Quote :

"The moment you started talking about heisman should be winners, we just skipped right over your posts. Stick to putting your cock between your legs MacGyver. "

I was just using you logic with stats. Since the Texas Tech QB has the best stats, he is the best QB/player and should win the Heisman with ease. It is an example to show how your little "stat theories" don't mean as much as they should.

11/3/2005 4:43:25 PM

You're right, Vick should win the pro-football version of the Heisman.

Because just like Jason White, he's only good because of the system around him.

11/3/2005 4:46:04 PM

Quote :

"I was just using you logic with stats. Since the Texas Tech QB has the best stats, he is the best QB/player and should win the Heisman with ease. It is an example to show how your little "stat theories" don't mean as much as they should."

Im not even going to address something so stupid.

11/3/2005 4:49:35 PM

Well, one big difference is the Panthers OL wasn't depleted due to injuries, they just sucked due to bad off-season moves. Second, Panthers lost one WR, not 2. Plus, let's make this point really clear, the Panther's run came against one of the weakest halves of a schedule I've ever seen. If they were really the solid team the analyst were making them out to be, they would have beaten the Saints at home and made it into the playoffs.

Now I'm a big Panthers fan, and we were in the same boat, but they have MORE injuries and have a harder schedule than the Panthers had.

And no it's not that clear cut, but you're right, I think Leinart shouldn't be number 1, I'd put Reggie Bush and Vince Young over him. And get this, Vince Young rushes for 200 yards a game, but ALSO passes for 200 yards a game. Now if Vick could do THAT, then I would consider him one of the top QB's in the league if not THE top QB in the league. Hence the reason you can't compare the two and when looking at Heisman candidates you have to take into consideration strength of schedule.

11/3/2005 5:00:03 PM

If Vick did start throwing more, and had better passing stats, then you would say he still isnt good because he throws it all the time and his receivers make the catches. There is no way you guys are going to ever admit you are wrong. Atleast Vick has the one stat that actually matters....he leads his team to wins. And thats the only thing any QB cares about.


^So, why should Vick pass when he can win games just fine by not passing?

[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 5:08 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2005 5:08:05 PM

Quote :

"If Vick did start throwing more, and had better passing stats, then you would say he still isnt good because he throws it all the time and his receivers make the catches. There is no way you guys are going to ever admit you are wrong. "

The fuck are you on?

If Vick could throw well, he'd definitely be one of the top players in the league. Without question.

[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 5:17 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2005 5:16:55 PM

Quote :

"^So, why should Vick pass when he can win games just fine by not passing?"

11/3/2005 5:20:21 PM

good point

he can always TUCK and run

this is all starting to come together

11/3/2005 5:21:28 PM

Because eventually someone will stop the run and he'll have to pass, and when he does he'll fall flat on his face and they'll lose, that's why.

11/3/2005 5:22:35 PM

haha, really man. The tucking shit is one of the worst trolling attmpts ever. I took the pic of me doing that, and posted it on here under the name TheTuck, and you think I care if you bring it up. Jesus Christ, thats worse than the played out dead father jokes.

^3 years now and people are still having trouble stopping it. He prevails more than they do preventing him from running.

[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 5:24 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2005 5:22:48 PM

TUCK AND RUN

11/3/2005 5:25:03 PM

Quote :

"If Vick did start throwing more, and had better passing stats, then you would say he still isnt good because he throws it all the time and his receivers make the catches."

actually, with the WRs they have, if Vick put up even respectable passing numbers, I'd be more inclined to say that he's an elite QB


but the QB whose numbers closest resembled Vick's 2004 stats... Kyle Boller

11/3/2005 5:26:06 PM

Hell, I'll even post it for you.

11/3/2005 5:26:20 PM

Quote :

"actually, with the WRs they have, if Vick put up even respectable passing numbers, I'd be more inclined to say that he's an elite QB"

So you admit his WRs are not good. Thank you. So get off his nuts about sucking at passing. And nobody has answered me yet. WHY SHOULD HE PASS MORE WHEN HE DOES JUST FINE RUNNING?

11/3/2005 5:27:39 PM

I thought we already established the fact that Vick isn't winning games, its the running game and defense that are winning them.

Now Vick is an above-average QB in the NFL and any team would love to have him (except for the Chargers who took LT instead and got Drew Brees later in the draft>>>Looks like they got the better deal). But that is no reason to compare him to Brett Favre who is one of the Top 5 QBs in League History.

If he didn't have the 5-INT game, what the fuck would you guys be talking about? Not a damn thing.

Quote :

"and thats partially because i do know more than basically everyone. "

rallydurham you may know more about the game in general, but I doubt you know as much about the Green Bay Packers as I do.

11/3/2005 5:28:26 PM

Quote :

"I thought we already established the fact that Vick isn't winning games, its the running game"

Vick is part of their running game.

And I know Favre WAS better than Vick, and will prolly end up with the better career, but this year and on, Vick is the better QB.

Oh, and Big Ben is out with an injury. Therefore, he isn't a great QB becaues he can get hurt.

[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 5:32 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2005 5:31:39 PM

Quote :

"So you admit his WRs are not good. Thank you. So get off his nuts about sucking at passing. And nobody has answered me yet. WHY SHOULD HE PASS MORE WHEN HE DOES JUST FINE RUNNING?"

1) Yes, they are godawful
2) You're welcome
3) If he does just fine running... why isn't he a running back?



All I'm saying is... I don't think it's fair to the rest of the Falcons players when Vick is over-credited. It seems like everyone, from the ESPN reporters all the way down to us TWW posters, hold Vick responsible for the win and Vick's replacement responsible for the loss. More credit needs to go to Dunn (certainly this year if not last year also), and a ton of credit needs to go to Atlanta's defense. Looking at last year's results, they only got into one shootout (41-28 vs Denver) out of 11 wins; they only NEEDED to score more than 20 points for 3 other victories.


Now for the flipside of the argument (about Favre), this year is a horrible barometer for Favre's success and ability as a quarterback. He's still an amazing talent who has to do way too much with way too little, and keeps getting the short end of the stick because of it. Having said that, I think Favre would do better as a QB with Atlanta's WRs than Vick currently does. That's something Favre has done his entire career: Make his WRs (look) better than they were before working with him. Vick will likely never possess this trait and hence have to depend on alternate means of success (ie, running a lot).

In the end, I think this argument is absolute mularkey, and who's better than who ultimately depends on what kind of offensive scheme you want to run. Air it out 40 times a game to somewhat open up the run? I'd take Favre. Ball control offense? I'd take Vick.

They've both been winners at their prime and that's what matters most

11/3/2005 5:40:01 PM

^^But actually last year Big Ben was the BEST QB in the game because of his record, it had nothing to do with his D, the RB's, or the OL.

[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 5:40 PM. Reason : ^^]

[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 5:41 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2005 5:40:35 PM

Can I vote for LT as a better QB than Vick?

11/3/2005 5:43:10 PM

Quote :

"Can I vote for LT as a better QB than Vick?"

Yes you can, haha.

11/3/2005 5:48:44 PM

He's definitely more accurate than Vick. And a better runner.

[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 5:50 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2005 5:50:16 PM

hey stein, the packers will not win 7 games this year, wanna lay a bet down on it?

11/3/2005 11:43:10 PM

If they do win 7, they'll probably win the division as shitty as it is

11/3/2005 11:50:36 PM

Quote :

"hey stein, the packers will not win 7 games this year, wanna lay a bet down on it?"

No thanks.

Too busy hoping for Reggie Bush.

11/4/2005 1:19:07 AM

man this thread is still going

11/4/2005 1:19:57 AM

^that helps

11/4/2005 1:25:46 AM

lol, Did you see the bit on sportscenter on TO and his comments on Favre?

I guess the most dominating reciever in the game doesnt know shit about football either


ps irvin must not know shit either



but then again, neither are as qualified to make football comments as RD and macguyver

[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 2:17 AM. Reason : .]

11/4/2005 2:15:36 AM

Quote :

"who cares about superbowls if you have good stats?"

as usuall you add nothing to the conversation and just fail at trolling. If you can read, which with you is suspect, it has been pointed out multiple times that teams, and not quarterbacks, win games. Making my own NFL team there is no way I would pass manning up for the starting QB spot.

Quote :

"You guys just love to hate him. And you cant use common sense when realizing how good he is."

Quote :

"I mean I like the guy, dont have a problem with him. if he wins the superbowl great. I still wouldnt take him over a few other QBs. "

11/4/2005 8:31:45 AM

I really wish TO would come to the Falcons to give Vick a true #1 receiver and let the world show he can actually pass when he has someone to throw to.

11/5/2005 1:02:14 AM

Too bad TO likes Favre.

[Edited on November 5, 2005 at 2:12 AM. Reason : forgot an O]

11/5/2005 2:12:12 AM

Vick isn't looking bad against the Dolphins

21/28, 226 yds, 1/0

11/6/2005 3:26:01 PM

anyone watch the vt game, marcus looked just like mike with his accuracy

11/6/2005 3:30:05 PM

is marcus a dirty lefty as well?

11/6/2005 3:31:03 PM

nah, marcus is a proto

11/6/2005 3:31:23 PM

Looks like the almighty Favre contriubuted to another loss for his failing Packers. In other news, Vick threw for over 200yds , 1 TD, and no INTs to lead his Falcons to 6-2.

11/6/2005 7:02:47 PM

Vick was on the money today. Against a solid defense, no less. I really hope the Falcons can pick up a #1 receiver soon. I don't see the Falcons winning the Super Bowl with Finneran as the #1 receiver.

By the way, Peerless Price is tearing it up in Dallas. The #5 receiver has three catches on the year for about 25 yards.

^Cool, you know Holly?

11/7/2005 6:52:40 AM

I would just like to give favre and all his followers the props they deserve after this weekend. He surely is doing a hell of a job this year

11/7/2005 10:04:12 AM

^^Yes, I do.

11/8/2005 10:49:57 AM

Where are all the Vick haters? I guess its hard to talk shit when he has a great weekend and leads his team to ANOTHER victory.

11/8/2005 1:19:03 PM

hahahaha

he finally has one good throwing game all season.


plz to see previously mentioned qbs that have been having equal or better games all season

thx

11/8/2005 1:23:52 PM

If by better games you mean wins, then only Manning is the QB you can say about that. Like they said on PTI yesterday, Vick leads his team to victories. And thats all that matters, winning. Fuck stats.

11/8/2005 1:41:31 PM

oh so now he leads his team to victory

last week you said he was winning games all by himself

11/8/2005 4:04:08 PM

I'd still take Favre over Vick

11/8/2005 4:13:37 PM

I love his comments after the game:

Quote :

"People say I can’t throw the ball from the pocket. I’m not trying to prove anything to the world because I know what I can do… I feel like I answered [the question] today, and I don’t ever want to hear it again."

"Hey, remember that one day playing basketball that I made every shot I took? That means that I can do it every day, and you're a bastard if you say I can't."

11/8/2005 4:16:33 PM

Terrell Owens approves of this thread

but I see 1-7 vs. 6-2...if I'm Atlanta I do not make a QB change

11/8/2005 4:23:41 PM

bttt for tomorrow

11/13/2005 1:41:07 AM

Quote :

"Memo to Michael Vick: 228 passing yards, one TD and three second-half points is not a sign that you're the second coming of Dan Marino."

11/13/2005 2:54:28 AM

Quote :

"I’m not trying to prove anything to the world because I know what I can do… I feel like I answered [the question] today, and I don’t ever want to hear it again."

so he thnks he proved that he can be a pocket passer, but he isn't trying to prove anything

11/13/2005 4:55:41 AM

No one cares what you think. Your opinion in this forum ceased to carry any weight many, many posts ago.

11/13/2005 5:08:06 AM

for the record, I am very anti-Vick, I hate the guy and I think he is overrated. However, I would definitely take Vick over Favre. The asshats in Sports Talk have caused me to take delight in Favre's weekly game-losing efforts.

11/13/2005 10:42:42 AM