fast. Its a tight opening so caution needs to be used. Additionally, the intersection will be in FULL VIEW. So how am I gonna T-Bone somone being waved out? I'm sorry you were in an accident but please spare us the fantastical scenarios.

What kind of driver do you think I am, where I'm just gonna shoot through openings in traffic without being able to fully see everything going on around me. Find someone else to throw your weak arguments at.

6/9/2009 2:17:43 PM

disco_stu

I consider myself a pretty cautious driver and I rarely speed... but holy shit, you're getting kind of ridiculous up in here

6/9/2009 2:23:12 PM

Think of the children? I gave you an example where I and others were injured because someone was an impatient fuck. It's not think of the children. It's think of the people you can't see on the other side of the stopped car.

When you're passing someone on the shoulder, you have clear view of someone turning left from the opposing lane? This is the exact reason why I was hurt and my car totaled while entirely stationary at a stop light. Or are you looking in the opposing lane, but are somehow able to magically see the cars turning onto the road from the right in front of the stopped car?

You call the situations fantastical but one happened to me and the other is widely documented. I see the way people drive day in and day out. These are but a fraction of the total number of crashes that happen because people are impatient pricks.

What kind of fucking backwards world are we in where following the rules is "stupid", "retarded", "think of the children bullshit"? Enjoy your speeding tickets and insurance premiums.

6/9/2009 2:25:38 PM

Can we please make it legal to run cyclists off the road?

[Edited on June 9, 2009 at 2:31 PM. Reason : *]

6/9/2009 2:31:29 PM

this is obviously the answer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph-qv4gYAE8

6/9/2009 4:00:59 PM

Your problem is you think the only way to be a safe driver is to be a slow driver who's defensive and nothing else. But that's not the only way. Everyone I know considers me to be a great and safe driver and my almost 14 years of driving without an accident backs me up (that includes 3 years of driving in New York City). So have fun wasting an extra year or two of your life (cumulatively) driving in the right lane (which us speeders do appreciate).

There's more than one way to be safe.

BTW, have you ever tried skydiving? Its freaking amazing, you should give it a shot sometime if you haven't

6/9/2009 4:59:45 PM

Quote :

"When you're passing someone on the shoulder, you have clear view of someone turning left from the opposing lane? This is the exact reason why I was hurt and my car totaled while entirely stationary at a stop light. Or are you looking in the opposing lane, but are somehow able to magically see the cars turning onto the road from the right in front of the stopped car?"

disco_stu would probably have a stroke due to the mind blowing shock if he drove in ANY other country besides America.

Go drive in paris disco_stu and come back to tell us what you learned.

6/9/2009 5:56:41 PM

Quote :

"At the speed I usually go on I40; the entire trip I could probably camp out in the left lane and only have to move over a few times to be respectful to faster drivers."

You would be wrong. Stay the fuck out of the left lane unless you are in the act of passing someone.

Quote :

"I gave you an example where I and others were injured because someone was an impatient fuck"

No, it was a result of having piss-poor situational awareness...being oblivious to her surroundings.

Quote :

"disco_stu would probably have a stroke due to the mind blowing shock if he drove in ANY other country besides America. "

Absolutely. I think I've been to 8 other countries now...Canada is the only one where I've seen them drive anything at all like they do in America. Mexico? Italy? Portugal? You would seriously be arrested and thrown in jail if you drove in America the way that pretty much EVERYONE drives there.

[Edited on June 9, 2009 at 6:56 PM. Reason : at least from what i've seen]

6/9/2009 6:56:21 PM