the more we learn, the less there is TO learn

4/29/2009 10:14:49 PM

i think daniel is definitely wrong. if they do somehow succeed in changing the past, i'll be pretty upset--it's an enormous paradox.

4/29/2009 10:18:24 PM

Well I thought his "logic" (not that he actually provided any of it) was pretty stupid anyway.

"People are the varables, so while I thought that the past couldn't be changed, I never thought about the fact that PEOPLE could change the past."

That's just retarded.

4/29/2009 10:22:45 PM

Quote :

"You know, maybe this is what I get for building this show up in my head so much, but I was really disappointed with this episode. We really didn't learn much of anything, and nothing at all happened. "

yeah, this has been a trend this season.

of course, all the fans have been asking for seasons now to just get some answers. Well, now they are filling in everyone's backstory and slowly, but surely, answering all the major questions. But the problem is, the answers so far have been pretty hum-drum with nothing too crazy or exciting.

Daniel dead, though, is unexpected, so lets see what happens now.

4/29/2009 10:36:51 PM

He's not dead yet, right? They healed Ben.

But yeah, I think he's probably gonna die.

4/29/2009 10:38:28 PM

Atleast this episode they managed to include some action while not explaining much of anything...

4/29/2009 10:47:32 PM

they filled in a number of blanks.

4/29/2009 10:49:55 PM

Quote :

"Daniel dead, though, is unexpected, so lets see what happens now."

it wasn't unexpected to Eloise

don't talk to her about "sacrifice"

4/29/2009 10:50:41 PM

Daniel's death just seemed odd and totally avoidable. Why confront the hostiles in such a manner? How did they infiltrate the Hostile camp so easily? Why did Sawyer and Juliet just stand there while that guy went to the closet?

4/30/2009 6:25:35 AM

Because they had guns

Everyone has guns now!

4/30/2009 7:27:49 AM

But they weren't pointed at them. They weren't even suspect. They could have totally walked out at that point and no one would've really done anything.

4/30/2009 7:59:00 AM

Quote :

"BUT WAIT THE HYDROGEN BOMB IS UNDER THE SWAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

hahaha yeah i know, i know. I knew it was far fetched, but nothing is inexplicable on this show. oh well.

It was nice to hear about the origin of the need to push the button, and get confirmation that Widmore was Daniel's dad. I agree about the guns thing, I blame Kate for Daniel's death, she's all like, "they're not going to be happy to see us, we better bring guns," even though the last time she met with them she was unarmed, had no problems, and got what she wanted.

4/30/2009 8:20:12 AM

I too was confused about why they thought guns were a good idea. Hey! Let's bring weapons and look like a threat!

4/30/2009 8:53:27 AM

- Did I miss something or did it explain why Daniel was crying when he saw the fake plane wreckage on the news?

- If Daniel is successful in stopping them from drilling into the energy source under the Swan, that would ultimately result in the plane not crashing and Daniel not going to the island to begin with, therefore he wouldn't go back in time and wouldn't go back in time and fix things. Surely he would know this is a paradox, so I don't see where he was trying to go with this.

- So now we know for sure what happened every 108 mins when Desmond pushed the button, but we still don't know 1) Why they couldn't just have a computer program do it 2) Why they just didn't have a big red button and instead they had to enter the numbers 3) Why they hieroglyphics flashed when Desmond failed to push the button.

4/30/2009 9:10:55 AM

the hieroglyphs came from radzinsky writing a map on the wall, or something, if i recall correctly. that is why that map was there.

but right now its looking like a everything that happens always happens. eloise knew he was going to die just as he always has. Its a shame, really, a mom killing her only child. that would fuck with my head for a long time. but she knew what she had to do.

4/30/2009 10:05:26 AM

^^ I don't know about your second point... I think Daniel was trying to explain he doesn't think of time as like a linear time line, it's all relative... if that makes sense Like maybe he was saying you shouldn't think that if you go back in time it's going to effect all the events in the future to the point where it would effect him going back in time and never being there in the first place, you should think of it as how YOU experience time......... I don't know, he blew my mind last night. I'm just glad it was about Farraday bc I missed the last 2 episodes and I wasn't totally lost on what had happened

4/30/2009 10:09:29 AM

Quote :

"- Did I miss something or did it explain why Daniel was crying when he saw the fake plane wreckage on the news?"

this wasn't explained explicitly. i think it may have something to do with his time travel experiments--perhaps he saw something during his experiments that stuck with him subconsciously.

Quote :

"- If Daniel is successful in stopping them from drilling into the energy source under the Swan, that would ultimately result in the plane not crashing and Daniel not going to the island to begin with, therefore he wouldn't go back in time and wouldn't go back in time and fix things. Surely he would know this is a paradox, so I don't see where he was trying to go with this."

yeah, i think daniel was totally mistaken, and i think he realizes nothing can be changed after he gets shot. i really don't think the show is going to get into alternate timelines.

Quote :

"- So now we know for sure what happened every 108 mins when Desmond pushed the button, but we still don't know 1) Why they couldn't just have a computer program do it 2) Why they just didn't have a big red button and instead they had to enter the numbers 3) Why they hieroglyphics flashed when Desmond failed to push the button."

points 1 and 2 have yet to be explained. lindelof and cuse touch upon the hieroglyphics on the season 3 dvds:

Quote :

"Carlton Cuse: The countdown station in the hatch had hieroglyphic symbols. Damon Lindelof: Those characters spell out the the word "underworld" in sort of traditional Egyptian Hieroglyphics. Although there are many interpretations of hieroglyphics, that’s what we were going for. Carlton Cuse: Right, and I think obviously, the fact that they are hieroglyphics, and we found a four-toed statue, that’s also something from the past. I think you can sort of surmise that there is a history on the Island that predates the DHARMA Initiative and that were talking about an Island that has been visited. Obviously, the Black Rock was from the late 1700s, so it might be a proper conjecture to say that hey there were people on this Island a long, long, time ago from other places. Damon Lindelof: And that the DHARMA Initiative was giving them a shout-out when they built the countdown clock. "

the back-and-forth about the mechanics of time travel reminds me of the importance of entering the numbers in season 2. they tell it to us right the first time, then throw red herrings at us.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:26 AM. Reason : .]

4/30/2009 10:23:30 AM

i miss Woodfoot because even though he pussed out on the bet he made with me I could always look forward to consistent conversation on thursday's while at work.

where for art thou

4/30/2009 11:53:12 AM

I think Daniel is the student Richard thought Locke was (i.e. which of these objects ALREADY belong to you?).

He was subconsciouslly saddened by news he had yet to comprehend. He is the space time samurai. Well, him and Hiro.

4/30/2009 12:15:13 PM

Except whats his name - can't think right now - the pilot, he was the same way when he first saw the footage.

4/30/2009 12:16:18 PM

you're talking about lapidus. he wasn't the same way. he just knew that the pilot wasn't actually the pilot because they were friends and a wedding ring was missing.

4/30/2009 12:38:24 PM

christ, i spend more time thinking and theorizing and reading fan sites and forums than actually watching the show.

i really need to go study now.

4/30/2009 1:06:57 PM

there are only two more airings this season. next week i bet will be ~ but two weeks from now !!!

4/30/2009 3:30:13 PM

it looks like we get to see inside the temple, plus some more of the 2007 peeps, so i'm pretty excited.

4/30/2009 3:39:34 PM

So where did Faraday's last name come from? If Charles Widmore was his dad and Eloise Hawking his mum. I guess she could have lied to him about his dad's name.

4/30/2009 3:40:01 PM

I think Vincent's last name is Faraday

4/30/2009 3:41:12 PM

for the record, it was faraday that insisted they have guns

kate(or someone else): why do we need guns to talk to your mother
faraday: you don't know my mother

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 4:19 PM. Reason : also: if they undo everything, kate is in custody again]

4/30/2009 4:15:04 PM

I don't think Widmore is really Faraday's father. If that were the case, why would Eloise slap him when he said it?

Hmm, maybe Richard Alpert is Faraday's real father.

4/30/2009 6:17:18 PM

b/c widmore abandoned eloise and didn't help raise daniel...

remember, widmore got banished off the island for having relations with an "outsider"...probably when he conceived penny

4/30/2009 7:12:50 PM

Quote :

"I don't think Widmore is really Faraday's father. If that were the case, why would Eloise slap him when he said it? Hmm, maybe Richard Alpert is Faraday's real father."

Are you serious?

She slapped him because he was bellyaching over sacrificing his relationship with Penny for the sake of the island.

To Ellie, who knowingly killed her own son by sending him back to the island, Widmore talking about about "sacrifice" was insulting.

Quote :

"b/c widmore abandoned eloise and didn't help raise daniel..."

Fucking a

Why would she slap him for that just out of the blue, 20+ years after the fact?

Are you guys familiar with context clues?

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 7:22 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2009 7:21:47 PM

she would slap him out of the blue for it because he said, "my son too"...and she took that as an insult because he had never treated him as a son before, so why call him that now....

the part that confuses me is how everyone says she knowingly killed her son... so, she has lived all this before and knew he was going to die?

4/30/2009 7:25:14 PM

As he was dying he said "I'm your son, you knew it would happen and you sent me anyway."

1977 Hawking was like DO WHAT

That's why 2005 Hawking "killed" her son. If Faraday was right and people can change the past, Hawking could have told him not to get on the freighter and thus not get shot by her in 1977.

Of course, maybe the universe would have course-corrected or something.

Fuck if I know

4/30/2009 7:29:49 PM

i still don't understand why more isn't talked about Miles seeing himself as a baby

sorta tears through that whole law of conservation of mass thing (which although we know its a show and why am i worried about this with time-traveling going on, it seems like something the plot would try to follow).......but i guess it keeps it even if the future loses the mass, the past gains it, so the whole universe is still even

im not complaining, but no one is talking about it

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 7:37 PM. Reason : whatever, im sure the flamefest is inevitable]

4/30/2009 7:36:05 PM

It's not just Miles, younger versions of all the survivors existed elsewhere in 1975.

4/30/2009 7:40:51 PM

yea i thought about that too

i guess i forget about their other-selves since they are off the island in the past (with their 1970s age)

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 7:42 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2009 7:42:25 PM

Quote :

"the part that confuses me is how everyone says she knowingly killed her son... so, she has lived all this before and knew he was going to die?"

uh, if it happened to her when she was young she would remember when she was old and told her son to go

whats confusing about that?

4/30/2009 10:06:05 PM

^ yeah, i thought we had settled all of this months ago.....
time moves in one direction. Whatever happened in 1977 always happened in 1977. The young Eloise always killed Daniel, and therefore the old Eloise will always know that

4/30/2009 10:11:50 PM

faraday gets shot

he should have a scar on his neck if it always happened that way

but he doesn't because he dies!

so it did happen that way

4/30/2009 10:23:09 PM

Quote :

"b/c widmore abandoned eloise and didn't help raise daniel... "

Quote :

"She slapped him because he was bellyaching over sacrificing his relationship with Penny for the sake of the island."

Quote :

"she would slap him out of the blue for it because he said, "my son too"...and she took that as an insult because he had never treated him as a son before, so why call him that now...."

The slap came immediately after the "he's my son too" comment. Not after him talking about Penny, and it wasn't simply about him not raising Daniel. But what he suggested considering he didn't raise Daniel.

He talks about giving up his relationship with Penny. She says it's not the same as what she's doing with Daniel. "He's my son too"... SLAP. Talking about his sacrifice with penny is insulting b/c she's not going to die, he's just not that close to her. The "He's my son too" comment is insulting b/c he's suggesting it's just as difficult for/will impact him just as much as Eloise. But he wasn't invovled in Daniel's life like she was.

The entire exchange was a little insulting, but I thought the slap was specifically b/c he suggested that sending Daniel to his death was the same for him as it was for Eloise.

Quote :

"the part that confuses me is how everyone says she knowingly killed her son... so, she has lived all this before and knew he was going to die?"

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. But just in case you are: Yes, sort of. She hasn't lived it before in the sense that she is reliving it. But she has lived the immediate future of those who are on the island and traveled to the past b/c they end up interacting with her in the 70's. She and Whidmore sent Daniel to the island knowing he would somehow travel in time and walk into the hostile's camp in 197? (whatever it is). At which point, she (at a much younger age) would shoot him in the back before learning that he's her son. Daniel was living events that she had already lived.

Eloise, Whidmore, Richard and ??? have all lived some of the future events of some of the survirvors + the people from the freighter before. They may not know every detail of what happens but they'll know about anybody/anything they interact with or experience directly or have hearsay of.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:40 PM. Reason : had that open longer than i though, but oh well.]

4/30/2009 10:35:35 PM

nm. man i hate they killed Faraday, other than Desmond he was my favorite/most interesting character

[Edited on May 1, 2009 at 8:15 AM. Reason : .]

5/1/2009 8:14:55 AM

Quote :

"I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. But just in case you are: Yes, sort of. She hasn't lived it before in the sense that she is reliving it. But she has lived the immediate future of those who are on the island and traveled to the past b/c they end up interacting with her in the 70's. She and Whidmore sent Daniel to the island knowing he would somehow travel in time and walk into the hostile's camp in 197? (whatever it is). At which point, she (at a much younger age) would shoot him in the back before learning that he's her son. Daniel was living events that she had already lived. Eloise, Whidmore, Richard and ??? have all lived some of the future events of some of the survirvors + the people from the freighter before. They may not know every detail of what happens but they'll know about anybody/anything they interact with or experience directly or have hearsay of."

I agree with all of that, I think that Eloise's memories have finally caught up with what is actually happening, hence why she said "for the first time in my life I dont know whats going to happen next"
r

5/1/2009 8:46:34 AM

How many more episodes until this show is completely over? It seems like they are running out of time to explain everything.

5/1/2009 9:25:56 AM

2 episodes this season, then all of next season. and what was this season..18 episodes or so?

5/1/2009 9:30:56 AM

wt

[Edited on May 1, 2009 at 11:50 PM. Reason : wt]

5/1/2009 11:49:28 PM

bump


tonight

5/6/2009 2:00:32 PM

Quote :

"ALPERT CENTRIC EPISODE"

Quote :

"WILL BE DISAPPOINTING"

5/6/2009 2:01:32 PM

what makes you say that?

5/6/2009 2:11:21 PM

Maybe I've just been expecting too much out of the last few episodes, but they were all kind of a let down. For the past month or so, every week has had the potential to be epic, but none really delivered.

This is the last episode before the finale, so maybe we'll get something awesome tonight. Plus it's Alpert-centric, I don't know how there couldn't be some huge reveals.

5/6/2009 2:14:57 PM

well i will miss it tonight, but do you consider those revelations as disappointing?

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 2:17 PM. Reason : ]

5/6/2009 2:17:08 PM

What?

5/6/2009 2:19:19 PM