^^GG, sir.

8/5/2012 5:21:57 PM

Quote :

"Look, when it comes down to it, the dude's personal bests are still far behind most of the sprinters in the world. So at the very least, his prostheses don't make him some super human sprinter."

Right. I've seen several people use this argument. Now let me tell you why it's complete bullshit.

So right now he's not a serious threat to win a medal. He's just out there for show/to be a good human interest piece for the 6:00 news/to provide inspiration to other people with disabilities, yadda yadda yadda. That's all fine and well.

But what if, 4 years from now, somebody figures out that if you start making his prosthetics out of carbon nanotubes* and now his blades are 40% lighter and have 55% more spring to them. All of the sudden, he is now 4 seconds under the world record time and capable of winning the gold medal without breaking a sweat. Do you still let him compete, or do you make him use "old" technology which allows him to make it to the semis, but no further? At that point, the way I see it, you're in a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. If you let him use the new technology, it wouldn't be remotely fair because it's obvious that his speed increase would be coming from advancements in technology and not from anything he did, but if you make him use the old tech, it's just telling him that he can compete, but only if he is able to run at 95% of the top speeds of the other athletes. At that point it simply becomes an issue of dialing in the technology to keep him just outside the possibility of winning the event. Which is spectacularly retarded and insulting on about 10 different levels.

*Note: I have no fucking idea if carbon nanotubes would even be practical, much less useful as a material in this instance. That's just the first thing that popped into my head. Insert your own technology advancement here if you wish.

8/5/2012 6:15:07 PM

Quote :

"It was then that the studies came out that said that there was no clear advantage over the other competitors (net advantage) and he was cleared to compete in 2012. He made it to the semis and is done now. "

Not exactly correct. The studies that were done in 2007 was to decide whether or not he fatigued at a normal rate as the other competitors after a 2 stint competition in which he did mediocre on the first stint, but in the second stint when others slowed down due to fatigue, he actually went faster. The 2007 study showed he fatigued at a lower rate than others. Then in 2008 they did it again with him by a different set of doctors, which they found that he fatigued at the same rate. So he was let back in on those results.

The tests never went into detail to as to whether or not that he has a clear advantage or not. Some other doctors/engineers/scientists in the world have been studying him independently and have found that he has a huge advantage in how long he has to keep his legs in the air, but at the expense of the force he can put down to the ground.

Overall though, the results are inconclusive as to whether he has a net advantage or not. To me though, if he couldn't run the same times or better with real legs (a hypothetical situation), then he has a net advantage. I wonder if there is a way to instead compare his performance to olympic gold medalists as to whether he can be compared to a hypothetical situation in which he had real legs and whether it was possible or not for him to achieve the same speeds/times that he now does. It's probably not possible now, but to me, that is what they need to compare him to to make a valid determination as to whether he has an advantage or not.

8/5/2012 6:33:13 PM

if you can't outrun a half-man on mini-stilts, how elite an athlete are you, really

8/5/2012 6:47:26 PM

^^^Okay, so you are saying that it is complete bullshit because in your hypothetical snowball effect it would be shitty. What I am saying is that at this point, he is performing at a level that is very high, but not at a level that is suspicious.

I am not saying that he HAS to perform at a lower level in order to be able to use them. I am okay with him winning races. I honestly hoped he would medal. However, in your situation where he gains a clear advantage due to the technology, there is obviously a problem (a 6 second 100m is pretty much impossible). I said I was okay with him competing as long as he doesn't have a clear advantage due to his prostheses. I also said that this was a good thing for the Olympics and I think it will lead to a lot more research being done into both whether he has any advantage and general research into making better prosthetic limbs. Studies in both areas are good things, and this Olympics will likely get more researchers interested in it.

^^ So you are saying that when I said that he was denied due to the original study prior to the 2008 Olympics, and then the study was done that said he didn't have a clear advantage, then he was allowed to compete in 2012... I was saying that

Quote :

"The 2007 study showed he fatigued at a lower rate than others. Then in 2008 they did it again with him by a different set of doctors, which they found that he fatigued at the same rate. So he was let back in on those results."

It's so much clearer now.

8/5/2012 7:01:38 PM

Quote :

"Okay, so you are saying that it is complete bullshit because in your hypothetical snowball effect it would be shitty."

There's nothing hypothetical about technological advancements. They will occur. There is no disputing this fact. At some point in the future advancements will happen and it will become clear (even to people like you with your head in the clouds) that the technology is providing an advantage. But by that point, it may be too late. Well, we let him compete with blades last year, might as well let him compete with the new ones this year, even though he's now outrunning everybody out there. It just sets a horrible precedent. This guy isn't able to compete with the body that he was born with, so he is using currently available technology to even the playing field. Once you start down that road, it's going to be very difficult to ever go back. All of the sudden you will have 500-lb fatties with "thyroid conditions" suing to be able to compete using motorized wheelchairs because they are unable to compete using their own two legs. Hey, it's only fair, right? That legless guy got to use technology to even the playing field, why can't everybody?

8/5/2012 7:15:26 PM

I can't believe the Katt Williams reference wasn't until page two

8/5/2012 7:19:34 PM

Quote :

"^^ So you are saying that when I said that he was denied due to the original study prior to the 2008 Olympics, and then the study was done that said he didn't have a clear advantage, then he was allowed to compete in 2012... I was saying that"

That's not at all what you said. You said the study said he didn't have a net advantage. The study made no such claim. It just said there was not an advantage (I'm not talking about a net advantage like you are) as far as fatigue goes.

8/5/2012 7:34:35 PM

^^^ You are talking about motorized aids... you know that that is a fucking idiotic argument, right? Also, they have said that the CAS ruling will apply as long as he is using his current prostheses. If he gets different ones, then they will have to revisit it and again study whether they give him a distinct advantage over runners with both legs.

Still, no one has answered why it is okay for him to compete in the Paralympics against people with one leg, when he clearly would have an advantage over them. Hell, at least the guys with two legs can move their lower legs at the same speed with relatively similar effort. The guys with one leg have to run completely differently than Pistorious or any runner with both legs.



^Okay, you're right. I said net advantage... WHICH IS THE ONLY TYPE OF ADVANTAGE THAT FUCKING MATTERS HERE. If it gave him a great advantage in swing speed of his lower leg, but even greater disadvantage in how much push he got from each step and made him slower, HE STILL DOESN'T HAVE A FUCKING ADVANTAGE.

Also, I am talking about this (http://goo.gl/Xeq3z) study (not the Brown study that only looked at oxygen consumption). Which is a point counter-point study done by a group of 7 doctors. The five doctors who conclude that there is no advantage say specifically "There is insufficient evidence to conclude that modern running specific prostheses (RSP) provide physiological or biomechanical advantages over biological legs."

I am leaving this alone now, as my original point of "There is no conclusive evidence either way and it requires more studies." has been lost and now we are arguing details of two different studies because neither of us clarified what study we were talking about. I think it's fine that he competed this year and hope that more studies are done to determine if he has an unfair advantage. I officially don't care anymore until new studies are completed and published.

8/5/2012 8:57:52 PM

Quote :

"I am leaving this alone now, as my original point of "There is no conclusive evidence either way and it requires more studies." has been lost and now we are arguing details of two different studies because neither of us clarified what study we were talking about."

You never literally said that there was no conclusive evidence either way. You fucking said this:

Quote :

"It was then that the studies came out that said that there was no clear advantage over the other competitors (net advantage) and he was cleared to compete in 2012. He made it to the semis and is done now."

At what point, up until this last post, did you fucking say that there was no conclusive evidence? You didn't. You said that studies came out that said that he has no clear net advantage, which is flat the fuck out wrong!

We're not mind readers. Say what you mean.

8/5/2012 9:05:57 PM

Quote :

"You are talking about motorized aids... you know that that is a fucking idiotic argument, right?"

Of course it is idiotic. You know what is equally idiotic? Allowing a guy with no legs to strap metal to his stumps and compete in the olympics and pretend like he's normal.

8/5/2012 9:08:17 PM

^why are you even watching the olympics?

you seem more like the toddlers and tiaras type.

8/5/2012 11:03:09 PM

Just think how fast Usain Bolt would be if he had no legs

8/5/2012 11:36:24 PM

From page 1:

Quote :

" I think that allowing technology that other competitors aren't allowed to use is an unfair situation"

Haha okay. Do you really think they don't use it because they're not allowed to, or do you think it's maybe because they have legs? Let's just say they ARE allowed to use it--no one voluntarily will.

8/6/2012 4:55:38 PM

he got swallowed up

8/6/2012 5:02:09 PM

Quote :

"Haha okay. Do you really think they don't use it because they're not allowed to, or do you think it's maybe because they have legs? Let's just say they ARE allowed to use it--no one voluntarily will."

jesus dude. take one sentence out of an entire paragraph and go all white knight.

use your minute brain for a minute and try to follow me... Lets just say there were some sort of prosthetic that could be attached to a sprinter's leg which would take pressure off of their natural leg and add in springiness and it was found people could run faster with it. Do you think they would allow that? no they wouldn't (and shouldn't)... Same with these high tech prosthetic devices... maybe they do and maybe they don't offer an advantage, but the possibility is there, so it makes the race unfair.

8/6/2012 5:16:32 PM

oh fuck, an expert:

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/08/no-advantage-to-being-an-amputee-a-defense-of-oscar-pistoriuss-prostheses/260878/

Quote :

" 'No Advantage to Being an Amputee': A Defense of Oscar Pistorius's Prostheses Some think the Olympic runner has an unfair edge over his competitors, but the man who designed his limbs says otherwise. Before Oscar Pistorius ever set foot inside London's Olympic Stadium, before he prepared for the 400-meter race by connecting two carbon fiber blades to the stumps of his legs, he had to move heaven and earth just to be allowed to compete. Pistorius, a South African sprinter who was born without fibulas and had both legs amputated just below the knee when he was 11 months old, had tried to enter the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, only to be rebuffed by track's international governing body. His prosthetic legs allegedly gave him a biomechanical advantage. Pistorius quickly appealed the ruling to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, which ruled in early 2008 that he was eligible to compete in the Olympics (Pistorius missed qualifying for Beijing by 0.7 seconds). Pistorius continued to improve his times and qualified for London, racing in the 400 meters and advancing out of the preliminary round with a season-best time of 45.44 seconds on Saturday. Though Pistorius failed to qualify for the finals in the event, he will race again later this week as a part of South Africa's 4x400-meter relay team. Pistorius is not the first amputee athlete to compete in the Olympics. Fellow South African Natalie Du Toit, who finished 16th in the 10K marathon swim in Beijing, lost her left leg below the knee in 2001. But Pistorius is the first Olympian amputee in track and field, and unlike Du Toit, he uses prosthetics. Even as the 25-year-old South African pushed his body beyond reasonable physical limits and ultimately made it to London, scientists debated whether Pistorius' Flex-Foot Cheetahs—the J-shaped carbon blades that he runs on—give him a competitive advantage over able-bodied runners. To the man who has designed Pistorius' prosthetics for more than 10 years, there is no debate. "In my opinion, there's no advantage to being an amputee," said Francois Van Der Watt, the prosthetics manager at Ossur Americas in Houston. "[The Cheetah] is not anything that's internally powered. There's no advantage that comes out of wearing it." Van Der Watt first met Pistorius when the young runner was in high school. Back then, Pistorius sprinted in his everyday prosthetic feet, which broke easily under the strain of competitive running, Van Der Watt said. The prosthetic expert began working with Pistorius to build an ideal apparatus for his weight and body type, refining the design as the sprinter rose to prominence in South Africa. Pistorius now uses the Cheetah Flex Foot, the Ossur-designed carbon blades that Olympic watchers saw on Pistorius as he sprinted around the track in London this weekend. But despite earning the nickname "Blade Runner", Pistorius is working at a severe competitive disadvantage from the moment the starting gun goes off. Because he has no ankle motion with the Cheetahs, Pistorius cannot achieve the energy gained from flexing the ankle against the starting blocks and then powering off. Of the 47 runners to finish the preliminary round of the 400 meters in London, Pistorius had the fourth-slowest reaction time at the start, no surprise given the awkward motion he must make to begin the race. "You don't have position in the blocks to get an optimum start," Van Der Watt said of running with the Cheetahs. "You actually have a position where you have to swing [your leg] to the outside to start, so you're not pushing off as fast as an able-bodied man." Once Pistorius is off the blocks, he faces two distinct obstacles: navigating the two turns of the 400-meter race without an ankle, and compensating for the relative lack of energy generated by his strides. The Cheetah works like a basic spring, compressing when it hits the ground and storing potential energy, which it then releases as kinetic energy as the blade returns to its natural position. But the spring only returns about 90 percent of the energy generated by a runner's stride, according to a study released by Ossur. An able-bodied leg and foot, on the other hand, can return as much as 240 percent. So while Pistorius' blades are lighter and quicker off the ground than the lower legs of the other runners, they don't make up for getting barely a third as much energy from every step, Van Der Watt noted. On the turns, Pistorius loses even more energy because he must turn the blades with his upper legs and core muscles, rather than changing his ankle position as other runners can. On some of his strides, only part of the blade touches the ground, which means there is less kinetic energy generated. Triathlete Sarah Reinertsen, the first woman to complete the Ironman Triathlon with a prosthetic leg, said that turning while running on prosthetics is doubly difficult because of the less-than-perfect connection between machine and human. "When you watch the slow-motion of [Pistorius] running, you can see the prosthetics are rotating," she said. "That's a counter-force that he's working against with every step. That's energy being lost right there." Some scientists continue to argue that Pistorius gains a degree of competitive advantage with the Cheetahs, a debate chronicled in a comprehensive Scientific American article. They reason that Pistorius' blades are much lighter than a human foot, which allows him to swing the blades faster and generate more force with each stride. But when the people who actually make and test the Cheetah say there is no competitive advantage for blade running over biological foot running, the naysayers' arguments lose a lot of credibility. For Reinertsen, who first completed the Ironman in 2005, the debate itself is a victory for amputee athletes. "Oscar's story is being shouted across the world because it's the Olympics," she said. "People are talking about the legs and inclusion and having that debate. It's cool that we're even having this discussion." Reinertsen woke up at 2AM on Saturday to watch Pistorius' first Olympic race live-streamed online. Though Pistorius failed to advance past the semifinals, his very presence on the track was an inspirational triumph for the human race. Step back from the scientific debate and the chattering over qualifying times, and what you have is a man with no lower legs running track in the Olympics. If that doesn't prove the old adage "anything is possible", nothing does. "It was a proud moment," Van Der Watt said of watching Pistorius' historic run. "We've been through the trials and errors, and I know how long he's been chasing the dream. I'm glad that he was able to make that dream come true.""

IBTofcoursetheguywhodesignedthemwouldsaythereisnoadvantage

8/8/2012 8:42:45 PM

i'm not doing the research or math but would he have qualified if instead of the 90% generated he had 100%

that sounds weird but figure it out

8/8/2012 8:59:07 PM

I bet Oscar Pistorius gets a lot of strange in olympic village.

8/8/2012 9:16:57 PM

cheater

8/8/2012 10:11:00 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2013/02/14/blade-runner-pistorius-reportedly-being-questioned-in-shooting-death-girlfriend/

2/14/2013 6:08:03 AM

Quote :

"It was reported that the woman may have been trying to surprise Pistorius for Valentine's Day and he thought she was an intruder breaking into his home."

guns are cool

2/14/2013 7:33:16 AM

well if he tries to escape i think we've established he will have absolutely no advantage from his prosthesis.


























































unless they shoot low!

2/14/2013 7:37:23 AM

just another gun nut causing the death of someone he loves

nothing to see here

2/14/2013 7:44:14 AM

investigation thrown off because the trajectory angle indicated a shorter shooter


...or he didnt have his legs on yet.

2/14/2013 7:50:50 AM

2/14/2013 8:01:15 AM

If I had no legs and lived in that shithole of a city, I might have a gun also

2/14/2013 8:08:46 AM

If I had no legs and lived in that shithole of a city, I might have a gun also

2/14/2013 8:35:28 AM

gun nut self defense fantasy meets reality

2/14/2013 9:06:05 AM

If there had been a CCW there they could have prevented this.

2/14/2013 9:14:31 AM

^

2/14/2013 9:22:10 AM

^^

2/14/2013 9:36:31 AM

Quote :

"It was reported [by his publicist] that the woman may have been trying to surprise Pistorius for Valentine's Day and he thought she was an intruder breaking into his home."

There had been previous domestic calls from that house and neighbors heard an argument before the gunshots. Sure. It was a V-day surprise visit

2/14/2013 9:41:11 AM

more like Oscar Pistolius, amirite?

2/14/2013 9:45:46 AM

It really has gotten to the point where I'm genuinely not sure if settledown is trolling, or legitimately retarded.

2/14/2013 9:54:15 AM

Quote :

"Steenkamp, a model who spoke out on Twitter against rape and abuse of women, was shot four times in the predawn hours in the home, in a gated community in the capital, Pretoria, police said. "Yes there are witnesses and there have also been interviews this morning," Beukes told reporters outside the gated complex where Pistorius lived. "We are talking about neighbors and people that heard things that happened earlier in the evening and when the shooting took place.""

this makes me think this was not an accident nor did he think she was an intruder. we're still missing a lot of info though.

[Edited on February 14, 2013 at 10:05 AM. Reason : ]

2/14/2013 10:04:52 AM

Quote :

"The fact that Pistorius is a high profile athlete could cripple his defense, so he really needs to step up his comments to sway public opinion. He might walk away from this scot-free, but his lawyer bills will surely cost him an arm and a leg. He'll need to bring the prosecutor to his knees. The question remains, who is going to foot the bill?"

2/14/2013 4:10:40 PM

Oh, it's a bunch of amputee puns. Neat.

2/14/2013 4:15:17 PM

are you being sarcastic? i'm stumped.

2/14/2013 4:21:12 PM

The neighbor accounts should give the prosecutor a leg up on the defense.

2/14/2013 4:24:23 PM

What a fall from grace. I wonder if he'll ever get that bounce back in his step.

I'd like to change that to: This is surprising. He always seemed to have such a bounce in his step.

[Edited on February 14, 2013 at 4:35 PM. Reason : ]

2/14/2013 4:26:02 PM

I'm not sure he has a leg to stand on for his defense.

2/14/2013 4:32:54 PM

Seeing as Reeva Steenkamp is pretty smokin' hot, which begs the question of which two other women were proposed to him in the MFK scenario?

2/14/2013 4:38:21 PM

Oh Little Tink Tink

2/14/2013 6:22:21 PM

this will surely tarnish his legacy...

2/14/2013 7:01:56 PM

This is a real ad that Nike had going for Pistorius. Needless to say it has been pulled

2/15/2013 9:42:42 AM

Anyone got a picture of the chick? I heard she was hot as fuck.

2/15/2013 9:48:54 AM

2/15/2013 10:04:54 AM

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/reeva-steenkamp-mum-model-shot-1715532

2/18/2013 11:23:51 AM

granted bail

2/22/2013 9:29:44 AM