Quote :

"On that note, would it be wrong if I posted nudes on our wedding site?"

nope. Please do and post the link here.

2/22/2007 1:57:25 PM

seconded

2/22/2007 2:16:41 PM

THIRDEDED

2/22/2007 2:18:52 PM

2/22/2007 2:41:41 PM

LOOK HOW BIG THAT PS2 IS!!!11

2/22/2007 2:45:26 PM

less talk more nudes

2/22/2007 2:46:21 PM

what is a "morman"? is it better to date a "lesserman"?

2/22/2007 3:04:01 PM

Actually...the girl I could actually see myself marrying was the Mormon girl i got involved with over 2 summers ago. She lives in Utah, but I fucked things up with her by fucking her other mormon friend

2/22/2007 3:10:29 PM

Sounds like a solid foundation for an eternal relationship.

2/22/2007 3:30:38 PM

Quote :

" donny, as much as I like you, you probably don't know many Catholics or for that matter some of the people you do know have bigger problems/issues than their religion put on them "

thanks for being nice - i know a ton of catholics (i go to a private christian school dude). Yes, most of them have bigger problems/issues, but those issues and problems are usually obfuscated by their Catholic beliefs.

i'm not saying there aren't any good catholics, there's a ton of them... but from personal experience with many in my life, most of them are pretty screwed up in alot of ways.

2/22/2007 4:17:49 PM

im catholic.

2/22/2007 4:19:08 PM

one of the best!

[Edited on February 22, 2007 at 4:20 PM. Reason : and not to say there's not a lot of fucked up protestants... because they're a dime a dozen too.]

2/22/2007 4:19:42 PM

im catholic

2/22/2007 4:22:29 PM

aaaand, not the best.

2/22/2007 4:23:42 PM

i know i know

2/22/2007 4:28:56 PM

i'm just playin

2/22/2007 4:29:20 PM

interesting:

* Mormonism includes many other unusual doctrines which you will probably not be told about until you have been in the church for a long time. These doctrines are not revealed to investigators or new converts because those people are not yet considered ready to have more than "milk" as doctrine. The Mormons also probably realize that if investigators knew of these unusual teachings they would not join the church. In addition to those mentioned elsewhere in this article, the following are noteworthy: NOTES

o God was once a man like us.
o God has a tangible body of flesh and bone.
o God lives on a planet near the star Kolob.
o God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.
o We can become like God and rule over our own universe.
o There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.
o Jesus and Satan ("Lucifer") are brothers, and they are our brothers - we are all spirit children of Heavenly Father
o Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.
o We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.
o "God" ("Jehovah") in the Old Testament is the being named Jesus in the New Testament.
o In the the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife.
o Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life.
o Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.
o The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere.

http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

2/22/2007 5:22:25 PM

ask me any quesitons you like about mormonism. I'll give straight answers.

and robster. have you attended the temple? How do you not know the phrase "come let us go down together"

2/22/2007 5:51:50 PM

I'm surprised you let it get that far without making sure your religious beliefs/non-beliefs were compatible. If I find out a girl has religious beliefs, its like finding out she has ebola.

2/22/2007 7:13:15 PM

Haha! You've got religion!

[Edited on February 22, 2007 at 7:42 PM. Reason : ?]

2/22/2007 7:38:11 PM

these two guys, last name young, don't approve of this thread.

[Edited on February 22, 2007 at 7:42 PM. Reason : ]

2/22/2007 7:41:39 PM

morman




woahhhhhhhhhhhhh man

2/22/2007 8:52:18 PM

This is robster's wife again and i've only browsed the comments since yesterday's posting, but I would like to make a serious invitation to anyone and everyone who is genuinely interested in this topic of conversation espcicially mr. skankinande. I would like to invite you to dinner and conversation at my house. We live off western and if anyone truely has questions or wants to discuss this topic without all the mud slinging then i would love to have you in my home. My email is amberogarek@yahoo.com

2/22/2007 9:37:04 PM

Quote :

"Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned."

Michale Jackson must be "sufficiently righteous."

2/22/2007 9:44:31 PM

My wife ... Gotta love her naive invitation. I tried to warn her that TWW is a place where no one really cares, they just like to talk.


Anyhow... To the above notes:

These are the ones that have at least a little truth to them:

o God has a tangible body of flesh and bone.(Not blood)
o God lives on a planet near the star Kolob.(I guess ...)
o We can become like God and rule over our own universe.(Eternal Progression is a principle we believe in, thus this is an interpolation of that principle -- Not doctrine)
o There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.(Once again, if the above is true, then this is an extension of that interpolation -- Not doctrine)
o Jesus and Satan ("Lucifer") are brothers, and they are our brothers - we are all spirit children of Heavenly Father (brothers as spirits, yes we believe this)
o "God" ("Jehovah") in the Old Testament is the being named Jesus in the New Testament.(Yes -- So does every religion who believes that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are 1 God)

These following are things we DO NOT BELIEVE:

o God was once a man like us. (No Doctrine that says this)
o God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.(Definately dont believe this)
o Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.(As JBTILLEY mentioned earlier, we definately do not believe this)
o We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.(Thats crazy ... we dont believe that)
o In the the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife.(Nope, dont believe this at all)
o Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life(whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life.(The "position, opportunities" we have in this life have nothing to do with our life as spirits ... This is 100% untrue - WE dont believe this)
o Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.(Become light skinned ... Where did you get this cracked up info ... We definately dont believe this)
o The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere.(I know of no Doctrine that says this. Not our belief)

You have to realize, people in many religions make up their own branches of what they believe. This second section of items are things that are NOT Mormon Doctrine.... I just wanted to clear that up.

The same people on this board write the same misconceptions over and over... I dont know why I bother anymore... Guess the wifey sucked me in to it.

2/22/2007 9:59:37 PM

[Edited on February 22, 2007 at 10:03 PM. Reason : meh, fuck it. im sure nutsmackr will take care of it]

2/22/2007 10:02:30 PM

Quote :

" My wife ... Gotta love her naive invitation. I tried to warn her that TWW is a place where no one really cares, they just like to talk. "

It depends what kind of dinner you're talking about

2/22/2007 10:16:38 PM

^^^you obviously don't know much of the history behind your religion...

i can find documentation for almost all of those things that you said you guys don't believe, straight out of people like brigham young's and joseph smith's mouths

i'll post them later tonight when i get around to it...

[Edited on February 22, 2007 at 10:17 PM. Reason : /]

2/22/2007 10:17:20 PM

^ Just because their historical leaders may have said it doesn't mean it's what they believe now.

There's lots of nutty stuff in the Bible that no one believes in any more.

2/22/2007 10:19:25 PM

No kidding ..

Find me something out of our scripture negating what I posted above...

And ones beliefs are not always determined by what a past leader may have said. A belief is something personal ... every protestant and catholic should be well aware of that

2/22/2007 11:40:27 PM

Quote :

"God lives on a planet near the star Kolob.(I guess ...)"

you guess? like, you think that maybe he does live near Kolob, but you're not really sure? You'll have to go ask the curch elders?

2/22/2007 11:43:25 PM

No .. just dont know where its referenced. Might be in scripture, might not...

Point is, we do believe that he "lives" which was in a previous bullet point... where is unknown, thats all I know.

2/22/2007 11:48:04 PM

Quote :

"These following are things we DO NOT BELIEVE: o God was once a man like us. (No Doctrine that says this)"

ORLY?

Joseph Smith, April 6 1844 'Journal of Discourses':

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man...If you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form...God came to be God...The Father of us all, dwelt on an earth...and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you-namely, by going from one small degree to another...from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power."

I would think that if the founder of Mormonism said it...it should be accepted as part of the faith...unless your prophet was a false prophet.

2/23/2007 3:05:17 AM

It's stuff like this that makes me glad I worship Thor.

2/23/2007 3:42:38 AM

Quote :

"Point is, we do believe that he "lives" which was in a previous bullet point... where is unknown, thats all I know."

well there's a big difference between "God Lives on some planet next to some random star" vs. "God lives in Heaven and also in my heart"

2/23/2007 4:38:25 AM

It would be cool if all ideas were accompanied a logical, axiomatic flow chart, tree diagram or whatever. Maybe we could even use laws and verbal language that is based on logical patterns. Didn't it piss you off when you were a little kid and there'd be an s after like ten plural words and then you'd say ass'es and the teacher would say nooo....?

2/23/2007 6:28:09 AM

Quote :

"^ Just because their historical leaders may have said it doesn't mean it's what they believe now."

I blame this on correlation. If you do not believe me, go and ask your gospel doctrine teacher or your bishop.

Quote :

"o God was once a man like us. (No Doctrine that says this)"

Man is as God once was and God is what man may become.

That little couplet that Lorenzo Snow preached. Likewise, it is in Mormon Doctrine by McConkie.

Quote :

"o God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.(Definately dont believe this)"

This one is true. Feminists at BYU were excommunicated for openly discussing Heavenly Mother and praying to her. They were told she was too sacred to be talked about in that manner.

Quote :

"o Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.(As JBTILLEY mentioned earlier, we definately do not believe this)"

Robster is correct here.

Quote :

"o We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.(Thats crazy ... we dont believe that)"

Read your McConkie. You are not supposed to have a personal relationship with Christ. Dew and Watson Nelson may teach this, but the member ship has been told to avoid personal relationship. Likewise, during prayer, the prayer is done to god by the name of christ. not to christ.

Quote :

"o In the the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife.(Nope, dont believe this at all)"

Yes that is true. The Celestial Kingdom is broken down into 3 degrees. the highest degree of the celestial kingdom requires plural marriage. Worry not though. supposedly you can get a plural marriage while in heaven so you can advance.

Quote :

"o Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life(whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life.(The "position, opportunities" we have in this life have nothing to do with our life as spirits ... This is 100% untrue - WE dont believe this)"

Not exactly true. The only real test was the war in heaven between satan and god. How valiant you were during that war affected your birth on this world.

Quote :

"o Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.(Become light skinned ... Where did you get this cracked up info ... We definately dont believe this)"

Read your Book of Mormon. It talks about White and Delightsome. Maybe your combination came out after the change, but my combination has that phrase in it. Dark skin has been taught from the begining to be a curse from god. the Lamanites and the blacks (seed of cain/ham). Likewise a dark skin person can become white and delightsome through the power of christ.

Quote :

"o The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere.(I know of no Doctrine that says this. Not our belief)"

Read the Pearl of Great Price. Why do you think hey have all that land in Jackson County Missouri. That is where New Jerusalem and the Garden of Eden were. Never heard this thing about Noah transporting the people to the Eastern Hemisphere though.
[/quote]



[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 7:20 AM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 7:14:18 AM

Quote :

"Read your McConkie. You are not supposed to have a personal relationship with Christ. Dew and Watson Nelson may teach this, but the member ship has been told to avoid personal relationship."

I'm membership and I've never been told not to have a personal relationship with the Savior. I guess you'll have to define what having a personal relationship with the Savior means to you. To me it means getting to know and understand him better through emulation.

Quote :

"the highest degree of the celestial kingdom requires plural marriage."

I never heard this. The highest degree of the celestial kingdom requires you be sealed/married in the temple. Official doctrine does not specify that you have to be married to more than one person, it simply states the requirement of temple marriage - which can be fulfilled by marrying one person.

2/23/2007 7:29:24 AM

Quote :

"I never heard this. The highest degree of the celestial kingdom requires you be sealed/married in the temple. Official doctrine does not specify that you have to be married to more than one person, it simply states the requirement of temple marriage - which can be fulfilled by marrying one person."

getting to the celestial kingdom requires a temple marriage. but you'll notice that there are three levels to the celestial kingdom. the highest level requires polygamy. This is one of the things that was drilled into me my entire life by the Church. It maybe different for you living in North Carolina. There are many teachings that are not emphasized anymore.

D&C 132 is very clear on this.

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 7:40 AM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 7:36:39 AM

Like D&C 131:1-2?

Quote :

"In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; "

I see no reference to polygamy.

2/23/2007 7:38:19 AM

Quote :

"I see no reference to polygamy."

that is why you need 132.

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 7:41 AM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 7:40:53 AM

Yeah, I know 132. And?

2/23/2007 7:44:32 AM

prep-e

Nope versions. Not manuscripts. Version being a different translations (which should have been what I said to be more accurate). At the time, according to statistics I found in an article at DH Hill (no longer have paper to reference), that's the number of different contextual versions available in the US currently in print. So technically there were a shitload more that are no longer in print.

The point I'm making is you (as a religious person who believes the bible to be a holy writ), cannot even agree with others religious sect what the original bible actually says in english. A great example is new born christians versus traditional souther baptists. Toss in creationists, mormons etc and everyone's interpretation of the bible is different.

So lets refresh.

You have a book, written by monks with second hand information (accuracy issue)
You have a book, that is then translated to english several different ways(language problem)
You have a book, that depending on what religious group you are in depends on what bible they want you to read (several bibles on't include huge portions of text. Old Testament for example)
You have a book, that is interpreted differently by almost everyone

So... you have a faith based on inaccurate interpretation, based on a biased selection of bible versions, based on often inaccurate translation, based of of second hand information written by a monk.

Hoo boy... yup... I must be crazy for not following a Religion.

Regardless of the fact, I state again, that I am not blasting those who follow the religion for following it. Just for following it blindly. Again, that's like using Star Magazine as a truth.

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 8:04 AM. Reason : I'm going to hell for mispellin]

2/23/2007 8:03:29 AM

the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

I'm telling you that this is information that has been taught by the church since 132 came into existance. But it might be the whole milk before meat thing in your case.

2/23/2007 8:04:33 AM

Dude, I dont know what little polygamist splinter group (like those down in arizona, southern utah, colorado) you grew up in, but many of the things you are saying are not beliefs of the real LDS church.

Of course there are those womanizing groups living in the deserts that teach some of that crap, but that is not my beliefs, and its not doctrine as far as Im concerned.

The celestial kingdom (highest of the 3) has only 1 ordinance that is required. Baptism.

The Highest degree of the 3 in the celestial kingdom has only 2 required ordinances. 1st is Baptism, second is Marriage in the temple.

Thats as simple as it gets, and there is no belief of polygamy in the eternities as being required for anything.

2/23/2007 8:45:57 AM

I grew up a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The fact of the matter is, the anti-polygamy manifesto only refers to it being abolished for the time being and that it is still a key component of the mormon faith. I'm sorry that you have not read the teachings of the prophets or have not read McConkie's Mormon Doctrine. It is there in black and white. It is unavoidable. And your dubious attempt at an ad hominem attack labeling me as a member of one of the fundamentalist sects is unappreciated. Ask you bishop, as any member of the church who has been a member for more than 20 years. It is there. I assure you. I learned all about it in Utah and other places where my family lived.

you are starting to sound like a bickertonite.

also, I'm doubting how much of a mormon you are since you didn't recognize some of the quotes form the temple video

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 9:07 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on February 23, 2007 at 9:09 AM. Reason : .]

2/23/2007 9:02:20 AM

Don't attack the bible using the translation issue. The Dead Sea scrolls sand blast all hope that the religious wierdos are wrong because of translation error.

2/23/2007 9:08:06 AM

I bring nothing to this thread than to say I have found it very interesting and I appreciate the seriousness that has been presented by this discussion.


Just wanted to say thanks guys for being candid.

plz continue

2/23/2007 9:16:03 AM

wait wait wait, so what school are you going to again? (some where in va right?)

2/23/2007 9:27:51 AM

here is a quote from Joseph F. Smith

"Some people have supposed that the doctrine of plural marriage was a sort of superfluity, or non-essential to the salvation or exaltation of mankind. In other words, some of the Saints have said, and believe, that a man with one wife, sealed to him by the authority of the Priesthood for time and eternity, will receive an exaltation as great and glorious, if he is faithful, as he possibly could with more than one. I want here to enter my solemn protest atgainst this idea, for I know it is false. There is no blessing promised except upon conditions, and no blessing can be obtained by mankind except by faithful compliance with the conditions, or law, upon which the same if promised. The marriage of one woman to a man for time and eternity by the sealing power, according to the law of God, is a fulfillment fo the celestial law of marriage in part--and is good so far as it goes--and so far as a man abides these conditions of the law, he will receive his reward therefor [sic], and this reward, or blessing, he could not obtain on any other grounds or conditions. But this is only the beginning of the law, not the whole of it." ~ Joseph F. Smith, Journal of Discourses, Volume 20, p.28, 1878

and we have all of htis

D&C 131: 1-4: In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; An in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

D&C 132: 3-4, 61-62: Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same. For behold, I reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory... And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood--if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else. And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

McConkie said, "Even those in the Celestial Kingdom, however, who do not go on to exaltation, will have immortality only and not eternal life... Salvation in its true and full meaning is synonymous with exaltation or eternal life and consists in gaining an inheritance in the highest of the three heavens within the Celestial Kingdom.... This full salvation is obtained in and through the continuation of the family unit in eternity and those who obtain it are gods" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).

Brigham Young said, "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned (Journal of Discourses, Vol. III, p. 266). He also said, "The only men who become Gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. XI, p. 269).

Oh, and then there's this little gem from Orson Pratt: http://www.ldshistory.net/pc/required.htm
Now, after having said so much in relation to the reason why we practice polygamy, I want to say a few words in regard to the revelation on polygamy. God has told us Latter-day Saints that we shall be condemned if we do not enter into that principle; and yet I have heard now and then (I am very glad to say that only a few such instances have come under my notice,) a brother or a sister say, "I am a Latter-day Saints, but I do not believe in polygamy." Oh, what an absurd expression! what an absurd idea! A person might as well say, "I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, but I do not believe in him." One is just as consistent as the other. Or a person might as well say, "I believe in Mormonism, and in the revelations given through Joseph Smith, but I am not a polygamist, and do not believe in polygamy." What an absurdity! If one portion of the doctrines of the Church is true, the whole of them are true. If the doctrine of polygamy, as revealed to the Latter-day Saints is not true, I would not give a fig for all your other revelations that came through Joseph Smith the Prophet; I would renounce the whole of them, because it is utterly impossible, according to the revelations that are contained in these books, to believe a part of them to be divine--from God--and part of them to be from the devil; that is foolishness in the extreme; it is an absurdity that exists because of the ignorance of some people. I have been astonished at it. I did hope there was more intelligence among the Latter-day Saints, and a greater understanding of principle than to suppose that any one can be a member of this Church in good standing and yet reject polygamy. The Lord has said, that those who reject this principle reject their salvation, they shall be damned, saith the Lord; those to whom I reveal this law and they do not receive it, shall be damned. Now here comes in our consciences. We have either to renounce Mormonism, Joseph Smith, Book of Mormon, Book of Covenants, and the whole system of things as taught by the Latter-day Saints, and say that God has not raised up a Church, has not raised up a prophet, has not begun to restore all things as he promised, we are obliged to do this, or else to say, with all our hearts, "Yes, we are polygamists, and believe in the principle, and we are willing to practice it, because God has spoken from the heavens." Orson Pratt (Journal of Discourses, Vol. XVII, p.229) October 7, 1874

2/23/2007 9:34:04 AM