and here good ole Pete just beat Wake Forest this past weekend. He's 1-0 against the ACC this year

9/2/2014 11:22:12 AM

Quote :

"Oh I remember Pete Thomas, however I still think with the schedule we had last year, not winning at least 6 was pathetic. I even said TOB wasn't a great coach, but I do think he was a good coach with poor recruitment skills. I'm just saying you can't blame the year on him. There were too many coaching/play calling errors last year to put sole blame on Pete Thomas, Brandon Mitchell, or any other sub par talent. Countless times on 3rd and long calling a run or throw behind the line of scrimmage play last year. Not to mention that fake punt, even if that had work it was stupid. You're also saying that good QB's made TOB look good. Obviously Doeren only looks good with a nfl quality QB as well, or we would have been better last year. In my opinion a great coach can work with mediocre talent and make it look good, and take good talent to great. As of now, I think DD can recruit talented players, however, I'm not sold that he can coach them to its greatest potential. That's what I want to see for credibility."

I agree with you that not winning more than 3 games with last year's schedule is embarrassing. But I don't think TOB would've fixed last year's team. Again...maybe we steal 1 or 2 wins that DD didn't. Even then we're a pathetic 4-8 or 5-7 team. And we'd still all be screaming for TOB to be fired.

If your argument is that DD isn't a good coach, I think that's a reasonable argument to make. I think it's too early in his tenure at State to pass judgement one way or the other. I do think DD made some questionable play calls last year. That's perfectly reasonable to question and call him out on. Again, I think after this season we'll have a better measure of how good DD is. Now that he's got "his guy" at QB and a full year under his belt, we can more fairly pass judgement after this year. But I think it's flat out wrong to say that TOB would've had us winning 6+ games last year and/or that he should still be our coach.

And I do think it's fair to blame a lot of last year on him. He knew the cupboard was bare. That's why he put all his eggs in one basket for Glennon's senior year. TOB is a shitty recruiter...we all agree on that. So it's absolutely his fault that this new coaching staff had a bunch of scrubs last year. Sure, you can question play calling and specific game management. But from a talent standpoint, we were one of the worst teams in the power conferences last year. That's not the way to build a sustainable program if your TOB. He recruited like shit but had good QB play that saved his ass. Without that QB play, he managed to put together one of the worst rosters in the BCS conferences...

[Edited on September 2, 2014 at 11:38 AM. Reason : d]

9/2/2014 11:34:52 AM

Fair argument. I'm not saying TOB should still be our coach. I do think firing a 7 win coach made us look bad and made it hard to hire a coach. We basically send a message to coaches, hey we want our program to be better than it ever has, and if you can't do that, you're going to get fired. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with being a consistently mediocre team, but I would have rather seen him let go after a more disappointing season.

As for DD, I'm ready to see what he can do in a few weeks against FSU and Clemson. I don't realistically expect a win in either of those games, but it should be a good chance to really see if his system is working and if we can hang with them at all. Until then I don't think it is really fair to say how much this years team has or hasn't improved. I feel like I saw a NC State team with more talent Saturday, but I felt like I still saw a lot of coaching errors. However when we don't really know a lot about GA Southern, it is hard to say if those were really errors or if we as fans are just underestimating our opponent, and they covered our plays in a way that made them look bad. That is one of the disadvantages of playing such an easy early schedule, you don't truly know your opponent because they are rarely tested against quality teams. The benefit is that it should help us to prepare with real game experience as compared to just practice, which we desperately need before the ACC schedule kicks off.

On another note, no one seems to mention how boring it is to listen to DD, is that just me?. I know and agree TOB was boring as hell too, but damn he about puts me to sleep every time I watch the coaches show. Every thing he says just seems so monotone and shows no excitement. Oh well, as long the recruits like him I guess he doesn't have to excite me off the field.

9/2/2014 12:27:08 PM

That you consider Ga Southern to be an easy or cupcake opponent makes me seriously question your football credibility.

9/2/2014 12:47:39 PM

^Georgia Southern is an easy/cupcake opponent?

9/2/2014 12:54:02 PM

^ reread the #statement again.

9/2/2014 12:55:43 PM

^^^^Nick Saban is boring as fuck...Les Miles is a riot. Each fan base loves both of them because they win.

Chuck Amato was hilarious and Herb Sendek could put Dennis Rodman to sleep. Nobody liked them towards the end because they lost.

9/2/2014 1:35:15 PM

Yeah, I hated missing the tournament every year with Herb.

9/2/2014 2:04:23 PM

oh brother

9/2/2014 2:10:19 PM

my primary reason for thinking doeren is going to be a great coach is because he was debbie's number one choice for the job (assuming she didn't offer it to james franklin without anyone knowing). she fired tob and went right after DD. in my opinion every move she's made as an AD in the last four years has been calculated. compare that to the basketball search where we didn't get our number one guy, but missed out on our first half dozen or so before hiring gott. not saying gott's not good, but he may not have been on the radar when the search started.

consider also that debbie probably knew two-three months before the end of the 2012 season that she was going to shitcan old man vanilla--perhaps as early as the fiasco that was the miami game that year. so she begins evaluating candidates, does her due diligence, and firmly at the top of the list is doeren.

sure last season was miserable, but i have yet to find myself questioning debbie's decision. i'm still confident in the end she'll be telling the haters to get fucked.

9/2/2014 2:10:51 PM

Quote :

"Chuck Amato was hilarious and Herb Sendek could put Dennis Rodman to sleep"

herb sendek was hilarious.

9/2/2014 2:50:27 PM

I still like Chuckles.

9/2/2014 3:18:56 PM

TOB made the best statements about UNC of any coach in recent memory of any sport

9/2/2014 3:20:35 PM

I also miss Chesty the Clown, but for different reasons.

9/2/2014 3:21:10 PM

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/don-t-expect-pack-to-learn-a-lot-in-opener/13929445/

Yea, a team with a new head coach in their first season as a FBS team in the sun belt conference is a real powerhouse.

9/2/2014 3:25:44 PM

did someone call them a powerhouse?

9/2/2014 3:27:58 PM

Yeah I don't remember anyone calling them a powerhouse. Who called them a powerhouse?

9/2/2014 3:33:17 PM

Excuse my sarcasm in using the word powerhouse. My point was yes, I consider a sun belt team an easy opponent. We are an ACC team, along with that comes the assumption that we should be able to easily handle a team from the sun belt. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.

9/2/2014 3:42:36 PM

Ga Southern isn't very good. Neither are we. They're probably better than any of the 3 teams we beat last year though

9/2/2014 4:14:37 PM

Making assumptions about a team's quality based solely on their conference is just willful ignorance. GSU is a school that has had only 3 losing seasons since 1982, and in the past 10 years have won their FCS conference as well as competed FCS Championship multiple times. They run the ball well, have an offensive scheme that's pretty much the antithesis to our current defensive scheme, and have a strong culture of winning and success.

Underestimating and dismissing a team like GSU because they're in the Sun Belt is what gets you a Loss.

I'll even go to crazytown and say that GSU is one of the more difficult matchups on our schedule this year IMO. That we clawed our way back and won the game is a huge positive sign for the current status of the program.

9/2/2014 4:18:02 PM

TOB was only boring to people who are too dumb to understand dry humor. Dude delivered snark with ease. And say what you will about his recruiting, but the man knew how to develop QBs. The fact that he put QBs in the NFL is a testament to his influence. Matty Ryan, Rusty Wilson, and Mikey Glennon didn't find their way to NFL rosters in spite of O'Brien. He even found ways to win ACC games with a walk-on at QB here. Give the guy some fuckin credit, already.


Doeren might turn it around, but that's entirely based on speculation at this point. Apparently he can recruit.......wow. Can he win with what he's got? That's what really matters, and I can't blame anyone who has taken his 13 game sample size and expressed concern. I hope he lasts here for a long time, but damn, can anyone honestly look at last year and last week and not understand the skepticism?

9/2/2014 4:19:26 PM

I see you are a GSU fan, and I have insulted you. Excuse me for not following the FCS.

Quote :

"The fact that he put QBs in the NFL is a testament to his influence. Matty Ryan, Rusty Wilson, and Mikey Glennon didn't find their way to NFL rosters in spite of O'Brien. He even found ways to win ACC games with a walk-on at QB here. Give the guy some fuckin credit, already."

Completely agree.

9/2/2014 4:35:04 PM

^^nobody's clamoring to erect statues of DD and proclaim him the savior. It's basically "DD sucks" vs "give him more time"

9/2/2014 4:52:03 PM

This Thread = Not Ballers

9/2/2014 4:59:44 PM

erect lol

9/2/2014 5:02:25 PM

Quote :

"Underestimating and dismissing a team like GSU because they're in the Sun Belt is what gets you a Loss. "

I feel like you have been a State fan for a long time.

9/2/2014 5:46:58 PM

Quote :

"Matty Ryan, Rusty Wilson, and Mikey Glennon didn't find their way to NFL rosters in spite of O'Brien."

they also won a combined zero conference titles because TOB couldn't get over the hump against inferior teams on the road in the division.

9/3/2014 8:22:57 AM

Quote :

"TOB was only boring to people who are too dumb to understand dry humor. Dude delivered snark with ease. And say what you will about his recruiting, but the man knew how to develop QBs. The fact that he put QBs in the NFL is a testament to his influence. Matty Ryan, Rusty Wilson, and Mikey Glennon didn't find their way to NFL rosters in spite of O'Brien. He even found ways to win ACC games with a walk-on at QB here. Give the guy some fuckin credit, already."

1 - Enjoying someone's press conferences doesn't mean I enjoy losing every game on the road.
2 - It's hard to give him credit for the QBs when his supposed speciality was building O-lines and he did no such thing here.

[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 9:19 AM. Reason : V In 6 seasons, TOB only had 1 season with a winning record in-conference, and barely at that.]

9/3/2014 9:15:05 AM

Back then, we almost won a conference championship. With DD we almost won a conference game.

9/3/2014 9:15:51 AM

Wait when did we almost win a conference championship?

9/3/2014 9:20:46 AM

The year we won more than one conference game.

9/3/2014 9:23:15 AM

Oh so your definition of "almost winning a conference championship" is winning more than one conference game.

Got it.

[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 9:31 AM. Reason : By that metric we almost with the NCAA championship nearly every year]

9/3/2014 9:30:39 AM

Wait, when did we almost win a conference game?

9/3/2014 9:41:55 AM

^ He's referring to last year.

[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 9:46 AM. Reason : But I'm sure you're just trying to be funny]

9/3/2014 9:45:55 AM

Not sure if everyone is just purposely being A-holes to each other, but the "almost won a conference championship" was Russell's last year with us, 2010. Going into the last game of the regular season, all we had to do was beat Maryland in order to represent the Atlantic Division in the ACC Championship game vs VT. We lost.

2010 season
W's: Western Carolina, @UCF, Cinci, @GT, BC, FSU, WF, @UNC, West Virginia (Bowl game)
L's: VT (after leading 17-0), @ECU (in OT), @Clemson (6 yard punt), @MD (Torrey Smith's 4TDs)
9-4 overall, 5-3 ACC

[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 10:35 AM. Reason : oops]

9/3/2014 10:14:12 AM

^Yep. One game to make it to the ACC Championship game and we come out and Torrey Smith embarrasses us at home. So yeah, TOB has a team that could have made it to the ACCCG and potentially a BCS bowl talent-wise, and we have 2 ice-cold starts against ECU and make a comeback just to fall short in both games. And we have a great shot to win against against VT and Clemson just to choke.

That was TOB's ceiling and he couldn't get it done.

9/3/2014 10:22:34 AM

TOB's floor is the penthouse suite to DD's ceiling.

9/3/2014 10:25:22 AM

We did beat FSU and UNC with late game heroics, which has to count for something. Anyways, this is not a TOB thread, this is a DD thread.

+1 credibility for a comeback W
-1 credibility for getting bailed out by the heat

9/3/2014 10:28:06 AM

oh brother

9/3/2014 10:28:21 AM

Quote :

"all we had to do was beat Maryland in order to represent the Coastal Division in the ACC Championship game vs VT"

Glad to know we got moved over to the Coastal maybe we have a chance of finishing higher than 4th in the division every year now!

9/3/2014 10:31:13 AM

Quote :

"TOB's floor is the penthouse suite to DD's ceiling."

DD took his last team to a BCS bowl, you fucking moron.

9/3/2014 10:49:37 AM

Quote :

"2010 season W's: Western Carolina, @UCF, Cinci, @GT, BC, FSU, WF, @UNC, West Virginia (Bowl game) L's: VT (after leading 17-0), @ECU (in OT), @Clemson (6 yard punt), @MD (Torrey Smith's 4TDs) 9-4 overall, 5-3 ACC"

This was a good season...but it's the best TOB could manage with a pretty talented roster. Russell Wilson, George Bryan, TJ Graham, Owen Spencer, Nate Irving, Audie Cole, Terrell Manning, Earl Wolf. That team underachieved.

9/3/2014 10:53:51 AM

TOB was never going to take us anywhere. Dude was completely out of touch with the younger generation and made questionable on the field calls all the time. Remember all of the penalties we constantly had? Also, let's not forget that he ran off Russell Wilson who could have conceivably taken us to the ACCCG in 2011.

Doeren inherited a dumpster fire of a team and I think last week's game wasn't that terrible. Our defense took a while to adjust to their scheme because we are running a new scheme and we didn't know what scheme they'd be running in the first place. Our offense showed some major improvement. Flame me all you want but GSU is a pretty good team and not the pushover that they're made out to be just because it's their first year in FBS. They also beat (a weak) Florida last year fwiw.

I'm not drinking the Doeren kool-aid just yet, but we have to give him some more time. The last thing we need is another embarrassing coaching search that turns up nothing. We had to take a chance on a mid-major coach with potential because proven coaches just weren't going to come here, plain and simple.

[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 10:56 AM. Reason : .]

9/3/2014 10:54:15 AM

Quote :

" but the "almost won a conference championship" was Russell's last year with us, 2010. Going into the last game of the regular season, all we had to do was beat Maryland in order to represent the Atlantic Division in the ACC Championship game vs VT. We lost. "

That's not "almost winning a conference championship" dude.

Quote :

" Flame me all you want but GSU is a pretty good team and not the pushover that they're made out to be just because it's their first year in FBS. They also beat (a weak) Florida last year fwiw"

I was going to make fun of you, but I was unaware they beat Florida last year.

9/3/2014 10:54:56 AM

^^^and we should've been out of the running for the championship game earlier than the maryland game. after beating florida state we lost to an inferior clemson team (division road loss number infinity), but unc did us a huge favor and beat florida state in chapel hill, leaving us in control of the division. TOB, taking advantage of his last opportunity to come up short, blows a 21 point lead on the road at maryland.

[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 10:58 AM. Reason : ]

9/3/2014 10:57:40 AM

Quote :

"That's not "almost winning a conference championship" dude."

He probably meant "we were one game away from winning an Atlantic division title" as opposed to "we were one game away from winning a conference game."

9/3/2014 11:06:44 AM

I love watching the DD apologists come out of the wood work. The dude is a bad coach. You can try to blame TOB for talent on the roster, scheduling, not having a practice field, color of our jerseys, blah blah blah. Any half way knowledgeable football fan will tell you that DD is a bad coach. We've had enough of a sample size to see what he can do.

9/3/2014 11:11:05 AM

sure guy. you know football your football coaches, man. Plenty of a sample size, dude. Oh brother.

9/3/2014 11:18:18 AM

^^Jesus, man. If by "DD apologists" you mean fans that are willing to give him more than 13 games before writing him off....then sure. I'm a DD apologist. Nobody has said he's a great coach. Just a bunch of people saying he fucking sucks and other people that are willing to give the guy a reasonable amount of time.

Also huge LOL at "you can try to blame TOB for talent on the roster"

Excuse me for blaming TOB for assembling a shitty team and then getting fired.

[Edited on September 3, 2014 at 11:24 AM. Reason : xx]

9/3/2014 11:22:47 AM

Assembling a shitty team, winning bowl games, getting fired.

9/3/2014 11:32:04 AM