[Edited on August 8, 2010 at 5:03 PM. Reason : this is the lounge. tell racist jokes elsewhere -qfred]

8/5/2010 12:52:42 PM

goddamn you are a moron.

8/5/2010 12:56:31 PM

lol

8/5/2010 2:43:59 PM

now that

was reckless

8/5/2010 2:45:48 PM

Quote :

"goddamn you are a moron."

8/5/2010 2:51:10 PM

It was a river you dumbass.

8/5/2010 2:53:04 PM

^AHA

8/5/2010 3:19:10 PM

a lake can be riverine seasonally


a lake can be fed by a submerged river


so lulz still abound

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 4:00 PM. Reason : d]

8/5/2010 3:59:55 PM

Quote :

"My comment about the ubiquitousness of water was not that people should teach themselves to swim, it's that parents have less of an excuse not to teach their children to swim."

The excuse is pretty airtight when the parents themselves don't know how to swim. I don't know how to play piano so I don't give lessons.

8/5/2010 5:54:52 PM

Quote :

"a lake can be riverine seasonally a lake can be fed by a submerged river so lulz still abound "

SO MUCH TO LAUGH ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8/5/2010 5:55:53 PM

Its fucked up that this happened, however its morbidly funny.

8/5/2010 5:59:52 PM

Quote :

"The excuse is pretty airtight when the parents themselves don't know how to swim. I don't know how to play piano so I don't give lessons."

Maybe thats why so many black kids die from not knowing the piano. It's like they never even saw Ray.

8/5/2010 7:40:24 PM

Quote :

"I taught a semi-pro runner and she was able to float, even though she was all muscle"

elite female athletes are around 15% bodyfat with lighter bone density and muscle density than males. 15% bodyfat on a guy is a floatation device.

8/6/2010 12:05:15 AM

i cant float. maybe i'm doing it wrong. tell me what to do and ill go try anything you suggest at the pool tomorrow.

8/6/2010 12:55:33 AM

Fill lungs with air, lay back, be still.
If you don't float then you don't float.
You'll probably float some in which case you have to test your limits of breathing to see how much air you can let out of your lungs without your face submerging.

8/6/2010 1:03:34 AM

Your buoyancy point should be in your chest (lungs). Lean on your chest, keep your hips up. These concepts should be the fundamentals whether you're face up or face down. For some people, face down tends to be easier.

I think people try to relax too much and let their legs sink. If you let your hips drop and legs plunge downward, you're going to be dragged down with it.

8/6/2010 1:07:47 AM

*i haven't read this whole thread*


I started to read the article and got as far as

Quote :

"SHREVEPORT, La"

and no longer felt surprised or compelled to understand the reasoning

[Edited on August 6, 2010 at 1:33 AM. Reason : meh]

8/6/2010 1:27:31 AM

Fill lungs with air, lay back, be still.
If you don't float then you don't float.

You'll probably float some in which case
you have to test your limits of breathing
to see how much air you can let out of your lungs
without your face submerging.

Fill lungs with air, lay back, be still.
If you don't float then you don't float.

8/6/2010 3:21:56 AM

they should use the boies for the next taping of the Colony

8/6/2010 9:50:44 AM

Quote :

"It strikes me as incredibly reckless to take your kids who can't swim to go swimming "

8/6/2010 12:13:50 PM

Quote :

"I think people try to relax too much and let their legs sink. If you let your hips drop and legs plunge downward, you're going to be dragged down with it. "

if your legs are denser than water, then they will sink. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with whether or not you relax or not. If the combined density of your lower body and upper body is denser than water, then your legs will drag you down regardless of where you head and chest is positioned. I don't understand why this is so complicated for some of you to understand.



[Edited on August 6, 2010 at 2:01 PM. Reason : muscle is denser than water, fat is not. Fat and air in your lungs make you float, not body position]

8/6/2010 1:59:56 PM

Quote :

"[Edited on August 6, 2010 at 2:01 PM. Reason : muscle is denser than water, fat is not. Fat and air in your lungs make you float, not body position]"

While I agree that body position doesn't "make your float", it does have a lot to do with floating. It is MUCH easier to maintain your position in the water column (or float at the surface) if you are laid out as flat as possible. Going vertical in the water makes floating more difficult, and changing depth (sinking or rising) much easier.

The more surface area of your body you can present to the water, the easier it is to maintain a specific depth (or float at the surface, as the case may be).

[Edited on August 6, 2010 at 3:01 PM. Reason : ]

8/6/2010 3:00:49 PM

I can't swim. Also can't float.

I also used to be terrified of the water. Now I just avoid any water that I can't comfortably stand in.

It's safer that way.

8/6/2010 3:07:56 PM

Quote :

"While I agree that body position doesn't "make your float", it does have a lot to do with floating. It is MUCH easier to maintain your position in the water column (or float at the surface) if you are laid out as flat as possible. Going vertical in the water makes floating more difficult, and changing depth (sinking or rising) much easier. The more surface area of your body you can present to the water, the easier it is to maintain a specific depth (or float at the surface, as the case may be)."

I have 3% body fat. I am certain my bone mineral density as a runner is much higher than the average person. I can float. It's this concept that CharlesHF and that I was trying to convey.

SgtMaj Thomas was our Assistant Marine Officer Instructor at NC State, at the time he was a GySgt. He's as big as you eleusis and as an African-American his bones are predisposed to be denser than your bones. I'm certain he would have to be able to grasp certain concepts such as floating to pass Dive School to become Force Recon.

[Edited on August 6, 2010 at 3:48 PM. Reason : .]

8/6/2010 3:48:05 PM

why isn't the NAACP protesting, holding vigils and calling that river a racist?

8/6/2010 4:54:37 PM

you don't have to float to pass dive school; you only have to be capable of treading water for very long periods of time. You people must think submarines work by magic if you can't understand that density is what affects whether or not something floats.

bodyfat % is only a portion of what determines density. total muscle mass, bone density, lung capacity play a larger role in determining whether or not you float. You can be a runner with 5% bodyfat, great lung capacity, and very little muscle in relation to the size of your frame and other organs. You don't have 3% bodyfat though, or else you'd be dead. But that's a topic for another thread.

Body position has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a person is capable of floating or not. It may affect how comfortable a person is with floating for long periods of time, and a person in a vertical position will sink faster than a person on their back because there is less surface area. However, a person that is denser than water will ultimately sink even if they are flat on their back and aren't treading water. I used to lie flat on my back and sink to the bottom of the pool just to see how long I could hold my breath, so I know it's possible.

8/6/2010 7:59:45 PM

Quote :

"you don't have to float to pass dive school"

You actually have to do a five minute prone back float.

Quote :

"You don't have 3% bodyfat though, or else you'd be dead."

When I taper for races, I'll have 3% +/- 1-3% (DXA), three percent is the threshold for essential body fat. During my training cycles, I'll go through multiple rounds of physiological tests at human performance labs. Currently, Vandy's HPL is where I get most of my work-ups done.

Quote :

"Body position has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a person is capable of floating or not."

It has a lot to do with body position. Archimedes' Principle, the more volume of water you displace creates upthrust to the mass displacing the water. You're not going to displace nearly as much water if you're upright.

body weight < weight of water displaced = buoyant.

Is it possible that you simply cannot float? Sure if you are unable to displace enough water. I just want to clarify that body position does impact how much you displace.

8/6/2010 9:53:59 PM

Quote :

"I'd imagine that most public universities offer swimming classes for beginners. I know NCSU does - several of my frat brothers signed up for the class and pretended they didn't know how to swim. T"

Are you sure? Last I checked, all NCSU’s swimming classes had swimming ability as a pre-req

8/6/2010 10:06:55 PM

your body has the same volume regardless of if you are vertical or horizontal. Archimedes didn't set the crown in the tub one way to displace water and then turn it on its side to figure out its horizontal volume. If you would think about it for 5 seconds you would realize just how dumb what you just said is.

I can "float" on my back if I use gentle leg and arm motions to keep me above water. it's not really a float though, since I'm having to actively keep myself afloat through propulsion means.

3% plus or minus 1-3% sounds like you are more around 6%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_percentage

Quote :

"The leanest athletes typically compete at levels of about 6-13% for men or 14-20% for women. Bodybuilders may compete at ranges even lower than these levels. Certified personal trainers will suggest to male bodybuilders that they aim for a body fat percentage between 2–4% by contest time. However it is unclear that such levels are ever actually attained since (a) the means to measure such levels are, as noted below, lacking in principle, and (b) 3% is generally considered a physiological minimum for human males."

8/6/2010 10:19:28 PM

Quote :

"SgtMaj Thomas was our Assistant Marine Officer Instructor at NC State, at the time he was a GySgt. "

[image]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:wKAoBlg_r0ce3M:http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u262/micMares/bad-motherfucker.gif&t=1[/image]

8/6/2010 10:54:17 PM

The amount of water your body displaces will be equal if you are vertical in the water, or horizontal.

The real issue is the amount of surface area your body is presenting to the direction of movement. Even someone who "always sinks" will sink much slower if they're horizontal rather than vertical in the water.

When I am diving I can be positively buoyant, neutrally buoyant, or negatively buoyant..so take that out of the equation -- assume I am 'neutrally buoyant' (which is actually a moving target with every breath I take but that's another story). I want to be as horizontal and flat as possible -- this allows for efficiency of movement horizontally as I kick, and helps maintain depth by presenting the maximum amount of surface area to the vertical direction of movement.



Without my dive gear, I'm about neutral to slightly positive with a full breath of air, but sink quickly if I exhale all my air at once (and if I'm vertical ).


The best demonstration I've seen of this was part of the scuba courses here at NCSU. They take a dive table (a small flat piece of plastic maybe 6"x6") and place it in the water, flat. It lazily sinks down to the bottom, slowly swaying back and forth -- probably takes 20+ seconds. They take a second dive table, place it vertically in the water, and it sinks within 3-4 seconds, and beats the first one to the bottom. Both exactly the same -- same buoyancy characteristics, same displacement of water, only difference is how much surface area is presented to the direction of movement.


We aren't saying that the buoyancy characteristics of the object changes based off of physical position, we're just saying that movement is impeded depending on surface area presented in the direction of movement.

Seriously, this is basic aerodynamics...just in the water.

Quote :

"Are you sure? Last I checked, all NCSU’s swimming classes had swimming ability as a pre-req"

There's a "Beginning Swimming" class for people who don't know how to swim.

[Edited on August 7, 2010 at 9:15 AM. Reason : brackets]

8/7/2010 9:13:00 AM

Quote :

"We aren't saying that the buoyancy characteristics of the object changes based off of physical position, we're just saying that movement is impeded depending on surface area presented in the direction of movement."

actually, several people have stated just that in this thread. I was the first person to mention that surface area affects how fast you sink to the bottom, and you're the first person to back me up on this. I'm thinking a lot of people didn't understand the reason why they were told by swim instructors to float on their backs and really thought it affected their bouyancy.

the term you were looking for is drag, which is basic physics - not aerodynamics.

8/7/2010 10:20:34 AM

I can swim. I'm a fattie. I've been trying for years to float and I cannot. My legs fall every time and I'm trying as hard as I can to do everything right.

Maybe I am lacking some special positioning or something. But if so, you can't say these people could just lie back and instinctively float (having no knowledge of how to swim). That's bullshit.

8/7/2010 10:50:10 AM

How did this turn from making fun of stupid people that got their kids killed by drowning and into buoyancies and bone densities?

8/7/2010 10:52:38 AM

^because everyone loves to prove how much of an expert they are on any given subject on TWW.

8/7/2010 12:14:46 PM

OK ELEUSIS YOU FUCKING WIN, OK?

8/7/2010 12:44:28 PM

Hrm, as I was writing my post I was mixing up my thoughts about drag and buoyancy. I stand corrected.

Quote :

"3% plus or minus 1-3% sounds like you are more around 6%"

No, that means it's 4 to 6%.

[Edited on August 7, 2010 at 2:24 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2010 2:22:33 PM

Quote :

"because everyone loves to prove how much of an expert they are on any given subject on TWW."

There is no question as to the winner. I wrote my thesis on negro buoyancy.

8/7/2010 6:57:37 PM

I read your thesis. You spent 10 pages explaining why the negro youths became bouyant when you took your foot off of their head.

8/8/2010 11:22:34 AM

They say that there is little advantages for professional athletes to be under 8% (males) or under 13% for women(i think). I just googled and Michael Phelps is 8%... so are you saying that he can't float?
I bet you $2 he can.

Quote :

"if your legs are denser than water, then they will sink."

This is a confusing statement. What if your legs are attached your body, say, to your pelvis/ butt region? What then?
Even if you had ridiculously low body fat %, there's still going to be fat in your major organs and bone marrow (including adipose tissue). If you learn to not bend your knees too much, then the proper positioning of your head will result in your pelvis/butt raising to the top (if not, your back is not properly arched). And with your butt comes the legs which are typically attached. Most likely what's happening is that your hips are actually going under the water (because they aren't properly positioned) which results in your feet moving closer to the bottom.

If you plan on learning correctly, you need to focus on your position. There's still hope for you.

8/9/2010 1:07:08 PM

again, i think the point is that learning to swim and float is not simple and is not universal

8/9/2010 1:14:07 PM

Quote :

"Joke on boat leads to four deaths (CNN) -- Four men died after horsing around in a boat on a southern Idaho reservoir, authorities said late Monday. The bodies of four men were found Monday evening in the American Falls Reservoir in the same area where the men had fallen into the water a day earlier, said Cpl. Leilani Morgan of the the Power County Sheriff's Department. The search began Sunday for the four boaters after authorities received a 911 call from a child on their boat, said Power County, Idaho, Sheriff Jim Jeffries. The four men were "horsing around," he said. One man was standing up in the front of the boat and another man pushed him into the water as a joke, not realizing he could not swim, he said. "There were enough vests for all four adult men to have them on. However, they did not have them on," Morgan said. The victims have been identified as 57-year-old Darrel Shappart, 26-year-old Jared Hale, his 30-year-old brother Aaron Hale and 30-year-old Stephan Verbeck, Morgan said. The men were boating on the waterway Sunday along with five children under the age of nine. The frantic 911 call triggered a search where rescuers used boats with side-scanning sonar to locate the men in the reservoir, which is about 180 miles east-southeast of Boise."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/10/idaho.boat.search/index.html?hpt=T2

8/10/2010 12:11:14 PM

I just can't figure out how pushing one man who can't swim in the water led to four people drowning.

8/10/2010 12:20:33 PM

Article doesn't make sense.

8/10/2010 12:20:56 PM

and since when has swimming become rocket science?

8/10/2010 12:21:45 PM

^^^
alcohol

8/10/2010 12:40:33 PM

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/bodies-of-4-missing-boaters-found-in-idaho/19587831:

Quote :

"The other three men jumped in to save him, but all drifted away from the boat and drowned. It's unclear whether the other three men could swim, but authorities said Monday that only one had a life jacket and was holding it in his hand instead of wearing it."

I'm guessing they couldn't swim either unless they were in some kind of hella strong current.

Quote :

"Alcohol was on the boat, but it's not yet clear whether it was involved in the incident. Jeffries said the medical examiner will do blood alcohol tests on the bodies."

Although it wouldn't surprise me if alcohol was a contributing factor in the way the whole thing played out, you can swim just fine under the influence unless you're just wasted to the point that you wouldn't be able to walk either. If they were that drunk they didn't need to be operating a boat though, so it would be a series of mistakes either way.

[Edited on August 10, 2010 at 2:13 PM. Reason : s]

8/10/2010 2:12:50 PM

from a thread in chit chat:
Why don't black Americans swim?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11172054

9/3/2010 11:39:21 AM

Quote :

"JaTavious Warner, 17, Takeitha Warner, 13, JaMarcus Warner, 14, Litrelle Stewart, 18, Latevin Stewart, 15, and LaDarius Stewart, 17, rushed to help him and each other"

Why do they name their kids like this?

9/3/2010 12:35:45 PM

To fuck with you.

9/3/2010 3:08:43 PM