I did know someone who went through the complete change, including surgery, going from female to male.

Still doesn't change how I feel about the fact that it's a disorder.

Live and let live is fine with me, but not for the .04% of the US , even fewer of which are the activists that make such loud noise, it isn't fine with them. They want to change how the 99.96% of the country feels, thinks, and acts about their disorder.

6/3/2015 1:25:42 PM

Quote :

"Live and let live is fine with me, but not for the .04% of the US , even fewer of which are the activists that make such loud noise, it isn't fine with them. They want to change how the 99.96% of the country feels, thinks, and acts about their disorder. "

That's because the way the other 99.96% feels about them affects their daily safety and well being...?

Or are you okay with people being abused just because they're a minority?

6/3/2015 1:26:56 PM

Someones abusing Caitlyn??? or is Caitlyn shoving her new found tits down everyones throat with this look at me vanity fair shit?

6/3/2015 1:29:02 PM

Who is fucking abusing them?? Tell me?

I've not, nor do I know anyone that has ever lifted a finger against this crowd, physically, mentally, or otherwise.

Just don't cram your shit down my throat. The person that I mentioned doesn't talk about it anymore unless asked, doesn't throw it up in anybody's faces, and would rather people not know his past life as a female. Then you have the activists that are all like "hey look at me! And while you're looking, you're not allowed to feel weird about me at all, not allowed to be curious, and you're supposed to accept my disorder as normal. Why are you treating me like I'm different?!" All the while, I'm just wanting them to live their lives quietly, similar to own quiet little existence, and the quiet little existences of most other Americans.

[Edited on June 3, 2015 at 1:35 PM. Reason : afdasdf]

6/3/2015 1:34:32 PM

at a base level, all they're looking for is common decency and respect

saying that they have a disorder is not showing them either common decency or respect

6/3/2015 1:40:01 PM

Quote :

"I've not, nor do I know anyone that has ever lifted a finger against this crowd, physically, mentally, or otherwise."

errr...

6/3/2015 1:40:17 PM

What, am I lifting a finger because I'm calling this condition a disorder? Is that making fun of them in some way? Am I belittling them by saying they need counseling and assistance?

6/3/2015 1:41:16 PM

yes , because you're implying that either they are in the wrong or that something is wrong with them

6/3/2015 1:42:31 PM

BEING BORN A MAN, GROWING UP A MAN, AND DECIDING YOU WANT TO BE A WOMAN IS A FUCKING DISORDER. THAT SHIT AIN'T NORMAL

6/3/2015 1:46:09 PM

There are organisms out there that can successfully change their sex. Humans aren't one of them.

Quote :

"yes , because you're implying that either they are in the wrong or that something is wrong with them"

How am I implying that something is wrong. There is no implying here. There is something amiss. And you who think its ok...are just enabling this behavior.

[Edited on June 3, 2015 at 1:51 PM. Reason : SFaearf]

6/3/2015 1:49:42 PM

You guys do know that people looking to transition go through years of counseling... right? And no, it's not because gender dysphoria is a mental disorder of disease of any kind.

6/3/2015 1:52:31 PM

This is a free country, he is free to be a she, but don't tell us we have to call him brave and a hero after he transforms.

I'd be just fine if this thing wasn't getting an award for letting its mental illness win.

I respect Bruce, not Caitlyn.

[Edited on June 3, 2015 at 1:55 PM. Reason : ,]

6/3/2015 1:54:41 PM

sex and gender are not the same thing

6/3/2015 1:58:10 PM

Quote :

"How am I implying that something is wrong. There is no implying here. There is something amiss. And you who think its ok...are just enabling this behavior."

enabling someone to live happily and freely as opposed to a life of depression that often leads to suicide?

which side you wanna take?

you're starting to sound like a person who wants to round them all up and send them away

6/3/2015 2:01:00 PM

For once I'm in agreement with dtownral. I find this somewhat horrifying.

6/3/2015 2:01:34 PM

6/3/2015 2:09:01 PM

you can have all sorts of gender identity issues, implant all kinds of shit onto yourself, dress in different clothes, but the fact is you're never going to actually be a woman. that's fact. you may feel like you are a woman, but unless you are one, you really don't know and will never know what it is like to be truly be one. facts is facts. balls don't lie.

+1 mental disorder

[Edited on June 3, 2015 at 2:17 PM. Reason : dat 190% sarah palindrome post! 6776]

6/3/2015 2:10:08 PM

Quote :

" And no, it's not because gender dysphoria is a mental disorder of disease of any kind."

It seems to me like the line between "mental disease/disorder" and "mental condition" is pretty arbitrary

Why should gender dysphoria be regarded as a "condition," while pyromania, kleptomania and sociopathy are considered "disorders?" Okay, the latter three hurt people...but really, they're all just tendencies to do shit that's abnormal, compared to the general population. I don't see any fundamental difference between any of them.

I'm not saying we should condemn folks who like to get their penises molded into vaginas, or be intolerant of them; but we don't need to regard their behavior as normal, or use the word "cisgender" to describe people who don't have these bizarre tendencies.

6/3/2015 2:11:20 PM

I don't want to "round them up."

I don't want to do anything to anybody. I just want them to live their lives. Without affecting me or what I pay for insurance (which sounds ludicrous now, but give it a few years, and elective surgeries such as reassignment will start showing up as covered, if they aren't already with some plans).

6/3/2015 2:11:29 PM

So you think paying for your insurance somehow pays for them.......are you on Obamacare?

6/3/2015 2:15:49 PM

^^the things you're trying to use as a shield instead of just saying, "I do not like these people" are pretty funny and really damn sad

discredited psychologist? bathroom issues? sex-changing organisms? health care premiums? am I leaving something out?

[Edited on June 3, 2015 at 2:19 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2015 2:16:10 PM

Quote :

"yes , because you're implying that either they are in the wrong or that something is wrong with them"

I mean, if someone goes through years of counseling and has a pretty radical surgery is that not them trying to correct something that is indeed wrong with them?

6/3/2015 2:17:51 PM

Quote :

"Without affecting me"

They aren't. That's the point.

6/3/2015 2:19:33 PM

6/3/2015 2:19:38 PM

Quote :

"I mean, if someone goes through years of counseling and has a pretty radical surgery is that not them trying to correct something that is indeed wrong with them?"

yeah, pre-surgery

the people who are the loudest against this are talking about post-surgery, which is what got us here

6/3/2015 2:22:16 PM

Quote :

"I mean, if someone goes through years of counseling and has a pretty radical surgery is that not them trying to correct something that is indeed wrong with them?"

The only thing "wrong with them" is that they were born with the wrong gender, and they have to deal with it every day.

6/3/2015 2:22:24 PM

Quote :

"^^the things you're trying to use as a shield instead of just saying, "I do not like these people" are pretty funny and really damn sad discredited psychologist? bathroom issues? sex-changing organisms? health care premiums? am I leaving something out?"

I'm not going out of my way to dodge saying how I feel. You're right, I don't like the activists. I wish they would just shut up. However, the 99% of the .04% who are just trying to live their lives the best way they know how? Like the person I mentioned earlier that had gone through the change. He's a really great person, we're not close friends, but we talk on a weekly basis. I wish him the best in his endeavors. Will we ever hang out much? Probably not. Not because "I don't like these people," we just don't share similar interests.

I just want the loud obnoxious activists to go away. They make the rest look bad.

6/3/2015 2:27:39 PM

so now it's the activists?

why do you think they're activists?

6/3/2015 2:28:52 PM

^^^
bah, nobody was born with the "wrong" gender...what's between your legs is the right gender.

these are just people who don't like the gender they were born with. but if a biological mistake happened, it's a problem with their heads, not their genitalia.

6/3/2015 2:29:07 PM

not sure about this whole "born with the wrong gender" thing. sometimes you just have to play the hand you're dealt. that's life.

also, someone born with one leg putting on a prosthetic leg doesn't make that person have two legs. it makes you a one legged person with a prosthetic leg. perhaps "woman" is the wrong word for what he should be identifying as.

6/3/2015 2:29:15 PM

Where were some of you people to defend Bruce/Caitlyn when he/she was being made fun of for terrible plastic surgery and being a reality tv whore, etc?

6/3/2015 2:29:43 PM

Quote :

"yes , because you're implying that either they are in the wrong or that something is wrong with them"

This is a mistake most avid supporters of Jenner are making... any statement that isn't 100% supportive of Jenner is considered a statement of hate or bigotry.

"Transgender" by itself is wrong. "Trans" is Latin for "On the opposite side". Jenner identifies as a woman but has the body of a man, the "Wrong" body. He is doing god knows what to correct this "wrong". Based on this I think it is safe to say Transgenderism is a disorder. Is that hateful to say? I don't look down on anyone that has a disorder, nor do I view them as a lesser person. Being born identifying as a woman in a man's body is a problem.

Quote :

"saying that they have a disorder is not showing them either common decency or respect"

Acknowledging reality is not disrespectful.

Higher suicide rates, depression, do THOSE count as disorders? It comes with being transgendered.

If my friend has bad breath, I tell them and give them a piece of gum. Sure it is kinda awkward since he is embarrassed for a minute, but it's what a good friend does. It's way more helpful than telling him his breath smells great, and encouraging him to go talk to the hot girl at the bar.

My point is telling someone they have a problem shows way more decency than pretending it doesn't exist.

The media and liberals can tell Jenner she looks beautiful and is courageous, but at the end of the day, I see a 65 year old grandfather with tits on a magazine. That isn't hateful to say, that is just reality.

6/3/2015 2:58:34 PM

You can't argue with this crowd. If you don't support their view 100%, you're somehow in the wrong, disrespectful, etc.

6/3/2015 3:12:18 PM

It's a choice to have his weiner lopped off, but not to be a woman in his head.

Have surgeries, change your name, take hormones, whatever. Don't care. That doesn't make you a woman, though.

6/3/2015 3:17:06 PM

well, it's not entirely just about disagreement...

...it's about disagreeing without being a condescending prick

6/3/2015 3:17:39 PM

not guilty, your honor, by reason of I'm Caitlyn Jenner, and that car accident was caused by some dude named Bruce Jenner

what's the craziest thing you've ever done to get out of being accountable for a crime?

6/3/2015 3:20:12 PM

Semantic arguments everywhere

6/3/2015 3:21:39 PM

that cat guy should legally be able to change his race to 'cat'. I know several humans who would probably benefit from being legally declared dogs or other kinds of non-people.

6/3/2015 3:38:09 PM

can you rape an animal? if a woman changes her species to "cat," for example, and then you rape her, is that rape? or is it just bestiality? I don't think committers of bestiality are required to register as sex offenders.

6/3/2015 3:50:04 PM

Quote :

"yeah, pre-surgery the people who are the loudest against this are talking about post-surgery, which is what got us here"

So then before the surgery or if they don't opt to have the surgery then something is in fact wrong with them?

6/3/2015 3:51:35 PM

wrong in the sense that they were not born the gender that they believe they are, yeah

but that doesn't make it a disorder

6/3/2015 4:19:01 PM

If a person had ethnic dysphoria, and decided they wanted to be black/white/asian/etc what would you people say????

What if Bruce Jenner decided he was going to be Antwan instead of Caitlyn?

6/3/2015 4:41:16 PM

So then how can you not say there is something wrong with them mentally? Something is wrong or else they would identify with their body like most of the population does. This isn't saying they are bad or should be shunned or discriminated against or not allowed to live as whatever they see fit, it is just saying there is something that is not correct otherwise they would not feel the need to have corrective surgery. Saying the cause has to do with something being off mentally doesn't have to mean they are any less of a person or that it should be looked down upon in anyway but just because it might be political correct to say one thing doesn't mean it's true.

[Edited on June 3, 2015 at 4:49 PM. Reason : .]

6/3/2015 4:47:37 PM

There is a huge difference in talking about someone that is going through gender dysmorphia and seeking help, in terms of both counseling and medical intervention ... VS ... saying someone has mental issues because they had a sex-reassignment surgery (which is what is happening ITT)

6/3/2015 4:54:00 PM

Except it is an issue in their brain causing the dysmorphia is it not?

6/3/2015 5:04:47 PM

so what's the point that you're trying to get at?

that it's a disorder even though the people who professionally say what is and isn't a disorder say that it isn't a disorder?

6/3/2015 5:22:13 PM

semantics. being born with a man's body, full of testorene, with a penis and testicles, and a larger-than-women's adam's apple, but "identifying" as a woman is abnormal in my book. again, that's fine if they want to, it doesn't hurt me, but it's abnormal.

How would you guys feel if Bruce did this back when he was competing, and instead of competing against men, he was allowed to compete against women, and destroyed the competition. Should that be allowed? Should Lebron James be allowed to "identify" as a woman and lead his team to WNBA champions every year?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrzGpVOPcTI

6/3/2015 5:30:11 PM

sure, the WNBA is pretty boring, Lebron James would help a lot

6/3/2015 5:32:06 PM

what if he got bit by a spider and was able to wipe out crime in a large city with his new found superpowers?

6/3/2015 5:36:57 PM

Quote :

"so what's the point that you're trying to get at? that it's a disorder even though the people who professionally say what is and isn't a disorder say that it isn't a disorder?"

Just sounds like a lot of talking out of both sides of your mouth to me

6/3/2015 5:40:24 PM