Face is goin' all Bruno Schulz on this thread.

12/4/2013 9:20:23 PM

Reposting from PP: http://www.backingthepack.com/2013/12/4/5174892/nc-state-wolfpack-football-recruiting-tob-fail

Technically the prognosis is even worse now with Thorton's legal troubles from yesterday.

12/6/2013 7:35:43 AM

Quote :

"Manny Stocker "

Quote :

"Dave Doeren tried to stash him and make up for lost development time by redshirting him this year."

I too would enjoy being redshirted to be Brissett's backup for a few years.

[Edited on December 6, 2013 at 8:05 AM. Reason : ss]

12/6/2013 8:04:13 AM

Quote :

"Before the concussion he was playing evans in the game. "

The concussion occurred I believe in the first half of the South Carolina game. RW started the game and played all the way to the concussion. Evans came in after.

Quote :

" And that still doesn't address the point that he did inherit Russell Wilson his first year and decided to not play him."

I don't blame him for that. TOB and RW both were brand new to the school, and TOB needed to make a good impression. Do you go with your older, incumbent QB that beat you and FSU the previous year, or gamble on an untested true freshman that no one knows how he'll play?

12/6/2013 9:55:36 AM

Quote :

"Reposting from PP: http://www.backingthepack.com/2013/12/4/5174892/nc-state-wolfpack-football-recruiting-tob-fail Technically the prognosis is even worse now with Thorton's legal troubles from yesterday."

This pretty much says everything we need to know. Yow fired O'Brien less for the results of his last season and more on the results in recruiting for the future. She pretty much said this IIRC. It's going to be a rebuild job for sure. I hope he can get some results sooner than later so the lunatic fringe doesn't lose their shit. He seems to be a pretty good football mind, so I'm willing to see him through a few more years for sure.

12/6/2013 10:10:20 AM

I look forward to more kickoff timeouts from that football mind.

12/6/2013 10:13:05 AM

[Edited on December 6, 2013 at 1:24 PM. Reason : double post - suspend]

12/6/2013 1:21:03 PM

Quote :

"The concussion occurred I believe in the first half of the South Carolina game. RW started the game and played all the way to the concussion. Evans came in after."

No, Evans played before the concussion.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=282412579&period=2

Quote :

"I don't blame him for that. TOB and RW both were brand new to the school, and TOB needed to make a good impression. Do you go with your older, incumbent QB that beat you and FSU the previous year, or gamble on an untested true freshman that no one knows how he'll play?"

It's pretty bad to miss a talent like Wilson.

[Edited on December 6, 2013 at 1:25 PM. Reason : ]

12/6/2013 1:22:49 PM

like all those recruiting sites ranking him a two star? and only a handful of schools even offering him out of high school?

hmm, just saw that he only had a 2.84 GPA coming out of high school? that's surprising.

[Edited on December 6, 2013 at 1:34 PM. Reason : ]

12/6/2013 1:30:55 PM

^ yeah i mean he probably hadn't grown into a golden god at that point

12/6/2013 1:34:47 PM

Quote :

"like all those recruiting sites ranking him a two star? and only a handful of schools even offering him out of high school? "

I'm probably missing details, but I thought he was only offered by a handful of schools because he insisted on playing both Football and Baseball. Most of the major schools wanted him to stick with a single cash sport.

12/6/2013 2:09:18 PM

Did it take that backingthepack article to convince you guys that this season says more about TOB than DD?

Did you guys not notice the inordinate number of our best players were TRUE FRESHMEN? I was saying this after the first few games, before we went into crisis mode. Crisis mode only made the point clearer. Maybe we just didn't have the talent because of TOB stripping the cupboards bare. And maybe it was hard to tell because he always had NFL QBs covering his inept ass, just like PRiv covered up chesty the clown's circus show.

Could TOB have gotten a couple more wins out of these guys than DD? Sure. If you change every philosophy and scheme the kids are used to, there are going to be bumps in the road. But wtf are a couple more wins worth anyway? When we're not going to have another PRiv, RW, or Gingraffe come through for a while, you have got to be pre-emptive with this. And Yow was. Her thinking consists of long-term foresight, not the knee-jerk reactions of the happyjerk armchair quarterbacks.

Does it mean DD is the answer? Who knows. We'll see in a couple years. But does it mean you stick with Les Robinson, Herb Sendek, Sidney Lowe, Clownshoes, and Cheddarrtooth? Heck no! You win or you die tryin!

12/6/2013 2:10:34 PM

All those sites watched film on him. TOB got to see him during practice.

12/6/2013 2:44:41 PM

Quote :

"But wtf are a couple more wins worth anyway"

lmao

you're joking right

12/6/2013 2:59:19 PM

^
Nope, that was a valid point.

12/6/2013 3:08:19 PM

i guess it's valid if you don't like winning.

YOU PLAY. TO WIN. THE GAME.

[Edited on December 6, 2013 at 3:09 PM. Reason : ]

12/6/2013 3:08:44 PM

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter if we would have beaten say, Wake this year. Or ECU this year. Firing TOB a season earlier to put our rebuilding process into gear was worth the couple of extra wins that he would have gotten us this season.

[Edited on December 6, 2013 at 3:14 PM. Reason : ]

12/6/2013 3:13:50 PM

^Agree

12/6/2013 3:14:59 PM

^^ding ding dong, dingalingadingdingdong

12/6/2013 3:38:45 PM

we must be tanking for that top draft pick right

makes sense

12/6/2013 3:44:25 PM

What's the point in keeping TOB one extra year just he can win 4 or 5 games and then get fired?

12/6/2013 3:47:09 PM

^^
Selling immediate playing time to recruits? I don't know what DD is thinking, but I do hope he is using that as a sales pitch

12/6/2013 3:48:47 PM

oh I get it now

winning 2 games and CDD are mutually exclusive in this scenario that we're discussing now

12/6/2013 3:50:10 PM

Most likely - yes

12/6/2013 4:17:56 PM

Quote :

"It's pretty bad to miss a talent like Wilson. "

haha....so when Tom O'Brien does something like redshirting a player, he's an idiot and this is somehow proof of his incompetence.



But when Doeren goes 3-9 and winless in conference play......it's because he's playing 3 dimensional chess and planning for the future!

12/6/2013 6:21:00 PM

JesusTFChrist, it need not be one way or the other... Doeren has been unimpressive this season, but just give him time to get his recruits in...

12/6/2013 7:13:38 PM

No need to get your feelings hurt, darling.



I've said on multiple occasions that he deserves more time. I'm just simply pointing out the double standard that his unconditional supporters seem to be demonstrating.


I support the guy. But my support is conditional, as it should be.

12/6/2013 7:25:44 PM

Quote :

"Firing TOB a season earlier to put our rebuilding process into gear was worth the couple of extra wins that he would have gotten us this season."

Except I don't think people are wondering what our W-L record would have been this year under TOB because they wanted him back. I think they made the comparison to say that TOB > DD and wasn't DD supposed to be a trade up?

Of course this and any argument falls apart because of the players being trained up from one terrible system to another terrible system.

12/6/2013 7:33:51 PM

can you blame them for wanting TOB back? look at the powerhouse coaching he brought to Virginia

12/6/2013 8:54:11 PM

Quote :

"haha....so when Tom O'Brien does something like redshirting a player, he's an idiot and this is somehow proof of his incompetence."

My initial point was he didn't inherit just Evans and Beck. He also got Wilson.

12/6/2013 9:37:31 PM

RW was committed but not signed when TOB was hired and took an official visit to Duke that spring. TOB could have cut bait on RW but chose to recruit him instead.

12/6/2013 9:48:51 PM

In the span of about 5 years Elliott Avent landed the best QB in the NFL, the best pitcher in the upcoming NFL draft and a Top 5 pick at Shortstop

Pretty impressive

[Edited on December 6, 2013 at 10:59 PM. Reason : s]

12/6/2013 10:58:53 PM

Quote :

"My initial point was he didn't inherit just Evans and Beck. He also got Wilson."

The idiot refuses to acknowledge that point. All he knows is TOB took a 3-9 team and molded that 3-9 team a 7+ win team, with the shitty Evans/Beck QB combo.

Quote :

"can you blame them for wanting TOB back? look at the powerhouse coaching he brought to Virginia"

Hahahahahahaha

12/6/2013 11:41:17 PM

NIU lost the MAC without DD. We hired Bear Bryant. We probably won't lose another game once he gets a qb like Lynch.

12/7/2013 1:33:24 AM

Quote :

"We hired Bear Bryant. We probably won't lose another game"

12/7/2013 3:16:39 AM

^ That was a waste of a post at 3 in the morning. Unless you're in a different time zone

12/7/2013 7:20:55 AM

Quote :

"My initial point was he didn't inherit just Evans and Beck. He also got Wilson"

You sure about that?

You said this as a criticism to TOB decision to redshirt Wilson:

Quote :

"Some - but he also elected to not play RW. He also decided during RW's first year to alternate between him and Evans."

Quote :

"It's pretty bad to miss a talent like Wilson."

You seem to be suggesting that O'Brien should have started Wilson fresh out of the gate.



But you also said this:

Quote :

"I think DD could of definitely done it. Instead he elected to use this year to install his system so it would pay off dividends down the line. He's trying to build a program - that requires seeing things in both the long and short term."

So which is it? Should both coaches have done everything in their power to win immediately (i.e. not redshirting and developing Russell Wilson for later down the line for O'Brien, and "installing a system" for Doeren.) Or should both coaches have planned for the future while trying to "build a program."


If you're going to let Doeren off the hook for this year because he's "trying to build a program" and we therefore will take some lumps, then I really don't how you can turn around and criticize O'Brien for redshirting a QB and playing his first season with weaker QB's (and winning more in the process with those QB's).


You need to develop a consistent set of rules to apply evenly to both coaches in your analysis. Otherwise you're just playing favorites.

12/7/2013 5:31:28 PM

Quote :

"So which is it? Should both coaches have done everything in their power to win immediately (i.e. not redshirting and developing Russell Wilson for later down the line for O'Brien, and "installing a system" for Doeren.) Or should both coaches have planned for the future while trying to "build a program." "

My main point was that TOB inherited Russell Wilson and did inherit a talent. However, whether you redshirt RW or not doesn't effect building for the long term. Installing your system ASAP for a bunch of players will. Completely different things.

Quote :

"If you're going to let Doeren off the hook for this year because he's "trying to build a program" and we therefore will take some lumps, then I really don't how you can turn around and criticize O'Brien for redshirting a QB and playing his first season with weaker QB's (and winning more in the process with those QB's)."

I'm holding them to the same standard. You're talking about two COMPLETELY different things.

Quote :

"You need to develop a consistent set of rules to apply evenly to both coaches in your analysis. Otherwise you're just playing favorites."

Again we're talking about about 1 year for 1 player. Not 1 system that effects 100s of players over the course of many years.

[Edited on December 7, 2013 at 6:19 PM. Reason : ]

12/7/2013 6:17:57 PM

One thing no one can argue is that we had the least amount of talent on the field this year in the ACC. Id be more upset if were were UVA who has some talent and sucked as bad as they did. You just dont win a lot of games when you take a bunch of non-BCS conference and fringe FBS talent that were recruited to play one style of football and make them all play a different style of football. The results of TOBs last 2 recruiting classes are laughable

12/7/2013 6:50:15 PM

yeah, but he went 5-7 his first year. Fact.

12/7/2013 9:24:25 PM

Did he win any conference games. Surely not.

12/7/2013 9:36:46 PM

Quote :

"whether you redshirt RW or not doesn't effect building for the long term"

Are you arguing that redshirting a player doesn't effect building for the long term?

12/7/2013 11:26:48 PM

I fucking hate this thread now

12/7/2013 11:31:41 PM

Quote :

"Are you arguing that redshirting a player doesn't effect building for the long term?"

Are you arguing that 1 year of 1 player will make a difference for a program over the long term?

12/8/2013 7:08:34 AM

I don't ever want to hear complaints about State fans not coming back after half.

12/8/2013 4:31:30 PM

^
I think people should really get over that comment...

12/9/2013 7:18:37 AM

If he can pull off a decent recruiting class after this shitty year...I'll be pretty impressed. Hopefully Brisset will be a complete 180 in terms of QB play and we can sneak into a bowl next year and the recruiting will get even better. Trying to be optimistic...which is easy because I'm pretty apathetic towards our football program right now.

12/9/2013 8:09:39 AM

I think coaches should win more than 3 games.....

12/9/2013 1:00:34 PM

How insightful.

12/9/2013 1:31:32 PM

Quote :

"Are you arguing that 1 year of 1 player will make a difference for a program over the long term?"

When fans fire coaches ever six years (and complain it isn't soon enough) then yes, one year does make a big difference to a program.

12/9/2013 1:45:31 PM