I don't think you understand how contract law operates, Ribs.

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 9:25 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2014 9:25:26 PM

Did you read my first post where I said TWW lawyers weigh in?

I'm not a lawyer and not trying to pose as one

4/29/2014 9:26:37 PM

TT10 acting like slave owners did t get some chocolate cake every now and them. You don't have to love or even like a woman, or her ethnic background, to get yours rocks off.

4/29/2014 9:27:04 PM

what's that about my erections?

4/29/2014 9:27:25 PM

I've never heard of someone who hates black people that's fine with his girlfriend fucking black dudes

^^I'm pretty much saying the opposite. I'm saying I never heard of any slave owners that were cool with their wife fucking one of their slaves...just as long as the other plantation owners didn't know about it

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 9:28 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2014 9:27:25 PM

^^ You love that relentless back and forth with people who don't happen to share your, often super liberal, point of view. In other words, this topic is perfect for you.

4/29/2014 9:30:55 PM

Racists are illogical hypocrites. Film at 11.

4/29/2014 9:32:09 PM

I think that wife analogy needs to be revisited...

4/29/2014 9:32:36 PM

I also don't think 21 (or 22 if Sterling gets a vote) owners are going to vote that the team should be taken away from them. I'm sure a few of them have donated $1,000 to some traditional marriage candidate which means they themselves could be kicked out for hating gays. Or somebody like Mark Cuban, who basically says Sterling is a piece of shit, but that he doesn't like how something someone says in their own home can end up in them losing property.

4/29/2014 9:33:46 PM

You're right the owners really do have to be careful. It could really open a pandora's box if this goes through.

4/29/2014 9:35:27 PM

Quote :

"You love that relentless back and forth with people who don't happen to share your, often super liberal, point of view. In other words, this topic is perfect for you."

super liberal?

I was unaware that only super liberals can be against racist douchebags and people who discriminate over sexual orientation

this is a message board. opinions are shared. you've shared yours as much as I've shared mine, yet I'm pretty sure I've never resorted to any name calling. oh well.

the more you know, I guess

Quote :

"I also don't think 21 (or 22 if Sterling gets a vote) owners are going to vote that the team should be taken away from them."

Silver doesn't say what he said without the backing of the amount of owners he needs

Quote :

"You're right the owners really do have to be careful"

any owner or CEO of any billion dollar company should be careful, there is an ungodly amount of money at stake

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 10:03 PM. Reason : this isn't even political, dog]

4/29/2014 9:38:56 PM

I think the $2.5M fine is cut and dry and that he'll pay it

But as for this:

Quote :

" The Membership of a Member or the interest of any Owner may be terminated by a vote of three fourths (3/4) of the Board of Governors if the Member or Owner shall do or suffer any of the following: (a) Willfully violate any of the provisions of the Constitution and By-Laws, resolutions, or agreements of the Association."

I haven't read through their monster of a document, but I'm wondering what he willfully violated. Is there something specific in the constitution about not privately criticizing black fans? Either way, if and when it goes to court, it will take awhile. He'll own the Clippers for at least a few more years imo

Quote :

"Silver doesn't say what he said without the backing of the amount of owners he needs"

That seems to be some people's assumption, but I don't know why. Owners in any sport tend to stick together on things that could potentially affect them equally. Do you think Silver called up 20+ owners this afternoon and got a written promise that they would vote him out of the league? Did all of those owners have their lawyers read the NBA constitution while fully aware of what Sterling willfully did that violated the bylaws?

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 9:46 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2014 9:44:34 PM

If there's anything about causing financial issues to the league then seems like they'd have an argument since sponsor after sponsor after sponsor cut bait from the team

4/29/2014 9:46:30 PM

but does he really "own" the team if he cant even be in the facilities or part of any decisions? however, i doubt he was really doing anything other than writing checks and collecting money at this point in his life anyway

4/29/2014 9:47:09 PM

^^But did he willfully do that? I don't think he ever intended to sabotage his own profits, and I think his lawyers would argue the same thing

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 9:47 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2014 9:47:15 PM

Sterling is crying all the way to the bank. The team will be sold for $700 millions. Considering he paid $12 millions for the team, that's a pretty good investment.

4/29/2014 9:52:54 PM

Quote :

"That seems to be some people's assumption, but I don't know why. Owners in any sport tend to stick together on things that could potentially affect them equally. Do you think Silver called up 20+ owners this afternoon and got a written promise that they would vote him out of the league? Did all of those owners have their lawyers read the NBA constitution while fully aware of what Sterling willfully did that violated the bylaws?"

if they didn't read it themselves, they sure as hell hired the right people to read it. and of course he talked with the owners. nearly all of them got to be owners by being smarter than the vast majority of the rest of us, and they more than likely realize that having an overt-racist as an owner of a team is bad for business.

4/29/2014 9:55:08 PM

^^^Dunno, some will argue that saying what he did in a business with such a heavy black workforce would be willful

Upon further reading of their Constitution & By-Laws:

Quote :

"ARTICLE 14 PROCEDURE FOR TERMINATION The Membership of a Member or the interest of any Owner shall be terminated on the occurrence of any of the events described in Article 13 by the following procedure: (a) Any Member of the Association or the Commissioner may charge that a Member or Owner has violated one (1) or more of the provisions of Article 13. Said charge shall be made in Writing and shall be filed with the Commissioner, who shall, no later than three (3) business days after the charges are filed, cause a copy thereof to be served by a Writing upon the Member or Owner against whom such charges have been made. (b) The Member or Owner so charged shall, within five (5) days after receipt of the charges, file with the Commissioner its written answer thereto. The Commissioner shall thereupon transmit said charges and answer to each of the Governors of the Association and shall call a special meeting of the Governors to hear the charges, to be held on a date not more than ten (10) days after the filing of a Member’s or Owner’s answer, due notice to be given."

So, apparently any of the other owners can simply charge he did & it's on him to prove otherwise if he so chooses to fight this (link to the full section 13 & 14 parts about kicking out an owner - http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/233171/NBA-Constitution-Excerpt-On-Termination-Of-Ownership)

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 9:59 PM. Reason : link]

4/29/2014 9:55:58 PM

Quote :

"having an overt-racist as an owner of a team is bad for business"

Seems like having an asshole racist owner of one team would benefit every other team by giving them a better chance at the best players, who don't want to play for the racist owner. These guys are smart businessmen, that's how they got the money to become owners. Not from being philanthropists.

4/29/2014 10:08:48 PM

not when sponsors start pulling out

or when players are talking about boycotting. (not just the Clippers, either)

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 10:12 PM. Reason : I don't understand how this is even a debate]

4/29/2014 10:11:27 PM

Quote :

"If course, the NAACP has rescinded their plans to give him an award, and gave his donation back to him."

Good night, sweet check.

4/29/2014 10:14:53 PM

The other MLB owners booted Marge Schott in the 90s for being racist and that seemed to stick.

4/29/2014 10:16:05 PM

Quote :

"when players are talking about boycotting. (not just the Clippers, either)"

Boycotting if what? If the other owners don't take the Clippers away from Sterling? And I view those as relatively empty threats, kind of like with the recent NFL lockout. Let's see how many players are willing to boycott playing at all when the checks stop coming in.

^Nope. The MLB banned her from management duties, kind of like what Silver did. She eventually chose to sell the team

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 10:18 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2014 10:17:24 PM

Why wasn't he banned for the housing discrimination in 2006?

I'm not clear that his recent remarks are even technically that hurtful. They're mainly just embarrassing. He's an old billionaire who doesn't want people to think his ho is a ho, and apparently, his standard for that is taking pictures with black people. I don't know why a billionaire would care what anyone thinks about anything so it's kind of hilarious that he does.

But, holy shit, if you own a ton of residential property in Los Angeles, and you choose to commit housing discrimination--regardless of your motivation--you're not just a criminal...you're practically evil. Sterling's what everyone hates, what everyone is trying to put their finger on when things don't seem to shake out right. It's him.

4/29/2014 10:28:00 PM

Quote :

"The other MLB owners booted Marge Schott in the 90s for being racist and that seemed to stick"

nope, you whiffed on this one

4/29/2014 10:28:09 PM

^ you so badly want the racist to win don't you?

4/29/2014 10:30:25 PM

Quote :

"Why wasn't he banned for the housing discrimination in 2006?"

Cause Stern is a flopping bitch. Silver plays for keeps

4/29/2014 10:30:48 PM

Quote :

"Boycotting if what? If the other owners don't take the Clippers away from Sterling? And I view those as relatively empty threats, kind of like with the recent NFL lockout. Let's see how many players are willing to boycott playing at all when the checks stop coming in."

you are all sorts of wrong on this. the players were locked out, it wasnt a strike. owners did not allow players into facilities. people forget that owners make no money if there are no games/players. thats why both sides want to end a lockout/stirke quickly.

this isnt about collective bargaining, contracts, etc.

also, http://blogs.mercurynews.com/thompson/2014/04/29/warriors-had-the-blueprint-for-a-dramatic-boycott-ready-to-go/

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 10:39 PM. Reason : i]

4/29/2014 10:37:35 PM

^ok fair enough. but iirc, prior to the NFL owners rejecting the new CBA, there were players saying they wouldnt play. i just don't see players leaving ALL that money on the table as happening, especially when players have 5-figure mortgages, etc

the NBA players got Silver to suspend and ban Sterling. neither Silver nor the players can force the owners to vote him out of ownership though.

4/29/2014 10:42:27 PM

I assume MJ will abstain from voting b/c racists buy shoes too

4/29/2014 10:44:39 PM

do you really think an owner is going to vote against ousting sterling? imagine the media circus and outrage against that owner.

4/29/2014 10:49:15 PM

are the votes announced to the public?

4/29/2014 10:50:29 PM

i think this story has shown that everything will eventually be released to the public.

4/29/2014 10:54:12 PM

Owners aren't going to vote out Sterling just because some reporters will right mean things about them

If they're worried about setting a dangerous precedent, or worried about themselves potentially losing their own team for something they say in their own home, they could vote against it

4/29/2014 10:57:27 PM

why does it matter where it was said?

4/29/2014 11:00:13 PM

Because he didn't hold a press conference to announce that he hated niggers. He expressed his opinion in his home. A stupid, old fashioned, racist, bigoted opinion. But he didn't get in front of a dozen microphones to talk about how much he hates minorities.

Some people think it's wrong for someone to have a half-a-billion-dollar asset taken from you for having dumb beliefs

Where it was said doesn't matter as far as how much of a racist he is. But that's obviously not the point.

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 11:07 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2014 11:02:55 PM

so no one should be held responsible for what they say?

4/29/2014 11:14:47 PM

Do you think there is a difference in going up to your boss at work and telling him you hate his guts, versus being at home with your girlfriend and telling her you hate your bosses guts?

4/29/2014 11:16:11 PM

you are arguing that he didnt publicly announce his racism, then say this

Quote :

"Where it was said doesn't matter as far as how much of a racist he is"

wut?

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 11:17 PM. Reason : until your boss finds out you were talking shit behind his back...duh]

4/29/2014 11:16:55 PM

it's his own fault he signed the contract he did

4/29/2014 11:17:21 PM

Quote :

"I'm not a lawyer and not trying to pose as one"

Quote :

"I really just think the NBA wanted to win the court of public opinion, knowing full well they are about to get their doors blown off in real court"

Quote :

"I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on."

Quote :

"the evidence to take away someone's billion dollar business just isn't there."

Quote :

"You're right the owners really do have to be careful. It could really open a pandora's box if this goes through."

Quote :

"but that he doesn't like how something someone says in their own home can end up in them losing property."

Quote :

"Some people think it's wrong for someone to have a half-a-billion-dollar asset taken from you for having dumb beliefs"

it's not like he isn't going to be compensated.

Quote :

"any owner or CEO of any billion dollar company should be careful"

It doesn't appear that it's worth anything approaching a billion dollars, but your point is still valid.

Quote :

"you so badly want the racist to win don't you?"

inorite? ncstatetke has has done nothing but post in support of this racist piece of shit. I don't get it really.

Quote :

"do you really think an owner is going to vote against ousting sterling? imagine the media circus and outrage against that owner."

Have you not read this thread? It sounds like Cuban will. The question is will anyone else.

4/29/2014 11:19:47 PM

To play devil's advocate here, if we had the technology to read people's minds without them knowing, would someone's private thoughts be grounds for termination even if they have never said one racist/sexist/homophobic thing out lout to anyone in the organization?

4/29/2014 11:20:02 PM

Quote :

"you are arguing that he didnt publicly announce his racism, then say this"

I'm not arguing that he isn't a racist piece of shit. I'm saying I don't think it's right that he has his property taken from him for expressing his (neanderthal) opinion

And more relevantly, I think some of the other billionaire owners will agree and the league won't get enough votes

But we'll see

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 11:20 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2014 11:20:07 PM

Quote :

"It doesn't appear that it's worth anything approaching a billion dollars, but your point is still valid."

there have been multiple reports today from people-in-the-know that he could get $1.5 billion

4/29/2014 11:21:55 PM

I don't think being forced to sell = having his "property taken from him"

It's not like the team is being seized.

Quote :

"that he could get $1.5 billion"

wow that's the highest thing I've read by far, but then, I don't read Twitter much.

Quote :

"A sale of the team could easily fetch $700 million or more, according to several people familiar with the economics of the team and the league."

Who knows how much it could go for...


[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 11:25 PM. Reason : ]

4/29/2014 11:22:37 PM

well yeah, he'd get $texas for it

but i don't think he should be forced to sell his property for having shitty beliefs

^i mean...it's a team in one of the top markets in the country, with a couple young all stars...this isn't your clippers of the 90s

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 11:26 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2014 11:24:06 PM

Quote :

"inorite? ncstatetke has has done nothing but post in support of this racist piece of shit. I don't get it really. "

ummm

the whiff I was referring to was the statement about Marge Schott being forced to sell the Reds by her fellow owners. that's not what happened

4/29/2014 11:26:40 PM

Quote :

"Have you not read this thread? It sounds like Cuban will. The question is will anyone else."

O RLY?

Mark Cuban ?@mcuban 9h
I agree 100% with Commissioner Silvers findings and the actions taken against Donald Sterling

Quote :

"I'm saying I don't think it's right that he has his property taken from him for expressing his (neanderthal) opinion"

he basically said he didnt want black people at his games. thats discrimination, not an opinion.

4/29/2014 11:26:53 PM

Quote :

"he basically said he didnt want black people at his games."

he basically said he didn't want his girlfriend going to games with black people. that's keeping your ho in check

Quote :

"I agree 100% with Commissioner Silvers findings and the actions taken against Donald Sterling"

The actions Silver took were the fine and the ban. Not forcing a sale

Quote :

"Mavericks owner Mark Cuban thinks the NBA would be a better league without Donald Sterling in it, but Cuban called the potential scenario of forcing the Los Angeles Clippers owner to sell the team in wake of the racist comments allegedly made by him "a slippery slope." Cuban was one of several NBA owners to make strong comments about Sterling on Monday, a day before commissioner Adam Silver was scheduled to hold a news conference in New York to announce the league's investigation into the issue. However, Cuban was the only one to express concern about the precedent that could be set by forcing Sterling to leave the league. [+] EnlargeMark Cuban Jerome Miron/USA TODAY SportsMavs owner Mark Cuban called comments attributed to Donald Sterling "abhorrent," but said he thinks kicking out an owner would be a "slippery slope." "I think there's a [league] constitution for a reason, right?" Cuban said before Game 4 of the Mavericks-San Antonio Spurs series. "Because this is a very slippery slope. What Donald said was wrong. It was abhorrent. There's no place for racism in the NBA, any business I'm associated with, and I don't want to be associated with people who have that position. "But at the same time, that's a decision I make. I think you've got to be very, very careful when you start making blanket statements about what people say and think, as opposed to what they do. It's a very, very slippery slope. "Again, there's no excuse for his positions. There's no excuse for what he said. There's no excuse for anybody to support racism. There's no place for it in our league, but there's a very, very, very slippery slope.""

[Edited on April 29, 2014 at 11:28 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2014 11:28:07 PM

Quote :

"AndyMac: To play devil's advocate here, if we had the technology to read people's minds without them knowing, would someone's private thoughts be grounds for termination even if they have never said one racist/sexist/homophobic thing out lout to anyone in the organization?"

I guess the argument would be that you are bound to act on those thoughts unconsciously and are therefore unfit for whatever job it is. Naturally, everyone's thoughts would come up lacking, and we'd all be screwed...until we realized we could use the technology strictly against people we didn't like at the moment. And that's how that would go.

But, really, there are plenty of racists who comport themselves with tolerance in the workplace and save their rants for later. Even if they privately run a website for neonazis, if it somehow doesn't cause a problem at work, it ideally shouldn't be an issue. That's an extreme example, but I don't think any of us want to be held accountable at work for all the things we say (or do) outside of work. We can't be on the clock all the time, kept utterly in line by our paychecks and material needs. I mean, if some dude cuts you off, and you wanna tell that cracker motherfucker what you think of him, you should obviously think twice about escalating the situation, but you shouldn't have to worry you're gonna be out of a job.

Of course, Sterling actually has violated people's civil rights, and except for a small-to-him settlement, he pretty much got away with it. He's too wealthy. There's no way to really make him pay for being an asshole. For other folks though, their right to spew bullshit is all they got.



I also suppose we could talk about the value of free speech and whatnot. People who say unpopular things are often quite right, and we really need them to keep doing and saying unpopular things. But, if we wanna keep those awesome people around, then we're gonna have to tolerate some assholes, too.

[Edited on April 30, 2014 at 12:22 AM. Reason : ]

4/30/2014 12:10:15 AM