Quote :

"Lololol at the notion that wake is a better job than ours. There's a reason that you talk about paul, duncan, and howard instead of 1974 or 1983 when you talk the wake job. They've never won anything and a couple nba superstars are all they have."

More kids know who Chris Paul, Tim Duncan, and Josh Howard are than whether or not NC State has ever won a national championship. The ones that do, have only seen it when they talk about Cinderellas during the tournament. And those that do know...don't give a fuck.

[Edited on April 8, 2010 at 12:04 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2010 12:03:54 PM

State is a better job, but Wake is an easier job.

4/8/2010 12:04:24 PM

State recruits dummies

Wake recruits semidummies

4/8/2010 12:07:19 PM

I don't know why people keep feeding these trolls.

4/8/2010 12:09:11 PM

point awarded to jbrick83

4/8/2010 12:17:23 PM

i hope they hire Herb

4/8/2010 1:32:46 PM

Quote :

"Take your rose colored glasses off and realize that most of the people outside of NC State don't give a shit about NC State"

Yeah, cause Wake Forest has a huge national following...

I don't get it, its like you're trying so hard to be objective and not come across as a homer, that you're essentially just blindly shitting on State's history and completely playing yourself. And also you also act like high school kids are all fucking idiots that don't know about google and have zero respect for basketball and its history. I know when I was in high school, I damn sure knew about players like Dr. J and George Gervin, I knew Russell went to San Francisco and Wilt went to Kansas, I know Pistol went to LSU. And that was without the internet. You act like these kids are so fucking sheltered from basketball history. Newflash: basketball is the most important thing in most of these kids' lives. God forbid they know something that happened before 2010.

Its ironic that you're so hellbent on not coming across as a State homer, but when its all said and done, you come across as a massive Wake homer

What the fuck has Wake won, ever? Jack fucking shit. Quit trying to put them on the same level as one of the most influential programs in the history of college basketball.

4/8/2010 1:34:49 PM

^ this. jbrick83 just shut up.

4/8/2010 1:43:48 PM

Quote :

"The real basketball god doesn't go to college if he doesn't have to. "

You realize I said a god of COLLEGE basketball, right?

4/8/2010 1:54:29 PM

Quote :

"Quit trying to put them on the same level as one of the most influential programs in the history of college basketball."

Holy. fucking. shit.

4/8/2010 1:56:11 PM

Well lets see

We pretty much created the most dominant conference in the history of college basketball

One of our players, arguably the best college player ever, singlehandedly caused the NCAA to ban dunking

Should I go on? Or are you going to tell me that no high school baseball players have ever heard of Reggie Jackson or Ted Williams?

4/8/2010 2:03:57 PM

dude what are you talking about. we're under all 850 BIG BEAST schools in prestige. Didn't you see how they dominated the tournament this year? Didn't you see how Villanova's 85 championship is plastered all over ESPN? They even have a week where they do nothing but jack off over the coach who had that run. No way we can ever catch up to that, especially when UNC and Duke have our entire state on lockdown in recruiting. Do you even know of a top recruit from NC that hasn't gone to UNC or Duke in the last year?

[Edited on April 8, 2010 at 2:20 PM. Reason : thompson didnt cause them to ban dunking btw]

4/8/2010 2:18:48 PM

Quote :

"Didn't you see how they dominated the tournament this year?"

you trollin'?

4/8/2010 2:22:25 PM

where did that john wall guy end up? oh yeah, not unc or duke

4/8/2010 2:22:51 PM

^^^well they might've banned it because of Kareem, but Skywalker is why they didn't lift the ban until he left State

[Edited on April 8, 2010 at 2:23 PM. Reason : ^x3]

4/8/2010 2:23:35 PM

Quote :

"One of our players, arguably the best college player ever, singlehandedly caused the NCAA to ban dunking"

Tree just had his "what is the DH?" moment

4/8/2010 2:23:44 PM

singlehandedly prolonged the dunking ban

the part about creating the ACC is more important though

[Edited on April 8, 2010 at 2:24 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2010 2:24:15 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, cause Wake Forest has a huge national following... I don't get it, its like you're trying so hard to be objective and not come across as a homer, that you're essentially just blindly shitting on State's history and completely playing yourself. And also you also act like high school kids are all fucking idiots that don't know about google and have zero respect for basketball and its history. I know when I was in high school, I damn sure knew about players like Dr. J and George Gervin, I knew Russell went to San Francisco and Wilt went to Kansas, I know Pistol went to LSU. And that was without the internet. You act like these kids are so fucking sheltered from basketball history. Newflash: basketball is the most important thing in most of these kids' lives. God forbid they know something that happened before 2010. Its ironic that you're so hellbent on not coming across as a State homer, but when its all said and done, you come across as a massive Wake homer What the fuck has Wake won, ever? Jack fucking shit. Quit trying to put them on the same level as one of the most influential programs in the history of college basketball."

Now that I'm off the phone, I can actually respond to some of this crap.

First of all...you are over estimating the knowledge that a lot of these kids have about basketball history. There wasn't a kid on my high school basketball team that could tell you Pistol Pete went to LSU or that Russel went to San Fransisco. I was on JV when Chris Wilcox was on my varsity squad (he left after junior year to go to Enloe)...and he could only tell you the recent superstars that were on Duke and UNC. And he might be on the lower end of the spectrum...but on the higher end...there are very few that have the knowledge that some of the posters on this board have.

And even if kids know...this is what you are missing....THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK. I'll say it again....HIGH SCHOOL KIDS DO NOT GIVE A FUCK THAT NC STATE HAS WON 2 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS IN '74 AND '83. They sure as fuck don't care that we were the figured heads for the Dixie Classic and the mainstays in the beginning of the ACC.

The top things kids think about when deciding what school to go to:

- Exposure (being in a big conference, being on TV a lot)
- Getting to the nba (has a lot to do with exposure and what that current program/coach has recently sent to the league)
- Playing time (these first three points are all inter-twined)
- Winning (what has the team done recently and how do they look for the one/two/three/four years that the player will be there)
- Does the player actually like the coach and the school
- Getting tons of pussy
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- blah blah
- Whether or not this team has won any championships 25 + years in the past

Right now...Wake Forest is on our level as a program...if not a little higher. They have had more recent success, they have put just as many players in the NBA (although their players are performing at a much higher level...our players are on the bench...with the exception of Hickson), and they have about the same amount of exposure (they probably are nationally televised a few more times a year than we are).

From a high school kid's perspective, we're pretty much on the same level...maybe a little bit below. For a potential coaching candidate...we are probably about the same level. The first thing a coach will think about is how he can pitch the school to a high school kid. For the reasons already illustrated, Wake MIGHT be a little better in that aspect. State has better facilities...advantage State of course.

To make you homers happy, I'll say that we're even. But you're dead wrong if you think our program is on a higher level than Wake's right now. And I fucking hate Wake. My list of hate pretty much goes UNC....then a combo of Duke/Wake/Maryland.

The problem with State fans is that we haven't had any recent success in anything. So we have to hang our hats on the past. The longer we go without winning anything substantial, the more inflated our minds get on the fact that we think people actually give a shit about what we accomplished in the past...when they really don't.

State has a nice history. It makes for nice framed SI covers and old memorabilia that you can hang in your "NC State room" when you get older. It makes us smile when we see the Jimmy V speech, the highlights of the '83 run, or when current people talk about David Thompson being the best college basketball player of all time. But that's all it gets us. If we could actually win something in the next few years, then the stuff in the past helps us. If we could go to a Final Four in the next few years....then instead of saying "we went to a final four in 2012"...we can say, "we made our third final four in 2012." THATS WHEN OUR HISTORY ACTUALLY GIVES US SOME RELEVANCE. But since we haven't done JACK SHIT in over 25 years....it really does nothing to help our program. That's all I'm trying to say and what you guys are not getting.

I love our history...it just doesn't help us at all right now other than to show a kid some nice clips and a few rafters when they come in on their recruiting trip. Then that kids goes to Duke/UNC/Kentucky/Kansas...and sees more of it. Or he goes to Wake and they show him videos of Chris Paul or Tim Duncan dominating...and that honestly will mean just as much to that kid as showing him two of our old-ass banners.

[Edited on April 8, 2010 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2010 2:24:23 PM

Quote :

"They have had more recent success"

This is what I don't get. What exact "success" has Wake had, either recently or historically? 1 Sweet 16 in the last 10 years just like us? Obviously Paul and Duncan are more relevant NBA players than any current State guys, but where is this mythical recent success you keep bringing up? They haven't made a Final Four since 1962.

If all you want to say is that kids know Paul and Duncan more than our players, fine I'll give you that. But thats all Wake has on us.

4/8/2010 2:27:36 PM

They haven't been the doormat for the past three years.

They have been ranked in the top 5/top 10 for weeks...in actual different years. It's not exactly dominating...but a helluva lot more than we've done.

4/8/2010 2:29:00 PM

You say nobody cares about national titles since they happened 27 and 36 years ago. But you think people remember or care about being ranked in the top 5 for a few weeks? Really?

Nobody is going to care how good the Big East was this year because aside from WVU, nobody showed up in when it mattered. And when it matters, Wake has one Sweet 16 in the last 10 years, just like us.

Again, I agree about the recent players point. But playing well in the regular season holds much less weight than having a couple national titles in our trophy case.

4/8/2010 2:31:00 PM

Quote :

"You say nobody cares about national titles since they happened 27 and 36 years ago. But you think people remember or care about being ranked in the top 5 for a few weeks?"

I'm saying that kids look when Sportscenter updates the rankings every Monday/Tuesday.

So it's what they SEE. They've seen Wake Forest in the top 10 in recent years. They've seen Chris Paul dominate. They've seen Tim Duncan win 4 NBA championships.

They may HEAR David Thompson's name mentioned once a year. They might seen the 1983 highlight played or mentioned a couple times during the tournament (it was actually nice to hear it a lot with Butler making their run this year).

They might not CARE that much at the time...but they are exposed to it a lot more than they are exposed to our national championships 30 years ago.

[Edited on April 8, 2010 at 2:34 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2010 2:34:20 PM

I just think nationally, if you conducted a poll of people all over the country, they would rank the Tobacco Road teams in this order:

1. UNC or Duke
3. State
4. Wake

In fact, while plenty of people have seen Duncan win a couple NBA titles, he hasn't been at Wake in like 15 years. How long til Duncan's alma mater becomes as irrelevant as the 83 title or David Thompson? High school recruits were like 3 years old when Duncan was a senior.

4/8/2010 2:36:29 PM

I see what jbrick83 is saying about recent success compared to State. They have consistently been in the top half of the conference throughout much of the past couple of seasons. They are playing at a higher level. Granted they've had more talent than us, so they are winning more games.

Their postseason play has been weak, but their overall view from a fan's standpoint has been higher than State's.

4/8/2010 2:38:55 PM

^^I'd have to disagree.

I'd say it's probably...

1) UNC or Duke
3/4) Wake or State

No way we are clear cut above Wake.

And its not even about remembering that Duncan played at Wake. It's about a kid coming and whoever is coaching Wake at the time says, "You know Tim Duncan right?? Check the jersey hanging up there...yeah, he was here for 4 years."

Who the fuck's jersey can we point to that any kid might have the slightest idea who it is?? David Thompson....maybe. Hopefully Hickson in a couple years (then again...his jersey will never be hung because he was only here for a year...but hopefully we'll at least be able to reference him).

[Edited on April 8, 2010 at 2:40 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2010 2:40:04 PM

Is Hodge up there? Was his jersey 'honored'? Kids know about him. Or they ought to at least.

4/8/2010 2:41:33 PM

They'll know about him if they followed college basketball a lot back then. But he hasn't done anything noteworthy since his days at State except for getting hot in the leg while in Denver. I love the guy...but he didn't SHIT in the NBA.

In contrast, Howard who was at Wake at relatively the same time as Hodge, had been a big player for the Mavs for years before being traded recently. He even made some noise (although bad noise) with some of his dumb comments.

More kids would know Howard than they would Hodge.

4/8/2010 2:46:05 PM

They might know Josh Howard more than they know Julius Hodge

Do they know Howard went to Wake, though? Unlikely

4/8/2010 2:50:20 PM

Holy shit...you guys aren't getting it.

10 years from now a high school junior might not know where Carmelo Anthony went. But when he goes to visit Syracuse, whoever the coach is at the time will point to the banner and then show a video of a young Melo cutting down the nets.

Then the kid will be like..."FOR REAL...I DIDN'T KNOW THAT!! CARMELO IS ONE OF THE BEST IN THE NBA, I HAD NO IDEA HE WENT TO SYRACUSE"

You see how that works???

4/8/2010 2:52:47 PM

Sidney Lowe can a take a recruit into the RBC right now, point to one side of the rafters, and say, "You see that banner? Old Spice Champions, nigga." Then he can point to the other side of the rafters and say, "You see that banner? John Wilkes Booth Champions, nigga." Then he can say, "You like this red blazer? Here, try it on."

This is the master plan for CJ Leslie's next visit to State. There's no way he doesn't sign with State after that history lesson.

4/8/2010 3:08:22 PM

ITT, a lot of assumptions and useless arguing

4/8/2010 3:43:49 PM

"Yeah man, I mean, Chris Paul is cool and all, but can he say he went to the NIT....TWICE?"

I mean, historically we're better than Wake, but CP3 is more relevant to today's NBA than anyone we can hold up and say "yeah, he was an All-Star in 1976, he went here."

Then again, that was a Skip Prosser team, so it's irrelevant unless they go out and nab an already successful coach.

4/8/2010 4:08:03 PM

^^^ ha ha good post.

Also this argument over WF vs State sucks ass. Let's get back to talking about who WF is going to hire and why. Some idiots on SFN are arguing that Brad Stevens is not a good coach.





[Edited on April 8, 2010 at 4:11 PM. Reason : 6]

4/8/2010 4:11:46 PM

Quote :

"Sidney Lowe can a take a recruit into the RBC right now, point to one side of the rafters, and say, "You see that banner? Old Spice Champions, nigga." Then he can point to the other side of the rafters and say, "You see that banner? John Wilkes Booth Champions, nigga." Then he can say, "You like this red blazer? Here, try it on.""

LOL, Roy and Coach K certainly can't match that, at least the "nigga" part

4/8/2010 4:12:48 PM

what matters is the potential to get exposure, go to the tournament, be on tv, and then get drafted high.

we need to win some before we can really say that we're the ones to come to to get that, but it starts somewhere, right?

We have a good shot at making it a few rounds into the NCAAs next year, so that will help.

4/8/2010 4:14:32 PM

jbrick, you're not helping out your chances at landing a mod position

4/8/2010 4:15:55 PM

But really guys, its about the explosive dunks!

What about the fans?

You're crazy if you don't think it's the coaches!

4/8/2010 4:16:25 PM

IT'S NATIONAL PLAYERS OF THE YEAR

4/8/2010 4:17:25 PM

ITS JACKING CONTESTED THREES LIKE MICHAEL RAPPAPORT IN THE CELEBRITY GAME

4/8/2010 4:19:21 PM

Quote :

"One of our players, arguably the best college player ever, single-handedly caused the NCAA to ban dunking"

Just to clarify, the dunking band was imposed after Lew Alcindor's sophmore year (remember freshmen couldn't play varsity ball back then) in order to slow him down and try to even things out since he was so dominant. This actually helped him develop his game though, which made him an even better all-around player. The ban wasn't removed until the year after David Thompson left.

4/8/2010 4:55:35 PM

Sid is next

4/8/2010 5:03:14 PM

Hewitt would be fired if he didn't have a bulletproof contract (how bizarre is it that he has been on the job longer than anyone but K or Gary?). Only 7 coaches are tenured longer than Sid in their current job:

1) K
2) Sweaty Gary
3) Paul Hewitt
4) Leonard Hamilton
5) Huckleberry
6) Seth Greenberg
7) Frank Haith

8) Sidney Lowe

[Less]
9) Tony Bennett
10) Steve Donahue
11) TBD
12) TBD


Next year is the year for Sidney to show what he has with his own players. The coaches ahead of him are legends/likely hall of famers (K, Gary, Roy), clearly more successful (Greenberg), untouchable (Hewitt), or at schools that don't notice what is happening in basketball (Haith, Hamilton).

4/8/2010 5:18:51 PM

Quote :

"Sidney Lowe can a take a recruit into the RBC right now, point to one side of the rafters, and say, "You see that banner? Old Spice Champions, nigga." Then he can point to the other side of the rafters and say, "You see that banner? John Wilkes Booth Champions, nigga." Then he can say, "You like this red blazer? Here, try it on.""

This and a holographic projection of Jimmy V (ala Disney World's Haunted Mansion) would surely garner 5* prospects.

10/10 to whoever wrote that.

4/8/2010 5:33:47 PM

Hewitt's contract as posted in the other thread BOGGLES THE MIND

4/8/2010 5:35:02 PM

Is Hewitt still riding the coattails of that national title appearance?

4/8/2010 5:40:11 PM

I assume this is real

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12695201/Paul-Hewitt-Contract-Georgia-Tech-basketball

wtf GT

4/8/2010 5:48:14 PM

Wow, good find!

4/8/2010 5:53:11 PM

Quote :

"10 years from now a high school junior might not know where Carmelo Anthony went. But when he goes to visit Syracuse, whoever the coach is at the time will point to the banner and then show a video of a young Melo cutting down the nets. Then the kid will be like..."FOR REAL...I DIDN'T KNOW THAT!! CARMELO IS ONE OF THE BEST IN THE NBA, I HAD NO IDEA HE WENT TO SYRACUSE""

no i know exactly what youre saying there. and that works with CP3. I dont think Howard is relevant enough for it to matter and Duncan is old as shit and has no personality. Once he retires that wont do much for them.

At least for now, our coach can talk about his NBA ties and point to a banner he won while showing them around our big ass stadium. That pitch isnt what Kentucky or UNC have but it aint bad. If you want to make it sound like shit then sure, it's easy to point out the fact that we haven't done a damn thing in 20 years. Wake has a dude who punches people in the balls, a bunch of first weekend exits and some tie-dye shirts. Sounds exciting

All you really need to get recruits is street cred, cash and what they want out of their basketball career (ie somewhere on the line of get to the NBA or win in college). Black coach = instant street cred. Cash? Well, I doubt Wake is going to be paying off recruits more than us, at least going forward. Bball career? Well that depends on what we do next year and what Wake's new coach does.

4/8/2010 7:22:09 PM

Quote :

"or at schools that don't notice what is happening in basketball (Haith, Hamilton)."

I lol'd.

4/9/2010 12:16:11 PM

Quote :

"Black coach = instant street cred."

how much do you think this really factors into a young black elite athlete?

That's not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious because I have no frame of reference to know. I can make assumptions based on perception but we all know what that's worth.

4/9/2010 1:00:08 PM