GingaNinja I can agree with that. The Glazers have been helped by Sir Alex but that doesn't mean they are bad owners. The ideal situation would be to be debt free but at the same time the Glazers aren't exactly running the club to the ground either. Some of these marketing deals they have made have been spectacular. I have been happy with the transfers and we have been successful. No matter what once Sir Alex steps down the club will be taking a step back. I wouldn't be surprised if the Glazers sell the club and cash in on the success the club.

4/30/2013 3:33:51 PM

who pays 50 pounds to watch QPR game?

4/30/2013 4:44:41 PM

One could say that whoever is behind wazza31 and GingaNinja, certainly does meddle in trolling.

GTFO MEDDLER.

[Edited on April 30, 2013 at 9:21 PM. Reason : meddling]

4/30/2013 9:20:18 PM

"I don't agree with what you are saying." = Trolling.

Flawless logic for the dimwits.

4/30/2013 10:51:50 PM

4/30/2013 10:55:05 PM

4/30/2013 11:19:29 PM

Hanging on in quiet desperation
Is the Scouser way

23 years have gone
The song is over
Thought I'd something more to say

4/30/2013 11:20:04 PM

Tarun more importantly
Who the hell wants to pay £30 for stoke?

I wouldn't go watch stoke even if it was free

5/1/2013 12:18:54 AM

[Edited on May 1, 2013 at 8:01 AM. Reason : COYS]

5/1/2013 8:00:06 AM

^^^
meh, waiting for Liverpool to be bad-ass again (and for United to be mediocre) is like waiting for your soulmate to finally enter your life

it's going to happen at some point, you figure...but if you sit there and consciously wait for it, you might find yourself waiting a long time

still, it will happen eventually. I optimistically predict United to began a general decline as soon as Fergie departs

and the Reds will rise again

5/1/2013 12:29:37 PM

^^

So normal ppl infact do use the word "meddling". FAIL!

[Edited on May 1, 2013 at 2:35 PM. Reason : ...]

5/1/2013 2:35:29 PM

Just want to point out a few things:


1. I'm United through and through, but I don't for one second think that the Glazers are good for United. I think that leveraged debt is sustainable and generally a good business plan, but you can't seriously think that the Glazers are somehow not holding United back by taking millions off the top, when a publicly owned/traded model is in evidence and works well for teams like Barca, Madrid, and Bayern. A collective is always going to have the best interests of the club at heart - while owners like the Glazers, Abramovich, et al are always going to have their own best interests at heart. We just happen to be lucky at the moment because the team is making money and that's in the Glazers' best interest. So while they may be "great businessmen," they don't love the club and will leave it floundering at the first opportunity. That's fine for a business, but fuck if I will ever think that's ok for the club I support.


2. RE:

City - Trophies - FA Cup, BPL title
Chelsea - Trophies - FA Cup, UCL title, BPL title x 2
Liverpool - Trophies - FA Cup, League Cup, Community Shield
Villa - nah
United - Trophies - a whole fuckin slew of em
- a whole bunch of teams that haven't won anything..
-Arsenal - a team that made a chunk of money by selling their best players and won absolutely nothing

3. Watched this the other night on Netflix: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2006869/ - Documentary about QPR

[Edited on May 1, 2013 at 9:07 PM. Reason : .]

5/1/2013 9:03:51 PM

^ Watching now. Pretty incredible stuff.

5/1/2013 9:56:50 PM

Yeah. Flavio was a terrible owner. Holy shit.

5/1/2013 10:03:46 PM

Briatore is a wanker! Briatore is a wanker!

5/1/2013 10:05:50 PM

kiljadn I don't say the Glazers have been great owners either but they are far from terrible for us. The QPR documentary is a great example of how bad owners can be. As I said its not that black and white. Yes they have loaded the club with debt, but they have also increased our profitability massively. Not one person would have a complaint against them if it wasn't for the debt, which they are working on reducing. What was holding us back was the interest payments on the debt, which has declined because of the IPO earlier.

Lets see what has happened since the Glazers took over
- Sir Alex has a free reign and has maintained our success, which has in turn helped the Glazer to:
- Make United more marketable
- They have overseen a huge commercial success and have signed record sponsorship deals

I am not sure we would be the commercial force we are without them.

Also in regards to Barcelona and Madrid
These two teams are loaded with debt, if I am not mistaken more than ours currently or comparable at least.
These two teams have enjoyed so many unfair advantages in the La Liga that I like to call it football hegemony. I certainly wouldn't want United to follow their standard.

But yes public ownership has worked in the past but it creates its new set of challenges as well. For now I am happy with where we are headed. That GM sponsorship should virtually wipe out the debt. If the Glazers don't use the opportunity to significantly wipe out the debt in the next 4 years I will have a problem.

5/2/2013 12:56:27 AM

That chart shows just how bad ass Moyes is. He should be knighted already for not having us as the laughing stock of the league.

If he's not LMA Manager of the Year again, I'm calling fucking shenanigans.

5/2/2013 1:05:21 AM

^ I believe it also shows how much more effective Wenger is. Getting into the top 4 with a consistently under replenished squad. He really should have been able to challenge for the title a lot more than he has.

5/2/2013 1:13:41 AM

^Also.

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2012/04/truth-about-debt-at-barcelona-and-real.html

Educate yourself. Posting long-winded, unfounded responses, consisting of the same repetitive bullshit is not impressing anybody.

Double-also:

That number is mostly insanely low on account of Arsenal's exports. Fabregas, RVP, Alex Song.

Aresnal's wage bill still trumps Evertons by four places in the league. That's, arbitrarily speaking, half the value based on the current standings.

[Edited on May 2, 2013 at 1:29 AM. Reason : double-also]

5/2/2013 1:22:40 AM

^ I have seen that article. It brings into it the potential value of players on the field. Fact is those two Spanish clubs are also loaded with debt, no matter how you put it. United's debt is a lot more serious only because of the bonds, which the Glazers have worked down. In fact that article points to how healthy Man United's balances are, maybe you should read it more thoroughly as well.

So don't act like they are an ideal model to follow. Arsenal's wage bill is massive yes but that's exactly why they get to the top 4 and Everton don't. Its still very impressive considering the top 5-6 teams have massive wage bills and transfer spending.

I find the use of educate yourself hilarious. As a former season ticket holder I believe I have a lot more clout on matters close to United than you do, the fact is you see debt and you equate it to terrible. There are many other factors that are relevant in assessing the impact of the Glazers on Manchester United.

[Edited on May 2, 2013 at 4:47 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on May 2, 2013 at 4:51 AM. Reason : .]

5/2/2013 4:46:34 AM

And to further educate yourself eduderino you should look at more recent articles about United's debt. The IPO has allowed the Glazers to lower the interest payments. The recent deals have made Man United's operating profits soar. Quiet frankly city's operating losses for 2010 and 2011 were 194 million and 102 million. Yes, Mansour is such a great owner. Those disgustingly ridiculous numbers will be a non-issue because Mansour can just right it off of course. Oh and about a month ago United announced a training ground renaming deal worth 183 million with AON. This is for renaming a freaking training ground. Sponsors are lining up for United, and that is because of the Glazers leadership. GM, Nike, DHL have all given us a huge bonus, the numbers will add up over the next few years. I expect United to carry healthy profits over the next few years, especially now that the interest payments are reduced.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1494532-manchester-united-financial-fair-play-will-rightly-protect-man-utd

5/2/2013 5:06:46 AM

And finally

http://www.4-traders.com/MANCHESTER-UNITED-PLC-11217013/financials/

Debt repayment schedule

2012 366m

2013e 261m

2014e 139m

2015e 20.4m

Of course these are estimates. That in and of itself is great. I am sure that also includes provisions for transfers. So not one person can realistically argue that the Glazers have been terrible for us. No one can say they have been great either. The alternative would have been the PLC, what they might have done is something no one will ever know. Yes they would have taken less money out of the club but how much of a commercial success would the club be? Most likely not as big as it is right now.

5/2/2013 5:19:50 AM

Quote :

"As a former season ticket holder I believe I have a lot more clout on matters close to United than you do"

You are an unbearingly smug and arrogant bastard

"I have season tickets, so I know better than you do!"

5/2/2013 7:15:17 AM

Quote :

"Sponsors are lining up for United, and that is because of the Glazers leadership. "

Sponsors are lining up for every team in the Premier League. It just so happens that United has been by far the most successful team in Premier League era and good teams get the most money. Without Ferguson, the "Glazers leadership" means fuck all.

You're telling me that if Fenway Sports Group bought United instead of the Glazers, they wouldn't be racking up sponorships in the same manner? They are getting 25 million/year for a shitty team.

Quote :

"Not one person would have a complaint against them if it wasn't for the debt, which they are working on reducing."

Stop acting like "the debt" is nothing.

Quote :

"The Glazers, with no previous connection to United or English football, really were allowed, by United's availability on the London stock market and football's lack of regulation, to buy one of the world's greatest football clubs and load it with £525m of debt. This debt was not borrowed by the club to invest in an academy or expand Old Trafford – that was done with cash made in the previous 13 years of Premier League success. The £525m was the Glazers' own borrowing to buy United, then they loaded their debt mountain on to the club itself to repay the debt and interest. Perhaps the most staggering perspective on this is to understand that in interest, fees paid to bankers, lawyers and accountants, and other hits of finance charges, the Glazer takeover has cost United more than £550m. Yet even after paying all that, United still have £420m debt derived from the Glazers' takeover. In 2011-12, even with the crowd more resigned to it all, United paid £50m in interest on this debt. The Glazers paid themselves a £10m dividend, to pay off the £10m loan they borrowed from United in 2010, £1.6m by each of Malcolm Glazer's six children. The club paid a £3m management fee to the Glazers' company and Kevin Glazer, one of Malcolm's five sons, was owed £558,484 interest, having bought up some of United's debt for himself."

For all the clout you have on matters close to United, you sure are a stupid fuck for pretending like none of that stuff matters and it's pretty embarrassing you're defending it.

[Edited on May 2, 2013 at 8:23 AM. Reason : ..]

5/2/2013 8:22:21 AM

Hi wazza,

Were you a season ticket holder when the Love United Hate Glazer campaign was going on? You must have had many discussions with the anti- Glazer supporters. what was their take on it? The only advantage I see from the Glazer ownership is more autonomy for Fergie. Once Fergie goes, we're going to be on a sticky wicket...

5/2/2013 9:02:36 AM

I was a season ticket holder before the Glazer takeover. No protests then. The protests reached its ebb in 2009-2010 or maybe 2011, when we hadn't spent a lot on transfers and the debt figure was at its highest. The protestors were a lot less vocal this year. I have to admit I was on the anti Glazer bandwagon when it first started too but I have changed my views since then. What aimorris clearly fails to understand is that I am not defending them, I am just saying the Glazers haven't been bad for United. Every owner is in it to make money, the Glazers are no different. The only problem is they couldn't afford United outright and brought with them acquisition debt from a leveraged buyout, which is clearly being paid off. All I am saying is that the alternative may or may not have been better. From available proof the PLC was horrible commercially. In fact the PLC did worse for United commercially from 2000 to 2004. Sir Alex hasn't been hindered in the transfer market and the club hasn't taken a step back. The fact is the success has happened under the Glazers leadership, the commerical success has happened under the Glazers leadership. The alternative is pure conjecture.

The financial for the third quarter just came out. Looking as healthy as ever. United is being run like a corporation, as long as it allows us to be successful I am not complaining. United is far from financial trouble, and is actually very well managed and run. As I said the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Once Sir Alex goes the Glazers will truly be tested but I figure by then we will have no problems with debt if the forecasted payments are followed.

[Edited on May 3, 2013 at 1:41 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on May 3, 2013 at 1:42 AM. Reason : .]

5/3/2013 1:37:14 AM

for kiljadn and ginganinja

http://www.football365.com/news/21554/8685146/Record-United-Turnover

5/3/2013 1:54:54 AM

Damn. It took 267 posts, but I surrender to the fact that this is most definitely an alias. No fucking person lacks so much self-awareness and is downright self-nullifying.

[Edited on May 3, 2013 at 2:01 AM. Reason : fuck, i bet it's even . he got us, guys! he fucking got us.]

5/3/2013 1:59:02 AM

^ So since someone doesn't have the same opinion you have to say I am trolling. Hilarious.

5/3/2013 2:06:30 AM

LOOK OUT. IT'S ON REPEAT.

5/3/2013 12:02:38 PM

wazza31 is giving a very pragmatic opinion about owners in the PL and you call that trolling

5/3/2013 12:13:35 PM

Take a bow Luiz

5/3/2013 7:19:18 PM

he spits hot fire.

seconding kiljadn's recommendation on Four Year Plan. Really interesting.

Also, I watched One Night in Turin (also on Netflix) today - it's about the 90 England World Cup team. Very entertaining as well.

[Edited on May 3, 2013 at 8:20 PM. Reason : .]

5/3/2013 8:18:02 PM

The Damned United (I expect everyone in here to have seen it, if not you need to watch it)

About Brian Clough's time at Derby and Leeds United.

5/3/2013 8:36:25 PM

Yeah, I think it's been mentioned several times over the course of all the EPL threads. Good flick.

5/3/2013 8:37:48 PM

Wenger...welp.

Quote :

""I believe that during this season we had to rebuild the team. We lost some massive players and we have moved forward in the second half of the season considerably. Just to let you know, we went out to Bayern on away goals and they have just thrashed Barcelona 7-0, so I have to consider we have moved forward.""

5/3/2013 10:28:15 PM

Yeah, Arsenal got that 4th place CL trophy by transitive property.

5/3/2013 11:15:10 PM

Final day in the Championship has been absolutely wild. Promotion playoff spots changing around every few minutes. Leicester have just scored in stoppage time to book their spot.

5/4/2013 9:46:54 AM

Promoted:
Cardiff
Hull

Playoffs:
Watford v. Leicester
Brighton v. Crystal Palace - this one should be fun http://sabotagetimes.com/reportage/brighton-and-crystal-palace-the-unlikely-rivalry-that-sparked-a-war/

[Edited on May 4, 2013 at 10:04 AM. Reason : .]

5/4/2013 9:55:46 AM

Oh my fucking god.

[Edited on May 4, 2013 at 12:15 PM. Reason : bale]

5/4/2013 12:12:47 PM

I fully admit we got Baled out today.

5/4/2013 12:17:06 PM

And I had my Hazard/Goodnight Sweet Prince all queued up.

Pity.

5/4/2013 12:24:31 PM

HE SCORES WHEN HE WANTS! HE SCORES WHEN HE WAAAANNNTTTSSSS! BALE BALE BALE

SIMPLY UNBELIEVABLE

COYS

5/4/2013 12:25:13 PM

Quote :

"I fully admit we got Baled out today."

Hugo's worldy to tip the ball on the post in the first half was just as important

Holy fuck im buzzing right now

5/4/2013 12:35:14 PM

I realize your excitement, but did you not expect 3 points today? Nothing's really changed.

5/4/2013 12:50:30 PM

Damn! No Saturday United game yet again!

5/4/2013 12:53:11 PM

I don't think you understand the shear torture that match was to Spurs fans.

After Fulham and Wigan I don't go into any match assuming points.

5/4/2013 12:54:30 PM

Quote :

" SHEAR TORTURE "

5/4/2013 12:56:29 PM

Oh heavens, I misspelled a word. You really got me.

5/4/2013 1:04:36 PM

Would love to see some bullshit from QPR in the second half. Make things interesting.

5/4/2013 1:14:47 PM