any rational person is agnostic

[Edited on January 12, 2010 at 12:26 PM. Reason : i]

1/12/2010 12:26:21 PM

Quote :

"About 25% of people the US identify themselves as nonreligious or Atheists"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Main_religious_preferences_of_Americans

Quote :

"Most highly educated individuals are Atheistic"

I guess a link would be too much to ask for huh

1/12/2010 12:26:30 PM

Quote :

"What's the chance that any high-level politician is actually Christian and isn't just pandering to the voting masses that care?"

disco_stu

So, you're saying Obama is not a Christian but he is a liar? Really?! BTW, which is worse to you?

1/12/2010 12:47:38 PM

Barak Obama is a liar. You can quote me on that.

Of course, he belongs to a subset of humanity known as politicians, who are all liars, so he's not special.

Being Christian is not innately a negative quality. Being a liar is. So to answer your pointless question, being a liar is worse than being a Christian.

1/12/2010 12:54:18 PM

^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

1/12/2010 12:58:16 PM

D_D_D_D_D__D_D_OUBLE POST

[Edited on January 12, 2010 at 12:58 PM. Reason : ]

1/12/2010 12:58:44 PM

Quote :

"^^ So, you're saying Obama is not a Christian but he is a liar? Really?! BTW, which is worse to you?"

1/12/2010 1:02:18 PM

wat? he answered you clearly

1/12/2010 1:18:37 PM

^ The question was to God--count the little arrows.

1/12/2010 1:19:53 PM

Quote :

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence"

was that meant for me?

1/12/2010 1:27:39 PM

Yes

1/12/2010 1:29:25 PM

Quote :

"In the US, according to raw data from the 2004 General Social Survey, those with graduate degrees were the least likely to believe in the afterlife or the Bible as the word of God, suggesting a link between religious belief and lower educational attainment. [11] A weak negative correlation between education and Christian fundamentalism was found by Burton et al. (1989), a small study comparing the religious beliefs and educational achievements of white, Protestant residents of Delaware County, Indiana. Contrary to the researchers' expectations, fundamentalist converts were not less educated people.[12]"

!=

Quote :

""Most highly educated individuals are Atheistic"

1/12/2010 2:24:01 PM

This also confuses education and intelligence.

1/12/2010 2:25:49 PM

^ yeah most of that article was about intelligence, which obviously has very little to do with education level

1/12/2010 2:30:03 PM

Just curious-- is there anyone out there who will still claim that Fox isn't biased?

1/12/2010 5:16:40 PM

is there any news source that isnt biased?

1/12/2010 5:24:50 PM

the problem with fox more than their bias is that they don't distinguish between news and commentary. watching something like BBCA and its pretty clear what is reporting and what is commentary.

1/12/2010 5:34:29 PM

There are degrees of bias.






...and Fox has their PhD. ZING.

1/12/2010 5:48:26 PM

^eheheh

1/12/2010 5:54:32 PM

So is being a fox news contributor more important than being governor of the great state of Alaska?

1/12/2010 9:36:22 PM

[Edited on January 12, 2010 at 10:12 PM. Reason : damnit, replying to way-old post....]

1/12/2010 10:08:22 PM

1/12/2010 11:32:38 PM

...yeah, can kill brain cells.

1/13/2010 12:36:15 AM

lol it's not derangement, it's amusement...entertainment even.

it's funny that you think she could have that effect though.

1/13/2010 1:14:42 AM

Quote :

"the problem with fox more than their bias is that they don't distinguish between news and commentary. watching something like BBCA and its pretty clear what is reporting and what is commentary."

I have to disagree. If you go watch O'Reilly, Beck, Hannity or Greta, of course you are going to get biased commentary. This much is obvious.

However, if you actually watch their business news or daytime anchors they seem pretty fair, as do most of the major networks. Accusations of bias either way for most of the anchors on the news channels is pretty far-fetched IMO.

The difference is in the before-mentioned shows. Fox has the most obvious conservative commentary whereas the other networks dont.

1/13/2010 10:02:47 AM

I'm sure this was mentioned somewhere in the thread, but I looked more into the "912 Project" from Glenn Beck. I figured it was a play on the day after 9-11 or something stupid like that. Of course, it was much, much worse than that.

The 12 "values":

•Honesty
•Reverence
•Hope
•Thrift
•Humility
•Charity
•Sincerity
•Moderation
•Hard Work
•Courage
•Personal Responsibility
•Gratitude

The nine "principles":

1. America is good.

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.

Of the values, those seem good I guess, though it just reminds me of the "character traits" or whatever they used to post on the walls in elementary school. Some of these principles seem really messed up, though. America is good? How can a country as a whole be good? There are plenty of bad people in the United States. Our military has done bad things. Our government has done bad things.

#2 doesn't surprise me, but it seems completely meaningless. Alright, so you've bought into the myth that there is a god and now he's the center of your life? What does that even mean? And the "family is sacred"? If the couple is the "ultimate authority" and not the government, why does that same group seem to support having government ban gay marriage, or why do they fall back on the semantics cop out?

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 9:31 AM. Reason : ]

1/14/2010 9:30:49 AM

Quote :

"Of the values, those seem good I guess, though it just reminds me of the "character traits" or whatever they used to post on the walls in elementary school. Some of these principles seem really messed up, though. America is good? How can a country as a whole be good? There are plenty of bad people in the United States. Our military has done bad things. Our government has done bad things. #2 doesn't surprise me, but it seems completely meaningless. Alright, so you've bought into the myth that there is a god and now he's the center of your life? What does that even mean? And the "family is sacred"? If the couple is the "ultimate authority" and not the government, why does that same group seem to support having government ban gay marriage, or why do they fall back on the semantics cop out? "

I am glad you posted that because I mostly agree with Beck on those principles. I would think most people would as well (part of what makes America "good")

just a couple of points from my perspective;

- America is good. As a whole. We routinely give more to charities, worldwide aid and disaster response than anyone. Of course, in a nation of millions, there are bad people. And, of course, our government is not perfect...but you can be imperfect and still be 'good.' I consider Obama to be extremely imperfect, but I think he is a good person.

- I am not an extremely religious person, but it doesnt prevent me from considering the core values of ALL the major religions as being good things. Whether 'God' means Allah, Jesus or Buddha, the fundamental teachings are basically the same...and followed as such make for 'good' people. I would like to point out that most Atheists are also good people as well and their core values probably do not differ much than those of a religious person...they just dont believe in the 'invisible man in the sky.'

- I think the family is sacred. I think Beck is saying that the family should have the right to make decisions for itself with as little government involvement as possible. Study after study shows that the happiest people come from the family...the most well adjusted kids (as a whole) from from a family situation. Families are good for society as a whole.

As far as gay marriage goes, if that family doesnt like gay marriage, so be it. I, for one, believe a family should be able to be a gay family and that he is a little contradictory in that regard.

1/14/2010 10:57:37 AM

Quote :

"It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion. "

sure, now its not.

1/14/2010 11:32:04 AM

#6, #7.....

Ah, the good ole White majority view of "bootstraps."

1/14/2010 11:43:07 AM

Quote :

"6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results. 7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable."

'bootstraps' is quite the cliche' but fundamentally, what is wrong with this?

1/14/2010 2:29:28 PM

As expected, lacking any mention of:

-Equality
-Respect for the Environment
-Diversity
-Education/Higher Reasoning/Free Thinking
-Brotherhood/Selflessness
-Peace/nonviolence/turn-the-other-cheek

Utter Hypocracy:
-Honesty
-Humility

1/14/2010 2:51:13 PM

^^ That's not reality.

White people forget about institutionalized racism and the benefits they already have built into the system, even if they are "poor" to begin with.

1/14/2010 3:12:23 PM

So what I work for is not mine? And I don't have the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness? all because I'm white?

there is nothing wrong with those statements. there is no guarantee of equal results. you can't have a fail-proof or equal-results anything; they don't exist and never will. equal opportunity is what's important, not equal results.

1/14/2010 3:16:01 PM

Quote :

"-Equality "

And you think Libs are for equality? Im not sure anyone is for across the board equality. Most only want it when it benefits them, and will oppose it when inequality benefits them.

1/14/2010 3:19:45 PM

^True, same for conservatives. Why is that relevent?

1/14/2010 3:25:13 PM

Quote :

"So what I work for is not mine? And I don't have the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness? all because I'm white? there is nothing wrong with those statements. there is no guarantee of equal results. you can't have a fail-proof or equal-results anything; they don't exist and never will. equal opportunity is what's important, not equal results"

That's what I'm saying. You not only started the race with a half-mile lead, but you also started it with top-of-the line Nike shoes and a personal trainer. There's no equality of opportunity there.

1/14/2010 3:26:44 PM

Quote :

"-Equality -Respect for the Environment -Diversity -Education/Higher Reasoning/Free Thinking -Brotherhood/Selflessness -Peace/nonviolence/turn-the-other-cheek"

Equality is implied. "I" does not mention a race, gender or creed.
Environment/Diversity - ok, but I am not sure those things are "values" or "principles" - they are issues with varying opinions and degrees. the others are what he believes to be absolute.
Education/Free Thinking - he talks about personal opinion - but education should be up there
Brotherhood - he says charity
Peace - come on. how can you make 'turn the other cheek' a maxim in life? that only works on the playground. you have to defend yourself.

1/14/2010 3:28:08 PM

Quote :

"That's what I'm saying. You not only started the race with a half-mile lead, but you also started it with top-of-the line Nike shoes and a personal trainer. There's no equality of opportunity there."

lets not exaggerate. I am white and I assure you I had no "personal trainer". plenty of minorities have made themselves great. there is no denying the past, but there is also no sense in wallowing in it.

I argue that your color doesnt matter half as much as your family and the immediate support in your life.

1/14/2010 3:31:03 PM

There's a difference between defending yourself and wanting to destroy all muslims.

1/14/2010 3:31:21 PM

Quote :

"I argue that your color doesnt matter half as much as your family and the immediate support in your life."

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 3:33 PM. Reason : ]

1/14/2010 3:32:44 PM

Quote :

"That's what I'm saying. You not only started the race with a half-mile lead, but you also started it with top-of-the line Nike shoes and a personal trainer. There's no equality of opportunity there."

So, I should be punished, my wages taken away, my rights stripped due to people's actions 50 to hundreds of years ago? This is the most backwards bullshit I've heard. There is no reason to set back an entire race or gender. What you want would destroy the world. And why punish just white Americans? You are telling me that the only people on this earth to have ever had slaves or oppress another group are white Americans? Black Americans didn't have slaves? Africans didn't sell/own their own people? Racist laws only existed in the U.S.? You're liberal stance and ideas won't generate equality of opportunity, it will crush it further, it will degrade the meaning of equality. Instead of trying to blame a group of people and bring them down, why not raise everyone up? Why not solve the real problem which stems from education. Why not fix the education system, so that any American, black, which, brown, or yellow, receives a great and useful education? You act like white people don't have their own poor, weak, sick, and oppressed. You assume the system has always been and will always promote whites and no one else. You are dead wrong.

It's the typical liberal attitude: You're not white so you can't succeed. There is just no way. You need the government to tell you what to do, to give you your bread, and to give you a monthly allowance to succeed.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 3:39 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2010 3:36:10 PM

I'm so tired of hearing about "institutionalized racism." There are people of all races living in poverty in this country. I understand that you're white and you think you're throwing minorities a bone by feeling guilty about it, but unless you've discriminated against someone yourself, there's no problem. The only right thing to do is to make the law apply to everyone equally. We're not going to be able to right the wrongs over the past few hundred years. It's not going to happen. You've railed on this before, but honestly, what's your solution? Borrow more money, create some more fake wealth, and give it to anyone that passes a racial purity test? Or are we going to use the one drop rule for this?

Also, going back to some stuff I read on the last page, I have no doubt that many (probably dozens) congressmen and presidents have been atheists. There's no way that these highly educated individuals uniformly believe in Christianity. If you want to be in politics, you have to play the game. That means lying when there is no other option.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 3:45 PM. Reason : ]

1/14/2010 3:38:30 PM

God, since you believe only whites can succeed, tell me how people other than whites are in positions of political power, running businesses, business executives, millionaires. Tell me how a good friend of mine, who's grandparents literally jumped the fence into our country, went to a small, redneck, poor high school, graduated in the top 25% of his class, went to NCSU, got a degree in 4 years, and now is earning almost 6 figures? That can't happen in your world.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 3:44 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2010 3:43:58 PM

Quote :

"There's a difference between defending yourself and wanting to destroy all muslims."

funny, I didnt see that in the list.

1/14/2010 3:53:51 PM

Quote :

"There's no equality of opportunity there."

Because it will never exist, it cant. Its like arguing over who has the biggest unicorn and trying to legislate that.

1/14/2010 3:57:16 PM

Found this on Fark:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/01/glenn-beck-defender-of-agnosticism.html

Quote :

"In attacking President Obama in defense of conservatism and the religious right, Glenn Beck quoted Thomas Jefferson: "question with boldness". The full Jefferson quote? "Question with boldness even the existence of a God." "

1/15/2010 5:00:46 PM

Beck also has a similarly ironic fascination with Thomas Paine.

1/15/2010 5:12:47 PM

Quote :

"MSNBC's top programs provide more than 18 times as much coverage of Haiti earthquake as Fox News' top shows The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity, and Glenn Beck, Fox News' three top-rated programs for 2009, combined to devote a total of 6 minutes, 41 seconds of coverage to the earthquake in Haiti. Among the things they chose to air instead were Beck's interview with Palin -- to which he devoted nearly his entire show -- Hannity's continued advocacy for Brown; and O'Reilly's discussion of Stewart. Countdown, The Rachel Maddow Show, and Hardball, MSNBC's three top-rated shows, devoted 2 hours, 2 minutes and 33 seconds to the earthquake -- more than 18 times the coverage devoted by Fox News' top three shows. Other Fox News shows -- such as Special Report with Bret Baier and The Fox Report with Shepard Smith -- did devote extensive coverage to the earthquake."

And until Beck can draw a line between ACORN and tectonic plates on his chalk board, this probably won't change.

1/16/2010 6:19:45 PM

Well, yeah, Haiti isn't full of White Christian Conservatives.

1/16/2010 10:12:02 PM

wait till spring, the white christian conservatives come in by the plane load. its always a blast in the airport, they are the ones with fanny packs and ugly skirts that go to their ankles.

1/16/2010 10:21:19 PM