I loved McCain slipping and calling Obama, Senator government. I actually laughed.

10/16/2008 12:14:29 AM

Quote :

"how come its always a convenient "misstatement" when obama tells a lie? or maybe you know more than NBC..."

when the exact claim as stated is so outrageous that no one would ever believe it, and if that claim can be made to be true if the sentence was slightly rephrased, then I'm inclined to think it was a misstatement, regardless of who spoke it.
If Obama was more careful about what he said and added soemthing like "in the first two weeks of October, nearly 100% of your ads were negative" then that would be a true statement. It would be insane for Obama to actually believe that all of his ads to tis point were negative

10/16/2008 12:18:04 AM

NOTE - I listened tio the debate on the radio

I kept a running scorecard from the debate. I gave out points for good/new upgrades to the platform, for solid attacks, good rebuttals to those attacks, and good one-liners that helped build momentum. Not scientific at all, but the final talley definitely reflected my overall reaction to the debate:

FINAL TALLEY
McCain 42
Obama 38

Thoughts – McCain came out swinging and never let up. He definitely got caught flat-footed after solid rebuttals by Obama, but overall he landed some key shots that were definitely lacking in past debates. Whether it’s enough to get a significant lift in the polls is anyone’s guess, but McCain should get a small bump. He did what he had to do, taking it to Obama on taxes, Ayers connection, Roe vs. Wade, and even the Joe the plumber story. Not all shots landed, but enough of them did.

WINNER - McCain by a small but distinct margin

... and no I don't care what the CNN polls say. In fact, let's just average their polls with the one from Fox News, which no doubt is 100% to 1% with a 1% margin of error


EDIT - The fact that I listening and not watching the debate may have been a big reason why i had McCain as the winner. Great commentary posted on Fox News:

http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/15/debatewrap_1015/

Quote :

"Lanny Davis Former White House Special Counsel The medium is TV — and there is no one better than Barack Obama on this medium. It is that simple. Richard Nixon won the 1960 debate among radio audience, but John Kennedy won the debate by a large margin — and many historians would say the presidency — because he talked and more importantly looked like a president to those watching it on TV. John McCain did better tonight by far than any prior debate. But he simply can’t out-point Senator Obama on the medium of TV. And projection of confidence and leadership by a president is what most Americans are looking for. And that is how Senator Obama comes across. He’s stronger on those images and impressions than Senator McCain."

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 12:31 AM. Reason : link]

10/16/2008 12:22:05 AM

mccain needs to hang out more with nancy reagan in front of cameras...it makes him look mad young

Quote :

"It would be insane for Obama to actually believe that all of his ads to tis point were negative"

who knows if he believes it, he said it...don't be so quick to jump on any mccain or palin misstatement as being some kind of huge contrived plot, while always giving obama a free pass...i'll be the first to admit that his '58 states' thing was a misstatement...but there are still people who want to think obama can do no wrong, not even simple mistakes that EVERYONE makes, so they claim he was 'joking'...NBC pwnt him on the issue, and showed clips of 2-3 mccain ads where they NOT ONLY praised mccain, but actually GAVE CREDIT TO OBAMA...i think obama was just relying on the public to believe him over mccain, since he is more eloquent

^good post

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 12:26 AM. Reason : .]

10/16/2008 12:22:36 AM

just curious here - did you count snarky, sarcastic one-liners as a positive?

10/16/2008 12:23:14 AM

Quote :

"CBS poll of undecided voters: These are the tallies that are going to matter most over the next few days and weeks. [quote]Who won the debate? McCain (R) 22 Obama (D) 53"

Quote :

"CNN poll of voters who watched debate: Who won the debate? McCain (R) 31 Obama (D) 58"

I thought it was a great line when Obama said we need to focus on the economy, & all of the other issues, instead of focusing on whose feelings are hurt.

10/16/2008 12:33:04 AM

Quote :

"NBC undecided voters who: after the debate were more likely to vote for Obama: 17% after the debate were more likely to vote for McCain: 50%"

10/16/2008 12:34:18 AM

^^^ It depended on the content and delivery. Some of McCain's one-liners were great, like the one about "I am not President Bush... if you wanted to run against Bush, you should ran 4 years ago." I gave him 3 points for that one, and that was the only time I awarded 3 points mind you. It was a well delivered slap in the face to Obama's attacks on McCain voting with Bush 95% of the time, a line we've heard spouted countless times in each debate. You sure as hell didn't hear it again though, and for good reason.

On the other hand, the line at the end about the vouchers had marginal content and the delivery wasn't very good. The laugh of course didn't help either. I was "nice" and awarded no points on that one.

^^^^ Thanks

[EDIT]

^ Alright seriously... that's a grand total of SIX FREAKING PEOPLE's VOTES included in those %'s. The fact that you offer that up as some kind of major retort is actually rather sad

McCain was better, and he won a small victory tonight. There, I freakin' said it.


[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 12:40 AM. Reason : ARROWED!!!]

10/16/2008 12:36:48 AM

Quote :

"i think obama was just relying on the public to believe him over mccain, "

He was relying on the public to understand that he misspoke. He doesn't believe the general public is a bunch of retards like the McCain camp does. Everyone who has been following the election knows that McCain has not run 100% negative ads.

10/16/2008 12:38:31 AM

I loved how McCain started to whine about all the negative press he's been getting and how Obama didn't defend him.

Obama points out that McCain's been running a ton of negative ads.

And McCain pretty much responds with "no I haven't, but let me tell everyone again what my negative ads say".

It was just silly. McCain came off like a child during that entire segment.

10/16/2008 12:41:48 AM

10/16/2008 12:44:54 AM

hahahahaha

Watching replay of debate on CNN -- mccain is talking about palin and the men's graph is going through the roof and the women's graph is completely flat.


Palin turned out to be a failure for mccain. He should have picked someone who was as qualified as biden.

10/16/2008 12:45:29 AM

joe the plumber, apparently, is not registered to vote.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/The_Joe_file.html?showall

yeah.... yeah.

10/16/2008 12:56:01 AM

His vote wouldn't matter anyway

What is important, is what each candidate's policies would do for his business

Also if you want to vote, just holler at ACORN...you can vote like 20 times

10/16/2008 12:57:10 AM

i'd like to live in your fantasy world, treetwista, where gumdrops grow on trees, and everyone rides unicorns, and the sun shits skittles.

10/16/2008 1:03:50 AM

CNN needs to take the integral of their little men and women lines to see who won.

10/16/2008 1:05:26 AM

^explain that for those of us that are just like "lolwut"

10/16/2008 1:09:35 AM

^^^then vote for Obama, I'm pretty sure those are all promises of his, plus the roads are all paved with peppermints and the sidewalks with snickers bars

10/16/2008 1:12:37 AM

^^You seriously haven't taken calculus 1?

10/16/2008 1:14:32 AM

sure did...now explain exactly what skokiaan meant

10/16/2008 1:16:15 AM

Integral.

Area under the curve.

The debates had little lines to indicate the approval from men and women while certain things were being said. They went up and down depending upon the support from each group.

I would hope you can figure out how this applies.

10/16/2008 1:20:03 AM

oh ok...gotcha...thanks...i guess the way he worded it was just kinda weird to me...i kinda didnt like calc too much

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 1:21 AM. Reason : he shoulda said something with "area under the curve" or something lololol]

10/16/2008 1:21:01 AM

Quote :

""It would be insane for Obama to actually believe that all of his ads to tis point were negative" "

Obama messed up there, that's going to come back and haunt him.

10/16/2008 1:21:23 AM

he was prolly refering to the wisconsin study from a few weeks ago

10/16/2008 1:22:22 AM

^ that doesn't mean it's not going to haunt him. Since when have the McCainiacs cared about reason?

I don't see this debate helping mccain much, if at all. It can't hurt him, because I think Obama's numbers are as good as they're going to get (and a majority is pretty darn good). McCain's problem has been that he seemed to defensive and sniveling, and this didn't change. He didn't explain how he'd be better for the middle class, and he didn't keep his temper. He did get more hits off on Obama and Obama actually made some gaffes that are easy to explain why they're gaffes. Overall, this would probably be the closest to a draw, if you take in to consideration where their numbers are and how they were expected to do.

Quote :

"voter to not realize that I don't do anything that anybody else doesn't do in TSB...you just notice it because it happens to offend your lover Obama"

You're actually the only one constantly referring to Obama as peoples' lovers. If that's how you really feel about him, just admit you want to vote for him, and get it over with. Living a lie is only going to make you more bitter, and before you know it you'll be a republican congressman trying to pick up guys in a park bathroom.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 1:33 AM. Reason : ]

10/16/2008 1:31:58 AM

ok, done.


Near the end of the debate when Obama was giving answers, Mccain just stared at him with a smirk that was half admiration for Obama's eloquence and half disgust at the fact that he was losing to this motherfucker.

10/16/2008 1:32:38 AM

i think this is the mccain that shoulda showed up to the first debate

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 1:33 AM. Reason : at least for the first half hour or 45 minutes...]

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 1:40 AM. Reason : someone post the results of the grudgereports "who did better" poll...that shit is always funny]

10/16/2008 1:33:06 AM

Has it been noted that McCain called Ayers a "washed up terrorist" doesn't this diminish the attacks he's making against Obama about him?

And I wish that Obama would have asked McCain what questions specifically he has about Ayers after Obama talked about Ayers.
^ the only one I saw on their site was the online poll. They don't have a more scientific one like the CNN and others that have been posted here.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 1:44 AM. Reason : ]

10/16/2008 1:43:01 AM

^McCain might be trying to back off a bit from the Ayers point... at least in his own rhetoric, not really in the commercials. It kind of backfired once the people at his speeches started yelling to kill Obama.

10/16/2008 1:45:43 AM

^ that's another thing...

I think that comment MIGHT come back and haunt McCain where he talked about how he valued all the people at his rallies. I think he'd be better off not saying that, or saying it a different way.

10/16/2008 1:46:51 AM

Soldiers =/= teachers. What kind of ridiculous bullshit was that anyway, McCain?

10/16/2008 1:54:16 AM

yea he never apologized or said that he didnt think that was a good statement or good part of his speeches

he just simply said that he backed the people at this events

that kind of scares me that he wouldnt tell them he cant control everyone or some talk like that

10/16/2008 1:56:21 AM

I think Obama kind of burned some bridges by focusing on how Palin didn't condemn the negative comments at the rallies, when McCain made a good effort on several occasions to do so himself. Obama should have given him more credit on that than he did.

10/16/2008 1:59:28 AM

burned some bridges with whom? i doubt any obama supports...and i doubt any mccain supporters would have switched to obama had he done what you suggested

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 2:11 AM. Reason : agreed with \/]

10/16/2008 2:07:12 AM

actually he has no reason to be apologetic

Palin is MCCAINS running mate...MCCAIN should have said for her to get the people to stop and not to say those things if he really was truly sorry and did not want it to happen then they could stop it by tossing the people out or calling them out and stuff like that.

obama was exactly right to be mad and still has every right to be, thats a terrible move on Mccains end not to say he was sorry for Palins inaction

10/16/2008 2:09:02 AM

Quote :

"Palin turned out to be a failure for mccain. He should have picked someone who was as qualified as biden."

or at least as qualified as Barack Oba.......nevermind

10/16/2008 2:13:32 AM

^^It would look worse on McCain, though, if he had to start apologizing for his VP... it would further the idea that she is unfit to hold public office.

Not that he shouldn't in terms of polite and respectful discourse, though... she is an embarrassment to anyone she associates with, there cannot be enough apologies from everyone involved in her VP appointment.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 2:14 AM. Reason : .]

10/16/2008 2:13:49 AM

Quote :

"obama was exactly right to be mad and still has every right to be"

cry me a river justin timberlake

obama has had a free ride to the white house and tonight he faces a little adversity and he starts cheesin and laughin and swallowing

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 2:15 AM. Reason : .]

10/16/2008 2:14:25 AM

Quote :

"Palin turned out to be a failure for mccain"

still might would vote for mccain if he had a different VP choice

10/16/2008 2:15:45 AM

Quote :

"still might would vote for mccain if he had a different VP choice"

For once, dnl, I agree with you. I'd love to see her drop out or something to focus on "family issues" or something similar. From a political standpoint, it would probably be the best possible course of events for the GOP to get a second try at VP. From a personal standpoint, she really does need to drop out and focus on family issues... using a shotgun wedding as a political ploy is disgusting. From my individual perspective, we need to keep her as far away from a position of power as we possibly can.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 2:19 AM. Reason : .]

10/16/2008 2:18:55 AM

And Joe "Plugs" Biden--The Human Gaffe Machine--is better?

10/16/2008 2:19:53 AM

Because gaffes clearly determine the value of a political candidate...

Seriously, everyone makes them and they are only relevant to the lowest common denominator of voters (those that vote off appearance and soundbytes). Why are we even discussing them in a forum like TSB, in which everyone has at least a partial college education?

Don't dumb down the level of conversation to try to score some imaginary debate points. It's detrimental to others around you.


^Also, since I just noticed you might have been responding directly to me and my post about Palin... yes, Biden is better, if only slightly. I disagree with most of his policies, but he seems like an intelligent guy, and certainly smart enough to hold office... if I were to hate all politicians for having a different ideology than my own, I would be hating 99% of the US government. Palin, on the other hand, barely manages to form complete sentences... when she's lucky. Also, I disagree with most of her stances as well.

Biden: +Intellect, -Policy. Overall score 2/10.
Palin: -Intellect, -Policy. Overall score 0/10.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 2:36 AM. Reason : .]

10/16/2008 2:22:08 AM

Quote :

"From a political standpoint, it would probably be the best possible course of events for the GOP to get a second try at VP"

lol i soooooooooooooooooooooooooo disagree

10/16/2008 2:24:17 AM

^^ and ^ Um. . .Biden made some pretty serious gaffes--historical, racial, socialist, and so on. And he's even been called on the carpet already by Obama for getting out ahead of the AIG bailout and for even criticizing his own campaign!

Obama on Biden's Initial Opposition to AIG Bailout: 'Joe Should Have Waited'

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-on-bidens.html

Biden Calls Obama Attack Ad 'Terrible'

Quote :

"The Delaware Senator took issue with an attack ad from his own side in an interview with CBS, telling Katie Couric that the Obama hit on McCain's ignorance of computers and technology was 'terrible.' The ad paints McCain as out of touch — and all but calls him ancient — but doesn't mention that the Arizona Senator's war injuries actually prevent him from using computers for an extended period. Asked whether he's disappointed with the tone of the campaign, including the ad that Couric characterized as 'making fun of John McCain's inability to use a computer,' Biden said 'I thought that was terrible by the way. 'I didn't know we did it and if I had anything to do with it, we would have never done it.'"

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/22/biden-calls-obama-attack-ad-terrible/

Joe "Plugs" later changed his tune, though. If Palin had done any of these things, some of you would have been unforgiving--but she didn't do any of these types of things. Palin was simply not so great in a couple of TV interviews.

Palin has more executive experience than Obama-Biden combined. Some of you need to run a reality check on yourselves and stop slurping down the MoveOn/DNC/Daily Kos talking points.

And just for you ^^:



[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 2:53 AM. Reason : PS: ]

10/16/2008 2:51:08 AM

Yeah, Biden says stupid shit a lot. I never denied that. But despite that he comes across as a person who knows how to do a job that he is given. Again, yes, he does say stupid shit. But I really don't hold gaffes against someone. For example, I don't hold Bush's many mis-speaks against him, either, but I consider him to be a failure based upon his record.

Palin, on the other hand, does FAR more than simply mis-speak. She barely even speaks at all. Only about 50% of the time have I even heard her form a complete thought that is relevant to the subject at hand. It is impossible to evaluate the points she makes as being either stupid or intelligent, because it is rare that she even makes a point in the first place. She doesn't make many gaffes because to form a gaffe one must first form a sentence.


Since you so handily chose to ignore the ratings I gave each candidate, I'll post them again for you to ignore a second time:

Biden - 2/10.
Palin - 0/10.

2 > 0 does not imply that I am a huge supporter of 2.

Quote :

"Palin has more executive experience than Obama-Biden combined."

Heh. There are so many ways to refute this statement into irrelevance that I'm just going to get some sleep and do it another day.

Quote :

"Some of you need to run a reality check on yourselves and stop slurping down the MoveOn/DNC/Daily Kos talking points."

Sorry to disappoint you, but I prefer the Cato Institute.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 3:16 AM. Reason : .]

10/16/2008 2:57:52 AM

My point is that Palin has been the target of vicious attacks from far-left haters, but she's still popular in Alaska. . .

Quote :

"But Palin would also return as a national figure who excited huge crowds across the nation and is already being described as a potential presidential candidate four years from now. She continues to enjoy high approval ratings among Alaskans, and she would come back a seasoned campaigner with new political chops."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/10/a-look-at-how-s.html

. . .and even Hillary Clinton said this:

Quote :

"'We should all be proud of Governor Sarah Palin's historic nomination, and I congratulate her and Senator McCain,' Clinton, the first woman to win a presidential primary, said in the statement. 'While their policies would take America in the wrong direction, Governor Palin will add an important new voice to the debate.'"

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/29/clinton-congratulates-palin/

And you may not like this or understand it, but Sarah Palin has a bright political future. She's got additional terms as governor or U.S. senator or maybe even a higher office to consider.

BTW, FWIW, I think Palin gets the last laugh on a lot of women in entertainment who mock her through imitation. Palin happens to be better looking than all of them.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 3:15 AM. Reason : ^ No, you can't--executive branch experience. ]

10/16/2008 3:14:22 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/15/debate.poll/index.html

Quote :

"Debate watchers say Obama wins HEMPSTEAD, New York (CNN) -- A majority of debate watchers think Sen. Barack Obama won the third and final presidential debate, according to a national poll conducted right afterward."

Looks like the debate has been called for Obama.

10/16/2008 5:55:28 AM

Quote :

"No, you can't--executive branch experience."

Mike Easley has more executive branch experience too but I wouldn't want him as VP either. I don't think that saying she's been in an executive position longer than the other three guys is really saying much.

10/16/2008 7:05:41 AM

Quote :

"Palin has more executive experience than Obama-Biden McCain combined. Some of you need to run a reality check on yourselves and stop slurping down the MoveOn/DNC/Daily Kos Fox News/GOP/Drudge Report talking points."

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 8:23 AM. Reason : s]

10/16/2008 8:22:58 AM

10/16/2008 8:42:09 AM