Quote :

"Has anybody else gone back and watched the Henry Gale episode from season 2? It seemed like something was up between Sayid and Ben"

Yeah, I re-watched the first 3 seasons over the course of the last couple of weeks to look for things that might point out that the writers had this in mind all along. There really wasn't anything special about the Henry Gale stuff that would indicate that Ben knew who Locke, Jack, Kate, Sayid etc were. But as has been said before, there's no reason to suspect that Ben would reveal that he knew anything special about them as well. A couple of things that I've noticed:

*Right before Ben shot John and put him in the pit o' Darma he did tell him that he was lying about being born on the island. That (and several other examples already given) pretty much so kills off the idea that he doesn't remember his time before he got shot/healed by the others.

* When John joins the others one of them said they have been waiting for him for a long time.

* When Sayid, Kate, and John captured Mikhail, he mentions that he had a fleeting memory of John from the past but that it must be a different John Locke because the one he knew was.... and then he gets interrupted. So perhaps Mikhail was an other back in the 50s when John Visited?

4/6/2009 1:27:56 PM

i'm pretty sure that was just mikhail referencing locke being handicapped (which he would have known had he read locke's file)

but i guess now they can go back and see stuff they did and be like "oh yeah, we can totally make a connection here"

4/6/2009 1:32:06 PM

Yeah, there's really not a lot of concrete evidence that the writers had this planned from the start. I was really hoping to see something like Sawyer in the background of the scene with Aaron being born or something like that, but there really wasn't anything at all like that that I saw.

4/6/2009 1:34:50 PM

Quote :

"it must be a different John Locke because the one he knew was...."

I remember this, and assumed at the time the rest of the sentence was "... in a wheelchair"
i guess that's not ruled out 100%, but now there are many more possibilities.

4/6/2009 1:36:48 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, there's really not a lot of concrete evidence that the writers had this planned from the start."

I think the writers had some idea that time travel would be incorporated in the show later on, but I don't think they had it all figured out at least until well into season 3. The Adam & Eve skeletons (and maybe the list of survivors that Ben wanted) are the only real hints of any upcoming time traveling. With time traveling, though, it's easy to create scenarios now that make it look like they knew what they were doing all along.

4/6/2009 1:41:59 PM

juliet still makes me suspicious.

4/6/2009 2:27:24 PM

I bet Richard is wearing an Ankh at all times.... he's such an Egyptian... he kinda walks like one too as the 1986 billboard hit song states...

4/6/2009 3:27:10 PM

I don't care if the writers had this planned exactly from the beginning.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

4/6/2009 3:52:48 PM

^^^why?

4/6/2009 4:00:34 PM

yknow she was sneaking around trying to get blood samples from everyone...

but maybe it was just in the name of SCIENCE!

4/6/2009 7:44:27 PM

i didn't really think juliet was to be completely trusted in the present time, but back in the past she has nothing to pull really.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

4/6/2009 7:46:39 PM

TONIGHT!!! BEN!!!

4/8/2009 1:07:10 PM

Quote :

"Ernie All American 27824 Posts user info edit post Sayid is gonna die 3/25/2009 6:38:48 PM"

Or maybe Ben, but probably Sayid.

4/8/2009 1:26:26 PM

I doubt Sayid is gonna die, and even if he does, he is just gonna be fake dead like Locke.

4/8/2009 1:55:43 PM

Quote :

"Sayid - he had his backstory effectively wrapped up two weeks ago, thinks he completed his "purpose" in coming back to the Island by shooting Young Ben, and is currently running around a really dangerous Island with no allies or supplies. It's not looking good for everyone's favorite Iraqi Torturer..."

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on Sayid. As far as Ben goes:

Quote :

"Ben - lastly there's Benjamin Linus. This week is a Ben-centric affair, which automatically puts him to the top of the list. Initially, I dismissed the idea of Ben dying... but the more I think about it, the more likely it seems. How ironic, after thinking that he was "killed" by Sayid two weeks ago, would it be if he was actually did die this week?! The previews for the episode hint that we're going to get most of the holes in his backstory filled in - from how he stole Alex to what he did at the marina when he "tied up some loose ends" before boarding Ajira 316. By my estimates, that leaves two main missing pieces from Ben's story: 1. What happened to his former pseudo-girlfriend Annie. 2. What happened between Ben and Widmore on-Island (including how he "tricked" Widmore into leaving). The first one could easily be answered through some interaction between Young Ben / Annie / our Survivors over the remainder of the Season. Granted, that second one is a pretty big - but could be answered in a mega-revealing Charles Widmore flashback down the road (fingers crossed!). So maybe Ben's "mission" for the Island was simply to get the Oceanic Five back to the Island, and now that it's done, his work is complete. I guess I always thought that the "battle for the Island" would be between Ben and Widmore - but maybe it's actually going to be between Locke and Widmore! Crazy talk, I know. The biggest argument against Ben being the death is that the wording of the episode "Dead is Dead" makes me think that the death will occur in 1977 (thus the need to beat us over the head that the death will stick in the episode title) - and we all know Ben lives until at least 2008. Based on the 1977 candidates on the list, it's looking bad for Sayid and Sawyer. So if I was forced to rank the candidates for Deathwatch 2009, I would go: 1. Sayid 2. Sawyer 3. Ben 4. Jin 5. Kate Wow - that's a pretty all-star list of characters, including four that have been around since Season 1, Episode 1 and one who most would argue is the most interesting and best-acted character on the show. Lost writers, what are you thinking?!"

http://lost-and-gone-forever.blogspot.com/2009/04/lost-dead-is-dead.html

4/8/2009 3:19:38 PM

i'm feeling strongly on daniel, ben, or juliet. kate's story seems far from over and we've already had one jin death fake-out.

4/8/2009 3:23:07 PM

We haven't seen Faraday in weeks, I don't think they'll bring him back just to kill him off so soon. And Juliet still has a lot of holes in her story to die. And Kate is far too hot to kill now.

4/8/2009 3:25:37 PM

I will start making bomb threats if sun doesn't die a horrible death this season

I'm Big Business and i approved this message

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM. Reason : yes i am communicating a threat of a threat]

4/8/2009 3:48:12 PM

Quote :

"And Kate is far too hot to kill now."

4/8/2009 7:26:01 PM

i still don't understand the hate for sun. she's definitely not the best female character, but i think kate is far more annoying.

juliet forevaz.

4/8/2009 7:29:54 PM

theres nothing to like about sun.

I don't like women in dominant positions outside of the bedroom. i hope she gets fucked over fucking with Ben & Charles business, regardless of which one is 'evil'

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

4/8/2009 7:32:34 PM

^that thought process should get you plenty of dates

4/8/2009 7:37:05 PM

ehh, some women like being submissive in general

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

4/8/2009 7:46:31 PM

have fun with em...

4/8/2009 7:59:26 PM

i mean... i don't know any

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

4/8/2009 8:35:47 PM

this is gonna be a good one...

4/8/2009 9:04:40 PM

BAM! BEN AINT SCURRED.

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 9:23 PM. Reason : oh snap! widmore on the island.]

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 9:37 PM. Reason : nm Ben is scared he just said so.]

4/8/2009 9:17:05 PM

i wonder who's in the body beg next episode?

good episode, at least for filling in the gaps. i'm glad they de-evil'd ben's character. he's definitely one of my favorites now.

i was pretty disappointed that we still didn't get to see the outside of the temple, or the temple proper, or whatever.

4/8/2009 10:07:24 PM

did not disappoint this week

4/8/2009 10:09:31 PM

awesome episode.

WTF IS IN THE SHADOW OF THE STATUE????????

seemed like in the begining Richard and Ben were just throwing around Jacobs name like the boogey man, not that they had actually recieved orders from him, they just threw out his name so no one would question

Quote :

"i'm glad they de-evil'd ben's character"

de-evil'd??? he was manipulating the shit out of everyone, he shot the guy point blank out of the blue when all he had to do was not contradict what Locke was saying and it would have been fine, and was planning on killing Locke again (his what, 3rd attempt?). Don't get me wrong, i think he is one of the best characters, but he is no less evil

4/8/2009 10:14:06 PM

he had orders to kill both alex and rousseau, but he spared both of them. and he couldn't come through on his threat to kill penny, not because desmond tackled him, but because charlie was there. on top of all that, he admitted to being at fault for alex's death.

so yeah, i'd say they made him less evil.

also, i'm pretty sure the smoke monster is somehow inhabiting locke's body.

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 10:21 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2009 10:20:35 PM

Quote :

"de-evil'd??? he was manipulating the shit out of everyone, he shot the guy point blank out of the blue when all he had to do was not contradict what Locke was saying and it would have been fine, and was planning on killing Locke again (his what, 3rd attempt?). Don't get me wrong, i think he is one of the best characters, but he is no less evil"

did you watch the last 5 minutes?

because that's probably what they're talking about...

4/8/2009 10:24:03 PM

so have the plane crash folks been on the island before? What's in the shadow of the statue sounds like a code question or something

4/8/2009 10:25:42 PM

Quote :

"he had orders to kill both alex and rousseau, but he spared both of them. and he couldn't come through on his threat to kill penny, not because desmond tackled him, but because charlie was there"

that was like 15 years ago, when he was still young. thats just like saying that since we saw him as a young boy the last few episodes and he wasn't that bad, it now makes him less evil

he hesitated to kill Penny, and then got tackled, we don't know that he would have not followed through.

and he still killed the guy for no good reason and planned on killing Locke AGAIN, i dont see how that makes him anly less evil.

Quote :

"did you watch the last 5 minutes? because that's probably what they're talking about..."

yes, when he finally (possibly for the first time that we've seen since he was a kid) showed some sort of true emotion at the loss of the child he raised as his own, i saw that. He accepted that her death was his fault. That doesn't make him a better person in my mind. He still was planning on killing Locke until he learned he would be killed for doing it

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 10:31 PM. Reason : $$$]

4/8/2009 10:26:42 PM

The other plane survivors are working for Widmore

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 10:27 PM. Reason : 1]

4/8/2009 10:27:02 PM

it was pretty clear that he had second thoughts when he saw charlie. it was all in his face. it nicely paralleled his refusal to kill rousseau when he realized she had a baby.

4/8/2009 10:28:42 PM

I, too, was a huge fan of this episode. Really good job and tying together some loose ends. however, i did expect the widmore/ben conflict to be more dramatic than what was shown. I was also hoping we'd get another glimpse of ellie, alas.

I think its interesting how they have set up ben to be the person who is going to keep locke safe, following the promise made to his smoke monstered daughter.

something interesting was definitely taking place with that other group. I don't know what they have in that container and I really have no clue what that shadow statue question was about.

i feel the temple further cemented the egyptian origins that were hypothesized about a few episodes back.

next week's has a good set up and I think we'll get even more questions answered. Tonights was 12 of 17. The next five weeks are likely to all be good ones.

4/8/2009 10:29:35 PM

the reveal for why widmore left the island was a little bit disappointing, but i guess we'll see that explained a bit more later? widmore did say that ben tricked him, but maybe he's lying about that.

4/8/2009 10:31:01 PM

and he also knew the location in Tunisia so he's gotten off the island that way before too

Quote :

" I don't know what they have in that container and I really have no clue what that shadow statue question was about."

the question was probably to figure out who on the plane is part of the group, since they were probably hired without knowing who was on the team

Quote :

"i feel the temple further cemented the egyptian origins that were hypothesized about a few episodes back. "

was it the hieroglyphics????



[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 10:36 PM. Reason : asdfghjk]

4/8/2009 10:33:06 PM

yeah..they said charles regularly left the island and had a child with an outsider...so he was banished...

so penny's mother has not been seen yet...

did charles and ellie have faraday? If so, that makes penny and faraday half-siblings

4/8/2009 10:34:10 PM

I was thinking Eloise might have been Penny's mom but that has been proven wrong. Confirmed good episode, I think the monster decided that it still had some use for Ben as opposed to making him innocent in some way.

I was kind of hoping Cesar would have some significance but I guess not...

4/8/2009 10:37:12 PM

Quote :

"was it the hieroglyphics????"

they weren't clearly hieroglyphics, but were obviously pictographs, which were used by many cultures. The head of image in the judgement hall sealed the deal. This gives more credit to the suspicions of the statue being those which were postulated a few episodes back.

4/8/2009 10:42:22 PM

^^same here with Cesar

4/8/2009 10:43:38 PM

clearly hieroglyphics

4/8/2009 10:50:39 PM

Quote :

"i wonder who's in the body beg next episode?"

Vincent

4/8/2009 11:02:04 PM

i wish my life could be so awesome that I would need to casually troll a thread in entertainment.

Quote :

"The other plane survivors are working for Widmore"

i agree with this TMF, especially since widmore knew that they were going back to the island. however, i guess ben could have just as easily orchestrated the whole thing as well.

4/8/2009 11:07:51 PM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=345845&page=67#8313108

So the numbers hit zero

some hieroglyphics show up

3 years later everyone's like--OMG I THINK THERE'S SOME EGYPTIAN THING GOING ON!!!!!!

4/8/2009 11:08:30 PM

ilana's little code phrase was great. i would totally use it in real life, except none of my friends watch LOST

4/8/2009 11:08:38 PM

Quote :

"CharlieEFH All American 21374 Posts user info edit post HEIROGLYPHICS? [Edited on February 15, 2006 at 9:54 PM. Reason : egyptian or just random symbols?]"

obviously it was a very clear matter for you.

4/8/2009 11:11:11 PM

random egyptian hieroglyphic symbols

4/8/2009 11:16:39 PM