what misstatement? That GEITNER helped pressure banks in to taking money they didn't want, and then OBAMA wouldn't let the banks pay the money back until after much bitching and squirming?

8/17/2009 8:06:32 PM

That isn't what you said in your previous post. You were talking about the second half of TARP, not the first half, that was initiated under the previous administration.

What is this "bitching and squirming" you're talking about? The banks that were found well capitalized by the not stressful stress test were allowed to pay it back, those that weren't can't.

No bitching. No squirming. You have no argument.

8/17/2009 8:25:40 PM

so, in other words, banks weren't always allowed to pay the money back if they wanted to do so...

8/17/2009 8:46:45 PM

How about you name some of the banks and we can talk about their situation if you want.

8/17/2009 9:18:29 PM

8/19/2009 10:38:56 AM

^ Hey, I love This Old House.

8/19/2009 11:43:51 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMryl34YwE0&feature=player_embedded

8/21/2009 12:59:15 PM

^ LOL!

8/21/2009 1:26:35 PM

Leading Republican Demands That White House Fire 'Green Collar' Adviser
Updated 3:40 p.m

Quote :

"White House press secretary Robert Gibbs offered few signs of support at his daily briefing Friday for embattled White House adviser Van Jones, saying only, 'He continues to work for the administration.' [LOL! ] Meanwhile, the chairman of the House Republican Conference, Rep. Mike Pence (Ind.), called on Jones to quit or be fired, saying, 'His extremist views and coarse rhetoric have no place in this administration or the public debate.' Jones, author of 'The Green Collar Economy' and, since March, the special adviser for green jobs at the White House Council on Environmental Quality (CEQ), has faced withering criticism from conservatives for weeks over his activist background. Fox News host Glenn Beck has been a leading voice in the criticism. (Notably, Beck's advertisers are facing boycott calls from a group Jones helped found.) The blog Gateway Pundit reported Thursday that Jones signed in 2004 a petition from 911Truth.org. The petition questioned whether Bush administration officials 'may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.' On Thursday, Jones apologized for signing the petition. 'In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration -- some of which were made years ago. If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize. As for the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever,' he said in a statement issued by the CEQ. It was his second apology of the week. On Wednesday, Jones apologized for labeling Republicans with a vulgarism in a February speech, saying that his comments were 'clearly inappropriate.' Pence cited 'recent revelations concerning the associations and statements of the president's green jobs czar' in calling for Jones's ouster. Gibbs was asked about Jones at Friday's press briefing, and answered, 'He continues to work in the administration, and I'll refer you to the statement that CEQ put out last night about this.' Questioned further, the White House spokesman added, 'I think, if you refer to the statement, he apologizes.' Pressed again about how the administration can 'tolerate somebody who subscribes to a ... insane conspiracy theory as a senior adviser,' Gibbs said, 'It's not something that the president agrees with, and again I'd point you to the statement from CEQ.' On Friday, ABC News unearthed a Web posting of a January 2002 prospectus for 'A New, Biweekly, Tabloid Newspaper Opposing the "War on Terrorism",' which listed Jones as part of the organizing committee. The prospectus, which laid out plans for fundraising from foundations, said the paper would 'track the development of the war at home and abroad, spotlighting the dire consequences of Bush's program for human beings and the earth' and act as 'an entryway for new people into the peace and justice movement.' The video of Jones insulting Republicans was published on YouTube by the group DefendGlenn.com. That group is fighting a boycott of the Fox News host by activist group ColorofChange.org, which Jones helped found in 2005. 'He is now at the highest levels of power, and is targeting Glenn Beck for exposing his true agenda,' the group said on YouTube in posting the video online."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/09/04/gibbs_offers_little_support_fo.html

Quote :

"'And Barack Obama is not an asshole,' ... 'So, now, I will say this: I can be an asshole, and some of us who are not Barack Hussein Obama, are going to have to start getting a little bit uppity.'"

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/5749

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt66eWnjoTo



[Edited on September 4, 2009 at 3:59 PM. Reason : .]

9/4/2009 3:58:45 PM

The next big mile stone will be the first president since world war II to not get compared to hitler for reasons that have no logical connection to hitler.

9/4/2009 4:17:33 PM

^ Um. . .yeah. Meanwhile, back at the point. . . .

9/4/2009 4:21:37 PM

since when have you ever had a point?

9/4/2009 5:01:33 PM

Leading Republican Demands That White House Fire 'Green Collar' Adviser
Updated 3:40 p.m

Quote :

"White House press secretary Robert Gibbs offered few signs of support at his daily briefing Friday for embattled White House adviser Van Jones, saying only, 'He continues to work for the administration.' [LOL! ] Meanwhile, the chairman of the House Republican Conference, Rep. Mike Pence (Ind.), called on Jones to quit or be fired, saying, 'His extremist views and coarse rhetoric have no place in this administration or the public debate.' Jones, author of 'The Green Collar Economy' and, since March, the special adviser for green jobs at the White House Council on Environmental Quality (CEQ), has faced withering criticism from conservatives for weeks over his activist background. Fox News host Glenn Beck has been a leading voice in the criticism. (Notably, Beck's advertisers are facing boycott calls from a group Jones helped found.) The blog Gateway Pundit reported Thursday that Jones signed in 2004 a petition from 911Truth.org. The petition questioned whether Bush administration officials 'may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.' On Thursday, Jones apologized for signing the petition. 'In recent days some in the news media have reported on past statements I made before I joined the administration -- some of which were made years ago. If I have offended anyone with statements I made in the past, I apologize. As for the petition that was circulated today, I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever,' he said in a statement issued by the CEQ. It was his second apology of the week. On Wednesday, Jones apologized for labeling Republicans with a vulgarism in a February speech, saying that his comments were 'clearly inappropriate.' Pence cited 'recent revelations concerning the associations and statements of the president's green jobs czar' in calling for Jones's ouster. Gibbs was asked about Jones at Friday's press briefing, and answered, 'He continues to work in the administration, and I'll refer you to the statement that CEQ put out last night about this.' Questioned further, the White House spokesman added, 'I think, if you refer to the statement, he apologizes.' Pressed again about how the administration can 'tolerate somebody who subscribes to a ... insane conspiracy theory as a senior adviser,' Gibbs said, 'It's not something that the president agrees with, and again I'd point you to the statement from CEQ.' On Friday, ABC News unearthed a Web posting of a January 2002 prospectus for 'A New, Biweekly, Tabloid Newspaper Opposing the "War on Terrorism",' which listed Jones as part of the organizing committee. The prospectus, which laid out plans for fundraising from foundations, said the paper would 'track the development of the war at home and abroad, spotlighting the dire consequences of Bush's program for human beings and the earth' and act as 'an entryway for new people into the peace and justice movement.' The video of Jones insulting Republicans was published on YouTube by the group DefendGlenn.com. That group is fighting a boycott of the Fox News host by activist group ColorofChange.org, which Jones helped found in 2005. 'He is now at the highest levels of power, and is targeting Glenn Beck for exposing his true agenda,' the group said on YouTube in posting the video online."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/09/04/gibbs_offers_little_support_fo.html

Quote :

"'And Barack Obama is not an asshole,' ... 'So, now, I will say this: I can be an asshole, and some of us who are not Barack Hussein Obama, are going to have to start getting a little bit uppity.'"

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/5749

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt66eWnjoTo

9/4/2009 11:43:57 PM

White House Adviser Van Jones Resigns Amid Controversy Over Past Activism
Updated 12:53 a.m.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/09/06/van_jones_resigns.html

Looks like I "had a point"--or a pwnt--after all.

9/6/2009 5:40:30 AM

crazy beck was all over this guy. I guess that is where we need to look for facts against dems these days, crazy beck and the national enquirer.


Seriously, Im glad this idiot is out of there.

9/6/2009 9:56:55 AM

Quote :

"Quote :"Most CEOs have about seven to 10 people reporting to them,' he said, adding that Obama has perhaps 100 people reporting to him." So... the stupidity of this statement is self evident to everyone here, right?"

Wow, Boone, I think I agree with you on something...yeah...that's a pretty stupid statement

most CEOs only need 10 ppl reporting to them because, by the time they become CEOs, the have a clue about how to run their business (that is, not into the ground)

9/6/2009 3:11:44 PM

Olbermann Launches A War Against Glenn Beck In Honor Of Van Jones
Sep. 8, 2009

Quote :

"Van Jones's resignation has the left wringing their hands, infuriated that Glenn Beck and few righties managed to get one of their own booted out of office. So, what's the best way to strike back? By dredging up dirt and slinging mud. At least that's the opinon of Keith Olbermann, who told his followers to 'Find everything you can about Glenn Beck, Stu Burguiere, and Roger Ailes.'"

http://tinyurl.com/kl5lx4

Sweet Jesus.

9/8/2009 12:54:19 PM

It's not really difficult to find dirt on Glenn Beck. Just watch his show.

9/8/2009 12:57:03 PM

^ And? When last I checked, Beck didn't hold public office--though it is a congressionally unvetted office concerning the position at issue.

9/8/2009 1:01:38 PM

What difference does that make? Beck is a public figure because he made himself into one. He's just as legitimate a target as anyone in government. We're way beyond the vetting thing.

9/10/2009 9:46:32 AM

Epic fail ... itt ...

I'm Flummoxed. The first I heard about this (non)issue was a couple of days ago, at a coffee shop. The owner was worried about the impending communist takeover of the government - with all of the "czars" as proof (despite the fact it's only fox news et. al. that calls them "czars" - for the communist implications effect).

Taken by itself there is no traction beyond the surface (propaganda) level. But, taken with the "death panel" and "I will not have the president indoctrinate my school children" scandals I can only conclude that the right wing has nothing better to offer than to throw mud on the walls and see if anything sticks.

9/10/2009 10:38:29 AM

what they're doing is trying to stir up enough irrational fear and hatred, that one of their more unstable batshit loonies starts hearing enough voices in their head to make an assassination attempt.

9/10/2009 11:04:30 AM

the term "czar" does not refer to communism. communists overthrew the Czar of Russia, but it doesn't matter what these people are called. The thing here is that Obama has circumvented the separation of powers and checks and balances required by the constitution by appointing a wide range of people with broad authority that do not answer to Congress and are not confirmed by anyone other than him. It's a blatant power grab that should not be overlooked.

9/10/2009 11:43:50 AM

[Edited on September 10, 2009 at 11:45 AM. Reason : ...]

9/10/2009 11:44:47 AM

Quote :

"despite the fact it's only fox news et. al. that calls them "czars" - for the communist implications effect)."

You...are an idiot. See ^^ above.

9/10/2009 11:53:29 AM

Quote :

"The thing here is that Obama has circumvented the separation of powers and checks and balances required by the constitution by appointing a wide range of people with broad authority that do not answer to Congress and are not confirmed by anyone other than him."

See, this is what I'm talking about. Presidental staff have never been confirmed by congress (although calling them "czars" might change that ). And I haven't been able to find anybody that will explain all of this "broad authority" that they have. Please enlighten me. Let me know how these guys are anything but whitehouse staff, colored with "red" paint.

9/10/2009 12:02:33 PM

Quote :

" You...are an idiot. See ^^ above."

no, its true. it does have a communist implication, only because the average south carolinian doesn't KNOW OR CARE about the difference between a Russian Czar and a Soviet Premiere.

the average retard american couldnt begin to describe the most basic facts of the russian revolution much less what the political power structure was like there prior to 1917.

9/10/2009 12:32:51 PM

^you got me!



US Education system FTL

9/10/2009 12:44:05 PM

Yeah, Van Jones was just fucking great. But now he's fucking gone.

Moving on. . .to Cass Sunstein:

The Rights of Animals: A Very Short Primer

Quote :

"[R]epresentatives of animals should be able to bring private suits to ensure that anticruelty and related laws are actually enforced."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11065802/The-Rights-of-Animals-A-Very-Short-Primer

Updated: September 7, 2009
Organizations fight Obama nominee
Sunstein has said animals should be allowed to sue and hunting should be banned

Quote :

"Fifteen hunting and conservation organizations including the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance and the National Wild Turkey Federation have denounced President Obama's nomination of an avowed anti-hunter to a high-level administration position."

Quote :

"Organizations signing the letter included Conservation Force, Dallas Safari Club, Fur Takers of America, Houston Safari Club, Masters of Foxhounds Association of North America, Mule Deer Foundation, National Shooting Sports Foundation, National Trappers' Association, National Wild Turkey Federation, Pope and Young Club, Shikar Safari Club, Texas Wildlife Association, U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance, Whitetails Unlimited, Inc. and the Wild Sheep Foundation. Organizations are using their Web sites and social media to publicize the nomination and effort to block it. The NWTF has a huge photo of Sunstein and headline on its rotating front page, and the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance has a static "Block the Czar" banner with his photo at the top of its site."

Quote :

"Of the 39 organizations in the partnership, 14 joined the USSA. It was a rare showing of solidarity from some organizations, such as the NWTF, that typically do not often speak out publicly on political matters."

Quote :

"Another angle Lawson noted is Sunstein's mention as a possible Supreme Court nominee should current Justice John Paul Stevens retire after the 2010-11 term. Stevens, who is 89, has hired just one law clerk for the Supreme Court term that begins in October 2010. Justices typically hire four or five clerks, or more, at least a year prior to the next term. Speculation began about whether he would retire after the term ends in 2011 and who might be among those tapped to replace him."

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=4451898

Sweet Jesus--has it been four years yet?

9/10/2009 2:02:40 PM

This person seems far too extreme in her position. I wonder if we could use her appointment to extrapolate where the administration is eventually going to go when it comes to gun control. This is an obvious slap in the face to the nation's outdoor sportsmen.

9/10/2009 2:12:35 PM

So, basically, the NWTF were all like, WTF?

amirite?


yeah.... i'ma go head and put this nominee in my "Sea Kittens" file:

http://www.peta.org/sea_kittens/

9/10/2009 2:47:37 PM

I can not let this thread die. If nothing else it's an example of the current Republican, "Exaggerate everything and throw it all on the wall to see what sticks" mentality - hoping the public will remember only that something stuck for a while, but forgetting exatly how stupid it was.

bcsawyer:

Quote :

"The thing here is that Obama has circumvented the separation of powers and checks and balances required by the constitution by appointing a wide range of people with broad authority that do not answer to Congress and are not confirmed by anyone other than him. It's a blatant power grab that should not be overlooked."

Bobo:

Quote :

"Presidental staff have never been confirmed by congress (although calling them "czars" might change that). And I haven't been able to find anybody that will explain all of this "broad authority" that they have. Please enlighten me. Let me know how these guys are anything but whitehouse staff, colored with "red" paint."

[Edited on September 15, 2009 at 8:13 AM. Reason : *~<]Bo]

9/15/2009 8:12:20 AM

From that noted right-winger[/sarcasm] Senator Russ Feingold:

Russ Feingold: Czars have too much power
10/6/09

Quote :

"Senator Russ Feingold has become one of the most outspoken Democratic critics of President Obama's appointment of policy czars, warning on Tuesday that these unconfirmed advisors are acquiring too much power. Feingold, who chairs the Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, chaired a hearing Tuesday on czars, arguing that more work needs to be done in examining the legality of executive branch advisors who escape Senate confirmation. 'I think the public wants to know why there are people called czars,' Feingold said."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/27987.html

White House snubs Sen. Feingold
10/06/09

Quote :

"'The White House decided not to accept my invitation to send a witness to this hearing to explain its position on the constitutional issues we will address today,' Feingold said at a hearing of his Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution. 'That's unfortunate. It's also a bit ironic, since one of the concerns that has been raised about these officials is that they will thwart congressional oversight of the executive branch.'"

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/61953-white-house-snubs-sen-feingold

The Obama administration is so confident in its position about "czars" that it couldn't even send a representative to be questioned by a liberal Senate Democrat. GG!

10/8/2009 12:06:27 AM

Quote :

"'I think the public wants to know why there are people called czars,' Feingold said.""

maybe because it's easier to say something like "National Director in Charge of ____ Policy", which is their official title, so the media and people in general just say "czar" to try to get the point across?

10/8/2009 12:13:41 AM

Somehow I suspect you're missing Feingold's rhetorical point.

10/8/2009 12:22:01 AM

yes, well the problem is Feingold's "rhetorical point" is based on a false premise, and is therefore invalid. They are not called "czars" officially, except for by people like Feingold and the media.

Now, if he asked "the public wants to know why all these unelected officials are advising the President on specific topics of which they President may not be an expert in himself", then.... the answer is evident in the question.

10/8/2009 12:56:22 AM

^ Wow. The fact that you took issue with one quotation and let the fact that the Obama administration didn't even send a rep to a congressional hearing--about congressional oversight!--speaks volumes.

Did you happen to catch this part from Feingold?

Quote :

"'The White House decided not to accept my invitation to send a witness to this hearing to explain its position on the constitutional issues we will address today,' Feingold said at a hearing of his Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution. 'That's unfortunate. It's also a bit ironic, since one of the concerns that has been raised about these officials is that they will thwart congressional oversight of the executive branch.'"

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/61953-white-house-snubs-sen-feingold

LOL! In any event, despite what some here and elsewhere choose to believe, it's not just Glenn Beck and Company raising the "czar" issue.

10/8/2009 1:30:41 AM

Quote :

"They are not called "czars" officially, except for by people like Feingold and the media."

They're called "czars" in the informal parlance because they also wield a great deal of policy influence without having the accountability of being directly elected. Not that Obama is the first to appoint such positions - we've had a drug "czar" for decades, etc.

Again, somehow in your misguided insistence for complete literalism you seem to have missed the whole point of this discussion.

10/8/2009 1:41:36 AM

So the commitee makes a request to the white house that they know will likely be denied. (Why would the white house bother sending someone to a congressional subcommittee?) It's about congressional oversight, so they can make snarky little comments about the white house evading the issue.

The white house did, however, release a letter explaining its position, some of which is presented in that article.

I await their conclusion on the constitutionality of czars now that they've gotten the partisan bickering out of the way.

10/8/2009 2:26:27 AM

You're aware that Russ Feingold is a famously civil libertarian Democrat, right? The Senator with the honorable distinction of being the only Senator to vote against the USA PATRIOT Act?

Naturally, it must be partisan sniping on his part.

10/8/2009 2:34:37 AM

Yeah, he's nominally a democrat. Kinda like Arlen Spector is a democrat, who is also on the subcommitee. Hell, I'm a registered republican, but I've been left-leaning for the last 5 years.

10/8/2009 2:47:21 AM

Exactly what makes him "nominally" a Democrat? I mean, aside from being less reluctant to sell civil liberties and unchecked executive power up the river when politically expedient, which I suppose are defining features of Congressional Democrats.

10/8/2009 2:49:20 AM

Fienman is known as kind of a "maverick" in the party, to my knowledge. A republican on the subcommitee also made some remarks which I'm referring to.

Anyway, I'd like to know if they're actually going to accomplish anything, or if this is just going to be talk-radio fodder.

10/8/2009 3:26:02 AM

^ Who the fuck is "Fienman"? The senator being discussed here, Feingold, is not "nominally a democrat"--that you suggest this shows that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

In any event, my point stands: It's not just Glenn Beck and Company questioning Obama's "czars." I realize that some of you want to dismiss any related criticism as right-wing kooks or some such--but it just ain't so.

10/8/2009 4:12:22 PM

10/8/2009 4:46:34 PM

just stop calling them czars....

10/8/2009 5:04:02 PM

^^^Horray, you found somebody that isn't a right-wing kook who is questioning czars. You must feel so vindicated now.


[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 5:38 PM. Reason : .]

10/8/2009 5:25:41 PM

IT ALL MAKES SENSE

DON'T YOU FOOLS SEE?

OBAMA IS A FUCKING ZOMBIE

10/8/2009 5:32:37 PM

Can we just stop. I thought this thread had finally died, as is should have. There is just nothing there (other than hopes of something being there). Even Feingold admits that there is nothing there except, "The public wants to know".

Quote :

""I think the public wants to know why there are people called czars," Feingold said. Feingold acknowledged that many of the officials being referred to commonly as "czars"—including some who are actually confirmed by the Senate — are not really a threat to the government's checks-and-balances, but he is concerned about the influence these advisors have within the administration. "

Until someone can tell me what these guys are doing to usurp anyone's authority, I'll just write it off as more redbaiting ....

10/8/2009 7:18:57 PM

Quote :

"^^^ Who the fuck is 'Fienman'?"

^ If you don't like this thread, don't post here, BoZo. And you're wrong--as usual.

White House snubs Sen. Feingold

Quote :

"'The White House decided not to accept my invitation to send a witness to this hearing to explain its position on the constitutional issues we will address today,' Feingold said at a hearing of his Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution. 'That's unfortunate. It's also a bit ironic, since one of the concerns that has been raised about these officials is that they will thwart congressional oversight of the executive branch.'"

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/61953-white-house-snubs-sen-feingold

Sen. Byrd questions Obama's use of policy 'czars'

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/02/25/25greenwire-byrd-questions-obamas-use-of-policy-czars-9865.html

10/8/2009 8:52:59 PM