Quote :

"I don't know how there couldn't be some huge reveals"

Quote :

" WILL BE DISAPPOINTING""

5/6/2009 2:21:54 PM

Quote :

"WAS BEING FACETIOUS"

5/6/2009 2:26:16 PM

5/6/2009 2:30:17 PM

Quote :

"Maybe I've just been expecting too much out of the last few episodes, but they were all kind of a let down. For the past month or so, every week has had the potential to be epic, but none really delivered."

i'll assume for the sake of argument that you're kidding.

5/6/2009 3:39:36 PM

Nope

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 3:44 PM. Reason : What epic reveals did I miss?]

5/6/2009 3:44:17 PM

^^ fo realz, we've learned more in the last month than we did in all of Season 4.

5/6/2009 3:56:08 PM

^^we've not only learned a few new things we've gotten confirmation on a few suspected thoughts.

for example we know now for sure that farrady is also widmore's son. we learn that ben got beat the fuck up by desmond but penny did not get killed. we learned that whatever did happened has happened. we learned what the incident was and why there was so much concrete there. we've learned what dharma actually knows about the island. we've learned what the black smoke monster is. we've learned how the temple operates. we have learned that the new group of people are what they seem and that they work for neither widmore nor ben.

that is off the top of my head from things only in the last two episodes. are you even watching the show?

5/6/2009 4:04:11 PM

I wouldn't say that we have learned what the black smoke monster is...

we learned what it does, but not what it actually "is"

5/6/2009 4:10:18 PM

I think I know where Ernie is coming from -
we have learned a lot in the past few episodes, however, a lot of that information was just confirming things that we already thought, but didn't know for sure (Farraday's dad, what happened to Aaron, Desmond beat up Ben). Or filling in some back-stories that were necessary to fill in all the blank spaces, but were not particularly revealing or did not introduce huge twists in how we saw the stories.

For the most part, all the revelations that have been revealed have been "hmm, yeah - ok, that I makes sense I guess" and not so much "HOLY SHIT I DID NOT SEE THAT COMING", with a few exceptions like Eloise killing Daniel.

I also contend we really still don't know that much about Smokey. So.... he lives under the temple and judges people.... so what? what the hell is it?

5/6/2009 4:10:35 PM

^^^Half the stuff on that list falls under the category of "trivial stuff that doesn't really matter" and the other half isn't true. Ernie's right, the last couple of episodes have been hugely disappointing in the grand scheme of things.

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 4:13 PM. Reason : damn you people are quick.]

5/6/2009 4:13:08 PM

^Yeah, I'm with you on most all of that stuff. One more revelation I thought was good was based on Ben's conversation with Sun. That "confirmed" that Ben did NOT expect Locke to come back to life, which means when he killed him, he meant to kill him and it wasn't a just mechanism to guide Locke along the path he needed to be on or something like that. I remember reading a lot of conflicting opinions as to why Ben killed Locke or whether or not he knew what would happen upon returning to the island.

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 4:19 PM. Reason : type-oh]

5/6/2009 4:17:28 PM

^^what part isn't true.

5/6/2009 4:20:22 PM

Pretty much so the entire second half of your list is factually incorrect.

Quote :

"we've learned what dharma actually knows about the island. we've learned what the black smoke monster is. we've learned how the temple operates. we have learned that the new group of people are what they seem and that they work for neither widmore nor ben."

5/6/2009 4:22:59 PM

I didn't read most of the posts above me, but what I'm getting at is this:

We learned some smaller details: freighter folks were on the island before, that old lady from the ring store is kinda important, the smoke monster lives in the temple.

But who really gives a fuck about that?

I'm not one to complain about the writers stringing us a long -- I never have. But the build-up and previews for most of the episodes in the second half of this season have been huge fucking teases. The description for last week read something about Faraday returning to the island and revealing all he knows. What actually happened? He came back, introduced a concept that is contrary to everything we've been told, tried to act as a deus ex machina, and got shot for no good reason.

Weak sauce

Tonight is Alpert-centric. I don't know that I could anticipate anything more. This is a huge chance for something big to happen. If we don't get some solid info on his past (or future or whatever), then I'll be sorely disappointed.

All I'm saying is we're running kind of short on time and it seems like the writers are wasting a lot of it. We've spent almost an entire season with the Dharma folks in their own time and still don't know shit about them. What the fuck is that?

I'm not saying that the major plot issues won't be resolved eventually -- and I don't mind waiting if it pays off, it's just disappointing that we've been in a holding pattern for most of this season.

5/6/2009 4:40:41 PM

Quote :

"for example we know now for sure that farrady is also widmore's son."

Trivial

Quote :

"we learn that ben got beat the fuck up by desmond but penny did not get killed."

Almost a pointless minor arc

Quote :

"we learned that whatever did happened has happened. "

Except that Faraday said that's completely wrong

Quote :

"we learned what the incident was and why there was so much concrete there."

No, we haven't learned at all what the incident is. The finale is tilted "The Incident." I'm guessing we'll learn then.

Quote :

"we've learned what dharma actually knows about the island."

We have learned almost nothing about the DI, why they're there, or what the do or do not know

Quote :

"we've learned what the black smoke monster is."

Not at all

Quote :

"we've learned how the temple operates. "

No, we learned that the monster lives there. Cool, I guess.

Quote :

"we have learned that the new group of people are what they seem and that they work for neither widmore nor ben."

That's not a reveal. That's an introduction of an element that didn't exist in previous seasons. We still know nothing about them.

So, in conclusion. Do you watch the show? Because everything you said is incorrect or entirely misunderstood.

I'm not trying to get into a Lost pissing contest, but your post makes very little sense. Especially considering it was in response to the question "What epic reveals did I miss?". How exactly is anything you posted epic? Most of them (the correct ones, at least) were just confirmations of ideas that had been strongly implied.

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 4:53 PM. Reason : ]

5/6/2009 4:47:31 PM

^3

Quote :

""we've learned what dharma actually knows about the island. we've learned what the black smoke monster is. we've learned how the temple operates. we have learned that the new group of people are what they seem and that they work for neither widmore nor ben.""

that is all pretty much correct, IMO. regarding dharma...we know that horace had the house that controlled the smoke monster, we know they built the orchid for the sole purpose of time travel. we learned why they had the numbers placed into the computer.

i don't know how you can refute what was said about the new group of people seeing as how ben was shocked sayid was on the plane, the bounty hunter said she didn't work for ben or know who he was and that group of people tried to get miles to stop working with widmore.

we've also learned that the black smoke monster is an independent entity and is not entirely controlled by the secret room in new otherton nor is it a mindless destructive creature. it is a sentient being. this is all new information.


but please focus on semantics and use that to discredit the premise of the point in its entirety.

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 4:52 PM. Reason : ^3]

5/6/2009 4:52:23 PM

Quote :

"Except that Faraday said that's completely wrong "

yet he died before he could change things suggesting that it is in fact not wrong.

Quote :

"No, we haven't learned at all what the incident is. The finale is tilted "The Incident." I'm guessing we'll learn then."

we learned that they drill a hole a little too far and this is what causes the build up in electromagnetism that has to be released every 108 minutes, which is why they have to push the button. this is why it is concreted up like Chernobyl

Quote :

"We have learned almost nothing about the DI, why they're there, or what the do or do not know"

Quote :

"Not at all "

see above post.

its becoming more evident that you require things spelled out for you and are one of the chief inhabitants of the land under the cloud

Quote :

"Because everything you said is incorrect or entirely misunderstood."

nothing said has been incorrect. you merely disagree on the degree of importance of the issues discussed. nothing i have said is factually incorrect.

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 4:57 PM. Reason : uo ou]

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 4:59 PM. Reason : .]

5/6/2009 4:56:48 PM

Quote :

"we know that horace had the house that controlled the smoke monster"

Why does this matter?

Quote :

"we know they built the orchid for the sole purpose of time travel"

We learned that in the very first scene of the season. Hell, you could say we learned it last season actually. There was never really much mystery about the Orchid once it was introduced.

Quote :

"we learned why they had the numbers placed into the computer. "

What?

Quote :

"we've also learned that the black smoke monster is an independent entity and is not entirely controlled by the secret room in new otherton nor is it a mindless destructive creature. it is a sentient being. this is all new information."

No one ever said that we haven't learned anything this season (please focus on semantics) -- I'm arguing that we've been teased that there would be huge reveals but ultimately let down. Like the episode with Ben in the Temple. That looked like it was going to FUCKING INCREDIBLE on the preview. In the end, Ben just met the monster, had some lame CG flashbacks, saw Jacob/Smoke Monster/Alex and walked away. What did we really learn about that encounter? Ben is evil and still wants to kill Locke? Wow, how surprising.

5/6/2009 4:59:28 PM

Quote :

"you merely disagree on the degree of importance of the issues discussed. nothing i have said is factually incorrect. "

So, then, what is the Smoke Monster exactly? How exactly does the Temple operate?

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 5:02 PM. Reason : ]

5/6/2009 5:00:14 PM

both of you have some valid points, and some incorrect ones. i agree that there haven't been any epic reveals, but i feel they have been doing a very good job of filling in tons of little holes, giving a better picture of what has happened.

to get away from your little spat...does anyone know how long it takes them to put the episodes on abc.com? i have to work tonight and don't have dvr

5/6/2009 5:01:55 PM

Quote :

"does anyone know how long it takes them to put the episodes on abc.com? i have to work tonight and don't have dvr "

Check surfthechannel.com late tonight or early tomorrow. ABC.com is pretty slack about getting episodes up.

5/6/2009 5:03:16 PM

Quote :

"nothing said has been incorrect. you merely disagree on the degree of importance of the issues discussed."

I agree with this statement, but if you really believe that then why are you trying to insult people's intelligence and talking about the cloud? I don't think anyone's tried to make this personal by saying you're stupid, just that you're placing a lot of importance on things that...well...aren't.

Let's try and keep it civil.

5/6/2009 5:03:31 PM

Yeah, exactly. He listed all those events in response to my asking about epic reveals. They aren't epic.

And, again, no reason to make it personal, tuff guy.

5/6/2009 5:04:36 PM

hey announced last week that ABC has signed up with Hulu to put shows on Hulu along with the Fox and NBC shows. Don't know when that will go into effect, though

5/6/2009 5:05:13 PM

To anyone just coming here, page 36 has been a worthless internet argument. Don't waste your time reading it.

5/6/2009 5:13:39 PM

Quote :

"WAS VERY DISAPPOINTING"

5/6/2009 10:01:37 PM

holy shit! locke gon' crazy.

5/6/2009 10:02:49 PM

Season Finale preview

Jack's decision to put a plan in action in order to set things right on the island is met with some strong resistance by those close to him, and Locke assigns Ben a difficult task. Guest starring are L. Scott Caldwell as Rose, Sam Anderson as Bernard, John Terry as Christian Shephard, Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert, Jeff Fahey as Frank Lapidus, Francois Chau as Dr. Pierre Chang, Patrick Fischler as Phil, Eric Lange as Radzinsky, Zuleikha Robinson as Ilana, Brad William Henke as Bram, Jon Gries as Roger Linus, Alice Evans as younger Eloise Hawking, Andrea Gabriel as Noor "Nadia" Abed Jaseem, Kevin Chapman as Mitch, Mark Pellegrino as man #1, Titus Welliver as man #2, Emily Rae Argenti as young Kate, Tanner Maguire as young Tom, George Gerdes as Mr. Springer, Agnes Kwak as Aunt Soo, Amy Stewart as mother, Rylee Fansler as young Juliet, Savannah Lathem as young Rachel, William Makozak as Captain Bird, Daniel James Kunkel as anesthesiologist, Sonya Masinovsky as Russian nurse, Keegan Boos as young Sawyer, Colby French as Uncle Doug, John Pete as prison clerk, Michael Trisler as father, Sally Davis as woman and Adam Bazzi as cab driver.

5/6/2009 10:09:56 PM

so....does Richard Alpert in 2007 remember helping them with the bomb in 1977?

5/6/2009 10:15:55 PM

What happened, happened, so yes.

Unless it didn't happen. Then...no.

5/6/2009 10:18:34 PM

oops

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 10:20 PM. Reason : ]

5/6/2009 10:20:04 PM

but it did happen...so then he remembers it

5/6/2009 10:20:17 PM

you know, for an Alpert-centric episode, we really didn't learn shit about Alpert....

I was disappointed in how clueless Alpert was, both in 1977 and 2008. He doesn't seem to know WTF is going on, no matter what year he's in. And we've been thinking he was some kind of all-knowing messenger this whole time.

5/6/2009 10:20:18 PM

Quote :

"but it did happen...so then he remembers it"

Well personally, I do think that what happened, happened and yeah, he remembers it. But if all that wacky mumbo-jumbo that Faraday was spouting off last week about people being the variables is true, then it's possible that Jack sets off the bomb and really does change the future, which would mean that Richard doesn't remember. But then the events that we are seeing in 2007 wouldn't be happening either, so it's really just a mindfuck all around if Jack is allowed to change shit in the past.

I'll be beyond pissed off if that's what happens. Especially if the only explanation we get for it is, "People are the variables"

5/6/2009 10:41:18 PM

"people are the variables" is bullshit, and it was bullshit when Daniel brought it up.

he had been studying time travel for 15 years and its effects on history and on people, and all of a sudden in an epiphany is just blurts out "PEOPLE!! VARIABLES IS PEOPLE!!!!"
give me a break. What, so all of his studying of how people shape history, and it never occurred to him that, oh, people shape history?

5/6/2009 10:44:57 PM

Well that was my exact gripe about last week's episode. It's just such a bullshit "theory".

5/6/2009 10:46:26 PM

I'm dissatisfied with this clear-as-day time travel paradox. I can live with the other time-travel ambiguities in the plot, but this just does not work.

Your future self cannot travel back in time to save you if the normal events of time dictate that you are dying. It's as if Marty McFly's parents never even met, and only thing that causes Marty McFly to be born is Marty McFly coming back in time to get them together.

5/6/2009 11:02:28 PM

I assume you're talking about Miles telling his dad to send him and his mom off the island? Judging from the previews from next week it doesn't look like the sub gets too far, and we still don't know if Jack ends up doing anything that would require people to leave the island in order to survive, so in reality no one's saved their own life yet that we know of. Lets wait until next week before we start getting mad about time paradoxes and whatnot.

Now I've always wondered how John Connor ended up sending his own dad back in time so that he could impregnate his mom, but I suppose that's for a different thread altogether.

5/6/2009 11:08:16 PM

No, I mean future John saving past John from bleeding out.

^Terminator is almost the same, but its slightly ambiguous because John Conner didn't go back himself to save his mom. Also, its Terminator; I don't take it nearly as seriously.

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 11:17 PM. Reason : .]

5/6/2009 11:11:10 PM

Hopefully i can watch it online this week. normally the player freezes up.

5/6/2009 11:12:15 PM

What's really disappointing is that they keep introducing all these new elements to drive the plot: Faraday's variable idea, Locke wanting to kill Jacob. I really don't see where they're going with this and it's going to suck when it leads nowhere.

5/6/2009 11:15:52 PM

At least John Locke the character finally acted like John Locke the philosopher.

5/6/2009 11:18:01 PM

Do what?

5/6/2009 11:21:04 PM

Quote :

" Locke wants each of us to use our understanding to search after truth. Of enthusiasts, those who would abandon reason and claim to know on the basis of faith alone, Locke writes: ”…he that takes away Reason to make way for Revelation, puts out the Light of both, and does much what the same, as if he would perswade a Man to put out his eyes, the better to receive the remote Light of an invisible Star by a Telescope.“ (IV. xix. 4. p. 698) Rather than engage in the tedious labor required to reason correctly, enthusiasts persuade themselves that they are possessed of immediate revelation, without having to use reason to judge of the genuineness of their revelation. This leads to ”odd Opinions and extravagant actions“ that are characteristic of enthusiasm and which should warn that this is a wrong principle. Thus, Locke strongly rejects any attempt to make inward persuasion not judged by reason a legitimate principle. "

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/locke/#ReaFaiEnt

5/6/2009 11:29:38 PM

Also, since Jacob obviously is some sort of Authoritarian:

Quote :

"Much of Locke's work is characterized by opposition to authoritarianism. This opposition is both on the level of the individual person and on the level of institutions such as government and church. For the individual, Locke wants each of us to use reason to search after truth rather than simply accept the opinion of authorities or be subject to superstition."

And he has obviously been following this part the whole time:

Quote :

"The positive side of Locke's anti-authoritarianism is that he believes that using reason to try to grasp the truth, and determining the legitimate functions of institutions will optimize human flourishing for the individual and society both in respect to its material and spiritual welfare. This in turn, amounts to following natural law and the fulfillment of the divine purpose for humanity. Locke's monumental An Essay Concerning Human Understanding concerns itself with determining the limits of human understanding in respect to God, the self, natural kinds and artifacts, as well as a variety of different kinds of ideas. It thus tells us in some detail what one can legitimately claim to know and what one cannot"

[Edited on May 6, 2009 at 11:51 PM. Reason : tags]

5/6/2009 11:50:45 PM

Because I'm a simple minded person, I looked up John Locke on simple wiki. It helps slow kids like me.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke

Quote :

"His idea of the purpose of the ruler was to establish order in society, and believed that the ruler's power should be limited. Locke believed that there should be a "contract" or agreement between the ruler and the ruled. He believed that the ruler should be able to stay in power as long as they had the consent of the people that they governed. He also believed that the reason men entered into society was to claim their possessions. Locke also believed that people are basically reasonable, and would cooperate with each other. The government, in Locke's view, was responsible for protecting the rights of the people. John Locke did not like the idea of government, he thought that all men gave up their freedoms given to them by nature, but he saw it as a necessary institution. His biggest and most basic beliefs include that humans are granted every possible right to their life, liberty, and property."

5/6/2009 11:59:23 PM

Maybe I read too much into things, but I've always viewed John Locke (the philosopher) as teetering between reason and faith. When faith was correct, one should follow it, but when it lead to blind "enthusiasm", one should consider reason. Thus, he was always teetering between the two. To this point, John Locke (the character) has been too messianic and blindly faithful to me.

Then again, I see no connection between Desmond Hume and David Hume what so ever.

5/7/2009 12:07:53 AM

Ellie was pregnant with Daniel in 77? I didn't catch this the first time around.

5/7/2009 1:13:39 AM

yeah charles said "not in your condition"...and then richard said something to jack and kate about "complicated love stuff" or something....

my wife caught that "not in your condition" line... i didn't the first time around

5/7/2009 5:44:00 AM

I will be very surprised if this season ends in any way either then one of these two -

1. Ends with the bomb going off - potentially killing several of the losties on the island.

2. Ends with the bomb going off, then they wake up and they are still on the island, but everything is changed.

5/7/2009 7:07:23 AM