yeah, i guess you're right, except they never are discounted and there's no comparable mp3 player that costs more (this is not a negative, b/c they command a huge percentage of the hardware mp3 market, they can command their prices)

i'm just saying the marketing scheme sounds familiar (ringtones, portable video..etc.)

[Edited on January 7, 2008 at 9:13 PM. Reason : .]

1/7/2008 9:11:20 PM

the last nail in the coffin

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ea637496-bd8d-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1

1/7/2008 10:41:58 PM

can you post the article, don't feel like registering

1/7/2008 10:47:45 PM

It's actually a pretty speculative article. It doesn't cite any sources and really just sounds like one writers opinion. However, people are taking it seriously because The Financial Times reputation.

Quote :

"Paramount in HD DVD blow By Matthew Garrahan and Mariko Sanchanta in Las Vegas Published: January 8 2008 02:49 | Last updated: January 8 2008 02:49 Paramount is poised to drop its support of HD DVD after Warner Brothers’ recent backing of Sony’s Blu-ray technology, in a move that will sound the death knell of HD DVD and bring the home entertainment format war to a definitive end. Paramount and DreamWorks Animation, which makes the Shrek films, came out in support of HD DVD last summer, joining General Electric’s Universal Studios as the main backers of the Toshiba format. However, Paramount, which is owned by Viacom, is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp that would allow it to switch sides in the event of Warner Bros backing Blu-ray, according to people familiar with the situation. Paramount is set to have a bumper 2008 with several likely blockbusters, including the latest instalment in the Indiana Jones franchise. Paramount joining the Blu-ray camp would leave HD DVD likely to suffer the same fate as Sony’s now obsolete Betamax video technology, which lost out to VHS in a similar format war in the 1980s. Warners decision last week to throw its weight behind Blu-ray saw it join Walt Disney, 20th Century Fox and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer as backers of the Sony format. The Warners move gives Blu-ray about 70 per cent of Hollywood’s output, although the format’s grip on film content will increase further when Paramount comes aboard. It is unclear whether DreamWorks Animation has the same get-out clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp. However, Paramount and DreamWorks have a close relationship, with Paramount distributing DreamWorks Animation films. The two companies also signed their HD DVD contracts at the same time. Meanwhile, Universal has declined to comment on its next-generation DVD plans since the Warners move. Sir Howard Stringer, chief executive of Sony, on Monday held out an olive branch, saying the company would be “open to dialogue” with the HD DVD camp to “grow the market”. The move came as new figures showed that Blu-ray had opened up a decisive lead over the rival home entertainment format. Sir Howard said: “We are not going to push people around. We’ll talk to anyone ... we have a lot of work to do to grow the market. We’ll be systematic and open to dialogue at all times.” He added that Sony still had “a lot of work” to do to get Blu-ray “widely accepted” among American consumers. “With Warner’s support you saw billboards going up in different places and you saw television commercials getting more and more sophisticated and that’s what we’ll continue doing,” said Sir Howard."

1/7/2008 10:59:46 PM

Quote :

"He added that Sony still had “a lot of work” to do to get Blu-ray “widely accepted” among American consumers."

QFT

1/7/2008 11:06:24 PM

so when will i be able to buy a $300 PS3?

1/8/2008 12:53:13 AM

Tomorrow.

What the fuck kind of retarded question is that?

1/8/2008 1:01:32 AM

1/8/2008 1:13:49 AM

I wouldn't say it's too speculative. The Financial Times rarely makes statements like this unless they know what they're talking about:

Quote :

"However, Paramount, which is owned by Viacom, is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp that would allow it to switch sides in the event of Warner Bros backing Blu-ray, according to people familiar with the situation."

It sounds to me like they got that from someone within Paramount.

[Edited on January 8, 2008 at 8:24 AM. Reason : ]

1/8/2008 8:23:50 AM

i wonder if they have to give back the $150m

1/8/2008 9:09:40 AM

Quote :

"Tomorrow. What the fuck kind of retarded question is that?"

oh it wasn't a real question. i just wanted to see you get your pretty pink panties in a wad.

1/8/2008 10:29:15 AM

i wouldn't mind if hd dvd did lose (which looks inevitable over time). i still like it and i'll make my decent collection a huge collection and then add a ps3 or bluray player later.

1/8/2008 10:34:45 AM

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aQMGgh2LV_bU&refer=japan

Quote :

"Paramount Denies Report It Will Drop Toshiba's HD DVD (Update2) By Andy Fixmer and John Liu Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures denied a newspaper report that the studio is poised to follow Time Warner Inc. in abandoning Toshiba Corp.'s HD DVD technology. ``Paramount's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format,'' Brenda Ciccone, a spokeswoman for Paramount, said in an e-mail today. Toshiba, the leading promoter of the HD DVD format for high- definition video discs, fell in Tokyo trading after the Financial Times reported Paramount is poised to adopt Sony Corp.'s Blu-ray format instead. Paramount can defect because a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp allows the studio to switch to Blu-ray if Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc. dropped its support of Toshiba's standard, the newspaper reported today, citing unidentified people familiar with the plan. Warner Bros. said on Jan. 4 it would drop its support of HD DVD. Keisuke Ohmori, a spokesman for Tokyo-based Toshiba, said the report is speculative. Masayo Endo, a spokeswoman for Sony, declined to comment on the report. Toshiba's shares fell 0.1 percent to close at 782 yen on the Tokyo Stock Exchange after dropping as much as 1.3 percent. Sony's stock rose 3.4 percent. "

[Edited on January 8, 2008 at 12:09 PM. Reason : i don't believe it though, fwiw]

1/8/2008 12:09:09 PM

nah, hd-dvd is dead...paramount will drop it in short order

1/8/2008 12:41:44 PM

^^Yeah, I'll just say that Warner kept re-iterating it's commitment to HD DVD right up to the day it announced it was dropping it. In any case, the rumor still won't die and is even picking up steam.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Quote :

" Well... we've had SOME confirmation this morning of the details of the Financial Times story from last night. While the studio isn't yet commenting, reliable industry sources are telling us that Paramount is indeed preparing to end their HD-DVD support and announce a return to the Blu-ray fold. Details are currently being finalized, and an announcement is expected as soon as they're complete. Paramount's first new Blu-rays will almost certainly include many of those titles that were cancelled last year, but that were already packaged and ready for shipping, so you could see them in stores very quickly once the studio announces. Meanwhile, sources are telling us that Universal has also been talking with the BDA, and is looking to follow Paramount and Warner's lead as soon as possible."

Apparently the big box retailer stores are starting to exert pressure on Paramount and Universal as well, to go ahead and end this thing. The out clause mentioned in article apparently had the stipulation that Warner was to become HD DVD exclusive in Q1 2008. Obviously, thats not going to happen.

1/8/2008 1:12:00 PM

^ wait, so how can they legally go blu before Q2?

1/8/2008 1:16:30 PM

Errr, I meant the out clause Paramount has in the contract it made to become HD DVD exclusive. Apparently, if Warner didn't go HD DVD exclusive by Q1 2008, then Paramount can get out of the deal and start releasing on Blu-ray again.

1/8/2008 1:22:23 PM

^Apparently the big box retailer stores are starting to exert pressure on Paramount and Universal as well, to go ahead and end this thing. The out clause mentioned in article apparently had the stipulation that Warner was to become HD DVD exclusive in Q1 2008. Obviously, thats not going to happen.

1/8/2008 1:24:39 PM

The key word of that sentence is "in". If that's the exact way the deal is worded, they'll probably be able to hold them until Q2.

1/8/2008 2:00:45 PM

I'm guessing the clause in the legal contract is a little more specific than "in Q1 2008".

1/8/2008 2:15:48 PM

Yeah there's probably an actual date at which that condition has to be met or the contract is void. So maybe... end of march?

1/8/2008 2:21:27 PM

^^I guess we have no way of knowing what the contract actually says. I don't know where the 2008 Q1 date came from, anyway. I don't see it on the site Shrike linked.

1/8/2008 4:24:16 PM

It was from the insider information thread on AVS. Like I said, these are all just rumors.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12734907#post12734907

1/8/2008 4:37:36 PM

Quote :

"CES '08: Blu-ray could still end up on 360 Microsoft exec tells Reuters that if customers choose Sony's high-def disc format, the Xbox manufacturer might make an add-on for it. By Brendan Sinclair, GameSpot Posted Jan 8, 2008 5:26 pm PT At the Consumer Electronics Show two years ago, shortly after Microsoft announced the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360, the company's then-Xbox marketing executive Peter Moore admitted that a future add-on that would play Blu-ray discs was not out of the question, if the need for one arose. With Warner Bros. last week committing to produce Blu-ray movies exclusively, many industry watchers predicted that Sony's high-definition disc format--a prominent feature of the PlayStation 3--had scored a knockout punch on Toshiba's HD-DVD. At this year's CES, Microsoft's Xbox group marketing manager Albert Penello told Reuters today that the Warner move wasn't the end of the format wars, but acknowledged that his company is still keeping its options open. "It should be consumer choice; and if that's the way they vote, that's something we'll have to consider," Penello told the news service. While Penello downplayed the potential impact of the Warner deal on Xbox 360 sales, he acknowledged that it wasn't something the HD-DVD backing Microsoft had wanted to see. "You can't say it's not a bummer, not a setback, but I've seen this battle declared over so many times," Penello said, adding, "I want consumers to have a voice in this and I think there are a lot of consumers who bought HD-DVD who are going to have a say in how this shakes out." "

ps3 still can't win

1/9/2008 8:11:35 AM

So Microsoft is willing to pump out another expensive for the 360?? How gracious of them!

But wait... I thought XBOX Live HD downloads were the future, Bill Gates??

1/9/2008 9:20:31 AM

^ You're actively trying to rival gloveco as the biggest douche bag on here, aren't you?

1/9/2008 9:26:15 AM

Quote :

"So Microsoft is willing to pump out another expensive for the 360?? How gracious of them!"

what a retard. it doesn't even make sense.

1/9/2008 9:29:58 AM

That report is stupid anyway.

"Hey lets take a quote from an ex-Microsoft employee that he said 2 years ago and try to make it relevent to today." If anyone actually thinks that MS will release a BR-ROM drive, they really haven't been paying that much attention.

They are trying to own the digital download business. Everyone has pretty much so said all along that the HD-DVD addon was just a way to delay the war for as long as possible. But they are in a different war now. One that some people think is already over.

Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war

1/9/2008 9:35:10 AM

Quote :

"^ You're actively trying to rival gloveco as the biggest douche bag on here, aren't you?"

Fanatik is a harmless kid. You are the biggest douche bag in tech talk, but also harmless. It's almost like you are an alias of chance.

1/9/2008 9:47:11 AM

NO YOU ARE!

1/9/2008 9:47:57 AM

how cute.

1/9/2008 9:56:19 AM

you have the oddest way of replying to being called a troll....

on that note, blu-ray ftmfw

1/9/2008 10:01:29 AM

aww. that was sweet.

1/9/2008 10:10:49 AM

El Nachó, digital downloads have a long way to go in terms of consumer acceptance.

1/9/2008 10:31:19 AM

hey, if you guys are gonna argue this now, can we use a different term? "digital downloads" is grossly redundant, it's like saying "physical disc". i always thought you referred to it as digital distribution anyway.

1/9/2008 10:34:42 AM

i find it hard to imagine digital distribution prevailing over movies on disc any time in the next few years

i know it's a lot like CDs and digital music, but you'd need huge storage to rival even a modest HD disc collection and if you didn't have huge storage, you'd need a pretty decent broadband connection

the cost of storage is declining all the time, but if a HD movie is 50 GB, a terabyte drive is only going to store 20 movies

i'd say we'll be well into the 2010s before digital distribution starts overtaking HD discs

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 10:37 AM. Reason : s/download/distribution/g]

1/9/2008 10:36:00 AM

Quote :

"El Nachó, digital downloads have a long way to go in terms of consumer acceptance."

the consumer has already accepted this form of entertainment distribution. We are basically now in the waiting phase for better services to pop up.

But I guess you forgot all about On Demand.

Quote :

"i find it hard to imagine digital movies prevailing over movies on disc any time in the next few years i know it's a lot like CDs and digital music, but you'd need huge storage to rival even a modest HD disc collection and if you didn't have huge storage, you'd need a pretty decent broadband connection the cost of storage is declining all the time, but if a HD movie is 50 GB, a terabyte drive is only going to store 20 movies i'd say we'll be well into the 2010s before digital HD downloads start overtaking HD discs"

Renting HD movies doesn't require massive storage.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 10:37 AM. Reason : ,]

1/9/2008 10:36:04 AM

my on demand never works with twc...i guess i need to call them about that.

1/9/2008 10:37:32 AM

^back in the day when I had TWC i experienced problems with their on demand service as well. But this was years ago.

1/9/2008 10:39:23 AM

Quote :

"Renting HD movies doesn't require massive storage."

which is why I said, "if you didn't have huge storage, you'd need a pretty decent broadband connection"

how convenient do you think watching a 50 GB HD movie would be on today's average broadband connection? or even 2009 or 2010's average broadband connection? not very, i'd say

plus, there's a difference (in my mind at least) between renting/on demand and actually physically owning a movie

1/9/2008 10:41:43 AM

Quote :

"50 GB HD movie"

what are you watching? with a streamed version you can get almost anything under 4gb and most movies are less than 2gb in viewing form.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 10:44 AM. Reason : dvdshrink, xvid, etc, etc]

1/9/2008 10:43:49 AM

Quote :

"That report is stupid anyway. "Hey lets take a quote from an ex-Microsoft employee that he said 2 years ago and try to make it relevent to today." If anyone actually thinks that MS will release a BR-ROM drive, they really haven't been paying that much attention. They are trying to own the digital download business. Everyone has pretty much so said all along that the HD-DVD addon was just a way to delay the war for as long as possible. But they are in a different war now. One that some people think is already over. Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war "

The CEO of a STORAGE company is claiming digital downloads have 'won'. Wow, there's a shocker.

Quote :

"^ You're actively trying to rival gloveco as the biggest douche bag on here, aren't you?"

Actually, I was just trying to point out that:

a. This is old news (that comment came out last year)
b. It shouldn't be shocking to anyone that MS is willing to bleed 360 owners dry with their peripherals.


[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 10:56 AM. Reason : d]

1/9/2008 10:51:18 AM

Quote :

"which is why I said, "if you didn't have huge storage, you'd need a pretty decent broadband connection" how convenient do you think watching a 50 GB HD movie would be on today's average broadband connection? or even 2009 or 2010's average broadband connection? not very, i'd say plus, there's a difference (in my mind at least) between renting/on demand and actually physically owning a movie"

i rent HD movies all the time for digital download and not one has been remotely 50gb. And on my shitty TWC connection it downloads quite fast.

My latest download (last night) was a Disney HD movie on Xbox Live. Wonder how that happened...

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 10:53 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 10:53:05 AM

FWIW, a 720p xvid is (roughly) 700mb/hour...i don't know if this is correct, but wouldn't that mean that a 1080p xvid would be roughly 1050mb/hour? say the average movie is 2 hours long and you've got roughly 2.2gb/movie...that size includes (i think) a 2-channel 192kbps mp3 audio track, so i don't know what 5.1 AC3 would be at 192kbps (a good average, if you're talking about compressed video), but surely you'd be under 4gb

1/9/2008 10:55:32 AM

^i think they thought they would be downloading blu ray discs over the internet.

1/9/2008 10:56:40 AM

Quote :

"My latest download (last night) was a Disney HD movie on Xbox Live. Wonder how that happened..."

play it next to a Blu-Ray of the same movie and see how good it looks/sounds.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 10:58 AM. Reason : d]

1/9/2008 10:58:01 AM

^ haha

^^ Well, if you want to watch it in HD that hasn't been compressed so much that it looks like trash, then its going to be a hefty amount of space.

1/9/2008 11:00:37 AM

The problem with digital distribution of movies is that the content providers (ie. Hollywood) have this silly idea that their content should cost the same amount of money regardless of it's quality or how it's delivered. Now, this works for music because of the convenience/mobility factor and the fact that you can buy 1 song at a time (in other words, it's dirt cheap).

However, this just won't fly for movies. If you wanna be a sucker and pay $20 to download a movie when you can get a superior version on disc for the same amount of money, go right ahead, but you'll be in the minority. Wal-mart recently figured this out.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN2726104120071228

Quote :

"Download sales equaled about 1 percent of the $24.5 billion in DVD and home video sales and rentals in 2006, but industry experts expect downloads to grow to 10 percent within a decade."

People don't watch 2 hour movies on iPods, and for most, popping a disc into a drive slot is a helluva lot more convenient than whatever hoops they are gonna have to jump through to download a movie. Even renting is a bitch for most people because you only have it for 24 hours and are stuck watching it on the device you acquired it from. The bottom line is that we just aren't there yet.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 11:12 AM. Reason : :]

1/9/2008 11:01:15 AM

you're not gonna convince anyone. Now that HD-DVD is dead, downloads are MS fanboys' last hope.

1/9/2008 11:03:25 AM

maybe I just have an uber TV because I have yet to watch a downloaded HD movie that looks like trash.

Quote :

"you're not gonna convince anyone. Now that HD-DVD is dead, downloads are MS fanboys' last hope."

lol you are the village idiot of tech talk.

HD DVD had nothing to do with 'MS Fanboys'. If you took your head out of Sony's ass long enough you would know that Digital Downloads has always been MS's push. Which is the future of HD. IPTV FTW.

Quote :

"Even renting is bitch for most people because you only have it for 24 hours and are stuck watching it on the device you acquired it from. The bottom line is that we just aren't there yet."

incorrect. You have the movie for 2 weeks. If you start watching it then you have it for 24 hours.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 11:08 AM. Reason : .]

1/9/2008 11:05:08 AM