I think the scope of spying on German citizens is worth making a fuss about

7/2/2013 3:35:55 PM

I feel like Russia was the guy's last good chance. I was really surprised that he leaked more documents and that he suggested in fairly certain terms that he would leak more. He has a much less of a sense of self-preservation than myself.

I can see somewhat how he might have seen it as a politically expedient leak. If Germany was going to take him then that could work out great. But he's made himself a political liability.

7/2/2013 8:16:06 PM

looks like the US is ordering its allies to deny airspace to Bolivian president Evo Morales because of fears that Snowden might be on board (he wasn't):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-asylum-live

7/3/2013 12:05:48 AM

Yes YES YES

7/3/2013 1:13:20 AM

Army Blocks Entire Guardian Website For Troops In Middle East And Asia

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/02/army-guardian-blocked-troops_n_3533036.html

Quote :

"The US military has now blocked access to the entire Guardian website at installations around the world, the paper reported Monday night. . . . The Army does not treat all news sites the same, though: the Washington Post, which also published stories about NSA programs, has not been blocked."

7/3/2013 9:49:20 AM

In case you didn't know, the President of Ecuador was detained in his plane while he refused to let them search it because permission to fly across airspace had been denied. Because they thought Snowden was on a plan with him.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130703/01030723701/bolivian-presidents-jet-rerouted-moscow-suspicions-snowden-could-be-board-south-american-nations-outraged-affront.shtml

Here is an account from the Argentine President:
http://gawker.com/the-argentine-presidents-riveting-account-of-tuesdays-657792469

Also, Ecuador found a bug in its London Embassy
http://news.sky.com/story/1111127/ecuador-finds-bug-in-its-london-embassy

Also, Snowden is not stateless since is passport was cancelled. Apparently cancelling passports as a way to penalize someone is against recognized international rules and the Supreme Court wrote in Trop v. Dulles that "The civilized nations of the world are in virtual unanimity that statelessness is not to be imposed as punishment for a crime.

7/3/2013 1:24:37 PM

I bet the keep following the wrong planes because of intentional misinformation by people who know they are bugged.

7/3/2013 2:29:04 PM

^^^ This has little to do with censorship: if the government was truly trying to block any access to Snowden or the reports, they would black out any website that had his name or even block out all news sites and blogs. No, this is purely bureaucratic procedure. Here's the thinking:

1. Government regulations say you can't have classified materials on an unclassified machine.
2. If classified materials get onto an unclassified computer, then bureaucratic policy requires you to go through a whole process of scrubbing it, involving lots of man-hours and stacks of paperwork.
3. The material leaked is, from a bureaucratic perspective, still classified because it never went through the declassifying process.
4. Therefore, if the actual classified material posted by the Guardian gets onto an unclassified computer, bureaucratic policy dictates you go through and scrub the machine.
5. Mid-level bureaucrat is unhappy because he loses his machine for a few hours when IT whisks it away; IT bureaucrat unhappy because of the paperwork he has to do.

This is not about censorship; a government employee can simply go to CNN, BBC or al-Jazeera. No, this is about a bureaucrat who doesn't want to go and scrub a thousand machines that may have accidentally downloaded a file that is considered "contaminated" by the bureaucratic machinery.

7/3/2013 2:47:13 PM

I get the logic, but it still seems dumb. Once the information its out there, its out there. Seems pretty self defeating.

Did they block YouTube when the collateral murder video leaked?





Anyway, back to Morales..... I can't think of a worse diplomatic decision than intentionally preventing a foreign head of state from flying back to his home country.

7/3/2013 4:53:37 PM

I assume the Army heavily filters the internet all the time, similar to any large employer. I don't think its a big deal.

7/3/2013 5:31:13 PM

Pretty stupid and rather petty I agree to block Morales' plane like that.

As for the Army, it's stupid, but I view it more as a bureaucracy that's flailing to adapt to a paradigm shift.

7/3/2013 5:59:20 PM

Quote :

"This is not about censorship; a government employee can simply go to CNN, BBC or al-Jazeera. No, this is about a bureaucrat who doesn't want to go and scrub a thousand machines that may have accidentally downloaded a file that is considered "contaminated" by the bureaucratic machinery."

True, but it sure does have the convenient side effect of censorship, lol.

7/4/2013 12:04:27 AM

No doubt, but I don't think the Guardian profited that much from a US Army readership, and again, if the Army truly were trying to run a real censorship campaign, they would have gone much, much further (think Wikileaks).

7/5/2013 2:32:54 PM

the traitor is going to wind up in a socialist country run by a dictator who is trying his damnedest to get his country lower than the 168th that they are on the global "freedom of the press" rankings

LOL

7/5/2013 9:30:50 PM

Thanks to blocking the Bolivian plane, now Snowden has multiple offers of asylum in Central and South America. South American nations are also filing a complaint with the UN for blocking the plane of a head of state.

The EU has also passed a deep investigation into US spying on EU nations.

7/6/2013 6:35:41 PM

Pretty sure countries are allowed to delegate who gets access to their airspace without the UN's approval

7/7/2013 1:15:21 AM

No. It falls under diplomatic immunity that heads of states have free airspace rights. I'd love to see someone try to detain air force one.

7/7/2013 11:23:59 AM

Haha, no it really doesn't.

7/7/2013 12:18:08 PM

bbehe is right. While commercial air travel does not need pre-approval to cross airspace because of international agreements, diplomatic and state air travel have to get permission. However this is basically a technicality and no one denies it... well at least not when the US doesn't convince them to.

7/7/2013 3:31:10 PM

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/07/us-brazil-espionage-snowden-idUSBRE9660ER20130707?feedType=RSS

spying on citizens in Brazil as well

our government blocked contracts from a Chinese firm because of concerns about spying, do you think we will start seeing anyone blocking contracts with American firms (or more likely just threatening)?

7/7/2013 9:49:42 PM

Quote :

"OEP being serious? lol, of course we don't care as much about our gov't spying on other countries. Don't be stupid."

huh? 90% of my posts on this site are serious. who have you confused me with?

anyway, why not? are humans not equal in your eyes? why are you more important than a non-american?

after reading your response and others like yours, all i can say is i pray to God that the US gov intensifies its spying on its own citizens and commits gross privacy violations all over the country on all sorts of citizens. i really hope that happens.

7/8/2013 9:59:48 PM

Your wish is our command.

7/8/2013 10:29:31 PM

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/08/us-reportedly-uses-security-agreements-to-intercept-data-from-un/?utm_medium=feed&utm_source=Feed_Classic&utm_campaign=Engadget

FCC strong arms foreign fiber operators into letting the US monitor undersea fiber directly

7/8/2013 11:09:20 PM

^^^It's obviously in the best interests of american citizens for our governments to spy on other countries. Just like it's in the best interest of Saudi citizens for it's government to spy on other countries.

Don't be naive.

7/9/2013 9:58:08 AM

Plenty of Americans are not happy with blanket spying on citizens of other countries

7/9/2013 12:08:57 PM

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/07/so-you-want-hide-nsa-your-guide-nearly-impossible/66942/

7/12/2013 3:06:21 PM

Someone posted this on FB, is this for real?

http://therebel.org/environment/666018-snowden-uncovers-shocking-truth-behind-chemtrails

It quotes snowden, but how come no one else is reporting it? Yes, I can see what kind of site it is, but still, is this documented anywhere else?

7/13/2013 8:45:27 AM

lol are you/they really that dumb?

your link sources The Internet Chronicle, which is a satire site. Their #2 article right now has the lede "Edward Snowden unveiled documents identifying God as Wilbur Mercer, a mechanic in Georgia."

the 3rd article? "The Dome of the Rock was captured by Vatican Forces and Pope Francis named Saint Snowden Messiah upon the Rock."

[Edited on July 13, 2013 at 10:51 AM. Reason : .]

7/13/2013 10:50:43 AM

Lol sorry i didn't click on the source link, even though I saw it. Was going to, but got busy with something.

Haha, thanks. The guy (conspiracy type) who posted it in FB was/is lapping it all up... gonna have to bust his wet dream.

He also said this:

Quote :

"If you are talking about the terrorist who landed their attacks on malala, that was all staged. the terrorism happening in pakistan are not necessarily done by Muslims, they are staged and USA and India is behind all of that. I don't even know why i am telling you that. the real terrorism on the other hand is the attack for example of bomb attack targeting a mosque in Tipton and I don't think this attack was done by any Muslim since no media lot been crying about it. Another example of real terrorism is attack on boston marathon. Get your head out of talibans or other organisations who pose themselves as Muslims and create havoc and what not. My friend, those aren't the real Muslims, its all propaganda and malala is the puppet used to divert all the attention while west plan their evil plots also most of the times known as 'real terrorism'."

I want to vomit on his face.

7/13/2013 10:59:33 AM

the comments on that article (the one you linked) are hilarious. people saying things like "while I believe the government controls the weather to force states to pay in to a dying economy, i don't believe this" or "snowden was on the korean plane that crashed in SFO"

i love conspiracy theorists. their mental gymnastics are the bestest

7/13/2013 11:11:56 AM

How to Be a Rogue Superpower: A Manual for the Twenty-First Century
http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175725/

7/18/2013 4:48:19 PM

Looks like the US finally figured out what to do with dissidents:

Assange is stuck in an Ecuadorian embassy, and Snowden is still stuck in a Moscow Airport:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/24/edward-snowden-moscow-airport-spy



Probably a lot cheaper to have other countries hole these dudes up in limbo, unlike that pesky Bradly Manning who has to be fed by US authorities every now and then.

7/24/2013 4:12:39 PM

The traitor Snowden is harmless anyway.

7/24/2013 5:54:20 PM

He had the keypad passwords to the bathrooms.

7/26/2013 12:50:50 AM

Quote :

"In a letter sent this week, US attorney general Eric Holder told his Russian counterpart that the charges faced by Snowden do not carry the death penalty. Holder added that the US "would not seek the death penalty even if Mr Snowden were charged with additional, death penalty-eligible crimes"."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/26/us-no-death-penalty-edward-snowden-russia


"Pleaaaaseee? Pretty pleaaasee? Can we have this guy back? We promise not to kill him...pleeeeeaassse?"

7/26/2013 4:40:27 PM

Public Opinion vs. Corporate influence

vs.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/07/26/few-see-adequate-limits-on-nsa-surveillance-program/

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/07/money-nsa-vote/

winner = Corporate influence.

Quote :

"The investigation shows that defense cash was a better predictor of a member’s vote on the Amash amendment than party affiliation."

lulz.





[Edited on July 29, 2013 at 4:25 PM. Reason : ]

7/29/2013 4:11:49 PM

Possibly the best article i've read on this whole NSA thing:

http://www.edge.org/conversation/nsa-the-decision-problem

7/29/2013 4:22:50 PM

here we are:

More domestic spying (this one goes into a LOT of detail):

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 3:25 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2013 3:13:17 PM

Quote :

"More domestic spying"

eh, kind of

Quote :

"Under US law, the NSA is required to obtain an individualized Fisa warrant only if the target of their surveillance is a 'US person', though no such warrant is required for intercepting the communications of Americans with foreign targets."

Quote :

"While the Fisa Amendments Act of 2008 requires an individualized warrant for the targeting of US persons, NSA analysts are permitted to intercept the communications of such individuals without a warrant if they are in contact with one of the NSA's foreign targets."

also:

Quote :

"The NSA documents assert that by 2008, 300 terrorists had been captured using intelligence from XKeyscore."

neat

how'd they miss the tsarnaevs?

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 5:15 PM. Reason : .]

7/31/2013 5:05:04 PM

Quote :

"Under US law, the NSA is required to obtain an individualized Fisa warrant only if the target of their surveillance is a 'US person', though no such warrant is required for intercepting the communications of Americans with foreign targets."

very next sentence:

Quote :

"But XKeyscore provides the technological capability, if not the legal authority, to target even US persons for extensive electronic surveillance without a warrant provided that some identifying information, such as their email or IP address, is known to the analyst."

as to this point:

Quote :

"While the Fisa Amendments Act of 2008 requires an individualized warrant for the targeting of US persons, NSA analysts are permitted to intercept the communications of such individuals without a warrant if they are in contact with one of the NSA's foreign targets."

very next sentence:

Quote :

"The ACLU's deputy legal director, Jameel Jaffer, told the Guardian last month that national security officials expressly said that a primary purpose of the new law was to enable them to collect large amounts of Americans' communications without individualized warrants. "The government doesn't need to 'target' Americans in order to collect huge volumes of their communications," said Jaffer. "The government inevitably sweeps up the communications of many Americans" when targeting foreign nationals for surveillance."

7/31/2013 5:33:30 PM

I find it curious that they have built this entire infrastructure to record every communication in the known civilized world yet they only have enough storage space to hold onto it for 5 days.

I know they have ways of tagging the important communications and saving them in a different database, but you have to imagine they are working to expand this capacity problem.

7/31/2013 6:06:50 PM

^^herpity derp! The technology exists. No shit.

Quote :

""The ACLU's deputy legal director, Jameel Jaffer, told the Guardian last month that national security officials expressly said that a primary purpose of the new law was to enable them to collect large amounts of Americans' communications without individualized warrants."

Which Americans? The ones communicating with foreign terrorists? He doesn't specify in his vague-ass statement. The actual law does though. In the sentence right before it which I quoted.




[Edited on August 1, 2013 at 8:00 AM. Reason : .]

8/1/2013 7:52:55 AM

^^
The 5 day thing is almost assuredly a lie.

And they are building new facilities:

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2013/07/nsas-big-dig/67406/

8/1/2013 8:38:43 AM

Quote :

"Which Americans? The ones communicating with foreign terrorists? He doesn't specify in his vague-ass statement. The actual law does though. In the sentence right before it which I quoted."

and determining who is a terrorist is a secret process (without habeas corpus), so its a vague-ass distinction.

8/1/2013 9:33:05 AM

Quote :

"Which Americans? The ones communicating with foreign terrorists? He doesn't specify in his vague-ass statement. The actual law does though. In the sentence right before it which I quoted."

http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/31/the-government-lied-about-being-able-to-read-your-email-without-a-warrant/

Quote :

"Here’s how XKeyscore allows the NSA to read your email: an analyst, without needing a warrant, merely has to provide an email address or an IP address, a written “justification,” and a time range. That’s it. If that feels a bit loose, you have the proper internal reaction. (For information about how the NSA collects and stores the data, head here.) The documents note that the “bodies” of emails are in fact searchable, meaning that the NSA has the ability to go far and beyond the simple tracking of email metadata. That too is searchable, however, but is not the full extent of what the NSA can in fact find and access. What happens after the analyst requests the emails from XKeyscore? Greenwald: “The analyst then selects which of those returned emails they want to read by opening them in NSA reading software.” According to the documents, the software can be used to read communications that “transit” the U.S., as well as conversations that “terminate” in the U.S. While the communication in question is from a foreign source, and therefore not privy to Constitutional protection, I doubt that the rest of the world finds that defense relaxing."

8/1/2013 12:08:53 PM

^there's even a picture of the "description" the analyst needs to fill out for justification.

It's literally a one line form, similar to tww's "edit response" line. It's hardly a warrant.


Here:



[Edited on August 1, 2013 at 12:16 PM. Reason : justification]

8/1/2013 12:14:41 PM

i'd love to see some of the justifications they've given

8/1/2013 12:18:07 PM

probably lots of "a" or ";" or "." just like w/ tww edit reasons

8/1/2013 4:11:32 PM

We must invade Russia. Snowden is a more dangerous target than Osama Bin Laden. We should send a special forces team into Moscow and assassinate him. Russia's borders are no more sacred than Pakistan. Putin will publicly condemn the attack but secretly be glad that Snowden is dead and he didn't have to order the execution.

[Edited on August 1, 2013 at 6:26 PM. Reason : .]

8/1/2013 6:24:26 PM

????

Snowden is a hero. He exposed the illegal activities of the federal government.

8/2/2013 8:21:29 AM