^What kind of firm are you working for? Are they going to slide you small cases on your own and help you out? Are they allowing you to go out and do your own work on their or your time??

I just like feel like firms of all sizes are taking advantage of this economy by getting recent graduates to do work for them for free or at extremely discounted rates. I'm leaving my current job to do work on my own because of this. I was doing a ton of work for little compensation. I am, however, taking with me a ton of "go-bys" and information that my boss/former boss has accumulated over his 30+years of practice. When he started to put up a fight, I asked him if he would like it if I called up a few of his recent clients and told them that he was billing them out at the $275/hr rate...when the work was being done by an attorney that usually charges $150/175 hr.

I'm super pumped about working on my own schedule now. I was getting burnt out trying to prove myself to my last boss and getting very little in return.

9/14/2010 10:41:40 AM

i could understand working for a discount, not free.

9/14/2010 10:52:52 AM

Right when I got out I worked for a good friend for free. He was "hanging his own shingle" and was really scraping to get by, so I didn't feel bad about not getting paid (besides, I was bartending on the side and making twice what he was making).

I understand working for free to try and get the experience so maybe you can do it on you own. But lots of these firms are making $Texas, and make even more when they hire intelligent law school grads working for peanuts or less. And a lot of them don't have any plans for expansion, so it's not like you're working to move up in the firm. You can try and negotiate, but they'll just get rid of you and hire the next law school grad looking for experience.

It's a really shitty time to be a recent law school grad.

9/14/2010 10:58:12 AM

criminal firm. getting on the court appointed list to make money.

^^i've seen your posts in the law school thread. there's a lot you don't understand yet.

9/14/2010 11:21:02 AM

Quote :

"getting on the court appointed list to make money."

I've gone back and forth with this. I want to get a little more experience with criminal stuff before I decide to go this route, but I definitely think it's something I'll end up doing.

I'm also about to get off my former employer's malpractice insurance. It's risky, but I think I'm going to go uninsured for a while until I can save up enough to money to pay it in full for a year. I think as long as I'm careful and don't take a case where I'm in over my head or anything where if I get sued I can afford it, then it's not a huge risk.

The shitty thing about being an attorney in this economy is that it's soo expensive just to be able to practice law. ABA dues are $400 every year. Malpractice insurance is usually $2,000 to $3,000 a year. And unless you work for a firm that pays for the courses, Continuing Legal Education is around $50 a credit, and you have to have 14 credits a year (so that's around $700 a year...at least those are the CLE requirements in SC). And the costs to use legal research search engines like Lexis Nexis and West Law are RIDICULOUS.

Unless you're working for a firm that covers all those costs, it's almost too expensive to even stay afloat. What sucks is for the people who don't get jobs out of law school and have to pay most of the fees just so they are still able to practice...yet they don't have any money coming in because they don't have jobs!! Shit is crazy.

9/14/2010 11:32:56 AM

yeah, that's all stuff i've been ranting about to anyone who will listen. i'm fairly well connected through family and friends so i'm hoping those connections lead to something soon. otherwise as an attorney fresh out of law school there's little to set me apart from all the other out-of-work attorneys.

9/14/2010 11:47:58 AM

Well good luck to you.

9/14/2010 11:53:00 AM

Was out of work for a long time. In my new job 3 weeks now. forgot how good it feels to be productive and make more $$$. Nice!

[Edited on September 14, 2010 at 2:33 PM. Reason : sp]

9/14/2010 2:32:43 PM

Got an interview with a company next week. Frankly I feel amazed that it's progressed this far. I'm really hoping it goes somewhere. (no offense, raiden. I still want to keep tabs on your company for opportunities) It probably won't, though. I'm not lucky enough for this saga to have ended yet. But I'm going to put a hell of a lot more effort into preparing for this interview than I have during past attempts.

Two major mistakes that I've kept making over and over is that I don't read up on anything about the company, and I don't usually ask questions at the end. I figure that learning about the place will sort itself out once I'm hired. And I have a tendency to think of interviews as one way; it's me trying to impress them and convince them as to why they should hire me. And frankly, if I didn't think for a second that I couldn't do the job, I wouldn't have bothered applying for it, so my application is an implicit message that I'm interested in being a part of the company. But in addition to them assessing you, you're suppose to also assess them. If their company culture isn't going to mesh well with your needs, then it makes little difference how technically competent you are since you won't last all that long.

I'm sure this is all painfully obvious to everybody else and that this is basic interviewing knowledge, but I was never taught any of this. This is the kind of shit that I've had to slowly figure out on my own, and am only now really internalizing. Aside from some standards and expectations, it largely doesn't matter to me who I work for; I'll work very hard and be a good employee, just throw me a bone and let me prove it to you. And so that is pretty much how I've approached every interview. Unfortunately it has been the wrong approach, but now I'm trying to do something about it.

[Edited on September 14, 2010 at 8:19 PM. Reason : blah]

9/14/2010 8:18:24 PM

One suggestion I have to go hopefully help with your internalizing those good interview skills is this:

To a certain degree, treat the interview process as if it is you who are interviewing them. This is your opportunity to find out if this is a place you'd be exited to work. The more questions you ask and the more you get them answering and talking the less heat is on you and (in my experience) they better you look.

9/15/2010 11:48:47 AM

I realize it is going to be awhile before I find a job in my field (or a job that I want in my field)...I don't know how others stay sane job-searching for so long. I've done it hardcore for what, a month-ish? Ugh.

Anyway, my problem now though is I'm totally willing to work a crappy part-time job to get extra money while I keep looking for other things/study for the bar.

But I'm having trouble even finding part-time work. Well correction, I can FIND the jobs, but after applying I never hear back or I hear that they can't/won't hire me because I will just leave. The thing is it could be 6 months before I find legit employment. And for some of these restaurants and places claiming to want someone "long term" 6 months is pretty long. I've worked in food service AND retail, I know the turn over is pretty fast. Geez. Its just frustrating.

Anyone have the same problem/luck finding part-time employment? I'd ideally like to do an admin job where I could make $10-$12 an hour. But I also have retail and food experience. Right now my two fantastic choices are making $8 working at 1) an icecream shop or 2) a paint store. I kind of want to hold out for something "better" BUT after applying to probably 70 of these part-time admin and retail positions, these are the only ones I've actually heard back from.

SIGH.

9/16/2010 2:22:14 PM

I have a question about email cover letters, do people put in all the formal letter information at the top left of the letter (i.e. the senders address, the date, the recipients name and address) and then the salutation? I've never done this but someone just recently suggested I should, have I been doing it wrong this entire time?

9/16/2010 2:33:16 PM

^^Just lie. Tell them you failed the Bar exam and that you don't plan on taking it again and you're going a different route.

9/16/2010 2:46:48 PM

^ If you are going to lie make it count. Don't even mention law school. Tell them you have experience and bills to pay. You will have a job within 1 week.

9/16/2010 3:02:32 PM

^^^^I'm having the same problems as you are. I'm looking for part-time employment here in Wilmington while I take a year off before Grad school. I've applied to about 30 places and haven't really heard anything. I've been applying for about 3-4 weeks and have heard back from only 2 places. One teller job and Lowe's both said no. They all think I'm going to peace out at the first chance I get but they can't see from my application that I'm going to be around for 10-12 months.

It's starting to get really frustrating. I'm trying to stay away from food and retail and making $8 a hour but I think I'm going to have to go that route. I'm just going to keep applying and start calling places and asking what's up. I feel your pain and hopefully thing will start to look up.

[Edited on September 16, 2010 at 3:04 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2010 3:03:43 PM

Quote :

"If you are going to lie make it count. Don't even mention law school."

I was guessing that she would have listed law school on her application.

But now that you mention it, just leave law school off the application.

9/16/2010 3:08:38 PM

I took it off of the retarded position resumes already (i have 2 - one professional and one for dumb positions)

Perhaps I should also remove my college degree? haha.

But where it gets complicated is with positions that are in between retarded and "real" jobs. Then I don't know if I should leave it on or take it off. So far leaving it on has gotten me nowhere.

At least I'm doing work for free at a law firm so I have something to put on my resume in the meantime (for when applying for "real" jobs). But I would also like a paying job right now. Even if it is hostessing or whatever. I would prefer Admin, but you know...that isn't looking good at this point.

[Edited on September 16, 2010 at 4:36 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2010 4:33:58 PM

If you're a software engineer with experience, NYC is a fantastic place to be. I'm kind of in shock because I'm overwhelmed by the response thus far.

I started a new job search last tuesday, I've gotten literally over 100 phone calls since then. Already have had 5 phone interviews and going on my 2nd in-person tomorrow. Next week is shaping up to be just as busy....wow.

The best part is I'm pretty much guaranteed to get a minimum a 20% bump in comp.

9/16/2010 4:52:57 PM

I feel like I'm doing all the right things. I'm on an informational interview at least once a week, getting my name out there and making contacts. One of these leads to another as I call someone and name drop. Each of them promises to send my resume to their contacts. I email them my resume, tell them thanks and then never hear from them again.

Anyone know anybody in the PR or Gov't/Public Affairs business in Louisville, KY?

9/16/2010 4:53:27 PM

I've been unemployed since I graduated with my MA in May
I put out at least 5 job applications a week

haven't even gotten an interview

9/17/2010 2:54:12 AM

What did you expect with an MA in Media Studies?

9/17/2010 1:13:50 PM

Had what I thought was a good lead, and it was for the wrong type of position. Another lead has failed to get back to me when he said he would contact me a few weeks ago. Think I've run out of options at the moment and will be resorting to USAJobs again .

Have a great networking opportunity this upcoming week at a nanobiotech conference, so hopefully something comes out of that

9/17/2010 6:54:20 PM

Quote :

"If you're a software engineer with experience, NYC is a fantastic place to be. I'm kind of in shock because I'm overwhelmed by the response thus far. I started a new job search last tuesday, I've gotten literally over 100 phone calls since then. Already have had 5 phone interviews and going on my 2nd in-person tomorrow. Next week is shaping up to be just as busy....wow. The best part is I'm pretty much guaranteed to get a minimum a 20% bump in comp. "

Hating on non productive endeavors aside, what kind of compensation are these jobs fetching?

9/18/2010 11:24:13 AM

It really depends...if you're looking at something like 5 years of experience.
Lets say salary ranges of lets say 110-180k
For contract 600-800/day

If you're just starting out, getting into a bulge bracket bank could loop you something like 80k + 10~20% annual bonus. Hedge funds pay better but are much harder to get into w/out a prestigious degree.

9/20/2010 12:38:06 PM

What's the cost of living like / where and how well do most people with that kind of salary live in NYC?

9/21/2010 11:53:34 AM

you can get a decent place in Brooklyn for like $2000 a month

understand that "decent" is a relative term - there are nice places but they always cost more

you're probably going to have to get a roommate too

9/21/2010 1:19:38 PM

Quote :

"Two major mistakes that I've kept making over and over is that I don't read up on anything about the company, and I don't usually ask questions at the end. I figure that learning about the place will sort itself out once I'm hired. And I have a tendency to think of interviews as one way; it's me trying to impress them and convince them as to why they should hire me. And frankly, if I didn't think for a second that I couldn't do the job, I wouldn't have bothered applying for it, so my application is an implicit message that I'm interested in being a part of the company. But in addition to them assessing you, you're suppose to also assess them. If their company culture isn't going to mesh well with your needs, then it makes little difference how technically competent you are since you won't last all that long."

I'm in that boat as well. A good portion of it is because I'm lazy, but I also attribute some of it to inexperience. Most of the time I just don't know what questions I want to ask about a job.
How much do I value work-life balance? Don't know, never had a job before, never had to deal with it before.
How much interaction do I want with my boss? Don't know, never had a job before, never had to deal with it before.
How much team vs individual work do I want? Don't know, never had a job before, never had to deal with it before.
How does your company culture fit with my needs? Don't know, never had a job before, never had to deal with it before.
What does "company culture" even mean? Don't know, never had a job before, never had to deal with it before.

I'm a pretty flexible guy. Will you pay me to do work? Good. Will you physically abuse me when I'm at work? Glad you won't. Will you allow me some time to learn new programs/procedures/etc? Good. That's all I really want to know. I'm all set. Hire me please.

9/21/2010 1:47:10 PM

if you haven't had a job and get those kind of questions, think of your experiences with professors, project leaders, etc*.

* don't wait to the interview to think of this stuff. Just google "interview questions" and you'll get dozens, if not hundreds, of hits about the typical interview questions. Read through a bunch, think about them and what sort of experiences you can relate to the questions - don't think of specific answers to recite if it comes up (it will sound rehearsed).

9/21/2010 1:57:50 PM

Had my big interview yesterday. But unfortunately, I found out this morning that I didn't get the job.

When interviewers tell you that it will take a week or two for them to make a decision, and they send you a rejection notice the next day, what does that mean? Does it mean that you really said something at the interview that you shouldn't have said? Does it mean that you're not as good as your resume made you sound?

9/22/2010 9:23:50 AM

I'm seriously thinking about giving up the job search, biting my tongue and going to Texas. I'm convinced that I'm just not going to find anything. I've gotten stuck in that sweet spot where I'm not qualified enough for most software companies to even look at me, but I'm also overqualified just enough to scare off everybody else. At this point all I can do is find anything I can get and just wait out this recession.

9/23/2010 10:01:02 AM

Quote :

"I've been unemployed since I graduated with my MA in May I put out at least 5 job applications a week haven't even gotten an interview"

5 whole applications per week?

...what do you do with the rest of your time?

9/23/2010 10:31:34 AM

Quote :

"When interviewers tell you that it will take a week or two for them to make a decision, and they send you a rejection notice the next day"

sometimes they already decided that their buddy was gonna get the job, and they just asked for applications to look fair

9/23/2010 10:39:24 AM

Ok, gotta say some stuff

Quote :

"How much team vs individual work do I want? Don't know, never had a job before, never had to deal with it before. "

Don't you know that when you have no job experience to answer interview questions, you move onto schoolwork experience? You have had to deal with individual vs. teamwork before at school. If you don't have school experience, you probably shouldn't be having those questions at an interview anyways.

Quote :

"When interviewers tell you that it will take a week or two for them to make a decision, and they send you a rejection notice the next day, what does that mean? Does it mean that you really said something at the interview that you shouldn't have said? Does it mean that you're not as good as your resume made you sound?"

My impression is that they've already decided on someone else, but will have to wait on the acceptance from that person before they will say 'no' to you. Most likely they just called that person right after your interview and got an immediate yes. Don't worry about it, most likely they're under time constraints anyway to go ahead and get a new employee for the budget. How long did they have that position posted? You'd know if you totally bombed the interview.

Quote :

"5 whole applications per week? ...what do you do with the rest of your time? "

Yeah, that's ridiculous. I have a job right now and am still doing ~4 applications a week. If I was unemployed it would be closer to 3/day.

[Edited on September 23, 2010 at 10:47 AM. Reason : ]

9/23/2010 10:46:12 AM

Quote :

"When interviewers tell you that it will take a week or two for them to make a decision, and they send you a rejection notice the next day, what does that mean?"

it depends. If you were one of the last people they interviewed, then you were probably hands down not competing with the top 3 or so candidates. If you were one of the first people they interviewed, then there was probably something that made them believe you weren't a good fit. Could be personality, could be that you lacked experience in a crucial area. Who knows.

Call them and ask. Seriously. If you're not given a job, always ask why. Ask them why they felt you weren't a good fit for the position and if there are any areas in which they believe you can improve. - what do you have to lose but a little bit of time? At worst, they don't want to bother and blow you off. But you may get some very helpful information that you can use to improve your chances next time.



P.S. I'm officially employed after 5 months of being jobless. Start date is next thursday

[Edited on September 23, 2010 at 11:02 AM. Reason : .]

9/23/2010 11:00:47 AM

Interview 4 of 4 today. Hopefully 1 of the 4 I had this week pans outs.

9/23/2010 11:07:54 AM

why are the google phone screeners always late

rabble rabble rabble

9/23/2010 11:10:53 AM

My question is what to do when 2 college degrees have essentially failed you? I am not unemployed but seriously underemployed and unable to land a job in my field (Meteorology). This is a second Bachelors Degree for me so it stings much more. With 2 degrees I fall into the "sweet spot" also it seems. Overqualified for alot of basic jobs to keep me afloat while I keep looking, and not quite qualified enough for alot of jobs in the field that unofficially require a masters eventhough they say only a BS is required. I guess I can:

A) Go back to school yet again for the Masters (If I can even get in at this point)
B) Sail to a deserted Island somewhere and live off the land

9/23/2010 11:27:17 AM

what's your other degree?

9/23/2010 11:35:08 AM

Unless it's only a few extra credits I really don't understand the purpose of getting two bachelor degrees at once.

9/23/2010 11:39:01 AM

^ It was useless from the beginning (Art degree). I have touched that field in years though. Meteorology was the one I always wanted without a doubt.

[Edited on September 23, 2010 at 11:40 AM. Reason : .]

9/23/2010 11:39:24 AM

^^ I didn't get the degrees at the same time.

9/23/2010 11:40:35 AM

Ok, that makes more sense. I still hear about people getting two, sometimes three BAs in unrelated fields and it just seems like such a waste of time and money. Stupid lifelong ed students.

9/23/2010 11:41:52 AM

just because you have two (unrelated) degrees, you still need to start out at a low rung of whichever industry you choose to be in. Be the person who makes sure temperature loggers are calibrated, or be a mail person at an art gallery. Don't look just at commercial jobs, check out government positions as well. And only play up one degree, otherwise you may appear to be confusing, indecisive, and off-the-wall.

9/23/2010 1:34:11 PM

I have two interviews next week...wish me luck

9/23/2010 1:51:49 PM

yeah I am only playing up Meteorology for sure. The problem is because the private sector is essentially fallen flat in the field EVERYONE is going for gov't work. I have been applying to the NWS entry level positions and they have hundreds applying for one job each time.

9/23/2010 1:57:14 PM

^I know it sucks, but I would suggest getting a MS in Meteorology if you still plan on finding a career job in weather. Best thing you could do while waiting out this recession crap. There may be non-thesis Masters programs you could do that may be one one year, not really sure. That would certainly help for attempting to get into the NWS.

9/23/2010 2:52:59 PM

^ Yeah I may very well have to bite the bullet and return to school for a 3rd time.

9/23/2010 7:25:34 PM

Are you only into forecasting/operational?

9/23/2010 11:31:01 PM

Mamabagirl for the most part yes but I am open to any aspect of the field.

9/23/2010 11:51:15 PM

Quote :

"I still hear about people getting two, sometimes three BAs in unrelated fields and it just seems like such a waste of time and money."

I don't regret getting my English and Chemical Engineering degrees at the same time at all.

9/24/2010 7:50:08 AM