and i can't remember if the outrigger that carl took to warn the losties that the others were coming in season 3 stayed at the beach or not. that's the only way i can see the whole thing making sense right now.

3/31/2010 4:55:41 PM

Quote :

"unless he swam there as yemi or some shit."

hahahaha mental image of Yemi swimming around in the Dharma shark water dressed up like a priest.

As dumb as it sounds I guess he could do that or build a raft or whatever. I'm sure since he's probably been there for however many thousands of years (how many dog years is that btw?) he's devised a system to get between the main island and Hydra island. Maybe he can just take on the shape of a fish or whatever.

3/31/2010 5:07:06 PM

i'm fairly certain christian is the black smoke monster, since claire was hanging out with christian and i don't see her dad just giving her up to the black smoke monster.

the only thing that doesn't fit is in one of the webisodes, which i assume are cannon, christian sends vincent (yes really vincent) to wake up jack saying that "he has work to do". I don't see smokey doing that.

another thought, btw, image of christian in the lobby and then the smoke DETECTOR goes off...

3/31/2010 5:12:14 PM

i don't think we've ever seen jacob in any other form on the island, since he's so laissez-faire. i was hoping christian was a manifestation of jacob but it's not looking likely.

3/31/2010 5:14:22 PM

^^Yeah I remember that mini episode.... here it's on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuXzPnhhsJ0

Another thing that I haven't thought about in a long time is how come Jack woke up in the middle of the woods when everyone else was on the beach?


On the topic of the Smoke monster, he has already mentioned that once he takes a physical form, he remains that way for a very long time (or something to that degree). We've already seen him as Yemi, Alex, and Richard's wife though, and possibly Christian. I'm thinking that maybe he can "take the appearance" of people and use that as a method of communication, but he can't physically touch them unless he takes the form that lasts "a long time". Remember when Locke fell into the well and broke his leg? Christian came out and told him he had to turn the donkey wheel, then John asked him for help walking. Christian said something along the lines of "No John, I can't do that".

As soon as the plane crashed, Smokey could have taken Christian's body somewhere, maybe the temple or something (hence why the body was missing from the coffin), and taken it's shape. I may have been mistaken but after Eko found Yemi's body, didn't he go back a second time at some point and the body was missing? Maybe Smokey took his body before taking Yemi's shape too? And it's possible that when Ben called Smokey to take out the mercenaries, it took Alex's dead body with it. Maybe Smokey just has a database of dead bodies chilling under the temple that he uses when he needs to take someone's shape.

The only thing that really opposes this idea is that we saw Christian off of the island when Jack was messing with the smoke detector, but I guess he could have been hallucinating.

3/31/2010 5:30:38 PM

Quote :

"i'm fairly certain christian is the black smoke monster, since claire was hanging out with christian and i don't see her dad just giving her up to the black smoke monster. the only thing that doesn't fit is in one of the webisodes, which i assume are cannon, christian sends vincent (yes really vincent) to wake up jack saying that "he has work to do". I don't see smokey doing that. another thought, btw, image of christian in the lobby and then the smoke DETECTOR goes off..."

yeah, but all the evidence points to the fact that MiB can't travel over water and can't leave the island, period. there's no way MiB could've been christian when he spoke to michael on the freighter if he couldn't travel the 80 miles or whatever across water to get there. and it couldn't have been MiB in the lobby in los angeles unless he has some unexplained ability to project himself as an image anywhere he wants while remaining on the island physically.

christian has had the tendency to pop up wherever he feels like it as far as we've seen. and i know claire said that her father told her the others had aaron as well, which also makes it seem like he could be MiB. i just don't see christian being part of the MiB's agenda given his past with jack. considering the show is about redemption i have a feeling christian will end up helping his son as some sort of way to make up for being a shitty father and that all the signs connecting him with MiB turn out to be red herrings.

Quote :

"We've already seen him as Yemi, Alex, and Richard's wife though, and possibly Christian. I'm thinking that maybe he can "take the appearance" of people and use that as a method of communication, but he can't physically touch them unless he takes the form that lasts "a long time""

i know jacob told richard, "that wasn't your wife," but every time MiB has taken someone's form he's always needed their body to do it as we saw with alex, yemi and possibly christian although i don't think that's the case. i guess i can't rule out the idea of him scanning richard and being able to take the form of his wife that way. i can't remember any precedence of that though. correct me if i'm wrong.

Quote :

"Remember when Locke fell into the well and broke his leg? Christian came out and told him he had to turn the donkey wheel, then John asked him for help walking. Christian said something along the lines of "No John, I can't do that"."

the flaw i find in this is that you seem to imply that having a physical body gives him the ability to make it last a long time or whatever the logic is, and he definitely would've had christian's body in that case, so he should've been able to physically interact with locke. and unless he was already down in the well it would've had to have passed by sawyer, juliet and miles, but i guess it could have.

Quote :

"I may have been mistaken but after Eko found Yemi's body, didn't he go back a second time at some point and the body was missing? Maybe Smokey took his body before taking Yemi's shape too?"

this is exactly what happened.

Quote :

"And it's possible that when Ben called Smokey to take out the mercenaries, it took Alex's dead body with it."

this too.



[Edited on March 31, 2010 at 5:52 PM. Reason : .]

3/31/2010 5:40:55 PM

Quote :

" i can't remember any precedence of that though. correct me if i'm wrong."

ben's mom, right.

3/31/2010 6:27:46 PM

Quote :

"ben's mom, right."

i don't think ben had even gone outside the pylons at that point though, so i don't know how MiB would be able to take her form without her body being there or without coming into contact with ben first.

3/31/2010 6:32:32 PM

but he was on the otherside of the pylons. such as with richard he presumably looked at him and knew how to represent himself.

i really don't think the body has to be there. for MiB to be a tangible walking talking interacting entity then perhaps he has to have the body, but i don't think it is absolutely necessary.

i mean he didn't actually take john locke's body. john's body still exists and is even buried now.

3/31/2010 6:50:22 PM

After reading about ten posts, I'm glad cat finally pointed out that he doesn't actually take the bodies. I was about to post that.

Quote :

"^good catch"

not really a good catch when somebody says someting stupid trying to argue and then backtracks.


There doesn't have to be precedence for something to be likely. Its a tv show and they have revealed secrets before that there were no earlier "clues" or precedence for.

I'm on board with MIB being able to project himself without physically being in a place. How do you think he knows about everyones life off the island?

3/31/2010 7:46:44 PM

Quote :

"How do you think he knows about everyones life off the island?"

What does he know about people that he didn't inherit from dead Locke?

3/31/2010 7:50:11 PM

He knew about how Richard got to the island (love for his dying wife)

3/31/2010 7:54:55 PM

Maybe he knows because he was on the island when Richard got there

And because he's the smoke monster and he fucking scanned Richard's brain on the boat

I dunno

3/31/2010 7:57:07 PM

^ exactly. Keep in mind that ever since day one, he's been coming face to face with people and "scanning" their memories. It seems he's been learning about their entire lives in a matter of a minute or so.

3/31/2010 8:08:06 PM

Here's a wild thought. What if Room 23 was designed to 'un-evilfy' the MiB? A big brainwashing facility with messages like "God loves you as he loved Jacob", "We are the causes of our own suffering", and "Everything changes."

If Dharma could get a hold of MiB and strap him in and let him watch for a while, maybe he wouldn't be so hellbent on revenge towards Jacobs and his supposed manipulations of peoples' lives? Who knows, I'm just trying to figure out a reason for Room 23.

3/31/2010 8:26:21 PM

^ I think thats reading into it a bit too much. I think its just merely a Dharma experiment. With the exception of the "God loves you as he loved Jacob" line, that is interesting, I had forgotten about that.

And the preview does reveal a pretty big spoiler.


































The sub exploding. Which has been rumored to be killing off several major characters, including Sun.

























End spoiler

3/31/2010 8:41:47 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy-lWqaBs2w

Is that not the freighter

I'm pretty sure every single clip in that preview is from a previous episode

[Edited on March 31, 2010 at 8:49 PM. Reason : Defintely the freighter, you can see the damn chopper]

3/31/2010 8:48:29 PM

Quote :

"but he was on the otherside of the pylons. such as with richard he presumably looked at him and knew how to represent himself."

yeah but

Quote :

"Keep in mind that ever since day one, he's been coming face to face with people and "scanning" their memories."

and

Quote :

"And because he's the smoke monster and he fucking scanned Richard's brain on the boat"

so basically

he didn't scan ben, so how would he have known to manifest himself as an image of ben's mother? the smoke monster scanned eko before taking yemi's body, appearing before eko as yemi, and subsequently killing eko for his refusal to repent for his previous actions in life. he also scanned ben before taking the form of alex, who ben may not have had time to bury, thus allowing her body to be used by the smoke monster.

but the point you brought up about locke is the only thing that i don't get. if MiB is christian as well, that means he took yemi's, christian's, and presumably alex's body in order to manifest himself as those people. maybe all he needs to do is make some sort of contact with the body and not necessarily drag it off somewhere like he did with yemi and possibly christian, but i still don't know how he would've gotten to hydra island in the first place.

Quote :

"I'm glad cat finally pointed out that he doesn't actually take the bodies."

i know, don't feed the troll, but he does take the bodies in some cases. thanks for playing.

Quote :

"not really a good catch when somebody says someting stupid trying to argue and then backtracks."

well, it wasn't so much backtracking as pointing out something that doesn't make sense just yet in relation to MiB's implication that he can't traverse water. i never really retracted any "stupid" statements, but i wouldn't expect you to be able to come to logical conclusions about anything on this show or make that deduction from the nature of my post. or maybe you're just on the other end rubbing your palms together with the pathetic satisfaction you get from trolling.

Quote :

"I'm on board with MIB being able to project himself without physically being in a place"

i think i was the one who brought up that notion at the top of this page anyway, and someone else ran with it.

[Edited on March 31, 2010 at 8:51 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on March 31, 2010 at 8:52 PM. Reason : typo]

3/31/2010 8:51:20 PM

Quote :

"And the preview does reveal a pretty big spoiler"

lol. If if that were the sub (and i'm pretty sure it's not considering everything else in that preview is old and the freighter exploded), the only way that is a spoiler is if you know those rumors. those rumors are the spoiler, not what they showed in the preview.

3/31/2010 8:54:09 PM

haha how would you even mistake the freighter for the sub? one is big and surrounded by nothing in open water while the other is small and docked next to an island.

3/31/2010 8:56:19 PM

i'm pretty sure alex was buied. ben definitely knows the rules and there were three years between her death and when smokey appeared as her. and the smoke monster didn't scan richard before appearing as his wife. smokey was up top doing his thing while richard was down below. i'm thinking the same thing happened with ben's mother. i also believe that is why richard convinced ben not to walk out of the pylons because richard's job is to intervene.

3/31/2010 9:28:10 PM

heh. http://www.tvsquad.com/2010/03/31/lost-fans-lose-it-over-abcs-v-countdown-clock

3/31/2010 9:35:36 PM

^

Quote :

""In my opinion, 'V' needed to have a countdown clock that says 'New Lost' in 6 days 23 hours... Work on that for next week ABC "

3/31/2010 10:10:31 PM

Quote :

"and the smoke monster didn't scan richard before appearing as his wife. smokey was up top doing his thing while richard was down below."

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure it had already been down there, and we even had like a smokey point of view looking at richard. When he saw his wife, and heard him up above, he told her to run cause he had just witnessed it demolishing everyone else. I'm pretty sure, though not positive, that he had encountered richard while he was chained up, before his wife appeared.

That being said, she was down there while smokey was up above. So, I'm not really sure if that would work or not.

[Edited on March 31, 2010 at 10:50 PM. Reason : quoted the wrong text]

3/31/2010 10:48:38 PM

Yeah when it first killed everyone, it came down and stared Richard right in the face, then just left. It wasn't for a few days until his wife came in.

3/31/2010 11:43:20 PM

correct me if i'm being stupid but, isn't the alternate timeline what would have happened if the plane had just landed in LA, and weren't sun and jin already married at that point?

4/1/2010 8:36:13 AM

no, sun and jin are not married in the ALT.

4/1/2010 8:44:40 AM

^^seriously? Surely you jest.

In case you're serious... NO, the alternate timeline (as I understand it) changes everything after the moment the bomb was set off. So everything after 1970-whatever is different. That's why the underwater island still has Dharma barracks and Dharma sharks swimming around. Anything taking place after that moment (like Sun and Jin's relationship, Locke's relationship with his father, Sawyer's adult life, etc.) is subject to change.

[Edited on April 1, 2010 at 8:58 AM. Reason : ^'s]

4/1/2010 8:44:51 AM

the bomb didn't create the alternate timeline

4/1/2010 9:47:42 AM

right; the alternate timeline has always existed in parellel to the original timeline.

4/1/2010 9:50:26 AM

good god now I am lost.

4/1/2010 10:08:41 AM

Quote :

"the bomb didn't create the alternate timeline"

just wondering.. what did? in the alternate timeline the island is underwater.. it seems pretty sane to think that a nuclear bomb blowing up on the island could send it underwater (using the lost writers' concept of physics)

4/1/2010 10:20:34 AM

time travel, really? really?

4/1/2010 10:26:33 AM

The alternate timeline has always existed. I'd say it's probably a reality in which Jacob never visited the candidates. The bomb may have gone off in that world, it may not have, but it isn't a branch from reality #1 caused by the bomb.

4/1/2010 10:27:06 AM

Quote :

"The alternate timeline has always existed. I'd say it's probably a reality in which Jacob never visited the candidates. The bomb may have gone off in that world, it may not have, but it isn't a branch from reality #1 caused by the bomb."

again, not saying you're 100% wrong because i don't have the answers either, but you don't know for sure right now that the alternate timeline has always existed because there's no evidence to support that. it could end up being like the new star trek movie where the alternate reality was created when people started time traveling.

4/1/2010 12:04:31 PM

except that we had seen evidence of their time travel in the original timeline

4/1/2010 12:19:13 PM

^ yeah, but does that rule out the possibility that a single event could cause an alternate reality to exist?

4/1/2010 12:42:57 PM

The alternate reality was triggered when Date Mike detonated Vincent

4/1/2010 1:04:41 PM

Quote :

"The alternate timeline has always existed. I'd say it's probably a reality in which Jacob never visited the candidates. "

there could be an infinite number of realities that have already existed. that they show/"flash-forward us" to this particular, SPECIFIC reality in the episode immediately following the bomb going off to me seems to indicate... pretty clearly.. that this "reality" is tied to the bomb event.

not to say you're wrong, but I'm just using facts already at hand and not guessing at a surprise ending.

[Edited on April 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM. Reason : .]

4/1/2010 1:16:28 PM

Quote :

"The alternate reality was triggered when Date Mike detonated Vincent"

nice to meet me.

4/1/2010 1:21:26 PM

Quote :

" yeah, but does that rule out the possibility that a single event could cause an alternate reality to exist?"

I do not rule out the possibility that a single event could cause an alternate reality to exist, but i do rule out that this single event caused an alternate reality based on the evidence we've seen these events have taken place before.

4/1/2010 1:21:46 PM

i like the theory that the alternate timeline is the "true ending", where the characters find redemption after the island events conclude.

4/1/2010 1:27:40 PM

^I don't like that idea at all. I think you make a good point and respect that point of view, I just personally hope that's not the direction they take. I'm not invested in the alt. timeline characters. I've been spending the past few years following the island characters and don't really give a damn about the bizzaro world characters.

4/1/2010 1:32:12 PM

Quote :

"I do not rule out the possibility that a single event could cause an alternate reality to exist, but i do rule out that this single event caused an alternate reality based on the evidence we've seen these events have taken place before."

well that's fine. and by "this single event" do you mean jughead?

i'm just saying, and have been saying for some time, that you can't unequivocally state that the alternate timeline has always without a doubt existed and act like it's obvious when that's just one person's conclusion with no concrete evidence to support it. i won't believe it until it's made obvious that it has always existed.

4/1/2010 1:50:02 PM

^I'm with Rat Soup on this way. It is entirely possible that the alternate timeline has always existed, and it is entirely possible that an event or series of event caused it. We don't have enough clues yet to know. The "mirror" theory seems somewhat plausible, but it makes no sense for Locke's alt-timeline. Plus, the looking in the mirror might represent something different than "jumping" between timelines.

4/1/2010 1:54:45 PM

apparently damon lindelof tweeted this after tuesday's episode

Quote :

"In one week, the conversation is going to change."

i hate this show

4/1/2010 2:01:01 PM

what is the "mirror" theory exactly? I don't want to knock it until i'm sure i know what it is, but it sounds retarded to me. If there is any time-line jumping, it better not have shit to do with mirrors. Other than the mirror being some sort of foreshadowing or something.

4/1/2010 2:13:24 PM

dillydaliant I believe you misunderstand. Clearly some event caused the the varied outcome, whether that be the plane not crashing or something that is as of yet to be seen. regardless, i can say with certainty that the bomb is not what is responsible. this has been evinced by myriad events in this season and seasons past.


i am willing to bet up to 100 USD on this

4/1/2010 3:03:58 PM

it couldn't have been an event on the actual time-line. otherwise, it's a paradox.

Let's say the bomb, excuse me.. fission trigger, asbsolutely did go off on the 2nd time-line and neutralize the em pocket. The bomb couldn't have caused the variations in time-lines to begin because the bomb going off itself is different.

Either a new branch was caused by people going back to begin with, and that branch has a shared past (up until the point they went back to) with the original branch. Or it's a completely separate, parallel time-line.


I think it could be either, but I lean a little more toward the branch idea based on some old episodes (which I haven't seen in a very long time).

[Edited on April 1, 2010 at 3:41 PM. Reason : .]

4/1/2010 3:24:51 PM

i wonder if widmore somehow knows about the other timeline and desmond's ability to time or consciousness travel or whatever he does and intends to expose desmond to one of the pockets of EM energy on the island in order to make him shift between the two realities like he supposedly did in the season premiere

4/1/2010 4:58:27 PM