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I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

7/18/2010 9:22:46 PM

Just got back, def a must see.

Spoiler












Been going back and forth with people I saw it with.. but I thought at the end it was def. still a dream and his wife was right. I thought it was important that Cobb's little item to let him know if he was in the real world wasn't originally his item but his wife's. The other guy wouldn't even let the girl touch his dice, but Cobb had been using the top so he couldn't be sure it was completely unique and thus a true indicator of if he was in a dream or out. Maybe reading to far into that detail but that part stuck with me and is the reason I think he was still dreaming.







End Spoiler.

7/18/2010 10:01:13 PM

spoiler



the thing with the top is that we saw it topple when he woke up from that dream that the chemist put him under, in the room with all the other people who came in to dream.

7/18/2010 10:06:10 PM

Didn't read the whole thread, but my girlfriend's questions/comments were [SPOILER]





(like the spaces actually help)





1. How long was Cobb actually away? It's not clear that his kids actually aged. It couldn't have been very long if they didn't change appearance from his memories to the actual end.
2. And related: they were wearing the same clothes at the end that they had in all the memories/dream sequences.













sorry if all that's been mentioned before and [END SPOILERS]

7/18/2010 10:06:31 PM

Here is the only thing that matters about the ending:

It doesn't matter whether it's a dream. Cobb decided to walk away from his totem. He doesn't care whether it's a dream. So why should we?

[Edited on July 18, 2010 at 10:09 PM. Reason : Believe that.]

7/18/2010 10:09:00 PM

^very interesting point

7/18/2010 10:14:26 PM

the whole concept of the totem only seemed to concern cobb

JGL and ellen page never used their totems

chemist, british guy and wantanabe didn't have totems

and why is the totem any different than anything else...you could easily dream that your totem is anything you want it to be at the time. why does a totem defy dream rules?

[Edited on July 18, 2010 at 10:42 PM. Reason : who says a top can't topple in a dream?]

7/18/2010 10:29:08 PM

good movie.

i kept thinking "oh shit it's shinzon!" every time that dude was on screen though.

7/18/2010 10:46:56 PM

^^ The idea for the totem was that if you were in a dream, the totem would be something architect/forger they couldn't recreate perfectly -- that was the whole point of the "it should be something you know the exact weight and feel of" type conversation was about. While not using a totem, per se, the Asian guy was able to very quickly tell he was in a dream by feeling the carpet he was knocked onto.

The idea of it never toppling is because, if it is a dream, it's something you can control (like how Eames can pull an RPG out of the air). In reality, the top could never spin infinitely, so you know it's not a dream. In the dream, you can make the top spin infinitely.

You don't see any of the others use totems because they're very secure as far as whether they're in a dream and whether they're in reality. Cobb is the only one struggling, so he's obviously going to be the only one constantly turning to it for validation.

[Edited on July 18, 2010 at 11:06 PM. Reason : .]

7/18/2010 11:05:18 PM

^^^
We didn't see them use the totem per se, but in my opinion I think they hold weight to the story. You could argue that anything could not be real (or pertinent) based on the concept of the movie alone, so I see why you bring that up. The fact that JGL shows his, and reflects the importance by not letting her hold it along with the fact that they show her make hers and take his advice reinforces that strongly. I guess that is still an assumption though...

Another thing that is sticking with me is how great they mixed in the time differential between the levels...feasibly you could live multiple life times while your body was in a coma, or maybe just a long full night of sleep. I think most people can relate to a nightmare where you wake up exhausted in the morning from running around in your head all night. Times that by a 30 years in a deeper level dream. I was impressed by how well they conveyed that concept into a 2 and a half hour movie...can't stop thinking about Mol being 1 layer above him, does that mean he would stay in this until he dies? And then wake up at the same time as her? Isn't that essentially what happened with him his wife and the train, or with 80 year old Saito and normal Cobb..they woke up at the same time but he had obviously been in limbo of sorts much longer...Am I overthinking this? He woke up with Saito and all the rest of them, right?

[Edited on July 18, 2010 at 11:20 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 18, 2010 at 11:23 PM. Reason : 'per se' lol]

7/18/2010 11:20:08 PM

Quote :

"In reality, the top could never spin infinitely, so you know it's not a dream. In the dream, you can make the top spin infinitely."

in the dream, you can make the top not spin

in the dream, you can make the dice and the chess piece weigh as much as they do in reality

in the dream, you can do anything but bad guys with guns will always come to kill you and a train will come out of nowhere just because

7/18/2010 11:49:27 PM

Quote :

"In reality, the top could never spin infinitely, so you know it's not a dream. In the dream, you can make the top spin infinitely."

So leonardo dicaprio telling us that the top falling means it's reality makes it true?

You're just going to straight up believe what he tells us?

7/19/2010 2:26:10 AM

You could make up your totem in a dream to begin with and think that that's reality and not a dream. Then when you got back to reality it might not work the same as in your dream and you'd be fucked

7/19/2010 7:39:04 AM

I love when CharlieEFH posts in movie threads, because it's like watching someone move through the logic they were supposed to go through in the movie.

Only in slow motion.

7/19/2010 8:38:43 AM

^lol

7/19/2010 9:45:03 AM

I thought the whole point of the totem was so that SOMEONE ELSE couldn't trick you into thinking you were in the real world. I don't think the totem has any benefit when you are in your own dream state. (aside from possibly the spinning top, but the chess piece and dice don't seem like they could help you in your own dream)

7/19/2010 9:59:46 AM

Spoiler Questions ....





Did some more thinking, and next thing I thought about was "the kick." So when the whole group was in the layer of dreams they had to simultaneously kick and then ride it out all 3 layers of the dream. When Cobb was with his wife they were in the 3rd layer of dreams(the place where seconds equaled years or whatever) and that is where he put his head on the train track with her. Wouldn't that have just kicked him up to the next dream level, and not all the way back to the real world? Or are we to assume that sometimes the kick can bring you back all levels and other times just a single level?

7/19/2010 10:57:42 AM

Spoilers....
















^Yeah. I think that was my main question/gripe. It also bothered me when Cobb and Saito came back on the plane. Because they missed the synchronized "kicks" that everyone else had to be a part of. Unless, because they were in "limbo", there were different rules that I missed that would allow them to "wake up" (probably something that's already been covered in this thread, I've just missed it as well).

7/19/2010 11:04:32 AM

spoilers..









the sedative wore off, but since seito was in limbo, he aged so much in the 10 hour time frame of the real world since time compounds itself for each layer you go down. since the sedative finally wore off, they were able to kill themselves to come back to reality. Supposedly Cobb and Seito are in linked dream worlds, and since Seito dies previous to Cobb's entrance to the limbo world, he has already aged so many years, so Cobb searches for him since they are on the same level already (level 4), thats why seito is old and cobb is not.

[Edited on July 19, 2010 at 11:21 AM. Reason : .]

7/19/2010 11:20:12 AM

spoilers

Quote :

"http://halphillips.tumblr.com/post/822919795/inception"

i agree with most of this

there are many more clues to suggest that the inception was on Cobb & not fisher
-the train on level 2 was from Cobb's dream w/ his wife therefore suggesting they were in Cobbs subconscious and not fisher's, that would also mean the gunmen are Cobb's defense mechanisms
-Cobb says he can trick fisher to break into his own mind by making him think he is going into the mind of someone else, which means this trick can be done on Cobb as well
-Cobb trusts Ariadne cause he sought her out but that is the same trick that Cobb tries on fisher in order to gain his trust. Cobb sought Ariadne cause he was placed into a position where his builder was taken away and he had a big job, this was all done by the saito's character, suggesting it was all part of a larger plan
-Cobb was impressed with Ariadne's mastery of the dream world, which suggests she may be better than him and able to pull off an inception on Cobb

- the scene i cant figure out is the one in the mombasa dream room where Cobb's totem falls over, that must have been a major point in the movie, but i cant exactly figure out how.
---it could be the point at which the team started the journey, and everything after was a dream




end spoilers

7/19/2010 1:04:13 PM

pay me my money you fucking menstrual smear

[Edited on July 19, 2010 at 1:09 PM. Reason : https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=MFKXAZKPJ4RBW]

7/19/2010 1:09:21 PM

Spoilers**********





Scenarios I've thought of:

- The entire thing was in Cobb's mind and his wife was right with having to jump to get back up another level of their dreams to their real lives.

- It started out in reality then went into the dreams and then Cobb/Saito were back in reality at the end.

- It started out in reality then went into the dreams and then when Cobb/Saito both went into limbo they got stuck in their dreams and the slowing top at the end signified it didn't really matter to Cobb whether he was in reality or his dreams anymore.

- The Inception is being performed on Cobb by someone like Ariadne and the entire thing was trying to help Cobb get over Mol's death.


What sucks is that there is evidence to a pretty much any of these scenarios. I'm hoping the DVD holds some evidence to something more certain.





Spoilers**********

[Edited on July 19, 2010 at 1:42 PM. Reason : TBDV]

7/19/2010 1:17:31 PM

anyone still completely stumped by the movie, here are a couple links that will help you understand. Comes from an article via usatoday.com. Major spoilers here so do not read unless you've seen the movie already.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/An-Illustrated-Guide-To-The-5-Levels-Of-Inception-19643.html

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Inception-Explained-Unraveling-The-Dream-Within-The-Dream-19615.html

7/19/2010 1:47:27 PM

A+ would watch again

7/19/2010 7:38:42 PM

Quote :

"and why is the totem any different than anything else...you could easily dream that your totem is anything you want it to be at the time. why does a totem defy dream rules?"

you kids need to take some anthropology classes... Dr. Case would be ashamed.

7/19/2010 10:50:42 PM

Vanilla Sky + Matrix = Inception

7/19/2010 11:42:30 PM

so good... now on the list of best movies I've seen

oh and as far as the totem goes, and the others not using theirs:

Ellan Page's character was playing with hers on the plane at the very end.. not sure if that matters or not, but she still used it in a sense

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 9:47 AM. Reason : .]

7/20/2010 9:44:57 AM

mind = blown

7/20/2010 10:31:55 AM

going to see this tonight. stoked.

7/20/2010 10:36:06 AM

Saw it last night. Made the mistake of doing hydrocodone prior. Feel like that cheapened the experience.



Also, I kind it kind of strange that in his whole career, Leo has never done a single comedy. Most "serious" actors at least try one or two. But nothing for him. Maybe he's just not a very funny guy?

7/20/2010 10:41:33 AM

I haven't seen it in a while but Catch me if You Can had a few scenes in it that were kinda funny.

7/20/2010 10:46:26 AM

Yeah, so did Se7en

Doesn't make it a comedy

7/20/2010 10:50:22 AM

^^What's Eating Gilbert Grape wasn't a comedy???

7/20/2010 10:50:56 AM

Dude was on Growing Pains.

I think he's paid his dues.

7/20/2010 10:55:25 AM

I'm just saying

Dude is serious all the time

Him and Denzel

7/20/2010 10:58:48 AM

I can't imagine him being that funny. There are just some actors that don't seem to have that humor streak in them.

Russel Crowe ever made a comedy?? Serious question, because I don't know.

7/20/2010 11:00:01 AM

A Good Year

[Edited on July 20, 2010 at 11:01 AM. Reason : and Mystery Alaska is pretty light hearted in comarison to his other work]

7/20/2010 11:00:50 AM

Fightin' Around the World

7/20/2010 11:02:32 AM

^^Never seen Mystery Alaska, but it's at least labeled a comedy.

A Good Year was definitely not a comedy.

7/20/2010 11:08:39 AM

At least Russell Crowe and Denzel smile from time to time

Leo hardly even does

Mean mugging like Tony Almeida

7/20/2010 11:13:15 AM

he smiled in Titanic!

7/20/2010 11:16:29 AM

He was looking at tits

Thats an exception

7/20/2010 11:17:33 AM

he smiled a lot in gilbert grape. but he was also playing a retard. so yeah, i dunno. i don't care if he's been in a comedy or not as long as his serious roles continue to be awesome.

7/20/2010 11:45:18 AM

Yeah, he's in my top 5 along with Ed Norton, Denzel, Crowe and Damon

Rarely if ever produces a dud

7/20/2010 11:48:48 AM

did you enjoy Pelham 1,2,3? I chalk that one being a dud up to Travolta more than I do Denzel though.

7/20/2010 11:50:47 AM

I, too, heart DiCaprio

Especially in Gangs of New York

7/20/2010 11:51:16 AM

Pelham was garbage, and Book of Eli was average at best

Maybe he's going into a late-career funk, a la Deniro during the 15 minutes/City By the Sea/Godsend/Hide and Seek phase

7/20/2010 11:54:48 AM

Also, Tom Hardy bulked the fuck up.

7/20/2010 2:12:16 PM

After thinking about it a few days later, I'm convinced Cobb is dreaming and that he's being incepted on.

7/20/2010 4:42:09 PM

Quote :

"BEING INCEPTED ON"

7/20/2010 5:16:48 PM