Quote :

"there weren't any developments."

uh, well

Quote :

"We found out that Desmond can still switch between timelines (but not willingly) and that the other timeline is some sort of life 'they never should've had' or some such nonsense."

i'd consider that a pretty significant development

Quote :

"So, what do we even take from this episode?"

memories of their other lives are beginning to bleed through. and eloise seems to know something just as she always has since season 3.

Quote :

"That alt timeline=bad and island timeline=good and Desmond has to keep them from detonating the bomb? Was that the point of this episode?"

no

i thought this might have been the most interesting episode so far. there was just a lot of content, and it probably benefits from multiple viewings.

4/6/2010 10:47:09 PM

Quote :

"This episode wasn't terrible, but again, there weren't any developments. We found out that Desmond can still switch between timelines (but not willingly) and that the other timeline is some sort of life 'they never should've had' or some such nonsense. So, what do we even take from this episode? That alt timeline=bad and island timeline=good and Desmond has to keep them from detonating the bomb? Was that the point of this episode?"

No developments? It's not that desmond still can... it's that he is doing it again. And this time, he's going to the timeline where the island is under water. And what is bad about it?

As far as developments, we now know that it's not just an epilogue. That it will play some role in the actual plot. I think a lot of people where expecting, or maybe more hoping that was the case, but now it's actually happening. I think it's a huge development, even for folks who kinda saw it coming.

Another big thing was that it was not just Desmond who's mind went back and forth. Both Charlie and Daniel had memories from their "island reality"-selves creep into their minds in the alternate reality. That's big, because it's not just desmond that it's happening to. It could happen with all of the losties.


In the original timeline, Eloise and Whidmore were constantly arranging things and Whidmore was funding Daniel's time/mind travel research. One of the old theories for that was that they (eloise and whidmore) were trying to cause something specific to happen... or not happen. It seemed like Eloise, in the new/alternate time-line, knew what was up. She knew who desmond was, why he was looking for penny, etc. For her the know the deal, it means the Whidmore's, or at least Eloise, know what is going on, even in the alternate time-line.

I think they've had this in mind all along. imo, the two realities are definitely going to come together some how. I'm a little surprised that desmond didn't mention the constant or anything like that, it's not the first time he's jumped back and forth. but maybe that will come up in the next episode or something.

4/6/2010 10:49:08 PM

there was not a lot of content. multiple viewings ? i would be more likely to watch blair witch project for a second time than that episode.

4/6/2010 10:49:17 PM

Good lord

There is no H in Widmore

4/6/2010 10:56:47 PM

Quote :

"there was not a lot of content. multiple viewings ? i would be more likely to watch blair witch project for a second time than that episode."

shut the fuck up. get the fuck out. your only other contribution to this thread was something about wanting your 40 minutes back a long time ago.

also

Quote :

"i wonder if widmore somehow knows about the other timeline and desmond's ability to time or consciousness travel or whatever he does and intends to expose desmond to one of the pockets of EM energy on the island in order to make him shift between the two realities like he supposedly did in the season premiere"

guess i wasn't 100% correct, but at least i was kind of on to something.

[Edited on April 6, 2010 at 11:04 PM. Reason : .]

4/6/2010 10:57:24 PM

Thanks for your kind words. You will not see me here again! I still maintain : That episode sucked.

4/6/2010 11:09:38 PM

^ don't care. go troll some other show's thread that you either don't watch or don't contribute enough to be thought of otherwise.

4/6/2010 11:11:51 PM

Quote :

"And this time, he's going to the timeline where the island is under water. And what is bad about it?"

the flash sideways or whatever was from one of the early seasons. I don't know which. The island wasn't underwater. Desmond was in some underwater dharma station & Charlie swam up.

I could be wrong bc I don't retain info abt shows or movies for long, but I'm pretty sure the island was not under water in that flash.

4/6/2010 11:12:49 PM

The island was underwater in the season premiere, which was the first of the flash-sideways.

4/6/2010 11:14:35 PM

^^ no, the flash sideways was desmond being in the alternate reality. the images of charlie and penny were from the other timeline coming through to a time when none of that happened.

[Edited on April 6, 2010 at 11:15 PM. Reason : .]

4/6/2010 11:15:15 PM

[Edited on April 6, 2010 at 11:16 PM. Reason : oic]

4/6/2010 11:16:17 PM

I see you guys' point. I could see how this episode could be significant. It just didn't pique my interest too much, for whatever reason, while I was watching it. I see how the aforementioned developments are significant, though. I'll have to watch this episode again. I feel like this was probably one of those episodes where there are a bunch of interesting small things.

4/7/2010 12:08:51 AM

Quote :

"It seemed like Eloise, in the new/alternate time-line, knew what was up. She knew who desmond was, why he was looking for penny, etc. For her the know the deal, it means the Whidmore's, or at least Eloise, know what is going on, even in the alternate time-line."

was it you who came up with the idea that desmond was reality-traveling on the 815 flight? i guess that's not the case (right?), but i wonder if maybe eloise is capable of shifting herself in and out of the alternate timelines. i'm sure that's a stretch, but she's fucking sketchy.

4/7/2010 12:32:30 AM

idk, maybe... there have been a lot of what ifs/speculation. But from tonight's episode, i think he was just regular old alternate-reality desmond on the plane... just randomly not sitting next to jack, then sitting next to him, then not again for no apparent reason.

Ellie (i like to think of her as the young Ellie, because she was hot) never shows her cards. An episode following old eloise would/could probably shed a lot of light on things. -- what was kind of interesting is that she seemed concerned about desmond's "visions." It seemed to be off schedule and she seemed concerned about that. In a more emotional way than her usual, somewhat cold delivery.


I can see why some people may not have found this episode that interesting, but i think it's setting some very important things up.

One thought I had was that maybe widmore is going to some how cause everyone's minds to jump. Given past episodes covering it, it wouldn't take long for htem to die... or be very confused. But... since Desmond can already go back and forth and is retaining memories from both places he'll be able to help explain everything in both places to the losties and help them find their constants. That could be why he wants the flight manifest, maybe he's going to try to gather everyone in the alternate-reality together. Then as they go back and forth, they'll be with each other for sure and with someone who knows what is going on and will be in both places to help. --- just an idea.

[Edited on April 7, 2010 at 2:42 AM. Reason : .]

4/7/2010 2:36:30 AM

^Agree about it being more of a set-up episode. The more I think about it, the more I liked what this episode brought. A few things...

Did anyone notice the eerie similarities between Desmond touching Penny's hand at the stadium and Jacob touching the Oceanic Six? I always assumed that Jacob's touch directed them toward the island and/or gave them powers (him touching Richard on the island would suggest the latter), but maybe this puts a new spin on Jacob's touch. Also, I got the sense that when Desmond touched Penny, the timelines were already starting to merge a bit and the alt-timeline is already on its way to being "corrected" to the original timeline. And I agree with the assessment that it will have something to do with Desmond explaining the constants to everyone.

Also, for those of who you have been arguing that the bomb didn't cause the alt-timeline--I think last night's episode offered a big piece of evidence that while the bomb going off may not have actually caused it, it was a huge factor in the differences between the two realities. That piece of evidence is that Faraday set that he "doesn't want to set off a bomb" because he wants the correct timeline.

4/7/2010 7:29:47 AM

my childhood friend's brother is the guy who got nuked at the beginning of the episode. he's a stunt man in LA but does a lot of work for LOST.

4/7/2010 7:38:12 AM

Quote :

"Also, for those of who you have been arguing that the bomb didn't cause the alt-timeline--I think last night's episode offered a big piece of evidence that while the bomb going off may not have actually caused it, it was a huge factor in the differences between the two realities. That piece of evidence is that Faraday set that he "doesn't want to set off a bomb" because he wants the correct timeline."

not only that, but he also said something like, "i think i already did," which to me sounded like the bomb definitely had an effect on the creation of this timeline.

4/7/2010 8:43:30 AM

So...way back in season 1 or 2, when Desmond and Jack run into each other in that same stadium where Penny was running, was that the island time line or the alternate time line? Any significance behind that or is it similar to the picture behind Widmore's desk last night...the scale with the black rock and white rock on it?

4/7/2010 9:13:11 AM

^ i don't think that was the other timeline. desmond was training for the race around the world that he wanted to do in order to gain widmore's approval. that wouldn't be necessary for bizarro desmond. penny also pulled up and met desmond at the stadium when that happened, and they didn't know each other when desmond found her in last night's episode.

[Edited on April 7, 2010 at 9:45 AM. Reason : penny]

4/7/2010 9:44:32 AM

I know it was a theory back in season 4, that the Looking Glass station was what let the sub pass between the rest of the world and the island (which otherwise seemed impossible to find unless I guess Jacob leads you to it?).

But what if it is some kind of portal between the two worlds (perhaps not physically, but for the consciousness of people who don't have Desmond's special gifts and don't want to attempt suicide in order to get a glimpse). Widmore said (referring to Desmond) "he is the only person I am aware of in either world who has survived a major electromagnetic event" suggesting that he is aware of this alternate reality as well. Eloise definitely knows something as well.

I don't think the bomb going off caused the other timeline per se, I think it had always been there, but the bomb going off shifted the consciousness of the survivors to the other world. People in the "real" timeline have no awareness of the other world, but people there sense something is wrong. So Desmond will have to sacrifice himself in some way during a second electromagnetic event to bring everyone's consciousness back. He will be their constant, similar to how Penny was his when he was flipping between the present and the past.

Maybe the smoke monster wants to escape to this world because he knows with the island underwater there, he could never be trapped again on the island.

4/7/2010 10:41:11 AM

^that really doesnt sound half bad.


also, couldn't we say jack, sawyer, kate, and jin survived a major electromagnetic event?

4/7/2010 11:00:54 AM

^^
"he is the only person I am aware of in either world who has survived a major electromagnetic event"

Did you record it? I don't think he said "either". I think he said "the world".

Only 5 new episodes left before Jack wakes up and says "it was all a dream".

4/7/2010 11:17:47 AM

Quote :

"Only 5 new episodes left before Jack Hurley wakes up and says "it was all a dream"."

fixed it

4/7/2010 11:23:50 AM

Quote :

"A couple weeks ago, after I got a little intel on tonight's episode, I floated the following theory to Damon: "Is it safe to say that at its very core Lost is a love story?" Damon replied: "You are the very first person ever to get the meaning of the show. Yes. It is a love story. Always has been... always will be."

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b175281_lost_redux_find_out_what_this_show.html

Oh Brotha.

4/7/2010 11:36:49 AM

I also love that "NEW' thrown in there in all the "only 5 NEW episodes left" so you know you're gonna have to endure weeks of reruns and clip shows at some point.

4/7/2010 11:40:58 AM

what?

4/7/2010 11:58:46 AM

This episode goes to show that Desmond is the most important character of the show. It's kind of ridiculous in that the entire first season is Desmond-less and he averages like 2 episodes a season, and isn't mentioned for 10 or so...

It's not just that Desmond is able to go between both realities...because it's not like he was able to freely...

It's that widmore was able to send Desmond's island-self to his side-flash-self through the EM generator.

Once the two realities crossed, they started blending together (Desmond watching both Charlies drown) and at that point Desmond became aware that there was something going on. Charlie, Daniel and Eloise help him figure out what's going on, but Desmond is the only person capable of tearing both realities apart and getting everyone back on track.

So really, Desmond's the key to everything going on...but we still don't know what the point of it all is...

4/7/2010 12:11:03 PM

I didn't think Desmond was on the Oceanic flight with Jack and everyone else? I thought he was already there from a boat accident? So when they did the side flash after he was put in the generator, it pretty made a whole new alternate life for him. Not one that would've been if the plane didn't crash like Jack's and the others of the original Oceanic flight.

4/7/2010 12:41:57 PM

Quote :

""he is the only person I am aware of in either world who has survived a major electromagnetic event" Did you record it? I don't think he said "either". I think he said "the world"."

Re-watched, and you're right, no "either"... I could have sworn I heard it but turned on closed captioning to be sure. Still I stand by the theory. How would Charles know there was anything for Desmond to see when he put him in the EM field if he hadn't seen it himself at some point? Plus they have been hitting us over the head with imagery of Through the Looking Glass... Jacob viewing the survivors through mirrors (maybe even viewing the other world through them), the looking glass station, episode White Rabbit, a lot of flash-sideways mirror images (Jack looking at his appendix scar in the mirror, Sawyer shattering the mirror), Jack's son was reading Alice in Wonderland etc.

4/7/2010 12:43:10 PM

Quote :

"But what if [The Looking Glass] is some kind of portal between the two worlds"

It isn't. You mention it later in your post--the constant. The constant is the portal between the two worlds. I don't know if everyone's constant is the same or if all the characters have their own individual constant, but I would say it's probably individual. That's why Desmond started going between timelines when he saw Charlie drown and why Faraday remembered the quantum physics equation when he saw Charlotte (red hair, blue eyes--has to be her). Everyone's constant is what will allow them to switch between realities. I think this will become clear in the coming episodes. This idea of constants would also fit in with Lindelof's statement a few posts up that Lost is a love story--that love is so powerful it can switch the characters between realities. Also, remember, there were many sweet moments when the constants were involved (i.e. all the "you are my constant" stuff).

Quote :

"I don't think the bomb going off caused the other timeline per se, I think it had always been there, but the bomb going off shifted the consciousness of the survivors to the other world. People in the "real" timeline have no awareness of the other world, but people there sense something is wrong. So Desmond will have to sacrifice himself in some way during a second electromagnetic event to bring everyone's consciousness back. "

Again, Faraday said in the alt-timeline something like "I don't want to set off a bomb...I think I already did." Unless there is a twist involved here, I think that makes it somewhat clear that the bomb had a huge impact on the existence of the alt-timeline. As I've stated earlier, I don't think the bomb CREATED the other timeline (I personally think that the time-travelling did), but I do believe the bomb is what caused a lot/most of the huge differences in the alt-timeline from the island one. As far as Des sacrificing himself, I think you're right that he'll have to make a sacrifice (Widmore said as much), but I don't think it will involve an EM event to bring everyone's consciousness to the island. We don't know that Des can switch other people's consciousness with EM energy--only his own.

Quote :

"He will be their constant, similar to how Penny was his when he was flipping between the present and the past."

Exactly. That's the portal.

Quote :

"Maybe the smoke monster wants to escape to this world because he knows with the island underwater there, he could never be trapped again on the island."

We don't know that the smoke monster wants to escape to the alt-world. We only know he wants to escape the island.

Quote :

"also, couldn't we say jack, sawyer, kate, and jin survived a major electromagnetic event?"

No, not for certain. I think it is possible that the second the bomb went off, they ceased to exist as time-travellers; they went back to the island in 2007 and back to their proper age in what we now know as the alt-world. If that makes any sense.

4/7/2010 12:43:27 PM

Quote :

"Re-watched, and you're right, no "either"... I could have sworn I heard it but turned on closed captioning to be sure. Still I stand by the theory. How would Charles know there was anything for Desmond to see when he put him in the EM field if he hadn't seen it himself at some point? Plus they have been hitting us over the head with imagery of Through the Looking Glass... Jacob viewing the survivors through mirrors (maybe even viewing the other world through them), the looking glass station, episode White Rabbit, a lot of flash-sideways mirror images (Jack looking at his appendix scar in the mirror, Sawyer shattering the mirror), Jack's son was reading Alice in Wonderland etc."

I can't believe I'm discussing this abortion of a plot, but if you notice, Widmore is confused by Desmond's attitude. Widmore wasn't expecting (and still doesn't know) that Desmond saw anything or traveled dimensions or something, only that he can survive the event.

Ernie, watch the commercial breaks during Lost where they tell you how many episodes are left in the series. Instead of "Only 5 episodes left", each says "Only 5 *new* episodes left", which is letting you know that they're going to play way more than 5 episodes before the finale, but only 5 of them will be new. Enjoy your clip shows.

4/7/2010 1:12:50 PM

Quote :

"How would Charles know there was anything for Desmond to see when he put him in the EM field if he hadn't seen it himself at some point?"

I don't know whether or not Widmore knew Desmond would start jumping back and forth. I thought he was just testing to make sure he could survive an EM event like that. I agree that Widmore looked surprised at Desmond's shift in attitude. Perhaps that resistance is what makes him crucial to capturing, harnessing, defeating, or containing the MiB (whatever Widmore's motives really are).

4/7/2010 1:53:12 PM

disco_stu, you see the upcoming schedule on IMDB. There are no reruns.

4/7/2010 1:55:06 PM

^ there's a break between the second-to-last episode and the 3 hour finale. that's all.

and yeah, widmore was just testing to see if desmond could survive, i don't think he intended to send him to the sideways reality.

4/7/2010 2:00:07 PM

I don't see a break

The air date of the finale is actually listed as 5/23 (?)

[Edited on April 7, 2010 at 2:05 PM. Reason : okay there's no new episode on 4/27]

4/7/2010 2:04:03 PM

Quote :

"http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b175281_lost_redux_find_out_what_this_show.html Oh Brotha."

last week i saw some quote from that woman, and she said something about how lindelof saif she was the first one to figure out what the show was really about, and she said it was, "awesome." give me a fucking break.

4/7/2010 2:39:21 PM

i think desmond had a change of heart and agreed to help widmore b/c he finally realized how to put an end to the stuff.

that's why he didn't bother resisting when sayid captured him. he is really against widmore still, but was acting like he was with him.

4/7/2010 7:31:28 PM

actually i think he changed his mind because of his love for penny.

4/7/2010 7:48:21 PM

So, when Des woke up after fainting at the stadium, he's fully aware of his island self and situation going on there so he's got a plan to fix everything. That right? I'm guessing as soon as he want up from his EM extravaganza, he understands what has to be done and is just playing along w/ Widmore for the time being.

4/7/2010 8:10:53 PM

4/7/2010 8:45:34 PM

Quote :

"he's fully aware of his island self and situation going on there so he's got a plan to fix everything. That right?"

certainly is a possibility. but I just think he came to appreciate his island-self through his alt-timeline self's misery -and now knows that he has to save the island (instead of fighting badly to get away from it).

4/7/2010 9:56:13 PM

i like this ep overall, but i am really tired of the editing/directing treating these dumbass obvious alt timeline reveals with suspense and expecting us to be surprised, i.e. widmore being desmond's boss, hawking being widmore's wife, etc

we get it, thanks are diff in this timeline, people have diff relationships but happen to know similar people. shocking.

4/7/2010 10:27:15 PM

New questions brought by this episode:

-In the alt. timeline, something is clearly up with Eloise. How does she know more than a normal person would and what are her motives for dissuading Desmond from seeking the truth?
-Daniel has a brief hallucination and writes down some quantum mechanics stuff. How does this little thing lead to his unusally accurate hypothesis about their situation? How did he know to reach out to Desmond?
-Why is Widmore's staff so...unquestioning? Clearly what they're doing is illegal and dangerous. They're not asking questions about what they're being asked to do - do they know whats going on?
-How did Said get past the sonic fence? How did he know to get Desmond? Why does Desmond go with Said so willingly, when he appeared to be completely on-board with Widmore's plan just moments earlier?

4/8/2010 11:29:39 AM

4/8/2010 11:34:15 AM

Quote :

"In the alt. timeline, something is clearly up with Eloise. How does she know more than a normal person would and what are her motives for dissuading Desmond from seeking the truth?"

I don't think she necessarily wants to dissuade him, entirely. I think she just was concerned that it was too soon. It seemed to me that she was much more, idk, concerned in this episode than in the past. In the past, on the regular time-line, she was much more pushy. She was kinda pushy here, but it seemed more worrisome and somewhat empathetic.

Quote :

"Daniel has a brief hallucination and writes down some quantum mechanics stuff. How does this little thing lead to his unusally accurate hypothesis about their situation? How did he know to reach out to Desmond?"

I think he knew the same way Charlie knew, well not exactly. Charlie and Desmond both had near death experiences, in which they saw their "loves" (claire? and penny). Daniel saw Charlotte at the museum. But both Charlie and Desmond had an idea based on that.

Of course, Daniel is a helluva lot smarter than Charlie. It's not like he's not smart as hell in the alternate time-line. He's just not a physicist. Instead he's a musician. iirc, he played piano as a child in the alt time but eloise told him he needed to focus his time on math and science.

I know it's not a concrete answer and is still suspect, but I don't know if there will be much more of an explanation than that.

Quote :

"-How did Said get past the sonic fence? How did he know to get Desmond? Why does Desmond go with Said so willingly, when he appeared to be completely on-board with Widmore's plan just moments earlier?"

I think he knew to take desmond because MiB told him there was something on the sub that the crew were guarding/hiding and wanted to know what it was/wanted it. He saw them drag Desmond out of the sub, maybe deduced that desmond was what they had locked up from the way they were handling him.

No clue about Desmond's intentions though. Sonic fence will probably just go unaddressed. Or he saw them enter a code when they took desmond through?

4/8/2010 12:00:07 PM

Crazy theory here....

Widmore's ultimate purpose on the island is to prevent blackie from leaving the island..... He needs Desmond to do something to get blackie into an electromagnetic field and KILL THAT BITCH!

4/8/2010 12:13:58 PM

what happens when fake locke/smoke monster gets put into an EM field? maybe that's his way "off"?

4/8/2010 12:18:40 PM

It wouldn't be that difficult for Sayid to get past the fences. They were a lot shorter than the regular pylons, he could easily have just leaned a log or something on of them and climbed over. There was that episode when Amy was leading Sawyer/Juliet/Miles/etc. to the Dharma campt in 1977, she put ear plugs in and went through the fence... Sayid could have plugged his ears somehow. Obviously fake Locke knows how the sonic fences affect people so he could have been like "Yo man, just stick your fingers in your ears when you go through them"

4/8/2010 1:54:03 PM

Quote :

"what happens when fake locke/smoke monster gets put into an EM field? maybe that's his way "off"?"

i think he's kind of depending on that plane as his way off

4/8/2010 1:57:57 PM

idk if i buy the plane business.

4/8/2010 2:02:24 PM