when I literally went into starvation mode (thanks adderall), I lost 10 pounds

when I had to go off the adderall before my sleep study, I basically gained all of it back immediately (and I wasn't even eating a lot... ok, well, the first few days I did eat more than usual because I was like OMG I HAVE MY APPETITE BACK)


that's one reason why I don't like the starvation mode thing. :\

4/25/2011 9:24:03 PM

the turbojam 10 day kickstart might be a good way to lose some weight in a fairly short amount of time.

http://www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_journal_individual.asp?blog_id=1111280

maybe just sub cardio for the turbojam workouts?

4/25/2011 9:33:45 PM

Boom!

Just made my Dave's Perfect Homemade Chicken Salad

80 cals, 1.6g fat, 6g carbs, 10.8g Protein per serving (1/3 cup)


and DELICIOUS

4/25/2011 9:35:08 PM

post the recipe.

4/25/2011 9:51:19 PM

Quote :

"Weight is still not budging although I've been good about watching what I'm eating, avoiding sulfites, and also now not drinking any alcohol. Still very frustrated. Here is what I ate today. Anyone want to take a shot at my diet?"

I hesitate to make any recommendations on your diet. What you've posted sounds fairly healthy, and you're clearly paying attention to what you eat and doing the best you can. But you're also dealing with some health issues that have a major impact on how your body is functioning and regulating its weight, so it's definitely outside my scope of knowledge; I would try to find a professional dietitian who's familiar with your conditions.

4/25/2011 9:57:30 PM

Quote :

"Often we struggle w/losing the last 5-15lbs because our calorie deficit is too HIGH. We misconstrue this as a "plateau", but in actuality our body is at a healthy weight, it's the aesthetic that we're unhappy with not our health. So if your cal deficit is over 1000 a day your body will signal a metabolic slow down as a survival response. No more than 1000 cal deficit a day is key for shred mode."

give me a fucking break.

oh, so a 999 calorie deficit is just fine, but a 1001 calorie deficit signals metabolic shutdown? and to see this bullshit peddled by the same people promoting the usefulness of CI=CO is just hilarious. what kind of doublethink do you have to engage in to believe that weight loss is a simple matter of fixing your food intake and exercise while simultaneously admitting that it most certainly is not that simple.

4/25/2011 10:06:01 PM

^^ Thanks friend. It's nice to be recognized for my attempts in healthy eating

At this point I feel really crazy because it's like "well I used to have no problem before what has changed now?" I work out more and consistently, I eat healthier than I did 2 years ago , I consume far less alcohol, etc etc. I get to a point where I'm running in circles. I don't want to be bone thin - but I know I can really get in tip top shape. If only what is going on internally would catch up with what is going on externally. I will say I have made a LOT of progress on building muscle - something I couldn't do because of a medication I was on. I guess I'm just waiting to see the pounds actually drop off.

[Edited on April 25, 2011 at 10:07 PM. Reason : Too slow]

4/25/2011 10:07:17 PM

Quote :

"when I literally went into starvation mode (thanks adderall), I lost 10 pounds when I had to go off the adderall before my sleep study, I basically gained all of it back immediately"

my question is....and correct me if im wrong.

you lost 10 lbs. thats a lot of weight, are you sure that you weren't eating at a new maintenance level? we're you exercising ther same amount that you always were?


whenever i've hit a plateau i have always been able to chalk it up to not eating right or not exercising as much as i did before. i've never had an instance where i felt like i had stalled but was doing everything else right.

i was turned off by the whole "starvation" mode thing when i had a friend who claims she went into it, upped her cals to 2400/day for a few weeks, gained some more weight (prolly about #10) , and then dropped the cals and went right back to the weight she started at.

and then claimed that she lost weight when in actuality the net loss was 0 lbs. she was right back where she started.

she tried to tell me that if i wanted to drop a few pounds i needed to eat like a pig for a few weeks (clean eating though) and then i would see the weight come off when i lowered it again.





[Edited on April 25, 2011 at 10:12 PM. Reason : when in actuality the net loss was 0 lbs. she was right back where she started. ]

4/25/2011 10:07:31 PM

I always thought adderall decreased your appetite.

4/25/2011 10:14:15 PM

yeah it does, like crazy... I wasn't working out a lot because it was around finals so I was in the library all day every day :\


I just didn't eat. Then I would feel like shit because as some of y'all know, I can't go without eating... so after like 8 hours following having MAYBE a yogurt for breakfast, I would think "I feel bad " ... then it would be an extra struggle to eat something without passing out first >.<

and in the beginning, I would have to force myself to eat


not. fun.

[Edited on April 25, 2011 at 10:18 PM. Reason : ooooo I'll look into the Turbo Jam stuff.. thanks ]

[Edited on April 25, 2011 at 10:19 PM. Reason : ps, I am trying to lose about 15 lbs by July, but just something quick for now]

[Edited on April 25, 2011 at 10:22 PM. Reason : fwiw Joie, the 10 lbs was over 3 weeks I think]

4/25/2011 10:18:12 PM

i hear you.


im not knockin it, i just never have experienced it....

[Edited on April 25, 2011 at 10:25 PM. Reason : i guess i am knockin it a bit though. not meaning to ]

4/25/2011 10:24:59 PM

no, feel free


it sucks and wasn't healthy

4/25/2011 10:32:43 PM

I maxed out on the bench today for the first time in probably 5 years. It felt a lot different to lift heavy and low volume for a change. I went back to volume for the rest of the workout though and finished it off with some cardio.

4/25/2011 11:38:34 PM

i haven't maxed out on bench since my sophomore year in high school.

4/26/2011 12:04:10 AM

All this nonsense about "starvation mode" needs to be cleared up.

From my reading research and experience, it's mostly a misunderstanding of how our metabolism works. Yes there are instances of metabolic derangement from thyroid problems or various other conditions, but generally these are rare exceptions.

When you are overweight for a significant amount of time, your body becomes efficient at operating at that level. Thus, if you begin dropping weight, your body runs even more efficiently, requiring less calories compared to someone who has been at that weight for a long period of time. This is also big if you are relatively sedentary most of the day (read: office job).

As body fat levels begin to decrease, leptin levels begin to fall. Leptin is a hormone that interacts with your hypothalamus and plays a part in hunger and metabolism. Thus, if you lose a large amount of body fat, leptin falls, hunger sky rockets. Carb's in the diet tend to illicit a leptin response, this is one reason why high-carb refeeds for those who have lost significant amounts of body fat are useful. Another reason they are useful is because it is psychologically gratifying.

It's also theorized that leptin resistence is the root of obesity. Once your brain/nervous system has been flooded with leptin (due to very high levels of body fat) for so long, the receptors become desensitized and no longer respond with satiating signals. Thus, the person can eat and eat and eat without getting full.

There are a handful of other metabolic/hormonal changes that affect appetite and energy levels, it is a very complicated system. But it is not magical... If you are in a significant calorie deficit, you will lose significant amounts of weight.

The bottom line: if you aren't losing weight, then you probably are not in a deep enough calorie deficit. Cut out the snacks, replace some carbs with protein and actually experience hunger for a few days, and see what the scale looks like from there.

4/26/2011 8:07:29 AM

The comments about not losing weight if you have ~1500 calorie deficit for the day are hilarious. That's a bunch of bullshit.

Fad and these theories along the same lines phase out for a reason. The reason being that the formula for losing weight is very simple. Burn more calories than you take in; no ifs, ands, or buts. I don't care if you eat every single one of you calories from Snickers bars. At the end of the day if you burn more than you took it, you're going to drop weight. There are of course other ramifications such as your vitals changing, and you may even look bloated and have poor muscle tone eating crap food all of the time, but the scale doesn't know the difference in all that.

I lost 143 lbs following that one rule. I never plateaued either. I fell past a healthy body weight for my build, and my body sure as hell never slowed down it's metabolism because of it.

I would guess whoever mentioned the fact that a loss in 10 lbs for a healthy person is a big change and the new maintenance calorie level could be lower than imagined is spot on.

4/26/2011 8:09:38 AM

Quote :

"i haven't maxed out on bench since my sophomore junior year in high school college."

4/26/2011 8:10:19 AM

^^^well said

4/26/2011 9:40:51 AM

I believe in starvation mode because it has happened to me. It may not have happened because I had a 1001 deficit but it did when I had 1500+ deficit almost every day, my weight loss definitely slowed to 1lb per week from 2-3lbs per week and everything else was the same except I was eating LESS. Now that I am eating MORE the weight is sliding off fast again. To each their own.

I just don't want to lose muscle I'm working hard to gain, I want to make sure my weight loss is fat and yes if you eat too little your body takes it's energy from your muscles to keep going.

Cass, I thought you were doing 3 scoops each time, I was all WHOA I'm a big girl and even I don't need that much protein haha! It's got to be frustrating to be doing the right things and still not lose weight, don't give up hope and maybe whoever mentioned it is right, we are not the best ones to offer advice because of your health issues, maybe you can talk to a nutritionist? I hope for your benefit things start looking up soon!

4/26/2011 9:43:28 AM

I did a double workout today and I'm on the verge of passing out. Literally.

Kinda discouraging. I was four minutes from finishing the whole thing. ><

4/26/2011 11:01:46 AM

Arn's Homemade Chicken Salad

The stuff is delicious and VERY healthy for you. A rare and excellent combo

Serving Size: 1/3 Cup
Calories: 80
Fat: 1.6g
Carbs: 6g
Protein: 10.8g


2.5-3 cups chicken breast meat (I usually go cooked canned chicken here)
1/4 cup dried cranberries
1/2 cup chopped celery
3 tablespoons chopped onion
1/2 cup chopped apple (I prefer granny smith here)
1/2 cup sliced seedless grapes
6 tablespoons Hellman's Light mayo
1 container (~6tablespoons) Danon Plain greek yogurt
2 tablespoons lemon juice
3 tablespoons sweet relish
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/8 teaspoon pepper


combine ingredients, mix well, enjoy

It's great as a sandwich w/your favorite bread and a nice crisp piece of lettuce.

[Edited on April 26, 2011 at 11:48 AM. Reason : meh]

4/26/2011 11:47:27 AM

Just got through my lunch time workout. Chest and back and a quick two mile run (I usually run long distances of 4+ miles at about an 8 minute pace...but I switch it up with a couple 7-minute miles once or twice a week).

Weighed myself and I'm down 13 pounds since my surprise most-I've-weighed-since-my-heavy-lifting-college-days weigh in about a month and a half ago. I lost a lot of it initially and I've been slowing chipping away since then. The low 150s is something I'm content with, but would still like to take an extra 5 lbs off.

It's been done mostly with lowering my portions during the day. Lighter breakfast (usually fruit with a rice cake or half an english muffin) and one less cup of coffee (no more sugar, one packet of splenda). Also a lighter lunch as well...maybe a protein shake and an apple or just turkey/tomato/lettuce/wheat bread sandwich.

I still drink a decent amount and have my big dinners...but I've been combating that with a lot more cardio and just overall physical activity. I ride my bike everywhere and have been doing a ton of yard work.

I was little worried that I was hitting an older age where it was going to be brutal to stay in good shape...but it seems that it just takes a little extra effort and a little will power to not eat when I'm not hungry...or to be able to stay hungry just a little while longer.

4/26/2011 12:40:10 PM

Quote :

"I did a double workout today and I'm on the verge of passing out. Literally. Kinda discouraging. I was four minutes from finishing the whole thing. ><"

Eating enough?

4/26/2011 12:57:43 PM

Friend sent me an interesting article on lifting before cardio.

basically:

10 min warmup
30 min weights
30 min cardio




http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/training-day/201104/warm-cardio-then-go-weights-right-wrong

Quote :

"Having been an athlete for most of my life, I figured I knew my way around the gym. On a typical day, I'd hit the treadmill or elliptical machine for 30 minutes, then move to the weight machines. And that's what I started to do when I recently joined a gym. Then I got my assessment -- you know, the review of your habits a lot of gyms do. And the review told me I was doing something wrong. Hit the weights hard, the assessment said. Then go to cardio. What? "The body needs to burn through its sugar source first before it taps into the fat," says Iman Nikzad, who runs the fitness program at my LA Fitness near Irvine, Ca. "You burn the sugar while doing the weights then burn the fat while doing the cardio." I did some more research and, turns out, he's right and I was wrong. The optimal workout is a 10-minute warm-up on a low-impact cardio machine followed by 30 minutes of weights and then 30 minutes of intense cardio. Yes, really. "Efficiency is the key when structuring any workout, so long-duration cardio should not be done in the beginning of the session," says certified strength and conditioning specialist Jim Smith. "The most intensive training should be done first in the workout, when you are at your best." By starting with weights, you alert your muscles to trigger the proteins that churn through calories while you train. So even though you're probably spent after 30 minutes of weights, your body is ready to eat fat faster than it would if you started by "telling" the body to attack sugar. A lot of people get this wrong, thinking weight training diminishes the effect of the cardio work. It's the opposite. Just remember the phrase: "Muscle eats the fat." If you want to lose the flab -- and who doesn't? -- you want your muscles as active as possible. That means starting with weights. And if you only have 30 minutes total, go for weights instead of cardio. That sounds counterintuitive, since we feel sweating is "proof" we're losing fat. But you will lose a lot more fat by pushing and pulling weights and then going on a brisk walk in your neighborhood (or even at the mall). The guy or gal who is dripping buckets on the Stairmaster is getting a good workout, but you're likely getting a better one by getting sore and not getting soaked."

4/26/2011 3:37:49 PM

I thought that was common sense. I've always known I get a piss poor workout if I do cardio first.

4/26/2011 3:57:17 PM

common sense to some.

This thread, however, lol.

4/26/2011 4:01:02 PM

If you're going for weight loss, lift first.

If you're going for bulk, run first.

4/26/2011 4:01:41 PM

Quote :

"If you're going for weight loss, lift first. If you're going for bulk, run first."

I disagree.

If you are going for size, cutting out all cardio is probably a better option. Or doing it on a separate day.

4/26/2011 5:37:50 PM

Quote :

"Eating enough?"

Yeah, I downed a greek gyro plate about an hour before the workout. Had chicken, lettuce, rice, cabbage, tomato, a pita and a little bit of tsatsiki (sp?) sauce. Figured I was good to go.

I ended up with a killer migraine last night (3.5 hours after workout). I don't think it had anything to do with the workout, but it might have meant that I had something funny in my system already.

I'm fine today. We'll see what happens I guess.

4/27/2011 1:34:50 AM

So, just to give some evidence to people skeptical about this starvation thing. The Last four weeks since I've been keeping track of calorie intake I've tried to keep it around 1600 thinking, like you guys, the higher my deficit the more I would obviously lose. Well, I only lost 3lbs. last month and in fact GAINED 2lbs. the last week.

After figuring some numbers out I upped my intake to 1900 a day and have lost 3lbs just this week alone. Maybe the size of the deficit doesn't matter but I do believe that your body needs a certain amount of calories to stay away from "famine mode".

4/27/2011 9:59:32 AM

did you keep your exercise level the exact same?
did you feel more tired after cutting and maybe we'ren't as energetic throughout the day and then it leads into your workout?

if starvation mode is real then how in the HELL do anorexics (those who eat ~500 cals/day) get so thin?



[Edited on April 27, 2011 at 10:09 AM. Reason : i could be very wrong, just posing some questions, you know i <3 you kiwi ]

4/27/2011 10:03:06 AM

lol yeah, I know!

Everything was the same except my calorie intake. I did feel a little more tired at 1600, AND hungry. I felt like I was trying to get too many nutrients in such small meals, I was sweating it way more, now I have 400 more calories to play with, that's almost another meal!

I've never been anorexic (lol) but I'd say it's because they rarely eat and when they do it's like 600 calories a day when their body is burning 1200/day (just making up numbers). The body is going to steal energy from their muscles and/or organs to make up for the severe deficit leaving them weak, and grossly thin.

Anorexics are also malnourished which causes a whole nother shit ton of issues. Now if an anorexic say decided to eat an entire pizza one day I bet their weight would increase the next morning for sure but keeping an extreme deficit for that long WILL make the body whither away. I think the reason they still lose weight is because they just aren't taking in enough for the body to store any of it because it is still eating itself to stay alive.

I'm having a hard time explaining myself here. But I feel like there is a thin line. I MAY be able to lose weight if I kept that deficit that long but I'd be losing it in the form of muscle and who knows what else to make up for the energy I wasn't taking in via food. But it would be a very slow process because my body would also be storing fat. DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE? haha it does to me.

I just think anorexia is an extreme just like overeating 6,000 calories/ day is an extreme too.

4/27/2011 10:17:08 AM

I might be thin enough now to post myself as a before picture, as sad as that is.

4/27/2011 10:17:33 AM

Dead Lift + Plyo Complex Day:

225lb Dead Lift + Box Jump 5x5.
135lbs Front Squat + 10lbs Med Ball Slam 3x10.
Shrugs + Calves. Abs.

#########

Joie, those are very relevant questions and the answers generally explain the reported "starvation mode" phenomenon people claim.

There's a thing called NEAT (Non Exercise Induced Activity Thermogenesis) which in layman's terms means activity/movement you do that is not exercise related. E.G. Walking to/from your car, up/down stairs, fidgeting, chewing, etc.

It's been found that NEAT is one of the largest difference factors between lean and overweight individuals. Another finding is that NEAT is proportional to energy intake. Generally, as you increase calories, NEAT ramps up. This mechanism isn't completely understood, but the correlation is there. So, in other words, many people who go in to a deep calorie deficit also cut down their NEAT.

To leverage the power of NEAT, upping your movement through out the day will be very effective. I.E. Change behaviors to things such as taking the stairs, parking farther away from your destination, do your tasks standing, taking mini-walk breaks, chew gum and fidget.

Strength training is very important to ramp up anti-catabolic/anabolic processes in order to spare/build muscle mass. However, there's a bigger impact on total weight loss by increasing NEAT significantly.


[Edited on April 27, 2011 at 10:23 AM. Reason : 0]

4/27/2011 10:19:25 AM

i just find it hard to believe that i could cut my calories to 1000 a day and people tell me i will forever remain at 140 lbs.

[Edited on April 27, 2011 at 10:21 AM. Reason : ^thanks dude! ]

4/27/2011 10:20:54 AM

grats to the guy who lost 150lbs

4/27/2011 10:21:29 AM

ps shawna....thats not sad!
thats awesome!

4/27/2011 10:25:33 AM

Nah, but when you begin to eat more than 1000 you'll gain it back because

1)you probably lost muscle
2) everyone has a healthy weight, yours may be 140 or somewhere close by

I don't know! All I know is I lost as much weight this week as I did last month and I feel grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat! ha

[Edited on April 27, 2011 at 10:42 AM. Reason : lawdy]

4/27/2011 10:42:30 AM

lol, i dont care to lose weight! i'm fine at 140


but won't you always gain more weight back if you begin eating more than what your used to? (assuming activity levels stay the same!)

[Edited on April 27, 2011 at 11:08 AM. Reason : sdf]

4/27/2011 10:52:03 AM

Down to 166lbs today

20lbs in 2 months with minimal loss in strength (and actually some new personal records.)

Looking to drop another 5-6lbs over the next 3 weeks before my Euro trip.

4/27/2011 11:08:05 AM

^^Yeah, if you are at a healthy weight. I am eating 400 calories more than I have in a month and am losing still. But, yes, if I ate more than however many calories I need to maintain my weight then yeah I'll gain.

4/27/2011 11:11:57 AM

Quote :

"There's a thing called NEAT (Non Exercise Induced Activity Thermogenesis) which in layman's terms means activity/movement you do that is not exercise related. E.G. Walking to/from your car, up/down stairs, fidgeting, chewing, etc. "

i bounce my legs a lot at my desk, is that why im so skinny? my brother thought it was why i could jump, lol.

4/27/2011 11:16:17 AM

weird. this time around i dunno where the weight is coming off my gut is still holding fat.

4/27/2011 11:56:30 AM

What are some ways to work the pecs at home? I have some weights around the house

Don't like going to gyms and everything else seems to be pretty easy to work on at home

Thanks for suggestions/ideas

4/27/2011 6:08:58 PM

pushups

4/27/2011 6:45:27 PM

yeh, that's what i currently do, was wondering if there was anything else that was a little different

4/27/2011 6:47:48 PM

Decline/incline push ups. Deep pushups, like hands on dumbbells or what not.

Dips will hit your chest too

[Edited on April 27, 2011 at 7:43 PM. Reason : l]

4/27/2011 7:42:55 PM

for those of you who take leg training seriously: do you ever bother with abductor/adductor machines? I always get the funniest looks from other people when I'm using them, but I can tell a serious difference in my squat technique when I've been consistent about doing them.

4/27/2011 10:46:21 PM

^occasionally.
usually its only when im screwin around, like i don't have an agenda and am just going from machine to machine am im not really focusing on anything.

if that makes any sense.
maybe like once every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks

4/27/2011 10:58:06 PM

Down to 164.7lbs this morning... The weight is sliding right off! Veins on my lower hips are becoming visible, my upper obliques and low back muscles are poking through with slight striations visible.

A refeed/cheat day is in order for tomorrow...

4/28/2011 8:02:04 AM