No, it's a perfect example of what mambagrl wants, a government created revenue-neutral agency.

[Edited on March 3, 2010 at 2:26 PM. Reason : ,]

3/3/2010 2:24:08 PM

Quote :

"Are kidding? Kids fight over possessions all the time."

Read the post. only after learning about scarcity. (ie:theres only 5 cookies total)

Quote :

"Fixed it for you. You haven't advocated "progressive taxation" once. Instead you favor the complete abolition of private industry, because for some reason an individual stops contributing and becomes evil as soon as he hires an employee. "

My economic plan (which would be what I advocate) involves progrssive taxation). I don't "advocate" communism but this is a thread where we are comparing pure communism to pure capitalism and how each fit into christianity.

I don't favor the complete abolition of the private industry, I'm simply laying out the pros to completely abolishing the private industry.

3/3/2010 2:37:24 PM

Quote :

"Read the post. only after learning about scarcity. (ie:theres only 5 cookies total)"

Bullshit. Competition for resources is a fundamental part of evolutionary psychology and is seen in every other species on the planet.

Quote :

"I'm simply laying out the pros to completely abolishing the private industry. "

You've already made it abundantly clear that you see private industry as evil even though you have no grasp of how a free market works.

Can you not explain how FedEx and UPS exist despite the existance of a revenue-neutral entity like USPS?

3/3/2010 2:53:00 PM

Quote :

"The USPS is not funded by taxpayers, by the way. The only federal funds they get are reimbursements for shit like free postage for blind people."

We shall see how long that lasts.

Quote :

"the Postal Service (USPS) projects a net loss of more than $7 billion at fiscal year-end"

3/3/2010 3:03:11 PM

^

Quote :

"If they opt out, fine. Good luck competing with the government whodoesn't need to make a profit"

3/3/2010 3:07:56 PM

Quote :

"What could possibly be easier than convincing Congress to give it to them?"

Not having to dodge congress in order to steal to begin with. Now they have to go through a long and complicated process to try and get congress to let them steal, if government shrunk this process would become more streamlined.

Quote :

"Congress moves faster does it? "

I never said that.

Quote :

"Competition for resources is a fundamental part of evolutionary psychology and is seen in every other species on the planet."

No it's not, why do you think animals form herds? But here is an interesting study on a very primitive type of slime mold which has evolved both altruism and a natural mechanism to weed out cheaters and favor cooperation over competition.
http://www.damninteresting.com/amoebic-morality

Quote :

"Can you not explain how FedEx and UPS exist despite the existance of a revenue-neutral entity like USPS?"

In all fairness, they really go after different markets.

Quote :

"We shall see how long that lasts."

Well at the same time the USPS has been taking steps to reduce costs (something that would not happen using your logic), they have proposed closing several poorly performing post offices as well as not delivering on Saturday.

3/3/2010 5:41:47 PM

Five myths about the U.S. Postal Service

3/3/2010 5:46:32 PM

Quote :

"Well at the same time the USPS has been taking steps to reduce costs (something that would not happen using your logic)"

We shall see if it does happen. Congress is already acting to put an end to all the cost cutting. The public employees union is getting ready to have its say, too. Government simply does not work fast enough or wisely enough to run an entire economy with any semblance of rationality.

^ A well thought out article, but a little too propagandish, since it dances around the fact that the USPS has been granted a monopoly. FedEx and UPS don't compete with them for a reason, they don't want to go to jail.

[Edited on March 3, 2010 at 6:14 PM. Reason : .,.]

3/3/2010 6:11:25 PM

Quote :

"No it's not, why do you think animals form herds? But here is an interesting study on a very primitive type of slime mold which has evolved both altruism and a natural mechanism to weed out cheaters and favor cooperation over competition."

Being in a herd offers a degree of protection from predators. To survive an attack from a lion you just have to be faster than the slowest wildebeest. A single family of wildebeest wandering around would be annihilated by predators in very short order. There's no degree of altruism within that.

The study of altruism and evolutionary psychology is actually pretty fascinating. Most argue that tribes exist because all people in the community are interrelated and share genomes. As such, one is willing to look out for the other people because even if they don't survive theres a good chance that other members will and in doing so will pass on chunks of their genetic material even though they can't do it personally. This is the same reason that people will throw down their own lives to protect their kids, but if forced to choose they'll support the survival of their own children over the children of someone else in the tribe. Altruism in itself is a selfish evolutionary trait used to ensure survival.

Your article supports this theory:

Quote :

"So long as all the amoebas which make up the slug are related, this impressive display of self-sacrifice on the part of the stalk cells makes sense. Though they will perish in the act of creating the stalk, they will pass along their genetic legacy via their kin. In fact, when the amoebas reproduce by division, they create an ever-increasing pool of genetically identical clones. These clones suffer no genetic cost at all from sacrificing their lives for each other."

That being said, two strangers will gladly fight over resources, including kids fighting over toys or cookies. Hell, siblings will also fight over resources if it only looks like one has a chance at survival.

Quote :

"In all fairness, they really go after different markets."

What aside from the markets that USPS has a legal monopoly over?

3/3/2010 6:58:32 PM

Quote :

"But here is an interesting study on a very primitive type of slime mold which has evolved both altruism and a natural mechanism to weed out cheaters and favor cooperation over competition."

Altruism to protect ones descendants (or in this case, clones) isn't really altruism. Plenty of people are willing to make great sacrifices for their kids. Very few will make the same level of sacrifice for someone they don't know.

Quote :

"Most argue that tribes exist because all people in the community are interrelated and share genomes."

More likely, I suspect, it's the knowledge that even if you die there is someone who will probably take care of your kid. I'm not familiar with any human culture (although I'm sure some exist) where it is common practice to kick orphans out into the wild. Either a friend or relative will take them in, and it's hard to have friends or relatives if you move around independently.

3/4/2010 12:24:36 AM

Quote :

"Most argue that tribes exist because all people in the community are interrelated and share genomes."

Well that's a bit different from "self interest", while it might be related, but it's still different from what you were arguing, but if you found it interesting, you may also be interested in this wikipedia article citing several other instances.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruism_in_animals

While self interest may be natural, so are many other behaviors, but regardless, an action being "natural" doesn't necessarily make it right, or even a good thing to do.

Quote :

"What aside from the markets that USPS has a legal monopoly over?"

You mean the market that is steadily declining and shrinking? They should thank the government for keeping them out of it.

Quote :

"Altruism to protect ones descendants (or in this case, clones) isn't really altruism."

Sure it is, the definition of altruism is concern for the welfare of others, considering these are different organisms, then this would be altruism.

I'm not going to argue that there aren't less benevolent reasons for altruism, but to state that self interest is the only natural state is simply wrong.

3/4/2010 7:36:02 PM

What we would need here is a situation where we see something in its natural state regularly demonstrating "altruism" for purely selfless reasons. The fundamental desire to propagate one's own genes is not exactly selfless.

Socialists are supposed to be good at taking the long view of things, and what longer view than the genetic? Any species that does not have an innate and overriding drive to pass on its genes is bound to go extinct, and quickly.

3/5/2010 3:15:04 AM

Even if every animal on the globe were cut throat individualists we'd still have tons of reasons to set up cooperative behavior. The nice part about being human is that our behavior is more plastic.

3/5/2010 8:26:09 AM

Have you ever been nice to a homeless person? They less grateful than bailed-out CEO's.

3/5/2010 2:46:27 PM

Quote :

"The fundamental desire to propagate one's own genes is not exactly selfless."

But it's not directly self interest either.

Quote :

"Have you ever been nice to a homeless person? They less grateful than bailed-out CEO's."

In all fairness, they have a lot less to be grateful for.

3/5/2010 5:26:53 PM

Quote :

"But it's not directly self interest either."

It's what evolutionary psych calls a distal cause.

3/5/2010 6:00:34 PM

A lot of my comrades here in Albuquerque are Catholic Workers, Christian anarchist communists. Some favor primitivism as well. I'm impressed by the syntheses folks can manage.

Quote :

"Have you ever been nice to a homeless person? They less grateful than bailed-out CEO's."

Homeless people are awfully pleasant in my experience. I've yet to personally encounter any CEOs.

[Edited on March 5, 2010 at 7:16 PM. Reason : CEOs on the street]

3/5/2010 7:13:55 PM

http://www.housingwatch.com/2010/03/08/developers-embrace-new-flip-tax/?icid=main|aim|dl7|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fhttp://www.housingwatch.com%2F2010%2F03%2F08%2Fdevelopers-embrace-new-flip-tax%2F


perfect example of getting paid without doing work

3/8/2010 5:05:45 PM

Really? Apparently developing an area from forest to livable homes with streets and utilities is not doing work. That you for some reason want to get paid slowly over time instead of all at once does not alter the equation.

Or is it your assertion that workers contracting to receive a pension are an example of getting paid without doing work? Yes, they didn't do work this week, but they did work back before they retired, we are paying them today for that work.

[Edited on March 8, 2010 at 8:46 PM. Reason : .,.]

3/8/2010 8:46:30 PM

no we aren't. we are paying them for a lifetime for one days work.

5/20/2010 11:40:57 PM

If you don't like it then don't buy a house from a developer with that clause in their contract.

However, by inserting this clause the developer is able to sell it at a lower price and thus making it possible for the buyer to get it cheaper than otherwise possible.

5/21/2010 2:35:03 PM

have not read the thread yet, so this might've already been addressed with regards to the original post:

each of the religions -- yes, i called communism a religion; the same can be said about la sez faire; its all religious dogma -- is a threat to the other.

5/21/2010 3:31:22 PM

if communism was a religion, itd be Christianity.

5/21/2010 7:17:24 PM

if a moron had an alias, itd be mambagrl

5/21/2010 7:37:01 PM