http://simple-night-21.heroku.com/ - has all the VODs for alllll of GSL.

Had a fun night tonight, titans78 and I played a bunch of 2v2s. Some were stupid losses but a bunch of entertaining games. Our last game was PTvPT on tarsonis, I decided to go for some proxy 2gate and when my 5 zealots went to work the two guys had made a giant wall all across both expos, so their mains were completely unprotected. After taking out an initial nexus I guess I tried to run my probe out and he ended up in the corner of the other guys main hiding since he couldnt get out the wall. So then I started cannoning in and making stalkers in their main while titans rained down marines from drops. Basically they built a giant wall for nothing and it was

10/2/2010 2:50:47 AM

Fruitseller 4tw!

10/2/2010 9:00:28 AM

I saw fruitseller and he is such a nerd jajajaja.

10/2/2010 12:00:05 PM

This is not a game that can be played after just ... I had just made 2 stalkers to join the rest of my army for a push. I then accidentally re-hotkeyed those 2 stalkers over my main army. As soon as I did that, the terran did a drop at my minerals. I hadn't realized that I re-hotkeyed my army so they didn't come back until after a pylon and gateway went down and I realized they hadn't moved. (I had my gateways and a couple of pylons behind my minerals to protect from drops too....)

I still beat the dude easily. He never expanded and his only attacks were drops which ended up always being preceded by a scan. I decided the most ironic way to beat him would be to send an observer before I did a drop.

10/2/2010 3:18:28 PM

i might get on after the oregon game

10/2/2010 10:10:47 PM

Playing today kindof figured out one of my biggest problems is that I'm just to eager to go for the instant win type play instead of the smart/more likely to win in the long term play.

For example, played a quick game this morning and have been doing the hatch at choke play I mentioned last page. I really like how it works, been delaying the queen, getting a quicker lair. Then when lair is about halfway I've been grabbing the queen from the 2nd in base hatch. From there typically found I can go one base spreed roach and either hit or expand with about 10 roaches/6-8 lings which I'll either go baneling or tech from there. Nice thing is that the 2nd hatch in base helps to spread the creep as well so you almost get complete main to your natural creep coverage without expanding the creep at all.

But anyway, in this game against terran he looks to be going MM/Tank. Instead of just doing roach baneling which I know will win me the game, I decide I'll go muta and surprise him and win the game faster. Well he never actually scouted the mutas but just being a conservative player he had turreted up and then I'm stuck trying to defend a thor/MM tank push with 10 mutas and roaches just starting to come out. If I had just pumped speed roaches and banelings I'd have run him into the ground. Going for mutas delayed roach speed and used up the extra gas I would have had to put toward the banes.

I do crap like that all the time. Guess I'm just not one of those players that can do the same build and strategy game in and game out, but then I can't be mad when I do dumb shit and lose to someone who does the same MMM or 4 gate game in and game out and has it down to a science.

10/4/2010 1:25:22 PM

had to take a break from sc2 and played some l4d2, good shit and they got a new official map coming out tomorrow.

In other news, got good Colonial Wars team lately, been raping people left and right with good teamwork, definitely helping me out with learning proper counters, abit different health and weapon dps.

10/4/2010 2:37:52 PM

^^That's how I learned how to play Warcraft 2 really well. I would go for the rush or a tower rush every game. Some games it would work, and some games it wouldn't. If my rush failed, I ended up not knowing what to do. But, overtime, as I watched what other people did after rushing, I learned that the rush is just a way to transition into the later game while attempting to slow the opponent down. Granted, all of this is exponentially simpler than SC2, but the same theme should apply. You eventually get this feel for the game when you know roughly when everything happens. (I still haven't quite hit that point yet, but SC2 is a fairly complicated game.)

10/4/2010 3:07:55 PM

Yeah I understand that with a young game people will pick a strategy like 4 gate, or a MM 50 supply timing push that they can basically cooking cutter against a wide range of builds, and any of the races and have success, if not quite a bit if they get good at it.

I did that with original SC. Climbed pretty high in the ladder by doing a one base hydra build when Zerg was really OP.

Probably why I've settled into playing Zerg, it is the most reactionary of the races as it stands now so rarely can you go into a game with a set plan with no regard to what your opponent does, which can be done with both the other races for the most part. Still doesn't excuse the fact that I do dumb all in moves way to often because I decide I don't feel like playing a long game so I'll either win with this drop or Muta rush or end up losing if it doesn't work.

10/4/2010 4:45:12 PM

Quote :

"it is the most reactionary of the races as it stands now "

Quite right sir

10/4/2010 5:00:50 PM

problem with zerg being so reactionary is that it leaves all but the tip top players exposed to lot of strats from other races. like phoenix play forces zergs to react with either more queens or mass hydra. Most people going for that phoenix harass want you to go for that hydra play, because they plan on exploiting it by switching to collusi.

one of my goals in a 1v1 is to play aggressively enough that i'm forcing them to do things, and then i want to exploit what i'm making them do. but i never try to do what i consider all in builds (cannon rush, proxy gateways, void all in, etc. I don't consider 2 gate or 4 gate to be all in because of how safe they are against so many things, and how easily you can transition out)

[Edited on October 4, 2010 at 5:15 PM. Reason : asdfg]

10/4/2010 5:13:49 PM

I try and do the same thing with terran 1v1. Build 2-3 reapers to hit and run on the mineral line, while making marauders which will kill just about any tier 1 unit that they make to deal with reapers. Honestly being able to reaper harass got me most of my wins, that 5 second patch increase really doesn't change anything. It lets you scout and forces the other player to be defensive. I can see why people consider terran the strongest/op race, it's really versatile.

10/4/2010 5:39:38 PM

after learning how to stop reapers they don't really bother me. but a concussive shell marauder rush will screw up a ton of protoss players. you need a lot of zealots and stalkers to deal with it.

10/4/2010 6:05:01 PM

Yeah I think that is what at the heart of the OP terran issue, very easy tech changes, and those changes lead to counters of the previous unit. Also the hardest race to scout.

Someone brought up a great point on the forum, why do the barrack and factory only allow marine/helion w/ the reactor but the starport you can do medivacs and vikings. Should only be vikings, medivacs should need a tech lab. This would help a ton with scouting terran, and make it so you have to choose a bit more of how to spend resources.

But yeah now when I play terran I'm generally thinking 2 counters ahead. Is it all in reapers, or just a few reapers setting up the Maurader in which case I might stay w/ speed lings/baneling muta which works better than roaches. I'm sure the other races are going to get a boost with the expansions. Lurkers will be a boost for Zerg if they are added in and work in a similar capacity as they did in SC. Terran really should get no units in the expansions, they already seem so much further ahead than the other 2.

------------

Also, just one of those tricks that I figured out not long ago and not sure if I'm just late to getting it or what, but I just played a game and the guy kept asking me what my race was. I had picked zerg, but told him just check top right. If you click on the icon in the top right where you can go to give your partner control of units it tells you what the races of the other players are, or if they picked random. So if you miss the startup screen you can just click the top right little icon and it will tell you their races.

[Edited on October 5, 2010 at 8:25 AM. Reason : maybe obvious but just passing along.]

10/5/2010 8:14:09 AM

Thanks for the tip, I actually didnt realize that. My partner and I say "shit, do you remember the races?" more often than not.

10/5/2010 12:41:29 PM

I agree on the medivac needed tech lab thing. That would make collusi a better counter to MMM as they wouldn't be able to quickly switch from medivacs to double producing vikings without giving something up. It's pretty ridiculous that what should be the best counter to MMM as protoss is so easily countered after they see it because they already have all the buildings in place to get enough vikings to snipe the collusi.

10/5/2010 3:29:00 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAhJX8tG2_8

tester showing INCREDIBLE control.

I thought he left oGs though, so it might be an old replay.

10/6/2010 12:56:41 AM

You know whats another major flaw of terran imo - how come reapers are allowed to blindly jump up high ground. Blink stalkers can't do it. You can't toss infested terrans up high ground, both protoss and zerg require having vision in order to do so. I think it would correct the biggest problem with reapers, you don't really know where they are coming from. It would force a terran who wants to reaper rush to use an early scan in order to get his reapers up the high ground.

Don't get me wrong, reapers aren't all too bad to stop, but they are pretty powerful all the same and it would allow for more economic openings for zerg.

10/6/2010 6:22:52 AM

So how do you guys stop reapers? Just position forces along your mineral lines?

10/6/2010 7:46:51 AM

I don't think it is a flaw that the reapers can jump up without vision. It is part of what allows you to stop reapers because they jump up blindly and don't know what you have waiting. The game seems pretty consistent... to warp or Blink some place you need to see that location(or to place like a nydus) vs. a reaper more or less just climbing up a wall. It is the same idea as the colossus being able to walk up cliffs without vision.

What race are you trying to stop reapers? They sorta suck now, it is amazing what 5 seconds can do to a unit.

Toss - Gate/Core build a stalker and put near minerals if you think reapers are coming. 1 stalker will stop reapers pretty easy.

Terran - Can be tougher if you are teching but a helion works nice, or maurader w/ shell. Should be able to get shell by the time reapers arrive.

Zerg - Speed lings, roaches on creep, 2 queens all work well. You use to see a ton of reapers playing as zerg vs. terran but that has seemed to die out.

Been on a pretty good run 1v1 lately, up to 1100 points. Really getting my zerg builds down. Did lose today to one base 3 gate/robo and he pushed with 2 colosi and some ground units. I went roaches and should have gone ling/muta. That was a pretty nice little attack by the toss, very effective, fried the roaches. Although I made a dumb mistake and fought him in a weird choke spot and should have backed up. I always have to remember with roaches to try to fight in more open space because their range is so short. Against some units you can just run up close and attack, but vs. colosi it just balled them up and made it easy to kill.

10/6/2010 9:11:38 AM

the stalker advice is a good one. I'll have to try that. Always get pissed off when the other side try to do reaper rape specially on the reaper friendly maps, but I still tend to play 95% custom maps and never play 1v1. Not good enough or have enough confidence to play.

10/6/2010 9:19:41 AM

Yeah Ego is more of the resident toss expert, but when I do play toss vs. terran I'll typically block choke(leave room big enough for just 1 unit) and not make any zealots and go straight for a stalker followed by a sentry.

Just be sure to scout and make sure you aren't getting some sort of proxy marine garbage where you'll need an early zealot but typically you can just go straight for stalkers. The early sentry will also help for a bit later reaper rush since they handle reapers well too and if they try to do an early like 2 marine 4 maurader that force field will save you. By then you should have 2-3 gates up if not 4 and just pump whatever it is you need. I like to put that first stalker to a spot about halfway from my choke and minerals. Also up your warp gates right when your core is done.

For anyone looking to have some fun in 2s, resource trading can work pretty well if you haven't tried some of the following : Both Pick Terran, one go 4 barrack marines(mine both your gas but only spend gas to get your barrack upgrades) and the other rush for Banshee w/ 2 starports. Have the marine builder feed all gas to the banshee builder. Can get a lot of banshees fast and while you hit the backside with those marines can hit front. Can do exact same thing with Zerg, one go speed lings other mutas(works very well because you can get like 12 mutas out of one base really early). Last one would be toss and go zealot/void ray. Works well for 2 reasons, 1 - Makes sure you are using up all possible resources early game. Nothing I hate more than when my partner leaves and I see he had like 2000 gas I could have used. 2 - Allows you to focus on just one unit and one set of micro. Instead of having to harras with mutas and control lings, one just pumps the lings the other worries about the mutas etc. Obviously you can mix and match as well, like go marines/mutas but seems to work well with double race.

10/6/2010 10:33:39 AM

I can't for the likes of me be able to use my resources when playing terran or zerg fast enough. I can get my econ up for all three, but only know what the hell I'm doing with toss. But then again, I'm not the fastest micro manager to get the optimum forces on the fly. I tend to like to have long games but can repel rushes fairly well and get my first expansion fast. After that, it's more or less up to my team mate to carry my burden of the lack of forces since I can't counter worth shit in normal games fast enough to matter.

Would love to play some 2v2 and learn to do some actual team work this fall break if anyone is up to do.

10/6/2010 10:48:57 AM

Im always up for twos when I am on. Unfortunately ive been working a ton lately but ill be off for a while starting the 22nd which will be nice. I really had two issues when i first started zerg - one was really stupid, i didnt know about attack move. The other was bad macro, now that I have that down I flew from silver to plat/diamond. My advice as zerg is just constantly inject, set all your hatches to one hotkey. I also build an in base hatch soon after my expand, i can pump out units pretty constantly with 3 queens/3hatches. I do want to start playing around with titans extra hatch idea but i want to put it at the base of my ramp.

10/6/2010 11:26:59 AM

My buddy and I are looking for a 3rd and possibly a 4th to do Day9's Funday Monday thing. If you are unsure of what that is for the next Monday, it is 3v3 or 4v4 where each player on the team is only allowed to go one unit and they must announce that unit to the opposing team at the beginning of the game. Also, I believe he mentioned that he prefers non core units (marine/marauder/stalker/etc.).

10/6/2010 11:38:04 AM

I'd be interested depending on when you were looking to do it.

10/6/2010 12:15:53 PM

^^ I'd be game for it. I'm usually on most evenings but sounds fun. Let me know if you need me.

Mass infestor/medivacs/archons/ghosts FTW!

10/6/2010 1:44:43 PM

We're probably going to hop on this evening and do it. He and I play protoss. Though, I guess it really won't be hard to switch since it's just amassing one unit. I was playing around with the idea of me going just mothership and placing cannons everywhere. Anyways, as long as you guys are on whatever list that has all of the TWW players, then I'll add you when we get on this evening.

10/6/2010 2:46:17 PM

^^I'll join up later too

Quote :

"Yeah Ego is more of the resident toss expert, but when I do play toss vs. terran I'll typically block choke(leave room big enough for just 1 unit) and not make any zealots and go straight for a stalker followed by a sentry. Just be sure to scout and make sure you aren't getting some sort of proxy marine garbage where you'll need an early zealot but typically you can just go straight for stalkers. The early sentry will also help for a bit later reaper rush since they handle reapers well too and if they try to do an early like 2 marine 4 maurader that force field will save you. By then you should have 2-3 gates up if not 4 and just pump whatever it is you need. I like to put that first stalker to a spot about halfway from my choke and minerals. Also up your warp gates right when your core is done."

At higher levels you don't wanna block choke against Terran or Toss. It's just way too easy for a good player to abuse it. It makes it harder to defend bigger pushes.

Go 9 pylon, 12 or 13 gate (if everything is fluid it'll be 13, but if you aren't super smooth you'll have the money at 12), 14 gas, 16 pylon, 18 core. As soon as the gate finishes build a zealot. As soon as the core finishes build a stalker, then a sentry. Try to get Warpgate started as soon as possible, and if he denies scouting don't be afraid to go 2 gate robo and chrono boost out an observer. That's HuK's standard PvT.

Against early terran pressure you want to forcefield half the army inside your ramp, use it to keep them from retreating. Ideally the zealots are meatshields

[Edited on October 6, 2010 at 6:11 PM. Reason : asdf]

10/6/2010 6:08:55 PM

Getting on now, if anyone wants to play or do that 3v3/4v4 for the daily Hit me up.

this hasn't been posted in a while:

Tww username: name.character code
Azaka: Azaka.422
BigEgo: ProtisRobit.535
titans78: FLuE.301
Lokken: Lokken.762
JCE2011:AdmiralHaket.306
icyhotpatch: Unity.156
JBaz: JBaz.283
Stimwalt: Stimwalt.306
slackerb: slackerb.591
Doss2k: Doss.357
Doss2k friend: Phoebetor.944
Fry: Lionhart.667
sprocket: sprocket.441
dzags18:zags.414
Wolfmarsh: Lazarus.765

10/6/2010 8:34:53 PM

My name is SkeeterRump but I don't play anymore (since I sucked balls when I tried to play). I might come back sooner or later if so I will let you know.

10/6/2010 8:39:40 PM

So, what unit composition did you guys end up doing?

10/7/2010 10:32:41 AM

We ended up with like 4-5 to submit.

We stunk at first trying to do it, typically losing to some rush or like not actually covering all types of units(Like the one game where we had nothing that could hit air) but once we got on a roll we actually started winning.

I think we did most all fun combos you can think of. We must have played at least 6 games doing it so hard to remember all the specific combinations.

Ego typically went mass pheonix... and would end up with a ton of them which are pretty devestating in that large of numbers. I tried mass sentry(no good) cracklings, mass spine crawlers which was my personal favorite, mass ultras, and mass reapers. Mass reapers was pretty cool, had like 30 of them at one point and that will take a base down in no time especially when they are backed by 20 immortals. That might have been our best, pheonix, muta, reaper, immortal was that game I believe.

The funny thing was it was actually pretty effective because you had to only focus on micro with one specific unit type and only had one responsibility. The key was that without any tier 1 units we just had to survive the first 5 min or so and we were so far ahead in tech it was easy to win.

10/7/2010 11:43:51 AM

BTW, for those of you that couldn't figure it out just by guessing, mass archon is TERRIBLE. Do not suggest trying it.

I think I went mass phoenix in like 7 of the games we played, and if you didn't know, because the typical zerg in 4v4 goes mass muta and the typical bad protoss goes straight for voids it can be very easy to get air control if you get enough phoenix. i was doing some drone harass, but not a ton just because people either went mass static AA or my phoenix would glitch and stay in gravity lift mode after the thing it lifted died.

If I remember right the best game we had was reaper, roach, immortal, phoenix. most dominate was probably the ultra, phoenix, immortal, baneling game.

10/7/2010 12:48:11 PM

Yeah we had a lot of fun with it. I think we only lost two, both cases we got rushed. In any game where the other team attempted to tech at all they got straight rolled. We had a few pretty fun ones, I was cracking up with the spinecrawlers. Some poor terran pushes out with some bio and gets raped by 15 spinecrawlers and immortals. Also had a good one with baneling/crackling/broodlord/phoenix where we didnt use normal zerglings, only attacked with the blings and cracklings.

10/7/2010 2:37:14 PM

Quote :

"we didnt use normal zerglings, only attacked with the blings and cracklings."

that is pretty common.

10/7/2010 2:52:07 PM

^ 5 hatch baneling/crackling(that is the fully upgraded lings, not just speedlings but + attack too) is common? 10 minutes into a game?

10/7/2010 3:07:01 PM

hahah that spinecrawler push game was hillarious. everyone on their team cannoned up the mineral lines so i couldn't do much with my phoenix except try to support you guys, and i was lifting lings off of their cannons (total waste of energy but i had nothing else to spend it on)

there was another game where i somehow killed 5 buildings despite building nothing but phoenix.

i think we lost like one game after I started walling myself in completely. lings can't get in if there's no room for ground units at my choke. one game really sucked because they ling pushed and got in right when my first phoenix came out.

[Edited on October 7, 2010 at 3:18 PM. Reason : asdfg]

10/7/2010 3:18:02 PM

Feel like Day9 is going to get like 10000 replay submissions on this one because of how fun it was.

10/7/2010 3:38:48 PM

i'll probably be on tonight after the office if you guys wanna make more submissions. i wanna try all high temp.

does it count if I morph an archon from the high temp?

10/7/2010 3:57:44 PM

I'm still tryin to get in on this one. I want to do a mothership/cannon push. It should leave me with plenty of extra gas and minerals to spread to teammates.

10/7/2010 4:06:34 PM

will be back on tonight after 8 if you want to jump in and see if we can do it w/ 3s or 4s.

10/7/2010 4:45:27 PM

Yeah I'd be down. Hopefully I'll be sober enough to play decently...then again I don't think my build will require much thought.

10/7/2010 4:58:04 PM

i wonder how fast i can 4 gate HT....

10/7/2010 5:07:51 PM

^If I went like 3 hatch queens and then just fed you gas could work.

10/7/2010 5:16:08 PM

Quote :

"that is pretty common."

Except for the fact that titans didn't use his lings at all until they were cracklings, and I didn't use anything but banelings. Meaning after using a mob of banelings to bust the very close position terran and he pushed back with some marauders and marines I ran my lings away while waiting to morph in banelings, despite the fact that my lings could have killed them.

That is not common.

Also lulz was the army strength graph from a game where titans went ultras. He didnt build anything at all until all of a sudden he throws out like 15 ultras, on the graph he went from the very bottom to double everyone else instantly, hilarity.

10/7/2010 5:35:50 PM

Big changes coming in the next patch: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/882511

Reapers to be basically worthless. As a terran player, I'm ok w/ most of these, EXCEPT the supply depot thing. REALLY bad move imo

10/7/2010 5:54:50 PM

Quote :

"We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game. • Fungal Growth will now prevent Blink, which will give zerg a way to stop endlessly Blinking stalkers which can be very challenging to deal with in large numbers. • The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes. • The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games. • We're making a number of increases to the health of zerg buildings, which will make the very vulnerable zerg technology structures more resistant to raids. We don't expect these hit point changes to have a super significant impact on the game, but the current numbers felt way too low."

excited about roach range.

The barracks and reaper speed nerfs are quite stunning to me.

10/7/2010 7:20:56 PM

Yeah I'm not really sure what to think of this. I really hope the roach range upgrade is to 5 though I would be more then happy with 4, but I guess this tosses out the window the idea of roaches getting armor 2 again.

I like the reaper downgrade though I think it needs to apply to concussion shells as well, plus stim needs to take a large % of marauder health... but this is a good step in the right direction.

Now as for depot before rax, not sure what I think about that, but I don't play terran enough to really address it.

10/7/2010 7:38:37 PM

being a zerg player, a nerf to the other races is always good. but if you ask me, the single biggest issue with zerg is the lack of early anti-air. i love roaches as a unit, but i never use them at the time they're at their best - early - because it leaves me way too open to banshees or early voids. I think it would be awesome if there were a really weak anti-air unit you could build from the spawning pool...vis a vis the scourge from SC1. i wonder how much the units available to each race will change with the next two releases.

10/7/2010 7:40:01 PM