Plus McCain isn't a muslim atheist kenyan negro.

9/8/2009 10:46:50 AM

For all the people calling the republicans crazy for opposing this, remember the dems actually held fuckign hearings after HW Bush spoke to kids.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/When-Bush-spoke-to-students-Democrats-investigated-held-hearings-57694347.html

9/8/2009 10:54:32 AM

watched this on cspan today

9/8/2009 10:55:04 AM

for page 3 since no one reads the last post

TULIPlovr

Quote :

"I tutor a middle-school girl most evenings during the week, and it is downright scary to see the liberal messiah-worship drummed into her day in and day out through various assignments. But they walk the rhetorical line just fine enough to escape charges of open political indoctrination. But it's real."

No its not real, and essentially you’re delusional if you think it is a liberal indoctrination that is happening. I acknowledge that schools do promote admiration for the president, but this is done during every administration. Schools, in general, promote nationalism often under the guise of patriotism and the political party in office is of no consequence of this endeavor.

Quote :

" I haven't seen one problem, despite ample opportunity, describing how you may need to maximize profit given certain cost and revenue functions"

I’m calling bullshit on this because the majority of our questions in school were just like this. I also tutor a 9th grade child (for free as part of an charity thing for my synagogue) and his questions are just like the ones above that you say you haven’t seen. I’ve never seen any of the type you’ve described. Perhaps your situation is more incidental than conspiratorial.

If you really think there is some thinly veiled liberal conspiracy brainwashing kids then maybe you should take off your tin foil hat and walk out of your basement for a moment to see the world as it actually is.

hooksaw

There you go with your ubiquitous hyperbolic imagery. Sharp and drastic imagery can be useful in making a point through extracting radical emotion out of being already predisposed to a train of thought, but only well performed structured rhetoric can actually reach people to change their point of view. What has Obama done to make you obey more than any other president?

Furthermore the article you posted from the Washington Post is incredibly loaded and even more incorrect. Read what is written in the article. The writer states they “that the supporting activities will be”. The author(s) didn’t even read the supporting activities and composed the article on sheer assumption, hardly an indication of truth or accuracy.


1337 b4k4

Quote :

" Perhaps, but every politician's pandering has the potential to impact a certain subset of society, and we don't say these people aren't "just another politician". Unfortunately, the subset your referring to has bigger problems than whether the president is black or white."

I agree with you in part. The president is a politician and should be seen as much, but the president is a politician with greater reach and influence due to the position he holds, and the respect and admiration associated with that position. On that same note, the subset (black kids, that wasn’t hard to say was it?) often has an innate distrust, whether justified or unjustified, of white people, especially those in authority, and hearing this message from a black man would have a much better chance of reaching them.

Quote :

" Nothing except spend more money in his first 6 months, on extremely unpopular things, than Bush spent in the entire Iraq war. I'd say that's pretty big."

Now that is entirely disingenuous, and you know it. The Iraq war will cost us (over time) much more than the aggregate of policies implemented by Obama alone. As far as unpopular, the majority of policies implemented were policies on which he campaigned. People voted for him based on these policies, and as such I would hardly label them unpopular.

Quote :

" assure you if McCain had been elected, we would have heard a whole lot more about his birth"

Bullshit and you know it. The Obama wasn’t born here nonsense had steam to it far before he was elected president, while the McCain notion was largely dismissed by the opposing party. The likelihood of that rumor picking up steam following a McCain election would have been nil.

9/8/2009 10:57:41 AM

Quote :

"For all the people calling the republicans crazy for opposing this, remember the dems actually held fuckign hearings after HW Bush spoke to kids. "

That's right, key word here being after.

As in, after it turned out to be an attempt to instill Republican values in children.

9/8/2009 11:02:28 AM

Quote :

"<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ksv9bq0xN1s&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ksv9bq0xN1s&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object> watched this on cspan today"

haha

I love how the camera cuts to a black kid when Regan says "just say NO to drugs"

9/8/2009 11:11:57 AM

Quote :

"For all the people calling the republicans crazy for opposing this, remember the dems actually held fuckign hearings after HW Bush spoke to kids. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/When-Bush-spoke-to-students-Democrats-investigated-held-hearings-57694347.html"

There's a difference between people having a true fear of Obama based on lies spread by the right-wing media, and the democrats playing the political game of trying to smear the president under the pretext of an accounting audit.

9/8/2009 11:14:45 AM

T-45 minutes until the the president uses taxpayer money to beam communist propaganda into the impressionable young brains of our nation's children. parents be prepared to greet your newly indoctrinated hippie zombie after school!

9/8/2009 11:17:17 AM

Conservatives Divided Over Obama School Speech

Quote :

" A Good Speech New Gingrich, after reading the speech, wrote, "It is a good speech and will be good for students to hear." National Review's Jim Geraghty agreed. "Not only uncontroversial, Obama's school speech is the finest of his presidency so far," Geraghty wrote. "Kids need to hear there's no easy route to success." Ed Morrissey called the speech "entirely innocuous" and a "non-event" due to its banal material. "It focuses on achievement and perseverance, two less-than-controversial qualities of success," he wrote. "It avoids any hint of proselytizing." Morrissey even questioned the far-more political speech Reagan gave to students in 1986. "

http://atlanticwire.theatlantic.com/read-more.php?id=943

9/8/2009 11:24:08 AM

Today on Fox & Frends, Newt Gingrich said it was a great speech and that he'd have his kids watching it. Steve Douchey was speechless .

9/8/2009 11:24:52 AM

haha. douchey. bet he's never heard that before

but the name is still apt

9/8/2009 11:43:43 AM

this speech is outstanding, from the 10 minutes or so that I just saw on WRAL.

If I had to fish for something to complain about, it would be the potentially collectivist undertone of "the country depends on you to get a good education", but obviously that interpretation is a stretch, at most.

In general, it isn't political at all, and is well delivered as always. Perfect style and perfect substance, and with a good mix of tough love and cheerleading.

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 12:18 PM. Reason : ]

9/8/2009 12:18:18 PM

I've had perfect attentance so far today. It looks like Glenn Beck failed my county

9/8/2009 12:31:55 PM

^^ Yeah, Obama's speech is very milquetoast: Try hard in school. Eat your vegetables. I mean, what's the point?

I have no objection to any president addressing the nation's school children. But let's not kid ourselves, Obama had something different in mind until this whole speech and lesson plan thing blew up in his face.

In any event, I doubt that many on the left would be so understanding if it were George W. Bush asking the nation's children to "help" with his agenda. And you all know it.

9/8/2009 12:47:58 PM

What's the point of a highly respected figure telling children to perform well in school? I don't know.

Plus, I feel like he had a hidden socialist agenda within his speech, and if it wasn't for PATRIOTS like Glenn Beck, he might have snuck one by us.

9/8/2009 12:49:32 PM

i was forced to show obama's socialist agenda-pushing speech in my classroom today

9/8/2009 12:50:10 PM

Regardless, the net effect is going to be that it looks exceptionally bad for the right.

9/8/2009 12:59:40 PM

^^^^ What did Obama ask for any help with his "agenda?"

The GOP's knee-jerk reaction against anything and everything Obama does is going to bite them in the butt.

9/8/2009 1:03:29 PM

^^^^ If you're looking for a Beck fan here, you've got the wrong guy in me:

Quote :

"I'm not a big Beck fan--too hyper and too goofy and too much with the conspiracy theories for me. . . ."

hooksaw

message_topic.aspx?topic=540676&page=12

I do think Beck raises some important issues that others--for whatever reason--won't raise. And he has had high TV ratings.

^ Are you informed concerning any subject?

Quote :

"The Education Department removed wording from a lesson plan to accompany the speech that suggested students write a letter to themselves 'about what they can do to help the president.'"

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5864AI20090907

Furthermore, aren't things like these that Obama mentioned obvious?

Quote :

"'Your goal can be something as simple as doing all your homework, paying attention in class or spending time each day reading a book,' Obama said in remarks prepared for delivery on Tuesday at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Virginia."

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5864AI20090907

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 1:10 PM. Reason : .]

9/8/2009 1:07:54 PM

The speech made it extremely clear that Obama was asking for help regarding the future of America-- not with any specific political agenda.


Your argument is pretty hilarious:

Because there was nothing controversial in the speech, it's proof that there was something controversial in the speech, because why would he have wanted to give the speech otherwise?

He's just that bad a guy, that he wouldn't want to give a pep talk to students unless there was something in it for him.


The whole premise of your cynicism is flawed: if Obama didn't truly believe that telling kids to work hard would have any effect, why would he believe that telling them to support healthcare would work?


[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 1:30 PM. Reason : ]

9/8/2009 1:10:57 PM

Quote :

"The Iraq war will cost us (over time) much more than the aggregate of policies implemented by Obama alone."

That remains to be seen.

Quote :

"As far as unpopular, the majority of policies implemented were policies on which he campaigned. People voted for him based on these policies, and as such I would hardly label them unpopular."

Which is why his approval ratings are dropping rapidly right? Further, I remember him campaigning on such policies as no more lobbyists getting positions and none of this standard DC politics of appointing the regulated to be the regulators. That hasn't worked out so well.

Quote :

"Bullshit and you know it. The Obama wasn’t born here nonsense had steam to it far before he was elected president, while the McCain notion was largely dismissed by the opposing party. The likelihood of that rumor picking up steam following a McCain election would have been nil."

Politics is dirty. I fully expect that had McCain been elected, we would have heard all sorts of shit about his birth. Or do you not remember how gleefully the pundits tore into Palin's family?

Quote :

"That's right, key word here being after. As in, after it turned out to be an attempt to instill Republican values in children."

Really? You think this was an attempt to instill Republican values (whatever that means) into children?

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/2009/09/06/heres-text-of-george-hw-bushs-speech-to-schoolchildren-18-years-ago/

A duller speech than Obama's to be sure, but if you really think that was an attempt to instill republican values, then you've got no room to talk about people being upset about Obama's plans.

Quote :

"The GOP's knee-jerk reaction against anything and everything Obama does is going to bite them in the butt."

One can only hope so. It would be nice for them all to fall apart and disappear back into their spider holes so that one could once again criticize Obama and his ilk without having to be charged with being brainwashed by Rush, or Beck or Savage or Rove or whoever the Democrat's boogeyman of the week is.

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 1:32 PM. Reason : asdf]

9/8/2009 1:29:28 PM

^^ So, your all-over-the-place response means you were wrong again, right? You asked me to provide evidence that Obama wanted help with his agenda and I did so:

Quote :

"The Education Department removed wording from a lesson plan to accompany the speech that suggested students write a letter to themselves 'about what they can do to help the president.'"

So, when the whole help the president fiasco went wrong, Obama rolled out the apple pie speech--I mean, are you against apple pie?

Quote :

"'Your goal can be something as simple as doing all your homework, paying attention in class or spending time each day reading a book,' Obama said in remarks prepared for delivery on Tuesday at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Virginia."

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5864AI20090907

NEWSFLASH: OBAMA TO GIVE MAJOR EDUCATION ADDRESS TO NATION'S SCHOOL CHILDREN:

Quote :

"DO YOUR HOMEWORK"

*Crickets*

9/8/2009 1:39:41 PM

Not to mention the great one Ronald Reagan's speech:

Quote :

" Today, to a degree never before seen in human history, one nation, the United States, has become the model to be followed and imitated by the rest of the world. But America's world leadership goes well beyond the tide toward democracy. We also find that more countries than ever before are following America's revolutionary economic message of free enterprise, low taxes, and open world trade. These days, whenever I see foreign leaders, they tell me about their plans for reducing taxes, and other economic reforms that they are using, copying what we have done here in our country. I wonder if they realize that this vision of economic freedom, the freedom to work, to create and produce, to own and use property without the interference of the state, was central to the American Revolution, when the American colonists rebelled against a whole web of economic restrictions, taxes and barriers to free trade. The message at the Boston Tea Party -- have you studied yet in history about the Boston Tea Party, where because of a tax they went down and dumped the tea in the Harbor. Well, that was America's original tax revolt, and it was the fruits of our labor -- it belonged to us and not to the state. And that truth is fundamental to both liberty and prosperity. "

Yeah, not partisan at all...........

9/8/2009 1:40:10 PM

Quote :

"READ A BOOK"

--Superintendent Obama

9/8/2009 1:42:06 PM

Again, your cynicism depends on:

A) Obama not really believing his speech could affect students' desire to do well

B) Obama believing that his speech could get students' parents to support the health care bill.


[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 1:45 PM. Reason : ]

9/8/2009 1:44:11 PM

^

Quote :

"What did Obama ask for any help with his 'agenda?' [sic]"

Boone

Quote :

"The Education Department removed wording from a lesson plan to accompany the speech that suggested students write a letter to themselves 'about what they can do to help the president.'"

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5864AI20090907

Quote :

"PAY ATTENTION IN SCHOOL"

--Superintendent Obama

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 1:50 PM. Reason : PS: ]

9/8/2009 1:50:23 PM

Quote :

"But let's not kid ourselves, Obama had something different in mind until this whole speech and lesson plan thing blew up in his face."

Haha do you have any proof of this?

I imagined this was exactly what Obama had in mind the entire time.

Despite the far-right rhetoric, Obama himself HAS been very even-handed in all of his speeches and public statements, and this speech was no different.

9/8/2009 1:50:53 PM

Quote :

"The Education Department removed wording from a lesson plan to accompany the speech that suggested students write a letter to themselves 'about what they can do to help the president.'"

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5864AI20090907

9/8/2009 1:51:36 PM

Quote :

"Which is why his approval ratings are dropping rapidly right? Further, I remember him campaigning on such policies as no more lobbyists getting positions and none of this standard DC politics of appointing the regulated to be the regulators. That hasn't worked out so well."

His ratings are dropping for a few reasons. there are those on the left who supported him who feel as if he hasn't gone far enough with his policies. This constitutes a sizable faction of those who elected him; however, I find it best not to fault the man for his efforts to remain centric.

Quote :

"Politics is dirty. I fully expect that had McCain been elected, we would have heard all sorts of shit about his birth. Or do you not remember how gleefully the pundits tore into Palin's family?"

Then you suspect wrong and live in a fantasy land or you're just grabbing at straws. No one would have fully supported the McCain birth dispute otherwise it would have generated similar ground to that of the Obama controversy prior to his election to office. Regarding Palin the bulk of family inquisition there was based on solid hard evidence. Namely that Bristol was pregnant and SP was strongly abstinence only. The coverage there was to highlight the failure in the policy. I'm not saying it was right or it was wrong, but it at least had roots in reality. Furthermore the peak of this controversy was prior to election and largely dwarfs any suggestion of McCain's lack of citizenship by birth thus illustrating how irrelevant and moot of a story his birth discrepancy was.

9/8/2009 1:52:54 PM

Man FUCK helping the President.

FIGHT THE MACHINE.

9/8/2009 1:52:57 PM

I've already provided you with a rational explanation of what "help" might have meant.

You've yet to address the flaw in your argument.

9/8/2009 1:54:22 PM

^^^^ that was poor wording, and they should have removed it.

It doesn't change the fact that this speech is pretty exactly in line with Obama's sentiments since his campaigning.

Or are you seriously suggesting that OBama was going up there to tell kids to accept socialized healthcare?

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 1:56 PM. Reason : ]

9/8/2009 1:55:07 PM

This is just another example of Obama out smarting his GOP competition, as he did throughout his presidential campaign. He knew the right had gotten so riled up from the health care debate, that they were going to jump on just about anything he did from here on out. So the White House lets it be known that they are giving this speech to children, republicans throw a fucking hissy fit about it as he knew they would, and when the actual content of the speech comes out, they look like complete idiots. This is going to really take a bite out of any future opposition to Obama's policies that the right tries to mount. This whole thing has made them look like the fucking sensationalist morons that they are.

9/8/2009 1:58:08 PM

Quote :

"DO YOUR HOMEWORK"

--Superintendent Obama

Quote :

"SMART AS FUCK"

9/8/2009 2:02:55 PM

Terminate hooksaw.

9/8/2009 2:06:26 PM

Quote :

"READ A BOOK"

--Superintendent Obama

9/8/2009 2:15:02 PM

for someone that complains about others posting without substance, you sure seem to do it a lot yourself...

9/8/2009 2:28:15 PM

^ What did you expect? Trolls are always hypocrites.

9/8/2009 2:32:26 PM

^^ and ^ Incorrect. I'm simply helping Superintendent Obama spread his "important" message--they're his words:

Quote :

"'Your goal can be something as simple as doing all your homework, paying attention in class or spending time each day reading a book,' Obama said in remarks prepared for delivery on Tuesday at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Virginia."

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5864AI20090907

Quote :

"DO YOUR HOMEWORK"

--Superintendent Obama

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ]

9/8/2009 2:32:48 PM

I've been keeping up with this thread and it was a decent debate until Hooksaw joined it. It's reminiscent of what used to happen when Salisburyboy found a thread to crash.

Please note, I'm not saying that they have the same style or ideas or anything like that, just pointing out how what once was an enjoyable and interesting read has denigrated into worthless drivel because of one guy posting the same shit over and over without actually addressing the points people are discussing.

9/8/2009 2:40:51 PM

You're mocking him for thinking his speech can make a difference in schools.

And indicting him for thinking his sinister first draft can make a difference in the health care debate.


This contradiction is clear to everyone, yet instead of addressing it, you're behaving like a child.

9/8/2009 2:41:39 PM

Quote :

"As far as unpopular, the majority of policies implemented were policies on which he campaigned."

One of the biggest problems for Obama so far is that he has set no real policy agenda. Health care, for example, was essentially, "you guys in Congress figure it out and I'll sign it." Truthfully, that is much more the role of the President than has been done in recent years, but people are used to the President being down in the weeds of politics. President Obama has simply continued to campaign as if he were candidate Obama.

Quote :

"People voted for him based on these policies"

No they didn't. Barack Obama was famously vague during the entire election on policy specifics. While some serious Democrats voted for him because he was their guy, the majority of swing and first time voters picked him because he was the more charismatic, attractive, and appealing of the two. They probably couldn't tell you the first thing about his pre-campaign policies. Hell, serious political observers had no idea.

Quote :

"This is just another example of Obama out smarting his GOP competition"

I don't know that this is completely the case, at least not with the initial speech. The GOP definitely played it's hand quick and hard and the administration definitely took advantage of it.

9/8/2009 2:48:45 PM

I'll happily bow out--I've made my point. And I'll look on in wonderment as this thread soars to new heights without me.

Proceed!

9/8/2009 2:49:42 PM

Quote :

"The only soaring that needs to be done, sir, is you off a bridge into the ocean. Good night and good luck."

          /

9/8/2009 2:52:00 PM

ah yes, MSNBC, the bottom of the journalistic barrel. gg.

9/8/2009 2:52:59 PM

Quote :

""Now I know it's not always easy to do well in school," he said. "I know a lot of you have challenges in your lives right now that can make it hard to focus on your schoolwork." He told students about how his own father left his family when he was just 2 years old, and how his single mother struggled to pay the bills. He felt lonely and as if he didn't fit in, he said. "So I wasn't always as focused as I should have been," said Obama, who in his autobiography confessed to experimenting with drugs in his past. "I did some things I'm not proud of, and got in more trouble than I should have. And my life could have easily taken a turn for the worse." But his mother always believed in education, he said, and he was able to rise above his mistakes. He asked students to make the most of their opportunities. At the end of the day, he said, "we can have the most dedicated teachers, the most supportive parents and the best schools in the world and none of it will make a difference, none of it will matter, unless all of you fulfill your responsibilities . . . unless you show up to those schools, pay attention to those teachers; listen to your parents, grandparents and other adults; and put in the hard work it takes to succeed." "

Quote :

"... One child identified with Obama's father leaving when he was a toddler and being raised by a single mother who woke him at 4:30 a.m. to help him with his studies. "I didn't have a father, too," the boy said. "But now I do.'' ... During one of those lags, she interviewed a boy named Eduardo, asking him what he'd like to be when he grew up. "A policeman, a veterinarian and a doctor,'' he told her. "How will you achieve your goals?" she asked. And without skipping a beat, the boy answered: "Just study.'' "

- http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_13291720

This video is pretty hilarious too I thought http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofxVMlU97yA

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 3:03 PM. Reason : ]

9/8/2009 3:00:35 PM

Quote :

" I know that sometimes, you get the sense from TV that you can be rich and successful without any hard work -- that your ticket to success is through rapping or basketball or being a reality TV star, when chances are, you’re not going to be any of those things. "

a few sentences later...

Quote :

"Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team, and he lost hundreds of games and missed thousands of shots during his career. But he once said, "I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." "

lollerskates

9/8/2009 3:04:31 PM

LOL

@

[user]Hacksaw[/user]

9/8/2009 3:17:01 PM

With a quick scroll through I didn't see today's speech embedded anywhere, so here it is:

9/8/2009 3:37:02 PM

Quote :

" ... Students who did watch, including 64 predominantly white AP history students at Alta High [in Utah], say what resonated most was Obama's personal narrative of rising from underprivileged roots to the White House. "I didn't know his Dad died," said 16-year-old Joseph Gibbons. Advertisement "My Dad died when I was young, too. It made him seem more real." On the political spectrum, Gibbons and most of his peers consider themselves conservative. But most came to class Tuesday with open minds and walked away thinking Obama's message was appropriate and right on point. No one chose to opt out. "There was no hidden agenda," said 15-year-old Nicole Moody of Draper. Travis Skene disagreed, suggesting the speech was a political stunt meant to improve Obama's popularity. "People will forever remember this day and look back and say, 'Wow what a great guy he was,'" said the 16-year-old. ..."

- http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13291959

[Edited on September 8, 2009 at 4:00 PM. Reason : ]

9/8/2009 3:59:29 PM