Quote :

"pwrstrkdf250: it's funny how some of you faggots are selective over which rights the government can and cannot infringe upon personally I don't think they should fuck with ANY of our rights"

Could you expand on that? What other rights are you referring to? The "right" for businesses to do whatever they want without censure from the government? The "right" for homeowners to own bazookas?

The right to privacy is pretty basic, by the way. Inalienable, if you will.

[Edited on May 12, 2006 at 6:10 PM. Reason : sss]

5/12/2006 6:09:30 PM

he likes guns and doesnt want the man to take them away from him

[Edited on May 12, 2006 at 6:10 PM. Reason : which apparently someone is actively trying to do]

5/12/2006 6:10:14 PM

As far as guns go, I was laughed at by an entire class for my interpretation of the second ammendment:

Quote :

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I believe our founding fathers had the foresight to recognize the potential for tyranny in our government. Yes, our government was arranged with such delicate precision and care to the point that there's almost a guarantee against tyranny, but just in case, we have the second ammendment. We have the right to bear arms so that, if need be, we can protect ourselves against the government and eventually restore it to its original condition.

5/12/2006 6:20:30 PM

and you are correct bridget


and yeah... apparently I'm a toothless yokel because I don't want my gun rights infringed upon... because there hasn't been all sorts of legislation in the past to limit me in what I can own


nor do I want american citizens rights infringed upon when it comes to phone calls and such also

5/12/2006 6:28:18 PM

i like the second amendment. it backs up the first.

that said, im pretty damn sure it doesnt mean you can own a bazooka or a tank.

theres nothing wrong with some common sense gun laws. background checks are sane. a 3 day waiting period is sane. ban on automatic weapons is sane. trigger locks are sane.

and sorry, but i dont buy the paranoid NRA "slippery slope" arguments. if the jackbooted federal thugs and their black helicopters are coming after you, then all the automatic rifles and armor-piercing rounds wont help you. they'll just do a Waco or Ruby Ridge on you, and you wont be able to do shit about it.

5/12/2006 7:46:10 PM

Yeah, I just now realized that I didn't spell amendment properly, and amendment is basic so I think I'm gonna stop posting.

5/12/2006 11:53:32 PM

Quote :

"and sorry, but i dont buy the paranoid NRA "slippery slope" arguments. if the jackbooted federal thugs and their black helicopters are coming after you, then all the automatic rifles and armor-piercing rounds wont help you. they'll just do a Waco or Ruby Ridge on you, and you wont be able to do shit about it"

yeah... just like it doesn't matter if they tap your phone calls because you aren't doing anything illegal anyways right?

[Edited on May 13, 2006 at 12:29 AM. Reason : selective rights are bullshit]

5/13/2006 12:28:55 AM

Quote :

"and sorry, but i dont buy the paranoid NRA "slippery slope" arguments. if the jackbooted federal thugs and their black helicopters are coming after you, then all the automatic rifles and armor-piercing rounds wont help you. they'll just do a Waco or Ruby Ridge on you, and you wont be able to do shit about it. "

And you apparently have no fucking clue about either case. Ruby Ridge, the goddam feds trumped up up the weapons charges against Randy Weaver and then surveyed his residence to the point to where they knew his daughter's menstural cycle as well as everything else about his personal life, then sent in some stumblefuck agents to assasinate his son, and then his wife while she was holding their baby in her arms while standing in the doorway of thier house unarmed. After these murders, the seige ended peacefully with Randy comiong out of the house peacefully, going to court, being acquitted of all charges, and being paid $3 million-ish by the feds to shut the fuck up about the whole situation. It didn't work. Randy Weaver tours the country to this day, going to gun shows, promoting the 2 books he has written about the experiences he endured concerning the murder of his family at the hands of the motherfucking federal government which takes 28% of your paycheck to this day. The impact of which has mainly only been on the more enlightened and sensitized choir he preaches to, consisting of the "gun culture" of America which remains deeply concerned about our second amendment rights, and not really anyone else.

Anyways, several months later at Waco, the feds had learned their lesson. And that lesson was: Dont let any of the witnesses out alive, and paint the ones that got any attention as pedophiles, no matter if you cant prove a fucking thing about those allegations and they are completely unfounded. Oh yea, that's right, they're dead now and dont have their day in court as "innocent until proven guilty"....


Anyways, all of the gun laws, from NFA34 (all you liberal fucks who dont know what that is can google it and read up on it) to GCA68 (again, google and learn) to the bullshit waiting periods, magazine capacity restrictions, paperwork, and registration bullshit (which is merely a prelude to confiscation) are meant to erode our second amendment rights to the point to where they no longer exist. It simply wouldnt work to take all guns away at once. However, if you put a frog in hot water, he'll jump out immediately. If you put him in room-temperature water, and then slowly boil it, he'll happily swim around until dead. Apply that same principal to the usurping of our rights and you'll have something worth thinking long and hard about.

5/13/2006 1:02:58 AM

Also, edomites.

5/13/2006 1:45:05 AM

I'm still puzzled as to what the big deal is. If the phone companies (or NSA) were recording every conversation between each party, I can see a major right infringement. But just documenting what number is calling what number? Are we afraid that this is going to slip into something far worse, such as illegal search and seizures? Is this just more ammo against this administration? I personally don't see a problem with this. The phone company has been doing this to me since I've owned my cell phone, and I have never had a problem with it. Although if you are going to get mad at someone for it, I agree with woodfoot, don't have a double standard about it.

5/13/2006 2:09:07 AM

i think it's the idea that the gov't is looking to see who you call. and then based on who that is, they might start giving you a hard time because of it. i personally don't like the idea of making it easier for the gov't to put me on a watch list. especially if it's based on something that i had every reason to believe was private.

not to mention, these records, once passed around, could potentially be used to damage someone's credibility or for blackmail.

basically it's an invasion of privacy and is not what customers believed they were signing up for when they paid for phone service through these companies. if the companies had informed their customers in this change in their privacy standards, then i'd be much more ok with it.

5/13/2006 3:57:02 AM

Quote :

"eah... just like it doesn't matter if they tap your phone calls because you aren't doing anything illegal anyways right? "

no sorry. not the same.

the NSA is collecting your call records for analysis, which will help them ferret out suspected terrorists.

the NSA already admits to warrantless wiretaps of americans who are suspected of terrorist connections.

therefore, depending on the accuracy or inaccuracy of their algorithms, anyone can be suspected of terrorism

and we all really trust the government to get shit right before acting on terrorist threats. Senator Edward Kennedy and the 18 month old toddler stopped by TSA airport security is... what? evidence of their um.. thouroughness??

excuse me if i dont feel that a 3-day waiting period to buy a registered firearm rises to this level of privacy invasion. the 2nd amendment does not describe your right to access to unregulated weapons. the 4th amendment does describe your right to privacy of personal effects.

5/13/2006 5:35:51 AM

and without the 2nd amendment, the others are useless

5/13/2006 8:08:43 AM

the NSA did not gather these numbers
they are provided to them by your telephone company

this would be like me buying a can of peas
and then you fuckers are like "you must have worked hard in the field to grow those peas"

5/13/2006 12:17:14 PM

Anyone in favor of this should mail their credit card statement to the NSA every month since they're such a law-abiding american with nothing to hide.

5/13/2006 1:49:36 PM

it'd be fucking retarded to do that
a better suggestion would be

"anyone in favor of this let MBNA send your credit card records to the NSA"

some of you still don't fucking get it

5/13/2006 1:59:52 PM

well, considering that it is illegal for phone companies to give out the information they gave out, I'd say it's pretty fucked up all the way around...

5/13/2006 3:36:05 PM

Bush defense:

democrats dont want to wiretap terrorists

5/13/2006 6:23:32 PM

Quote :

"the NSA did not gather these numbers"

okay, whatever.

they told the phone companies to give them up.

Qwest, who was the only one with the balls and/or integrity to refuse, was sent repeated requests. each time they asked "where's the warrant?". and each time the NSA declined to provide one, but kept coming back with the same request.

almost sounds like harassment/coercement.

so lets get hung up on the semantics of "the NSA is collecting your phone records"

5/13/2006 6:29:17 PM

the NSA did collect them, they installed some hardware

5/13/2006 6:40:13 PM

^ thats true. people reported an entire room at AT&T filled with detection equipment installed by NSA.

anyhow it doesnt matter *how* the NSA came to possess millions and millions of individual call records, the point is: they *have* them. because they are *collecting* them.

5/13/2006 6:47:12 PM

i'm not defending the nsa

but again

to say that they HAXXORED THE AMERICAN PUBLICZ GIBSON is not looking at the full picture here

do not just make the general "OMG ESTABLISHMENT BAD" play here and overlook the fact that THE PEOPLE YOU PAY FOR PHONE SERVICE SOLD YOU OUT TO THE GOV'T

this is capitalism and gov't working together to fuck us all over

5/13/2006 7:02:37 PM

honestly i could care less if a democrat or republican is in office

doesnt really effect the way i live MY life

can still go fishing, buy gas, buy a gun if i wanted, etc

cant stand hardcore republicans that think people are trying to take their guns, and i cant stand liberals that act like everything republicans do is wrong

5/13/2006 7:38:44 PM

^Are you sure you're posting in the right thread?

5/13/2006 7:46:22 PM

does it matter?

5/13/2006 7:57:23 PM

does it matter if it matters?

5/13/2006 8:20:05 PM

i think he is

5/13/2006 8:33:09 PM

^^hahaha gg

5/13/2006 8:39:27 PM

hahah see thats what trips me out, people think just because you don't want the government taking your firearms that you are a hard core right winger


and yeah... woodfoot is right, it has more to do with the fucking cell phone companies caving in and giving customer information

5/13/2006 9:48:31 PM

So sometbody told me that SAS wrote the software that runs this operation. Has anybody else heard this?

5/13/2006 10:05:13 PM

Quest Refused the NSA.

I wish I could hear how that conversation went. "What do you mean 'no'?"

5/13/2006 11:11:07 PM

you'll notice that the guy who was in charge when they said "no" is now in some seirous legal trouble...

5/13/2006 11:57:57 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/15/news/companies/bellsouth.reut/index.htm

Bellsouth claims they haven't given this information to anybody and haven't been contacted by the NSA at all.

5/16/2006 12:18:03 PM

Greg -- I'm curious as to why you think the 2nd amendment is important to defending our other rights.

Maybe this was true many, many years ago, but what do you think you can do with your rifle and/or shotgun? Defend your home against the big bad government? You wouldn't stand a chance against the most technologically advanced military in the world.

The 2nd amendment is more important for people who hunt, and people who want to be able to defend themselves versus a criminal in a hostile situation. Not to say the 2nd amendment isn't important and shouldn't be protected, but come on man -- you ain't gonna do shit when it comes to the goverment/military. Can we drop that point?

5/16/2006 12:43:48 PM

You want the king of England to come in and start bossing you around?

5/16/2006 12:50:27 PM

Nobody shall take my musket!

5/16/2006 12:52:58 PM

he's got two trigger fingers

he doesnt need logic

5/16/2006 1:05:21 PM

Quote :

"Greg -- I'm curious as to why you think the 2nd amendment is important to defending our other rights. Maybe this was true many, many years ago, but what do you think you can do with your rifle and/or shotgun? Defend your home against the big bad government? You wouldn't stand a chance against the most technologically advanced military in the world."

I dunno, dude...I've always imagined parts of the military disbanding and taking up against the government. If our federal government were to degrade into fascism or whatever, I think at least the Marines would ultimately be cowboy enough to eventually put their feet down and do the right thing. And every gun counts.

Am I crazy?

[Edited on May 16, 2006 at 1:57 PM. Reason : Crazy, stupid, or thoughtless?]

5/16/2006 1:54:05 PM

Soldiers are too brainwashed, they'd never do shit.

5/16/2006 6:10:15 PM

Quote :

"I've always imagined parts of the military disbanding and taking up against the government"

will never happen. unless some really high ranking officers organized a coup. i dont think you want that to happen.

Quote :

" think at least the Marines would ultimately be cowboy enough to eventually put their feet down and do the right thing."

the marines would be the last to do such a thing. they are the most "brainwashed" of them all.

brainwashed in the sense that they're the most ingrained into the heirarchical mentality of "you do what your told to do, because youre told to do it"

5/16/2006 9:53:41 PM

THEN WHEN DO I GET TO SHOOT PEOPLE?!?!?

5/16/2006 10:07:18 PM

No time like the present, I always say.

5/16/2006 10:13:18 PM

Has anyone read this thread?

They talk about datalogging average americans and people are like "oh well. Democrats will do it too!!"

Fuck you guys.

Fat lot of good all your guns are doing you.

5/16/2006 10:43:38 PM

Repost for SandSanta:

Obviously people are not more outraged because they're either:
1. too busy paying the bills to pay attention
2. stupid and think this improves security
3. apathetic
4. thoughtless and short-sighted

Here is a quote that illustrates option four:

Quote :

"pwrstrkdf250: but I'm not too worried about someone fucking with me because I say that I want to buy an 1/8 of pot over my cell or over the internet"

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=408189

This isn't about us and our present. This is about the future, about what the world will be like for our children's children's children's etc...

This is a slippery slope we're on, and too many people seem content to throw their hands up and enjoy the ride because it "doesn't affect them."

THINK, PEOPLE, THINK!

5/16/2006 11:01:41 PM

verizon supposedly said they didnt give out records either.......

5/16/2006 11:58:53 PM

Quote :

"This is about the future, about what the world will be like for our children's children's children's etc..."

thats kind of cliche, dont you think? i mean who really cares about their children's children's children?

do you know your great-grandmother or great-grandfather? do you think they spend their days worrying about your generation, and how their generation failed you?

you've got a hard enough job just giving a shit for yourself, right here and now. and sure, think about your children, if you have or are gonna have any.

5/17/2006 1:02:51 AM

Quote :

"do not just make the general "OMG ESTABLISHMENT BAD" play here and overlook the fact that THE PEOPLE YOU PAY FOR PHONE SERVICE SOLD YOU OUT TO THE GOV'T this is capitalism and gov't working together to fuck us all over "

im not sure its a capitalism issue. in a "purely" capitalist system, the phone companies would tell the govt. to fuck off, i would think.

i see it as an orwellian/fascist issue. our govt has defined its war, and everything along with it in black and white. you either support any and all govt. efforts, or you're aiding the enemy.

I do find it interesting that the then-CEO of Qwest, after repeatedly refusing the NSA, has found himself the target of a federal indictment on insider trading.

5/17/2006 1:11:23 AM

Quote :

"thats kind of cliche, dont you think?"

Yes, it is cliche.

Quote :

"i mean who really cares about their children's children's children?"

I do.

Quote :

"do you know your great-grandmother or great-grandfather? do you think they spend their days worrying about your generation, and how their generation failed you? you've got a hard enough job just giving a shit for yourself, right here and now. and sure, think about your children, if you have or are gonna have any."

BLAH BLAH BLAH. We obviously have different values. I change my opinions all the time, but my values rarely change.

5/17/2006 1:12:06 AM

Quote :

"I think at least the Marines would ultimately be cowboy enough to eventually put their feet down and do the right thing."

in a sea of dumb assumptions

that is the great white whale

5/17/2006 1:15:44 AM

Crazy, stupid, or thoughtless?

One vote from Woodfoot for stupid.

5/17/2006 1:22:22 AM