im only just now catching up... i had no idea it was this bad.

11/8/2011 3:43:34 PM

don't they know my nigga [sandusky] fuckin' kidnap kids?
fuck 'em in they ass, throw 'em over the bridge

11/8/2011 3:45:18 PM

Cowards or not, telling the cops wouldn't have advanced their career, while not telling them prevented the chance of derailing it. As far as they were concerned, there's no upside to telling the cops, but a pretty drastic potential downside.

Now, this is all circumstantial, and we'd all like to believe that if we walked into a shower and saw a sixty five year old man sodomizing a ten year old boy, we'd not only call the cops, but intervene with a Goldberg spear and suplex. But I don't think its right to rake Mcqueary over the coals here. He was 28 and didn't have a lot of weight within the organization. Any one of the higher ups in Happy Valley could've ended his career with one phone call, and the mere threat of that was probably enough to make him keep relatively quiet for the past nine years.

11/8/2011 3:45:41 PM

Did Joepa know the allegations were true?

If he did then he should have fired the guy immediately and the fact that he didn't means Joepa should be fired now.

If he didn't then he had a responsibility to make sure the right people knew and that there was an investigation. Child rape is a serious matter but you can't just immediately start flinging public accusations and firing people for supposed misconduct because child rape is a serious matter. If you're accused of child molestation you're pretty much done with your career, true or not.

11/8/2011 3:46:51 PM

Downside: might lose job, although whistle lowers are legally protected.

Upside: might have prevented more children from being goddam raped.

Cowards. I hope their sleep is full of nightmares.

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 3:50 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2011 3:50:35 PM

the graduate assistant is still on the coaching staff.

11/8/2011 3:52:20 PM

unbelievable the beating college football has taken in just one year, I mean I think most people thought miami was finally the peak and end of it but I don't think anyone saw this coming along, wow, what's next some murder or mafia connection at a program?

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 4:00 PM. Reason : k]

11/8/2011 3:55:54 PM

if paterno did know, he should be charged with the failure to report suspected abuse as well

the only person who KNEW what went on was the grad assistant

until we know who was told what, i don't know how the reaction can be "kill em all" like this is fucking GOLO, where anything uncertain is a huge coverup and the solution is that everyone connected to a possible crime should be immediately executed, and possibly their family as well, especially the husband, if one exists.

SHOOT EM ALL AND SEND THEIR FAMILY A BILL FOR THE BULLET AND IF'N OBAMA WERENT NEVER ELECTED THESE CROOKS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY THATS ALL I GOT TO SAY ABOUT THAT GOD BLESS

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 4:01 PM. Reason : -]

11/8/2011 3:56:37 PM

what the hell is wrong with some people? what a sick, sick human.

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 3:57 PM. Reason : ^haha, golo]

11/8/2011 3:56:50 PM

Quote :

"Paterno called Curley and Schultz. Schultz heads the campus police, and both Curley and Schultz lied to everyone. "

Then Paterno should have called the REAL police afterwards.

Paterno was either part of the cover up, knew about it, or should have known about it. He's not a fucking idiot.

11/8/2011 4:00:47 PM

Campus police are real police. They're the ones who investigated Sandusky in 1998 (along with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare), where Sandusky admitted to being naked in a shower with an 11 year old. The county DA refused to prosecute.

11/8/2011 4:05:31 PM

Quote :

"Now, this is all circumstantial, and we'd all like to believe that if we walked into a shower and saw a sixty five year old man sodomizing a ten year old boy, we'd not only call the cops, but intervene with a Goldberg spear and suplex. But I don't think its right to rake Mcqueary over the coals here. He was 28 and didn't have a lot of weight within the organization. Any one of the higher ups in Happy Valley could've ended his career with one phone call, and the mere threat of that was probably enough to make him keep relatively quiet for the past nine years."

I'm going to assume you're trolling since I don't believe anyone can be this obtuse.

11/8/2011 4:06:15 PM

^ If McQueary reported Sandusky to the cops and since he was a graduate assistant, it's likely to me he'd never get a paying job in college football again because he'd have a reputation of being a snitch. Yes, I agree, that is f*cked up thinking, but look at the culture of college football over the past few years, schools don't hire snitches, they hire coaches that can win while also looking the other way on alleged oversights.

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 4:18 PM. Reason : /]

11/8/2011 4:17:24 PM

I don't think there's such a thing as a snitch when it comes to raping 10 year-olds

11/8/2011 4:18:15 PM

had it gone straight to the cops it probably would have been swept under the rug in some other way. much like the 98 case

11/8/2011 4:19:27 PM

^^^

so you're saying we should be sympathetic to his plight? if not, what are you saying?

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 4:20 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2011 4:20:07 PM

Of course Mcqueary is still on the staff. If you've ever seen a Penn State game in the last decade, you can't miss that ginger fuck on the sidelines.

My point was, and still is, that unless the benefits of telling the cops outweighed the potential ramifications of him doing so, there was no clear reason for him to tell them. Yes, it was morally reprehensible. Yes, it would never happen today in the twitter/facebook/instant communication world. Yes, he probably hasn't had a decent night's sleep in nine years. But he still has a job, and has been rumored to be JoePa's successor on numerous occasions. Of course, that will never happen now, and his future career will inevitably be pock marked by "Aren't you the guy that caught Sandusky banging that kid?" questions, but given the information he had at the time, it wasn't hard to understand his thought process.

11/8/2011 4:26:32 PM

Quote :

"so you're saying we should be sympathetic to his plight? if not, what are you saying?"

I'm not sympathetic to him at all, just saying that whistleblowing either in the public or private arena it gets held against you for future employment. McQueary and Paterno sitting on the information is a result of the current mindset that's been showcased repeatedly the past few years in college sports where everyone looks the other way on wrongdoing or follow the letter of the law if not the intent (see UNC, Auburn with Cam Newton, Tressel at Ohio State). Paterno and McQueary are going to be exonerated for informing a superior/the campus police of it, they followed the letter of the law, but they didn't do everything they should have to stop these actions from continuing to take place, they instead followed the college sports culture of covering it up/not taking further action on Sandusky because if put into public it'd harm themselves and the university.

11/8/2011 4:28:20 PM

i can't get the image of this big oaf cornholing a young boy in a locker room shower out of my head.

11/8/2011 4:28:59 PM

Quote :

"I don't think there's such a thing as a snitch when it comes to raping 10 year-olds"

beyond supportive of an ernie comment for once...

there is NO such thing in that case. looking the other way for paying players? drugs? sure ill take that argument then.

11/8/2011 4:35:50 PM

Quote :

"Paterno and McQueary are going to be exonerated for informing a superior/the campus police of it, they followed the letter of the law, but they didn't do everything they should have to stop these actions from continuing to take place"

Other than talking to the police, what do you think Paterno and McQueary should have done?

11/8/2011 4:43:01 PM

fire the rapist probably

11/8/2011 4:53:13 PM

He retired in 1998.

11/8/2011 4:54:13 PM

McQueary walked in on the guy having anal sex with a 10 year old boy.

Step 1: call police
Step 2: Paterno should have fired him immediately. not the quasi-retired, maintain-an-office and have full run of the facilities. Ban the motherfucker from campus permanently and immediately.

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2011 4:54:44 PM

Paterno could have fired him? (exactly, not retire... publically fire the guy w/ no sympathy for his "privacy")

And for some reason, i feel that the real police should be more legit than the campus police. Is that not the case?

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 4:57 PM. Reason : ]

11/8/2011 4:55:10 PM

Paterno is the top of the food chain at Penn State. He can pretty much dictate whatever he wants.

Well, he could before today.

11/8/2011 4:56:48 PM

notify the charity from which he wrangled his boy toys?

11/8/2011 4:56:56 PM

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mothers_of_two_of_jerry_sandus.html

11/8/2011 4:57:11 PM

I agree that McQueary should have called the police immediately.

Sandusky did not work for Paterno in 2002. He was a retired state employee.

Campus police are just as real as non-campus police.

Quote :

"notify the charity from which he wrangled his boy toys?"

Curley and Schultz told both McQueary and the school President that the charity had been informed and Sandusky was banned from the football facilities.

11/8/2011 4:59:23 PM

11/8/2011 5:04:52 PM

Quote :

"Campus police are just as real as non-campus police."

well, we all know that they treat the athletes more favorably.

(or some do at some schools, at least. i'm sure bryan and friends don't think so. wasn't that an off-duty campus police?)

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 5:06 PM. Reason : ]

11/8/2011 5:04:56 PM

Campus police weren't particularly favorable to Sandusky when they, along with the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare, performed an investigation in 1998.

11/8/2011 5:07:53 PM

At this point it almost seems to me like they should cancel the remainder of the football season. That wouldn't be fair to the players, true, but I think this is a situation where no matter what you do, the outcome is bad. If I were an alumnus or fan of Penn State I certainly wouldn't be going to or watching any more games for a while.

11/8/2011 5:19:53 PM

who the fuck is going to believe some random grad assistant over your trusted coach of over a decade?

because it's such an out-there accusation is probably the only reason it got escalated at all

dunno why he wasn't watched like a hawk forever after that though

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 5:24 PM. Reason : so maybe I missed this, but how did this all come back out again anyway?]

11/8/2011 5:22:51 PM

Quote :

"McQueary walked in on the guy having anal sex with a 10 year old boy. Step 1: call police Step 2: Paterno should have fired him immediately. not the quasi-retired, maintain-an-office and have full run of the facilities. Ban the motherfucker from campus permanently and immediately. "

Step 1 should be 'stop the old dude from continuing to rape a kid.'

11/8/2011 5:23:31 PM

You can't cancel a season in D-1 Football. Each game is worth millions of dollars. They'll probably lose all three games, but they were probably going to lose all three games anyway, because they play better teams. The only reason they're 8-1 is because they haven't played anyone good yet.

But they should decline a bowl game invite. That would just prolong the agony.

11/8/2011 5:23:47 PM

^^

yep, you're right. I was thinking too much in context of this messageboard argument.

11/8/2011 5:46:44 PM

fucking shit man, one should be so lucky to get fired from a coaching position at penn state for reporting this.

oh my god you wouldn't even have to file a lawsuit, they'd just hand over the fucking cash.

11/8/2011 6:03:09 PM

whats the lawyers defense on this??? he was born that way?

11/8/2011 6:56:14 PM

probably that the allegations are false, duh.

11/8/2011 7:06:37 PM

Since the dude who walked in on him had no authority and JoePa only had the kid's word to go on, I'll quote my previous post about whether JoePa knew that the accusations were true or not.

Quote :

"If he did then he should have fired the guy immediately and the fact that he didn't means Joepa should be fired now. If he didn't then he had a responsibility to make sure the right people knew and that there was an investigation. Child rape is a serious matter but you can't just immediately start flinging public accusations and firing people for supposed misconduct because child rape is a serious matter. If you're accused of child molestation you're pretty much done with your career, true or not."

You're saying Paterno should have just fired the dude immediately with no investigation? Just publicly came out and said "This dude buggers little kids"?

11/8/2011 7:10:38 PM

Quote :

"had it gone straight to the cops it probably would have been swept under the rug in some other way. much like the 98 case"

exactly. If anyone called the "regular" donut-patrollers, it would have simply been transferred over to the campus donut-patrollers.

McQueary certainly should have called the cops immediately. But, when he told JoePa the next day about it, I don't begrduge Joe not calling the cops at that point. PSU policy probably provides a method for reporting crimes after the fact, and it might go through a specific person. Now, Joe could have called the cops, sure, but I wouldn't blame him if he just reported it to the person who was actually supposed to handle it. There is a value in having a specific point-man, so to speak, for this kind of thing, so there's no real fault against JoePa if he went about it that way.

As well, with hindsight bias, it's easy to say "JoePa should have kicked this guy out of the program and banned him forever." But, right now, we really don't know what JoePa was told or what he knew. For all we know, the AD could have told JoePa that everything was investigated and it turned out to be false.

Of course, at that point, I'd be questioning why the hell my grad assistant told me what he did, but then again, we don't even know what the assistant said. If a guy comes up to me and says "so and so was buttfucking a 10-year-old in the showers" and then management says "nah, nothing happened," you damned well better believe I'm gonna wanna know what the fuck actually happened. If, instead, someone tells me "hey man, i think something odd went on the other night" and leaves it at that and then management says "false alarm," I'm less likely to have my suspicions aroused.

Now, if JoePa had damned good reason to know that Sandusky was doing this kind of shit, or if the grad assistant was fairly explicit in saying what he saw, then I certainly blame him for not calling the cops when it looked like shit was cooling down and management was saying "it's ok, false alarm". I'm sure that he could get shit moving if push came to shove. And, if that shit was the case, then I'd also blame him for not getting that sleazy fuck out of the locker room and not contacting someone at the charity.

11/8/2011 7:12:42 PM

To me it sounds like some shit was pushed.

11/8/2011 7:18:16 PM

i haven't been reading most of the articles (as i imagine a lot of the commentators on here haven't), so somebody fill me in: why is all this coming out now?

and wasn't there reports of some kind of sexual misconduct reported by at least three penn st employees? shouldn't that have raised a lot of eyebrows? and didn't i read that he still had access to the athletic facilities up until recently?

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 7:23 PM. Reason : "he" being the disgusting pedo]

11/8/2011 7:22:31 PM

Read this:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

And don't worry, most of the journalists don't seem to have read much either.

To answer your questions:

1) Sandusky was caught "wrestling" his most recent victim at a high school gym.

2) There have been three prior incidents that should have resulted in something being done.

- One of his victim's mother reported him to campus police in 1998. Campus police and the Department of Public Welfare investigated, but the county DA declined to press charges.

- A janitor caught him performing oral sex on a boy. The janitor (nor anyone else on the night shift) did not report him. This was uncovered as part of the most recent investigation.

- McQueary caught him in the shower with a boy in 2002. This is the incident involving Paterno, Curley and Schultz.

3) As a result of the 2002 incident, Sandusky was not allowed in the locker room, he was prohibited from bringing youth on campus, and The Second Mile charity was informed. At least, this is what Curley and Schultz told both McQueary and the University President.

Some other things...

Sandusky retired in 1999. His access to campus facilities is based on an agreement with the school. He has not been working for Paterno, and Sandusky's benefits did not come from Paterno.

It is not clear what Sandusky and Paterno's relationship has been for the past 13 years. Sandusky didn't retire under happy circumstances--Paterno told Sandusky he'd never be head coach and Sandusky retired. It is also not clear whether or not Paterno knew about the 1998 investigation. If he did, he should probably be thrown under the bus with Curley and Schultz.

Paterno did not wait weeks to tell others about the 2002 incident. The incident happend on a Friday night, McQueary told Paterno on Saturday, and Paterno met with Curley and Schultz on Sunday. It was, however, one to two weeks before Curley and Schultz met with McQueary.

Campus police reported to Schultz. Schultz was aware of the 1998 investigation in 2002. Though campus police report to Schultz, Schultz never reported the 2002 incident to campus police.

11/8/2011 7:34:50 PM

This is going to get uglier.

11/8/2011 10:39:20 PM

Quote :

"dan_bernstein FYI: names are being x-checked w/Sandusky's Second Mile, and there are other older adult men with "curious" relationships. Only the start."

11/8/2011 10:58:36 PM

^ WOAH.

11/8/2011 11:00:45 PM

Quote :

"YahooForde Pat Forde This place feels kinetic and unsettled right now."

Quote :

"YahooForde Pat Forde Cops in riot gear. Ambulances here. Seems peaceful ... For now"

Quote :

"YahooForde Pat Forde Wow. Students marching en masse. Not sure if this is exuberance or anger. Wild scene"

Quote :

"YahooForde Pat Forde Students marching to campus. Had one tell me this was similar to spontaneous bin laden death rally -- but much bigger."

Quote :

"YahooForde Pat Forde "Joe won't go!" chant pretty quickly drowned out by White Zombie chant. Now "we are ... Penn state!" followed by alma mater."

[Edited on November 8, 2011 at 11:31 PM. Reason : more]

11/8/2011 11:24:14 PM

Apparently they're also singing Sweet Caroline.

What the hell are these kids thinking

11/8/2011 11:33:39 PM