Quote :

"while very costly in terms of lives the japanese army during this time did not have very advanced tactics, overly relying on the massed infantry charge, resulting in the massive casualties that are depicted."

Word. That plus the frequent choosing of death over surrender lead to some real carnage. I'm just impressed that instead of showing a few dead japanese they showed an entire beach covered in bodies.

I wasn't let down by the first episode, but I hope that they don't try to gloss over any of the racism that american troops felt towards the japanese.

3/17/2010 5:12:03 PM

Not sure if its already been said - but The Pacific is available for any TWC customers via the HD Showcase channel, also a behind the scenes featurette

3/18/2010 12:13:02 AM

Quote :

"I wasn't let down by the first episode, but I hope that they don't try to gloss over any of the racism that american troops felt towards the japanese."

i don't think they will, i don't think they will really embrace it but neither will they simply paint over it... it was more a standard part of the environment for most units (even on the home front).

the racism went both ways just as strongly though

(obviously not every one felt this way, at a point you do gain some respect for your adversary despite)

3/18/2010 10:56:59 AM

Quote :

"i mean, sure its acting, but there's still very strong anti-Japanese repercussions seen today."

What are you talking about? I'd disagree on that one. I don't think that most of the top selling vehicles in this country would be Japanese if that was true.

3/18/2010 11:15:46 AM

any anti-Japanese "repercussions" you see today are just racist ass people being racist

3/18/2010 11:35:58 AM

I don't have HBO but stumbled upon the first episode on demand on channel 540. I was so happy and hope they continue to show the episodes on demand so I can see them.

I might have to re-watch it because I was slightly distracted but it seems a whole lot different from BoB. I'm interested to see the characters develop and who I will love and hate. A part of it kind of reminded me of "We Were Soldiers" when he found the dead Japanese soldiers possessions and saw the picture, doll, book etc. Definitely can't wait to see more!

And, It definitely made me want to break out the BoB dvds and just have a day watching it all over again.

3/18/2010 5:28:12 PM

^on TWC? I did the same thing...its not likely that they continue that

3/18/2010 6:03:27 PM

^^ they also have a making-of-the-pacific special there too, that has a lot of interesting behind the scenes stuff

3/18/2010 6:56:01 PM

bump for tonight

3/21/2010 11:45:33 AM

The featurettes on channel 540 are on 298 in HD

3/21/2010 3:32:33 PM

There are some serious gun fights going on in this show

3/21/2010 9:34:13 PM

episode 2 was great

3/21/2010 10:13:01 PM

again, i wasn't very impressed. The story telling/character development is leaving a lot to be desired for me.

Like the medic dying in the first episode and people being so down about it, I didn't understand how close Basilone was to the guy who died. I get "they were friends so it was really tough" - but I wasn't shown that they were such good friends. That relationship wasn't built up enough for me to really understand how hard it was on him, other than from him looking around for him and his expressions when he found him. If there was more character development before that, especially showing their relationship as being more than just soldiers in the same division, it would have garnered more empathy.

In comparing it to BoB, I don't feel as "drawn in." Which I know may sound silly to some, but I just don't care for these characters in that same sense because there hasn't been enough character development. And considering the time-frame which the first two episodes cover (4 months), there is time for those relationships to develop between the events of the first episode and the events of the second, we're just not seeing much it. Taking another hr of tv to cover that same amount of time could have gone a long way.

Also, I've read up on the time lines and battles we've seen so far. As I said, it was several months between the events of the first episode and the end of the second. It didn't feel that way to me. I got that they'd been there a while, but wasn't sure how long exactly. The 1st Marine Division landed on Aug 7th, the Alligator Creek battle was Aug 21st, the Henderson Field battle was Oct. 24th, and the 1st Division left Guadalcanal on Dec. 8th.

The battle that was covered in this episode took place over 3 nights - I didn't get that it had been several days.

From John Basilone's wikipedia entry in regard to the defense of Henderson Field:

Quote :

"On October 24, 1942 his unit engaged the Japanese in the Lunga area when their position came under attack by a regiment of approximately 3000 soldiers. The Japanese forces began a frontal attack using machine-guns, grenades and mortars against the American heavy machine-guns. The American forces fought for the next 48 hours until only Basilone and two other men from his squad were still able to continue fighting. Basilone moved an extra gun into position and maintained continual fire against the incoming Japanese forces. He repaired another machine-gun and personally manned it, holding the defensive line until replacements arrived. With the continuous fighting, ammunition became critically low and supply lines were cut off. Basilone fought through hostile lines and returned with urgently needed ammunition for his gunners. By the end of the battle, the Japanese regiment was virtually annihilated. For his actions during this battle he received the United States military's highest award for bravery, the Medal of Honor.[4] Afterwards Private First Class Nash W. Phillips, of Fayetteville, North Carolina, recalled him from the battle for Guadalcanal: "Basilone had a machine gun on the go for three days and nights without sleep, rest or food". "He was in a good emplacement, and causing the Japs lots of trouble, not only firing his machine gun but also using his pistol."[3]"

What he did seemed like a big deal in the episode - but 3 days and nights? I didn't get that sense of time lapse from it. This is where BoB really excelled, the voice overs did a great job of filling in these sort of blanks. Shoot, I'm not even sure we saw any daylight between the opening scene of that battle and the scene where Chesty* said he was going to recommend Basilone for a medal.

* Read up on Chesty Puller if you don't know anything about him.

Here's the entry on the battle itself, which breaks down each wave of attacks over the three days:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Henderson_Field

Reading over the history of the 1st Division (Leckie's division) - they were at Guadalcanal from August 7th until December 8th. I did not get the sense that it had been that long once they got back onto the ships - the dialogue made it seem like a while, but it didn't feel like it had been that long. And I certainly didn't get that it had been about 6 weeks since the battle we'd just witnessed -- am I missing some subtitles displaying the dates? Seriously, maybe I am.


I hate to just compare it to Band of Brothers, I think they wanted to avoid this simply being BoB II. But imo, Band of Brothers is one of, if not, the best war movie/mini-series ever. So it's definitely the standard for me, and this has some of the same people behind it... so it's tough not to compare. But comparing it to BoB or not doesn't change that it's just not doing a good job on the story telling front imo.

And I realize there's a ton of stuff that there just isn't time to include. I also realize there was a lot left out of Band of Brothers as well. But I never really felt that while watching BoB, only after reading about the battles. With this, it's obvious in the middle of the episodes that there's a lot that's missing/being glossed over about the characters and events.

[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 3:37 AM. Reason : .]

3/22/2010 3:34:56 AM

Quote :

"In comparing it to BoB, I don't feel as "drawn in." Which I know may sound silly to some, but I just don't care for these characters in that same sense because there hasn't been enough character development. And considering the time-frame which the first two episodes cover (4 months), there is time for those relationships to develop between the events of the first episode and the events of the second, we're just not seeing much it. Taking another hr of tv to cover that same amount of time could have gone a long way."

are you sure that you don't just care about the BoB characters more because you have seen the series several times and actually know who they are from the first episode on? Because i know it was a huge gripe when BoB premiered by me and many other people that you really had no idea who anyone was besides Nixon and Winters until about 5 or 6 episodes in. But once it was released on DVD and you got to watch it again, and in succession, it became much easier to recognize each character and follow their arcs.

3/22/2010 8:26:46 AM

^ that is what i'm kinda thinking and leaning towards myself. we've been a bit spoiled with BoB because of the year it was made and the fact some of us have seen the series from start to finish multiple times already. so in essence, you cant compare the start of this series to the BoB series as a whole after watching it several times, you have to compare the start of this series to the start of the BoB series exactly like Jeepin alluded to.

btw, loved episode 2 last night. the shear animal and tenacity in Basilone kicking ass and taking names made me realize these guys really were hardcore. the looks on the guys' faces in the machine gun pit as Basilone is letting loose is epic; i think that was a great summation of what was happening.

[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 8:36 AM. Reason : .]

3/22/2010 8:33:23 AM

anyone found a streaming link for this?

3/22/2010 9:03:11 AM

http://www.ninjavideo.net/cat/2362

3/22/2010 9:26:42 AM

Quote :

"are you sure that you don't just care about the BoB characters more because you have seen the series several times and actually know who they are from the first episode on? Because i know it was a huge gripe when BoB premiered by me and many other people that you really had no idea who anyone was besides Nixon and Winters until about 5 or 6 episodes in. But once it was released on DVD and you got to watch it again, and in succession, it became much easier to recognize each character and follow their arcs."

Yes, that's very possible and I've thought myself that it may be the case. It's impossible to look back and recall how I felt about any of the characters in BoB after the first few episodes - especially having seen it several times. But I do seem to recall knowing a couple of the characters from the get go. And just knowing them but having some empathy for them for what they had to go through with Schwimmer's character. Granted, that only involved a couple of the characters, but then it built up from there. Here, I feel like I know they're a few of, if not the main characters simply because they're on screen a lot more so than me really being behind them/ emphasizing and rooting for them... if that makes sense.

And I should say that after seeing Basilone's macine gun bad-assery, I am - and I think pretty much everyone else watching - much more drawn to his story now. At the time I wrote that (3am?), I wished we had known a little more about him before seeing him do something so amazing. I think seeing someone before their in a position like that makes it all the more impressive when they arise to the occasion because I don't think you expect it or see it coming from anyone -- even the guys in his unit were stunned by what he did.

but you're right, 5 parts from here will be very different. And going back after seeing 5 more parts, these first 2 episodes will be very different.


I'll definitely watch all of it and assess it as a whole.

But like i said, even if BoB never existed... it doesn't negate the fact that the actual battle depicted in this episode lasted 3 days -- and I didn't catch a single mention or reference of that. Maybe I missed it though. Or the fact that there's no sense of the time lapse in general. That aspect reminds of the movie 30 Days of Night - If you've seen it (or not I guess) there's a scene after they've entered the attic, seems like maybe a few days later, then a caption pops up and says that it's been something like 3 weeks since the beginning of the story. Without that caption, you would have no idea... because nothing in the story/movie/dialogue made it feel like it had been such a long time. And then that may cause you to think "well, how long passed between the rest of the scenes?"

It's like that with The Pacific - except I'm not seeing captions or hearing voice overs telling the audience how much time is passing. Again, maybe I've missed a few captions - it's possible. But if that's not the case, that's just poor story telling. It's not necessarily easy to make the viewer feel like it's been as long as it has, but a voice over and at worst a caption will definitely get the job done. They have this element of Leckie writing - it would be fairly easy to incorporate it into his letters and writings and he could occasionally read it out load tot he guys when they ask, or have him say what he's writing as a voice over.


i'll definitely fold on that it's not fair to compare some things which will change for me by the end of the series (perception of a character throughout an arc). But polishing over a 3 day battle and making it seem like a 1 night event, and the time issues are annoying the shit out of me so far. Voice overs/the letter writing mechanism could also be used to fill in some of the background on things like the air raid we see fly over when the army guys ran off - which from what I've read, resulted in some of the largest air to air combat in the pacific theater.

[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 10:45 AM. Reason : n]

3/22/2010 10:45:05 AM

just read a review on the onion/avclub that articulate's what I'm getting at much better. -- essentially that even though it's been done A LOT, the pre-war/training aspect of most war movies gives us a chance to get to know the characters and then in turn get a much better idea of how it changes them, including those moments when they really rise to an unthinkable level of heroism like Basilone did. And The Pacific skipped that part. Although, perhaps intentionally (obviously intentionally, but maybe as in it's more part of the theme than just skipping over something that's been done a lot).

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/tvshow/the-pacific,101/

No real spoilers in the articles.. but the comments are anything goes. And the author has seen the entire series. So even though the articles are for each individual part, and he's avoiding spoiling anything, just know that the reviewer knows what's coming.

3/22/2010 1:56:56 PM

I know exactly what duro982 is getting at. In fact, after last night's episode I almost posted something similar, but decided not to because I figured I was thinking about BoB in its entirety.

The more I think about it, though, the more I do feel like the character development leaves alot to be desired. It's not just the time spent on each character, either. The writing of the characters in BoB made sure you knew who they were even if they didn't spend much time on backstory.

It's not that I am not enjoying it, but it seems like the writing is pretty poor so far. Like Duro said, there is no sense of time, it's hard to care about the characters because we don't know anything about them or their relationships, and the one character that we do actually have some backstory/relationship to (Eugene) isn't even involved in the battle yet.

3/22/2010 2:33:01 PM

Professor Caddell was telling us how great BoB was not long after it first came out and made a point to mention how it's biggest criticism was that you often wouldn't get to know a character before he was killed off. He insisted that such a criticism was absurd because war generally works just like that.

3/22/2010 2:47:04 PM

yeah, i think what they decided to with the first few parts was just throw the viewer in head first into the battle of Guadalcanal just like the soldiers. We don't really know what's going on, who the guys are in the bunker next to us and what exactly we are up against. And i think they achieved doing that. A lot of recounts of those first battles in the pacific note that they men weren't as much fighting as they were holding on. So we've been blindsided by that. Now the story shifts back to the homefront and I imagine we'll get to see Eugene go through bootcamp, which allows us as viewers to go through it too and feel that transformation that much of you feel is lacking. I think now we'll get both the viewpoint of someone who is anticipating action and the nerves that he has and the viewpoint of those that have just been gone to the depths of hell and and back and now have to come down from that.

3/22/2010 3:16:25 PM

^^ I disagree with what you're saying with Prof. Caddell simply in that I don't think that's what I'm talking about. I get what he's saying - about reflecting back on the guy after he died and really understanding who he was at that point. But that's not what I was getting at. I don't expect that in two episodes. But it's 2hrs in (20% - it's 10 parts, right?), and the only thing we know about the guys who seem to the primaries is what they look like because they give them a lot of screen time - even though they haven't done much with them.


But after talking and thinking about it, i think the lack of character development so far is intentional and part of the overall theme. From what Sledge's father was telling him, I think once he get's over there we'll get a contrast of those who are battle weary/have been changed some to his fresh out of boot camp take on it. And maybe a lot of it will be trying to see if he can hang on to what his father was telling him that he's seen a lot of men lose.

This first group all experienced fighting the Japanese for the first time together (on land), which was a very different experience than Europe. And you're gonna get these new guys who aren't quite sure what they're gonna get into yet anyhow, but definitely not this new type of enemy mentality. - I think/hope looking back.

In the context of Basilone and what I said about the guys around him being stunned - at the time I wished it surprised me in that sense as well. But thinking about it, I believe it did and I just wasn't thinking about it right. It didn't surprise me in that way because as a viewer I didn't know any of the guys really, it could have been any one of those guys in that machine gun nest who did it. But that's kinda the point - it could have been any one of those guys (or none of them), and it was Basilone - those other guys in the nest learned this about Basilone at the same time as the viewer and I'm sure a lot of other soldiers in war learned things about the guys in their units that way as well. He was just a regular soldier like everyone else up until that point, and now we all see him in a different light. It was as much his introduction to us as it was to them. And he really came out of nowhere in that sense to viewers because he hadn't had a lot of character development up until that point - which would have detracted from it because it would have been more obvious that "well, this is our main guy... our hero." I think.

So after talking and thinking about it a bit, i'll recant everything i said about character development so far. I do think it IS different than BoB. I believe we "knew" some of the key players in BoB, better at this point and better before they ever got to that "moment." But it just creates a different effect on the viewer. And I like it a lot better now than I did at the time I was watching it.


Maybe the sense of time, or lack thereof, will come into play as well -- not so sure about that one.

anyhow, hope i didn't bore you /blog

3/22/2010 6:15:32 PM

first off, def did not bore me duro...
I got to watch it tonight, and really enjoyed reading your, and others', thoughts on this episode after watching it

that said, I do agree w/ the sentiment that it feels like we've had little backstory or character development for 2 of the 3 main guys Pac is going to focus on for the series. however, I'm glad you recanted () as I think we may all feel a little differently after seeing Eugene's story. We seem to be getting more of a before/after story with him whereas we are thrown in to the story of Basilone and Stone--their story is more of a "during/after" perhaps? With only being 2 episodes in, we'll see.

The episode 2 itself...Basilone's rise to heroism was very well done. I enjoyed this episode much more than the 1st and with that am only looking forward to the final 8. And I leave you with...

Peaches.

3/23/2010 12:09:27 AM

this show is tits.

3/23/2010 10:35:07 AM

I'm enjoying this so far, but I think that, especially if you compare it with something like Band of Brothers, it's really highlighting the inherent difficulty of doing a Pacific Theater story, especially in the battle scenes. Something like "Okay, we have to capture this farm from the Germans" is easier to make into a compelling narrative than "Dig in and hold off wave after wave after Japanese soldiers charging out of the jungle." There's an element of linear and kinetic energy that just ends up being missing. I'm in agreement with some of the earlier comments about the passage of time not being obvious enough. That, to me, is what would make the battle scenes more interesting from a filmmaking perspective - defending a position for three nights and the fatigue that would go along with that would make a more more compelling narrative. Not to mention, when everything is happening at night and everyone's wearing a helmet, it gets damned confusing as to which character we're seeing.

3/25/2010 12:46:53 AM

perhaps the lack of progression of time is done intentionally to convey to the audience that in the Pacific Theatre of War there really was no sense of time due to what the men had to endure. it turned into one long endless fight to them and so that's what we are to get out of it as well.

3/25/2010 7:57:00 AM

i agree, the time sense is off some, and character development needed to progress a little more, voice over in parts would probably help with some of this, a lot of it seems to result of not being able to really get much of a build up... character or time wise...

3/25/2010 12:46:49 PM

my only complaint is that i look forward to it being an hour long program when in reality, i have to sit through 15 mins of intro

3/26/2010 11:27:48 AM

So far, Band of Brothers is definitely more compelling. I just watched the first couple of BoB again for comparison and it is executed significantly better. We'll see how Pacific plays out, though.

3/27/2010 2:07:51 AM

bttt for last night's episode

3/29/2010 8:29:18 AM

Just watched it. I think that is exactly what the series needed and it was a good choice to develop the characters that way for this series.

Never thought I'd like an episode with literally zero fighting but it was good.

(of course, it is a bit disturbing that they made up Leckie's whole relationship out of thin-air...)

[Edited on March 29, 2010 at 9:30 AM. Reason : x]

3/29/2010 9:21:43 AM

^ i agree 100%. i was a bit hesitant on the fact there was no action at all in this episode but it was still a really good episode none-the-less. i think we learned a great deal about Leckie and Basilone as individuals. as for Leckie, i read earlier this morning that the writers took some liberty with his story; basically the whole thing with him and Stella never happened in real life. from what was said, he was more of the type to sleep around with all kinds of different girls from one night to the next. for purposes of the series tho, i think it was good they took a slight alteration cause it develops his character more. it'll be interesting to see if it leads to his demise or his redemption considering he has started to be a trouble-maker, enough so to get transferred.

3/29/2010 1:19:44 PM

another good ep

^^didn't seem out of thin air to me...just moved much faster than the other marine (can't remember his name) in a relationship that we saw

^a-ha...yep, much better story (so far).

[Edited on March 29, 2010 at 1:24 PM. Reason : ]

3/29/2010 1:20:23 PM

Oh, I don't mean how they portrayed it but just that it was not historically real... I know they can take some creative liberties but for the most part they have been painstakingly accurate but that whole relationship was made up.

V from the previews from the following week, it's just an intelligence tent. Still on the frontline pretty much. I'm pretty sure that was what Nix was in BoB...

[Edited on March 29, 2010 at 1:54 PM. Reason : x]

3/29/2010 1:42:39 PM

So when they said that he is being transferred to intelligence, what exactly does that mean? I guess he isn't in the trenches with his friends anymore?

3/29/2010 1:52:32 PM

they referred to it as "battalion intelligence". and what ^^ said, it looks to be he is still on or very near the front-lines according to next week's preview.

[Edited on March 29, 2010 at 1:57 PM. Reason : ^]

3/29/2010 1:57:46 PM

Isn't that in line with what Nixon did BoB?

3/29/2010 1:58:20 PM

Intelligence could be anything. My grandpa got transferred into an intelligence corps in World War II because he could speak German, so they pulled him out of the 105th and put him in the 106th to interpret/translate/interrogate POWs. Depending on what you're doing I'm sure you could be from anywhere from the front lines to not seeing any action.

3/31/2010 1:55:32 AM

First 2 eps have been pretty boring -- standard military movie fare. none of the characters are really interesting. BOB had bad ass dick winters

4/2/2010 11:12:45 PM

there was a lot of fucking in episode 3... im just sayin

4/4/2010 9:02:55 PM

pretty good episode. after seeing the previews ondemand, i think i might puke during the Peleliu battles.

still hard to tell if this will measure up to BOB.

4/5/2010 12:31:18 PM

I liked the Leckie episode.......and next weeks looks bad ass

4/5/2010 6:31:33 PM

Quote :

"still hard to tell if this will measure up to BOB."

It won't. BOB was way more compelling 3 episodes in

4/5/2010 9:33:23 PM

it's not BOB, we get it, shut up people

4/6/2010 10:50:32 AM

yeah i don't know why i like leckie, but i do

4/6/2010 11:27:18 AM

it's because he's a real story of getting fucked, being bitter, and still doing the right thing

4/6/2010 11:35:53 AM

Haven't watched Part IV yet, but Part III was way too long of a transition. Obviously Part IV is going to be all fighting, but did BoB have this many transitions? I own the collection and I don't remember it being this slow between battles.

4/6/2010 11:49:55 AM

honestly, they are trying to tell the entire story of the 1st marine division. and the 1st marine division spent more time in Australia than Easy Company (Band of Brothers) did in Europe so it was necessary.

4/6/2010 12:57:47 PM

I do know one thing, BoB didn't have any tits. Not complaining here, just pointing it out.

4/6/2010 1:00:45 PM