all i see is a bunch of fuzzy pictures enlarged to be even fuzzier with red circles around certain parts. ya know i can do that too.

7/25/2005 2:15:19 PM

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2005/270705bombingaftermath.htm

Quote :

"London Bombing Aftermath: The Spin Continues Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet | July 27 2005 Since the Friday shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, an innocent man with no links to terrorism or suicide bombers, we have been subjected to further spin and misdirection in an attempt to stifle real questions about the 7/7 bombing. The original bombing story has been permanently removed from the front pages of the nation's newspapers. Publications like the London Mirror were starting to ask serious questions about how the alleged bombers were set up by another group and were unaware of the fact that they would be killed in the blasts."

7/27/2005 11:54:23 AM

^^ come on, man. I think salisbury is just posting everything he finds as well, but look at the damn photos. they DO look doctored



also, a comment from someone on that site

Quote :

" Im art director of a multimedia agency in europe. I work with photoshop and similar programs every day and I know them quite well. The photo of the bombers appears to be doctored, yes. But the nature of the doctoring is especially curious, as it appears to be deliberately faked. With that I mean that the mistakes in this photo are more difficult to put in than to leave out. If I wanted to doctor a photo like that, then I could easily do so without having the bars go through the guys arm and head (in photoshop). "

i was thinking the same thing. how the hell would you insert a guy into the photo and have bars showing up? if you stuck him on top, he should cover the bars. it is kinda weird

7/27/2005 12:08:17 PM

Quote :

"The original bombing story has been permanently removed from the front pages of the nation's newspapers."

Well, no, it hasn't. It's still reported on daily. But how would you know? You never read newspapers. You turn to prisonplanet.com, infowars.com, etc for your news.

Quote :

"Publications like the London Mirror were starting to ask serious questions about how the alleged bombers were set up by another group and were unaware of the fact that they would be killed in the blasts."

From the London Mirror:

Quote :

"Police and MI5 are probing if the four men were told by their al-Qaeda controller they had time to escape after setting off timers. Instead, the devices exploded immediately."

Not only does this have absolutely nothing to do with your asinine little conspiracy theory, but it also explicitly agrees with the official story. Please do a little bit more research before posting this garbage here.

Quote :

"i was thinking the same thing. how the hell would you insert a guy into the photo and have bars showing up? if you stuck him on top, he should cover the bars. it is kinda weird"

It looks like his arm is bent, showing the bar behind him. The bar going through his head looks like an optical illusion created by a cheap security camera. If it actually were photoshopped I wouldn't expect someone to leave tiny things like that could be easily touched up.

[Edited on July 27, 2005 at 12:13 PM. Reason : .]

7/27/2005 12:09:50 PM

ANOTHER SHITTY THREAD BY YOU

7/28/2005 12:15:20 AM

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/27/world/main712368.shtml

Quote :

"Did London Bombers Intend To Die? LONDON, July 27, 2005 (CBS/AP) They bought roundtrip train tickets and paid for long-term parking — two of the details that are prompting the intelligence community to question if the four London bombers intended to die. On July 7, Hasib Hussain, Shahzad Tanweer, and Mohammad Sidique Khan traveled to Luton, north of London, to meet with Jermaine Lindsay. According to experts who have been briefed by police, they parked a rental car outside the train station and paid to park for seven days, then purchased roundtrip tickets to London. Police later found explosives in the car. CBS News Correspondent Richard Roth reports that analysts are still perplexed why men on a one-way suicide mission bought round-trip train tickets. "Although these people all died with their bombs, it is far from clear to me that they knew they were going to die," said Michael Clarke, a terrorism analyst."

[Edited on July 29, 2005 at 1:52 PM. Reason : won]

7/29/2005 1:52:26 PM

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/c3c9fa22-fed0-11d9-94b4-00000e2511c8,dwp_uuid=46d6f5a8-d260-11d8-b661-00000e2511c8,ft_acl=,s01=2.html

Quote :

"‘Nothing to link Muslims with attacks’ By Jonathan Guthrie Published: July 27 2005 Mohammed Naseem, Birmingham's most prominent Muslim leader, claimed yesterday there was nothing to prove Muslims carried out bomb attacks in London on July 7 and 21. The comments of the chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque are surprising given the wealth of evidence, including DNA matches and CCTV images, linking at least eight young Muslim men to the outrages. However, his views are held by a significant number of British Muslims. Some blame the US and Israel for terrorist attacks such as September 11, revealing a deep distrust of the British authorities. Mr Naseem denied there was any convincing evidence the September 11 attacks on New York had been carried out by the al-Qaeda terrorist organisation. He said: “Muslims across the world know of no organisation called al-Qaeda. That information comes from the CIA.” Mr Naseem, who represents a congregation of several thousand, was speaking in Bordesley Green close to the scene of yesterday's police anti-terrorism operation. Asked whether he believed Muslim terrorists attacked London on July 7 and 21, he said: “I have not seen the evidence for that.” He said: “All we have is CCTV camera photos, identity cards and driving licences. These could have been innocent men.”"

7/29/2005 2:32:21 PM

so, let me get this straight. People who don't want to be seen as having a similarity with the attackers say "well, we don't think these guys were one of us!" and offer no evidence for this assertion... And you believe them. makes sense to me

7/29/2005 5:35:38 PM

^ Thats just like how salisburyboy has views similar to a lot of white supremacist groups. Of course, they make him look bad, so he argues that such organizations are actually run by the jews.

7/30/2005 8:05:28 PM

http://www.rense.com/general67/says.htm

Quote :

"Former MI5 Agent Says Bombings Look Like Inside Job By Greg Szymanski 7-30-5 A former British intelligence agent, jailed in 2002 for linking the British government with paying an Islamic militant group $160,000 in a failed assassination attempt on Colonel Mu'ammar al-Qadhafi of Libya, said this week the recent London bombings have all the earmarks of an inside job just like 9/11. "It's amazing how many aspects of the two events are so similar," said David Shayler, the former MI5 agent and whistle blower, in a telephone conversation this week from his home in East Bonn on the southern coast of England. Shayler, a thorn in the British government's side ever since he blew the whistle in 1997 about rampant corruption within both arms of British intelligence, MI5 (domestic) and MI6 (foreign), said he has just began looking into the details of the 7/7 attacks, but what's being released through the press and government reports shows a strikingly similar pattern to what he calls "the same type of misinformation thrown out after 9/11." "First, we learn about the training exercises going on here just like 9/11. Next, they release suspicious evidence left behind by the culprits as well as quickly releasing identifying pictures of the suspects just like the did after 9/11," he said. Shayler added that what's even more suspicious is the private security firm in charge of the training drills prior to 7/7 had ties to former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani. Further, he also received information that one of the named suicide bombers, whose picture was released in the London press, has turned up alive and well in Pakistan. "Just like in the United States, we here in England are being bombarded with what looks like a lot of misinformation in the press," said Shayler. "Apparently, one of the supposed suicide bombers has turned up alive just like six or seven of the 19 Arab hijackers turned up alive after 9/11.""

7/31/2005 2:54:04 PM

soooo, in other words, a man who was jailed back in the day says that the shit was an inside job. and you believe him. His proof? "OMFG! THEY FOUND EVIDENCE QUICKLY!!! OMFG!"

7/31/2005 2:57:11 PM

Quote :

"Next, they release suspicious evidence left behind by the culprits as well as quickly releasing identifying pictures of the suspects just like the did after 9/11"

That's what they do whenever something is being investigated. If you watched the real news, you would know this. They show their evidence, and then show pictures of the suspects. How the hell does that look like an inside job. Oh wait, when you're salisburyboy, every single world event looks like an inside job.

7/31/2005 3:24:33 PM

news reporter: "someone took a dump in the owen showers."
salisburyboy: "OMG! IT WAS A AN INSIDE JOB BY THE GOV'T TO MAKE US AFRAID OF TAKING SHOWERS!!!"
aaronburro: "Actually, it was probably just a stupid, drunk, college student..."
salisburyboy: "THATS WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK! CHECK OUT THIS ARTICLE FROM ANTICHRISTTODAY.COM ABOUT IT!!!"

7/31/2005 3:59:04 PM

London Bombings So-called "Mastermind" is MI6 Asset
http://www.infowars.com/articles/London_attack/mastermind_mi6_asset.htm

Quote :

"On FOX News Channel's Day Side, Terrorism Expert John Loftus revealed that Haroon Rashid Aswat, the suspect wanted by British Police for "masterminding" the July 7th London bombings and July 21st attempted bombings is in fact an asset of MI6, the British Secret Service. According to Loftus, Aswat has been under the protection of MI6 for many years."

WAS 7/7 "MASTERMIND" ASWAT WORKING FOR BRITISH INTELLIGENCE?
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=75984

[Edited on August 2, 2005 at 12:13 AM. Reason : "]

8/2/2005 12:11:21 AM

Rumormillnews.com sure sounds like a legitimate source to me. We should all go ahead and buy into this without questioning it, just like salisburyboy.

8/2/2005 12:26:23 AM

The rumormillnews article above is drawing from a FOX News report where terrorism expert John Loftus revealed that Aswat is a MI6 asset.

8/2/2005 5:56:53 PM

Its drawing from a Fox News report, but afterwards begins a slew of mindless speculation and assumption. Now if you actually read the entire Fox News piece, not just the bolded statements that are meant to sound incriminating when taken out of context, you get a much more realistic representation of what happened. Regardless, the fact the only outlet to post this is named rumormillnews.com says a lot about the legitimacy of your sources.

By the way, I'm worried about your 9/11 thread, you've really been neglecting it in the aftermath of the London bombings.

Could you explain to all of us how you came to the conclusion that this was a government conspiracy before all of the facts were even known? You really seemed to jump the gun on this one, as if you had decided that it was a conspiracy before even examining any evidence.

8/2/2005 8:19:15 PM

Video: Alex Jones Bullhorns British Parliament Building
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2005/030805alexbullhorns.htm

8/3/2005 11:19:40 PM

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Thats one of the funniest things that I've ever seen. You get your news from a guy who yells on a street corner. Classic.

Is this supposed to prove something?

8/4/2005 10:09:41 AM

jesus dont tell me you actuall read any of the posts he puts up??

8/4/2005 10:12:46 AM

thats the best way to point out how stupid they all are.

8/4/2005 10:16:34 AM

NYPD Says 7/7 Bombs Detonated By Mobile Phones
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4746835.stm

Quote :

"New York police insist they were right to release details of the bombs that killed 56 people in London, even though they had not been vetted by UK police. Deputy NYPD commissioner Paul Browne said commissioner Raymond Kelly was right to include details of the devices in a briefing for security experts. These included saying the 7 July bombs had been detonated by mobile phones."

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2005/050805mobilephones.htm

Quote :

"Comment: No wonder Scotland Yard are angry at them for releasing these details. Why can't they get their story straight? Were the bombs detonated by suicide bombers or remotely? If they were detonated remotely then what role did the 'suicide bombers' play? And how does the witness report of one of the bombs being underneath the train fit into all this?"

8/5/2005 11:52:25 AM

Quote :

"The bombs were transported to the outskirts of London in drink coolers stashed in the boot of two cars and detonated by mobile phones that had alarms set to 0850 BST, the officials added. "

How did Alex Jones miss that? The cell phones were just timers. Damn son.

8/5/2005 12:04:00 PM

Quote :

"In what was the climax of Alex Jones' lightning speed tour of London, a world famous public venue and a giant white megaphone were the only ingredients needed to provide Alex with what he described as one of the highlights of his life."

Somehow I am not surprised

8/5/2005 3:11:14 PM

London 7/7/05 bombings another government sponsored false flag "terrorist" attack
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mparent7777/982542.html

Quote :

"Last week's London explosions carry the characteristic features of a state-sponsored, false flag, synthetic terror provocation by networks within the British intelligence services MI-5, MI-6, the Home Office, and the Metropolitan Police Special Branch who are favorable to a wider Anglo-American aggressive war in the Middle East, featuring especially an early pre-emptive attack on Iran, with a separate option on North Korea also included. With the London attacks, the Anglo-American invisible government adds another horrendous crime to its own dossier. But this time, their operations appear imperfect, especially in regard to the lack (so far) of a credible patsy group which, by virtue of its ethnicity, could direct popular anger against one of the invisible government's targets. So far, the entire attribution of the London crimes depends on what amounts to an anonymous posting in an obscure, hitherto unknown, secular Arabic-language chatrooms in the state of Maryland, USA. But, based on this wretched shred of pseudo-evidence, British Prime Minister Tony Blair — who has surely heard of a group called the Irish Republican Army, which bombed London for more than a decade — has not hesitated to ascribe the murders to "Islam," and seems to be flirting with total martial law under the Civil Contingencies Act. We are reminded once again of how he earned his nickname of Tony Bliar."

8/5/2005 11:19:50 PM

Proof? Evidence? Nothing?

OK. Thanks.

8/6/2005 2:45:35 PM

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2005/070805finalword.htm

Quote :

"7/7 Bombings Final Word: Only conspiracy theorists would believe the government wasn't involved Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones | August 7 2005 The wealth of evidence that has emerged in the month following the 7/7 London bombings only leads us to one clear conclusion, that the attacks had to have been orchestrated by or with help from the very highest levels of British intelligence. The latest piece of evidence to suggest that the official story is a fraud focuses again on the contention that the bombs were placed under the trains and were not detonated by suicide bombers wearing backpacks. The first eyewitness to report this was Bruce Lait, a victim of the Aldgate Station bombing. He told the Cambridge Evening News, "The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train. They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag." Now another credible source, Guardian journalist Mark Honigsbaum, talked to eyewitnesses at the Edgware Road bombing, who essentially described the same thing. Eyewitnesses told Honigsbaum that "tiles, the covers on the floor of the train, suddenly flew up, raised up." How could the floor of the train raise up from a bomb supposedly in the backpack of an individual seated in the carriage, above the floor? The victims then heard "an almighty crash" as a train traveling in the opposite direction collided, clearly indicating that the train had derailed due to the bomb being placed under the carriage."

8/7/2005 9:32:51 PM

Ah yes, another article from self proclaimed "terrorism experts" Paul Joseph Watson and Alex Jones. Why exactly should we trust their forensic anlaysis of a terror attack? Did they take into account all evidence regarding the attack? Can we assume that they examined all evidence with an open mind? The sad truth is that they were calling this a government attack before any of the evidence was even public. As I would expect from a website called "prisonplanet.com" all world events are immediately assumed to be part of a conspiracy, with supporting evidence being filled in later as it can be creatively interpreted and fitted to the story. Do you think that this is an objective analysis of the evidence available? No, its a psuedo-news story written by a man who stands on street corners and yells at people.

Since the artice is called "7/7 Bombings Final Word" I'm hopeful that you'll stop posting in this thread.

8/7/2005 9:46:38 PM

Quote :

"I'm hopeful that you'll stop posting in this thread"

Keep dreaming.

And you're delusional if you think your pathetic little posts are converting any intelligent person who has seriously followed the London bombings to your side. At best, you're preaching to your own choir of disinfo agents. At least I am presenting articles containing evidence and facts. All you're doing is adding your own opinion.

Any intelligent person who is seriously following this can see that there are MANY problems with the official story, indicating at the very least the strong possibility that the government is lying about what really happened--the eyewitness reports that a bomb was underneath the train, the suspicious "drills" being conducted at the same time and locations of the actual attacks, initial official claims that military grade explosives were used change to claims that homemade explosives were used, the supposed "suicide bombers" buy return train tickets and are family men who don't fit the profile of "suicidal" killers, the "convenient" malfunction of the bus cameras on the day of the attack, etc., etc. etc.

Quote :

"Proof? Evidence? Nothing?"

PLENTY of it. It's absolutely laughable that you would suggest there is no evidence showing the official story is a lie.

Speaking of evidence, what evidence is there to suggest the official story is true? Do we really know that "al-Queda terrorists" are to blame for this attack?

Quote :

"The so-called claim of responsibility for the attack was made by a group that is known to not physically exist and which at best is one guy sitting at a computer posting messages on a forum. And yet the establishment media still report Al-Qaeda responsibility for the attack as if it were the gospel truth. Exactly what evidence have we seen to even agree with the contention that four men with rucksack bombs carried out this attack? Four grainy CCTV pictures of dark skinned men with rucksacks? Should we not question this evidence especially when verified witnesses on two of the three trains that were bombed said that the bombs were underneath the train and that they saw no men with rucksacks even in the area? Questions about the attacks are never ending. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2005/070805finalword.htm"

[Edited on August 7, 2005 at 10:28 PM. Reason : 5]

8/7/2005 10:16:28 PM

Quote :

"And you're delusional if you think your pathetic little posts are converting any intelligent person who has seriously followed the London bombings to your side."

Who is there to convert? You're the only poster who continually posts this sort of material. Regardless, you are in no position to bring up changing someones opinion.

Quote :

"At best, you're preaching to your own choir of disinfo agents."

WTF are you even talking about?

Quote :

"At least I am presenting articles containing evidence and facts. All you're doing is adding your own opinion."

I'm questioning the credibility of the material as well as the conclusions reached. This is how a critical anaysis of anything works. If it were legitimate material it would be difficult to point out as many holes in it.

Quote :

"Any intelligent person who is seriously following this can see that there are MANY problems with the official story, indicating at the very least the strong possibility that the government is lying about what really happened..."

coincidence =/= causality

The problem with this is that you made up you mind that this was a government plot immediately. Rational people reach a conclusion after examining information, not before. Naturally, you squeeze anything that you can find into this theory while completely overlooking the remaining information. The analysis that you present is anything but objective.

Quote :

"It's absolutely laughable that you would suggest there is no evidence showing the official story is a lie."

As I've said, you include all evidence that supports your idea and leave out anything that may contradict it. The fact that coincidences exist does not mean that it was all a part of some grand plot by an unseen (and unproven) organization trying to achieve global dominance. The sad truth is that you have proven absolutely nothing.

Ah yes, and now you post something by prisonplanet.com in the hopes that it will prove something. While the claim made by some dubious al Qaeda affiliated group may not be legitimate, the fact remains that several suspects now in custody have known ties to al Qaeda. Oh let me guess, that can't be true because it was reported by a mainstream source and completely contradicts your entire theory?

[Edited on August 7, 2005 at 11:29 PM. Reason : the jews!]

8/7/2005 11:28:11 PM

http://www.infowars.net/Pages/Aug05/100805Aswat.html

Quote :

" Scotland Yard "Not Interested" in 7/7 Mastermind Aswat. "Incompetence theorists" still deny inside involvement Steve Watson/Infowars | August 10 2005 On August 2nd we reported the revelation that the "mastermind" of the 7/7 London Bombings, Haroon Rashid Aswat, is a British Intelligence Asset. Former Justice Dept. Prosecutor and Terror expert John Loftus revealed that British Intelligence and the US dept of Justice had protected Haroon Rashid Aswat: "Back in 1999 he came to America. The Justice Department wanted to indict him in Seattle because him and his buddy were trying to set up a terrorist training school in Oregon... we've just learned that the headquarters of the US Justice Department ordered the Seattle prosecutors not to touch Aswat... , apparently Aswat was working for British intelligence" On 29th July the London Times reported that Aswat had been arrested in Zambia in "Britain's biggest manhunt". Aswat had been named as a "key Al Qaeda figure" in FBI documents and According to several newspaper and wire reports, Aswat spoke with some of the four July 7 attackers. Aswat had apparently been "on the run" since 1999 yet he was allowed to live and work in London and come and go from Britain as he pleased. Days after the bombings he was said to be in Pakistani custody, yet he somehow managed to slip away from the authorities there as well and ended up in Africa. British anti-terror investigators have since downplayed the theory of Aswat as the mastermind behind 7/7, yet it has now been reported that Aswat has been brought back into Britain yet Scotland Yard are "not interested" in talking to him. Instead Scotland Yard seem to be more concerned with charging the dummy bombers of 21/7 who killed no-one and whose bombs consisted of flour. NO ONE HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH OR QUESTIONED ABOUT THE REAL BOMBINGS THAT KILLED OVER 50 PEOPLE. WHY? The indication seems to be because it was an inside Intelligence operation. We have exhaustively documented the clear evidence that the mainstream media will not cover. It's the same operation everytime. The real terrorists are allowed to go free, because they are working within intelligence service guidelines, whilst a group of patsies or failed copycats are grabbed and publicly blamed. Aswat has been named as a "Key Al Qaeda figure", even if he was not involved in the bombings you would expect our security services to want to question him extensively in an attempt to extract any knowledge he may have. You would also expect our mainstream media to be up in arms over this issue, yet they do not question a single thing. ... Ask yourself two questions, firstly Incompetence or Conspiracy? Is it more likely that British security services, police force and media act with such incompetence at all levels, top to bottom, consistently again and again and again, or is it more likely that at the very top a small corrupt cabal is purposefully letting these "mistakes" happen because it is part of a pre-planned agenda? Secondly who benefits? Do the Islamic fundamentalists, who become demonized throughout the entire Muslim and Western world, whose outlets to preach their ideologies become severely restricted, and whose very survival becomes under threat. Or do the authorities who get greater funding, increased powers, extended freedom to operate and carte blanche privileges that take precedent over any public civil liberties that may have previously infringed their activities? If, as we are told over and over, the terrorists hate us because they hate our freedom then why are the authorities, who are supposedly fighting terror, restricting our freedom?"

8/10/2005 6:06:44 PM

Quote :

"they DO look doctored"

no

8/10/2005 6:17:15 PM

VIDEO: Alex Jones In London, Interviews with Meacher, Shayler & Machon
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2005/110805jonesinlondon.htm

Quote :

"This freeview video features exclusive unseen footage from Alex Jones' London research trip. Interview segments with Michael Meacher MP and former British MI5 agents David Shayler and Annie Machon are included. Also see extra footage of Alex bullhorning Parliament! David Shayler blew the whistle on MI5/MI6 funding of Al Qaeda to carry out political assassinations and was arrested in his attempts to expose government protection of terrorists. Annie Machon's recent book exposes both this case and the suspicious death of Diana Princess of Wales, which is also discussed. Michael Meacher MP, former Blair environment minister, garnered public attention when he publicly criticized the phoniness of the war on terror back in 2003 and raised questions about the official version of 9/11."

8/12/2005 5:47:47 PM

http://prisonplanet.com/Pages/Aug05/130805bombings.htm

Quote :

"Official Line on London Bombings changes AGAIN. Bombings not linked, there is NO mastermind London Independent | August 13 2005 Comment: The Ministry of Truth goes to work once more. With the help of MI5 and MI6, the "investigation" has revealed that there was NO mastermind, and the bombings were not connected. They have HAD to change the facts because it came out that Haroon Rashid Aswat, the guy they announced to be the mastermind of the Bombings has been working with British Intelligence for at least six years. The suicide cell that killed 52 people on 7 July is not linked to those alleged to be behind the second London attacks on 21 July, according to the initial findings of the biggest anti-terrorist investigation held in Britain. An investigation into the four suicide bombers from the first attacks and the people alleged to be behind the July 21 plot has found no evidence of any al-Qa'ida "mastermind" or senior organiser. The inquiry involved MI5, MI6, the listening centre at GCHQ, and the police."

8/13/2005 2:31:53 PM

OMG!!! The investigation has revealed new information!!!

This must be a conspiracy!

Why exactly do you have a hard time believing that the attacks were carried out by self-sufficient terror cells? Could you please go ahead and prove something before this thread hits 5 pages?

8/15/2005 12:29:53 AM

Quote :

"Mr. Joshua: "Could you please go ahead and prove something before this thread hits 5 pages?""

I HAVE presented evidence and proof in this thread showing that the official story is false. But that evidence doesn't mean much to you. You apparantly already have decided to believe and parrot whatever CNN and the rest of the Zionist-controlled mainstream media says. No amount of evidence is going to make you disbelieve the mainstream media's version of the event...no matter how ridiculous the official story is.

Interestingly, the government and mainstream media have NOT proved that al-Queda or muslim terrorists were in fact responsible, but that hasn't stopped you from maintaining that the official story is the gospel truth.


[Edited on August 15, 2005 at 1:04 AM. Reason : 3]

8/15/2005 12:58:21 AM

Quote :

"I HAVE presented evidence and proof in this thread showing that the official story is false."

Really? Where? It all looks like coincidence and conjecture to me.

Quote :

"You apparantly already have decided to believe and parrot whatever CNN and the rest of the Zionist-controlled mainstream media says."

I consider everything that the mainstream media presents. The practice legitimate journalism. Your sources do not.

Quote :

"No amount of evidence is going to make you disbelieve the mainstream media's version of the event...no matter how ridiculous the official story is."

Sadly, you don't provide evidence, you present coincidence and conjecture. You cannot provide any clear links. What you fail to see is that your story is infinitely more ridiculous than the official story.

Quote :

"Interestingly, the government and mainstream media has NOT proved that al-Queda or muslim terrorists were in fact responsible, but that hasn't stopped you from maintaining that the official story is the gospel truth."

They have credibility. You do not. As soon as you disprove any of their claims, I'll begin to take you more seriously.

8/15/2005 1:08:19 AM

the 1|_|_\//\/\|/\//-\7| have obviously gotten to you, Mr Joshua

8/15/2005 8:52:02 AM

Quote :

"They have credibility."

This is one of your biggest problems. You fail to see how the mainstream media has lied to the American people repeatedly...for decades--Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, JFK assassination, TWA 800, Waco, 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, 9/11, the war Iraq (WMDs), among many other issues. And that's only mentioning lies. Not to mention the numerous things that have been suppressed and not reported at all or hardly reported, including the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty and many other issues. The list of lies and deception goes on and on and on.

And then you turn around and claim that those who expose the truth about these issues "don't have credibility"....apparantly for no other reason than the fact that their evidence and conclusions are at odds with the "official story" put forth by the government and mainstream media.

Quote :

"As soon as you disprove any of their claims, I'll begin to take you more seriously."

I have presented the evidence that conclusively disproves the official story on many issues...including 9/11, Oklahoma City, and the London bombings. No amount of your insane claims that I haven't presented proof is going to change that. Keep screaming that I haven't proved anything. It doesn't change the fact that I have.

For example, I have presented the video tapes of local Oklahoma City news channels reporting on the fact that there were at least 2 unexploded bombs removed from the Murrah Federal Building and that the BATF (who had offices in the Murrah Federal Building) had prior knowledge of the bobming and had vacated their offices the morning of the bombing. That conclusively proves that the official story is a lie.

Furthermore, notice here that you continue to place the burden of proof on me and those who question the official story of events. How about you place that burden on yourself and on the mainstream media. Why don't you hold the mainstream media and government to the same standard? Why don't you require that THEY prove that the "official story" is true? But, you seem to operate out of the presumption that the "official story" on any subject is true, and that anyone who challenges the official story has the burden of proof to disprove the official story.


[Edited on August 15, 2005 at 12:15 PM. Reason : 5]

8/15/2005 12:02:19 PM

Quote :

"You fail to see how the mainstream media has lied to the American people repeatedly..."

You have yet to prove that any of those are lies before I'll begin to doubt the credibility. I'm not asking you for a link to a website that says that they are lies, I'm asking for definitive proof that shows beyond a doubt that those were lies. You cannot do this, and if you can you haven't.

Quote :

"And then you turn around and claim that those who expose the truth about these issues "don't have credibility"....apparantly for no other reason than the fact that their evidence and conclusions are at odds with the "official story" put forth by the government and mainstream media."

Actually, their lack of credibility has nothing to do with the official story. It has everything to do with the fact that your websites report coincidence and speculation as fact. They do not provide sufficient evidence. You have yet to prove a single theory in all of your threads. If the truth is so obvious, why can't you produce any hard proof? Sadly, you have absolutely no problem buying into what the mainstream media reports when it doesn't contradict your theories, otherwise you disregard all of it as lies. Its really just a convenient mistrust for you.

Quote :

"I have presented the evidence that conclusively disproves the official story on many issues...including 9/11, Oklahoma City, and the London bombings."

Do you even know what conclusive proof is? Simply presenting a link to prisonplanet.com that reports coincidence as the signs of a hidden truth doesn't prove anything. Creative interpretation of pictures and quotes is not proof either.

Quote :

"Why don't you hold the mainstream media and government to the same standard? Why don't you require that THEY prove that the "official story" is true?"

They provide eye-witness testimony. They provide the opinion of experts. The provide pictures and video. There is also a degree of redundancy. There are hundreds of media outlets. When they all report similar things its very likely that it is true. Of course, you try to deny this by making the wild accusation that all media outlets are controlled by some secret organization. You cannot prove this, you simply say it because its a vital part of the theory that you choose to put your faith into.

Quote :

"But, you seem to operate out of the presumption that the "official story" on any subject is true, and that anyone who challenges the official story has the burden of proof to disprove the official story."

Well, you do have the burden of proof. You have to convince me that I should believe the voices on the internet rather than the voices of the established media that has existed around the world for decades. You have to prove that every single media outlet, every single reporter, and every single journalist is lying to perpetuate some wild conspiracy. Please do this if you want rational thinkers to abandon the mainstream media and instead believe whatever Jeff Rense and Alex Jones want us to believe.

[Edited on August 15, 2005 at 12:23 PM. Reason : .]

8/15/2005 12:14:41 PM

Quote :

"Mr. Joshua: "You have yet to prove that any of those are lies before I'll begin to doubt the credibility. I'm not asking you for a link to a website that says that they are lies, I'm asking for definitive proof that shows beyond a doubt that those were lies. You cannot do this, and if you can you haven't.""

Quote :

"For example, I have presented the video tapes of local Oklahoma City news channels reporting on the fact that there were at least 2 unexploded bombs removed from the Murrah Federal Building and that the BATF (who had offices in the Murrah Federal Building) had prior knowledge of the bobming and had vacated their offices the morning of the bombing. That conclusively proves that the official story is a lie."

Let's simplify this. Mr. Joshua, can you please respond to the specific issue of the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Have you seen the video from the local Ok. City news stations that I refer to above? If so, how are those not proof that the official story is a lie?

[Edited on August 15, 2005 at 12:19 PM. Reason : 1]

8/15/2005 12:18:26 PM

No, I haven't seen them.

Tell me this:

How are they proof that the official story actually is a lie?

You're making the assumption that because no ATF agents were killed in the bombing the ATF knew about the bombing beforehand. This is creative interpretation and conjecture. It is by no means conclusive proof.

[Edited on August 15, 2005 at 12:30 PM. Reason : .]

8/15/2005 12:30:27 PM

FEEL FREE TO TOTALLY IGNORE THIS EVIDENCE, Mr. Joshua. IT COMPLETELY DESTROYS THE OFFICIAL STORY. YOU WOULDN'T WANT THIS ON YOUR "CONSCIENCE." DON'T LOOK AT IT.


The video footage from the Ok. City local news channels detailing additioinal bombs and BATF prior knowledge is included in Alex Jones' film 9/11: The Road To Tyranny. The portion of the film covering Oklahoma City begins about 30 minutes into the film and lasts about 30 minutes.

Watch 9/11: The Road To Tyranny here:
http://www.archive.org/download/911theRoadtoTyranny/911theroadtotyranny.wmv


Website with numerous links to audio of Ok. City local news reports
http://www.welfarestate.com/okc/


Audio of News reports detailing additional bombs in the Murrah Building
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/cnn041995.mp3
(right click link & select 'Save Target As' to download)


whatreallyhappened's Oklahoma City page:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/ok.html


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22874

Quote :

"Witnesses heard multiple explosions Experts say Murrah Building damage not done by truck blast alone By Jon Dougherty © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com Multiple witnesses reported hearing more than one explosion the day the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City was bombed, while other explosives experts contend that the damage done to the building could not have been caused by a single bomb placed outside in a truck."

The New American article on additional bombs in Murrah Federal Building:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1998/vo14no15/vo14no15_bombs.htm

8/15/2005 1:03:17 PM

man i feel sorry for you

8/15/2005 1:15:34 PM

I don't ignore any of your "evidence" I consider it, but then I generally dismiss it because it so full of holes and logical fallacies.

So what do we have here? Initial reports stating that two unexploded bombs were present. These reports were later dropped. I guess that its impossible that the reports were later found to be untrue? Generally when a huge catastrophic event like this happens, reporters scramble to find out whatever they can, often misreporting the truth. On the morning of 9/11/01 all of the mainstream sources were reporting that a car bomb went off at the state department.

Supposing that additional bombs actually were present, why didn't they go off? Do you expect me to believe that the Zionist Movement that controls all of the world media, kills people at a whim, and is responsible for every single bad thing in the world is so inept that they can't detonate 2 out of 3 bombs? How could they demolish the WTC if they're so bad with explosives?

Furthermore, if the media is controlled by NWO, why would they even report the existance of the additional bombs? Wouldn't they completely compromise their goal? But wait a minute, this is one of the times where you believe the mainstream media. You actually want me to take their reporting as fact in order to see that it is all a lie? This is another perfect example of the ridiculous logic that you must use in order to convince yourself of these things.

8/15/2005 1:18:58 PM

Well, for what's worth, it is good when people ask questions. However, it is hard to substantiate or corraborate many of the articles that are posted. For example, using The New American article about the OKC bombing states:

Quote :

"The earliest and most compelling challenge to the lone bomb/lone bomber theory came from Brigadier General Benton K. Partin (USAF, Retired), an expert with sterling credentials and a distinguished military career. On May 18, 1995, one month after the bombing, General Partin delivered a preliminary detailed analysis of the event to members of Congress. "From all the evidence I have seen in the published material," Partin testified, " I can say with a high level of confidence that the damage pattern on the reinforced concrete superstructure could not possibly have been attained from the single truck bomb without supplementing demolition charges at some of the reinforced column bases.""

A couple of things about Partin:

-He graduated from NCSU in 1949.
-He retired from the Air Force in 1978. I find it hard to believe that, nearly 20 years after retirement, he was being used by the goevernment as an explosives expert.
-His "preliminary detailed analysis of the event to members of Congress" was in fact an unsolicited letter he wrote to members of Congress. He did not testify before Congress. The letter pleaded for an independent inspection of the building before its destruction.
-As admitted in his letter, Partin's analysis is based on published reports. He was not privy to any information other than what was in the media. He never personally inspected the damage. Without hands-on inspection or access to evidence he can offer nothing more than conjecture, no matter his qualifications.

http://www.af.mil/bios/bio_print.asp?bioID=6688&page=1
http://www.generalpartin.org/redflags.htm

The article goes on to cite Samuel Cohen:

Quote :

"Renowned physicist Samuel Cohen, the inventor of the "neutron bomb," is one of them..."I believe that demolition charges in the building placed inside at certain key concrete columns did the primary damage to the Murrah Federal Building," Cohen stated in June 1995. "It would have been absolutely impossible and against the laws of nature for a truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil — no matter how much was used — to bring the building down." Contacted this year shortly after the third anniversary of the bombing, Dr. Cohen said he was even more convinced of the truth of that statement. "I have not been following the case closely," he told THE NEW AMERICAN, "but it seems to me that the evidence has gotten much stronger in favor of internal charges, while the ammonium nitrate bomb theory has fallen apart.""

A couple of things about Cohen:

-His scientific work at Los Alamos seems to have consisted mostly of number crunching.
-Apparently, he claims to have been awarded a peace medal by the Pope for inventing the neutron bomb. There's absolutely NO WAY the Pope would award a medal to someone for inventing a bomb.
-He also claims to have influenced Reagan with regards to the neutron bomb in 1978.
-There seem to be questions about the validitiy of some of Cohen's other claims, e.g. Red Mercury.
-Like Partin, he doesn't seem to have had any special access to information regarding the OKC bombing.

http://www.manuelsweb.com/sam_cohen.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Cohen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_mercury

Also, 'eyewitness reports'...Eyewitness reports are notoriously inaccurate.

[Edited on August 15, 2005 at 2:55 PM. Reason : ]

8/15/2005 2:53:36 PM

"7/7 Bombers" movements Physically Impossible
http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/61251

Quote :

"CONCLUSION OF EXTENSIVE RESEARCH: On 7/7 it was physically impossible for the 'supposed' London bombers to be filmed at 7.22 am at Luton Station and also catch a train which arrived at Kings Cross prior to being filmed at 8 .26 am"

8/27/2005 1:06:55 AM

http://www.infowars.com/articles/London_attack/latest_footage_more_evidence_of_frame_up.htm

Quote :

"Latest footage of London Bomber: More evidence of a frame up Steve Watson | November 01 2005 One of the suicide bombers who attacked London on 7 July was filmed arguing with a cashier about being shortchanged hours before he blew himself up, The London Independent reported yesterday. A Metropolitan Police counter terrorist expert also told a seminar that the four terrorists - Mohammad Sidique Khan, 30, Shehzad Tanweer, 22, Germaine Lindsay, 19, and Hasib Hussain, 18, - did not fit the preconceived terrorist profile. The official told the seminar held in Preston, Lancashire two weeks ago: "This is not the behaviour of a terrorist - you'd think this is normal. "Tanweer also played a game of cricket the night before he traveled down to London - now are these the actions of someone who is going to blow themselves up the next day? "I've seen the CCTV footage of these people. They do not appear to be on their way to commit any crime at all. The Russell Square bomber [Hasib Hussain] is actually seen going into shops and bumping into people [prior to his attack]." The expert said. An image taken from closed-circuit TV footage shows Shehzad Tanweer (left) and Germaine Lindsay at King’s Cross Underground station in central London. These revelations are yet more evidence to suggest that the so called "suicide bombers" had little or no idea that they were going to die on 7/7."

11/1/2005 3:50:08 PM

YOU'D THINK THE GOVERNMENT WOULD BE SMART ENOUGH TO WEAR GLOVES

11/1/2005 3:59:58 PM

So does this "Metropolitan Police counter terrorist expert" have a name? Expert speakers usually like to be introduced when they speak at seminars.

I love that you claim to be open minded yet look at all issues from the same side.

11/1/2005 4:01:56 PM