So basically you're just trolling this section? I'd like to know, so if a mod takes an inclination to actually moderate, they'll start with you. Do you have anything to say to Dropout66, other than an ad hominem and completely unwarranted insult, or are you the true idiot?

9/5/2007 9:49:57 PM

im gonna agree with Chance on this one. Golvoko didn't contribute a damn thing, and he just called you on it. Dropout66 posted a well-reasoned argument. if you don't like it, you're gonna have to come up with something better than calling him a "cop".

allow me to try and summarize Dropout66's point, in a way that Golvoko might better understand:

If you are trying to protest what you see as the "Constitution-Violating, Big Brother Corporate Police State" mentality of our chain McMegastores' security guards.... And in your protest, you call the cops to support you .... and then in front of everyone you've been making a scene for -- customers, employees, managers, bystanders -- YOU are the one who gets arrested, handcuffed, read miranda rights, and hauled away in the back of a squad car ...

guess what? You Just Fucking Lost.

the police have every right are required to investigate the store manager's counter-claim that by refusing their search they think you may have shoplifted. if you comply and are vindicated, you have a basis for a civil lawsuit. but if you refuse to comply with the officers request to see your bag and receipt, and they have to take you downtown so they can look at your bag to determine whether or not you are a shoplifter, then youre gonna have a damn hard time looking like an innocent victim in any court of law.







[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 10:03 PM. Reason : ]

9/5/2007 9:59:37 PM

I don't like the idea of people being charged for not cooperating with the police.

It's bad enough that they can detain you.

Actually charging someone for not cooperating strikes me as unjust.

9/5/2007 10:02:44 PM

Quote :

"Actually charging someone for not cooperating strikes me as unjust. "

how else would the system "work" (assuming it does... it aint perfect but its a lot better than what most of the world has)

I agree that in the gut this feels wrong (we are Americans after all) , but unfortunately there are too many people on the planet to let everyone do what they want. Society....

9/5/2007 10:11:46 PM

I can more or less accept that cops should be able to search us if they have probable cause, regardless of whether we consent.

That's bad enough. We shouldn't be punished further if we don't consent to the search.

There wasn't any good reason to charge this guy.

9/5/2007 10:17:17 PM

LP guys spend their entire day watching security monitors for shoplifters. Did they once ever see this guy pocket something? NO Did they have any reason to think he stole AFTER he made a purchase? NO

so to say that the cop was right and that he had probable cause to ask for his DL/receipt etc is bullshit. You don't just go around picking random people and accuse them of stealing. Him not showing his receipt is not probable cause especially because he HAD a receipt and i'm sure his products were in a CC shopping bag. You don't get a receipt and a CC shopping bag by stealing them

9/5/2007 11:31:02 PM

Since stores do not have any police power, they walk a tenuous legal rope when they start getting physical with a customer (blocking his way, etc).

I consider it a favor to the store to show a receipt when requested, but it is a favor and not an obligation. If I refuse to show a receipt and the store detains my exit, they better have some video of me stealing something or face a lawsuit.

I think receipt-checking is a lazy and clumsy method of store security. You run the risk of hassling good customers who would've spent much more than the shoplifter would've stole.

Losing merchandise sucks, and I hate shoplifters with every fiber of my being...but you have to pick your fights very carefully. If I owned a mega-superstore chain, I would invest a lot more $$ into inconspicuous and recorded observation and in-store prevention.

Superstores spend millions to attract people to their stores. Harassing good customers as they leave sends the message that you don't trust them.

Michael Righi may well be a pain-in-the-ass type of guy, but we need people like him to stand up to the petty and more serious infringements on our rights. I have a lot of respect for these folks who are willing to put up with the embarassment, loss of time and money it requires to fight for their rights.

"The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms." - William Douglas

[Edited on September 5, 2007 at 11:31 PM. Reason : .]

9/5/2007 11:31:25 PM

Stores are not allowed to block you from leaving or physically lay a hand on you. Its up to you to cooperate.

9/5/2007 11:35:19 PM

depends on the laws of the state you are in at the time - NC has no "citizens arrest" (despite Dpt. Fife) so there is always a potential for a boomerang charge of false imprisonment or kidnapping (up to the DA's office, unlikely they'd file charges in this instance).

receipt checking is one part of the store's security - why do so many people look for only one solution to any given problem? Just like police patrol, there is value to visual deterrence (the marked squad car = the LP guy at the door) just as there is value to covert surveillance ( the cameras in the store = covert/UC cops being sneaky bastards). Layer your protection and you increase the odds of making a dent in the problem.


i'll bow out of any further defense/offense regarding this example, absent the full story it's pretty pointless and can be driven in any direction.

9/5/2007 11:45:48 PM

Quote :

"I can more or less accept that cops should be able to search us if they have probable cause, regardless of whether we consent. That's bad enough. We shouldn't be punished further if we don't consent to the search. There wasn't any good reason to charge this guy. "

you are absolutely correct, absent RS/PC and without consent, this guy would walk away no further action taken

-but-

if the cop has RS/PC that a crime has occurred he has the duty/authority to investigate. By consenting to a search of the bag, he would've erased the RS/PC = no further action taken. By refusing... well, he got what he wanted. If I were the cop, I'd count this as a "citizen contact/request granted" on my activity report .... he wanted jail, he got jail - happy to help

9/5/2007 11:49:56 PM

When I worked at Best Buy the rule was if you could not get someone on camera stealing/concealing something you did not fuck with them.

If someone wandered out of range of the 20 cameras then the LP would just page code 10 (to that location) and like 20 employees would just walk up all around the person and ask them if they needed any help. (never accusing them of shit) that scared them shitless because they knew everyone else knew what was up (even though they were not confronted/accused) and they would ditch the product before leaving.

They also had a policy of signing receipts of any item not in a bag on the way out the door. This was not just to ensure that the item was not stolen but that no one fucked up ringing it up. More than once while I worked there they would catch a high dollar item (computer or something) on the way out that the buyer had no idea was not scanned and the cashier just must have missed with the scanner gun. Believe it or not there are still people with enough morals that they would not take advantage of a situation like that, and those folks were glad they did not have to make a second trip to get it straight.

The third reason was organized theft rings would go back in on the same day with the same receipt and try to walk out with second and third batches of a product (they had a receipt for). If the receipt was not signed by LP then the store would have no way of proving they were stealing.

It was quick and painless and people very rarely bitched about it.

9/5/2007 11:56:51 PM

Quote :

"well i understand the logic behind not giving out an address or phone number (unless you use a credit card on that purchase...in which case you're a hypocrite since they already have all your information) but i do NOT understand the logic of not showing a receipt...its nothing private...i mean the cashier just saw it and gave it to you...whats the big deal in showing it to the guy at the door?"

You're absolutely right that there is no big deal in showing the receipt to the guy at the door... it's not a big deal. But the point is that he was making a stand that it was the principle of the request, not the actual request itself. If you don't think it's a principle worth standing up for, then that's fine and you are allowed to have your difference of opinion and ideology.

Quote :

"if you are suspected of a crime, and there is at least reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime then you must cooperate. In this case I would argue that there was probably PC for the arrest. So hypothetically if the cop is investigating and you wont consent to a search of the bag, then the cop can arrest you to complete the investigation and search your bag incident to your arrest. Going back to this scenario, in this case the cop would then (and did) discover that you hadn't stolen anything. Unfortunately for you, you were a dick and didn't just cooperate with the investigation (whether or not it pissed you off). Had you cooperated, you would walk away right then, free in the knowledge that you could sue/complain about everyone on the planet if you wanted to but at least you avoid court/arrest/jail/costs etc. But since you wouldn't cooperate in a lawful investigation you got arrested, and now face the only remaining charge - resist/delay/obstruct and all the happiness that goes with it (court/arrest/jail/costs etc.) ... if the cop has RS/PC that a crime has occurred he has the duty/authority to investigate. By consenting to a search of the bag, he would've erased the RS/PC = no further action taken. By refusing... well, he got what he wanted. If I were the cop, I'd count this as a "citizen contact/request granted" on my activity report .... he wanted jail, he got jail - happy to help"

The problem here is that you're consistently misunderstanding the chain of events (as given by the original blogger, at least). He DID hand over the receipt to the cop when the cop requested it, PRIOR to being arrested for not providing his driver's license. He never refused the receipt to the cop; however, it's not mentioned whether or not the cop requested to search his Circuit City bag in tandem with showing the receipt, prior to his arrest. It mentions that his bags were searched after being arrested, but we don't really know if he refused a bag search by the cop beforehand. Know your details.



And for all the people making ad hominem attacks on his character, assuming he lives at home with his parents, has no life or is out trying to make a quick buck off of Circuit City... he certainly doesn't appear to be. He owns a half-million dollar computer security consultancy at the age of 26, and was just recently named one of Pittsburgh's "50 Finest." You can certainly still think he's an asshat if you like, but don't assume he's a loafer.

9/6/2007 6:00:49 AM

Quote :

"so to say that the cop was right and that he had probable cause to ask for his DL/receipt etc is bullshit. You don't just go around picking random people and accuse them of stealing. Him not showing his receipt is not probable cause especially because he HAD a receipt and i'm sure his products were in a CC shopping bag. You don't get a receipt and a CC shopping bag by stealing them"

They definitely shouldn't have detained the guy for not showing a receipt, but if you think having a bag and -a- receipt means someone paid for the item they're leaving with, you're pretty naive.

1. Buy a CD, get bag and receipt
2. Put bag and receipt in pocket, reenter store
3. Put GPS unit in old bag, carry old receipt with you

Quote :

"I consider it a favor to the store to show a receipt when requested, but it is a favor and not an obligation. If I refuse to show a receipt and the store detains my exit, they better have some video of me stealing something or face a lawsuit."

Exactly, which is why LP people are never supposed to attempt to detain unless they have it on video. In fact, when I worked LP, I was explicitly told that if I lost track of the guy for even a split second with the cameras, we couldn't do anything to them. The risk that they could've dumped the merchandise during that split second wasn't worth getting sued.

Quote :

"I think receipt-checking is a lazy and clumsy method of store security. You run the risk of hassling good customers who would've spent much more than the shoplifter would've stole."

You know what's much more important to people than receipt hassles? Prices.

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 9:09 AM. Reason : /]

9/6/2007 9:08:47 AM

Quote :

"The problem here is that you're consistently misunderstanding the chain of events (as given by the original blogger, at least). He DID hand over the receipt to the cop when the cop requested it, PRIOR to being arrested for not providing his driver's license. He never refused the receipt to the cop; however, it's not mentioned whether or not the cop requested to search his Circuit City bag in tandem with showing the receipt, prior to his arrest. It mentions that his bags were searched after being arrested, but we don't really know if he refused a bag search by the cop beforehand. Know your details. "

what details?

you yourself admit theres a lot we don't know, and what we do know is all from the suspects side of events, no details from the multiple store employees and no details from the police officer.

If I am misunderstanding the details, then why did the arrest withstand judicial review - perhaps because we don't know all the details?

9/6/2007 10:41:10 AM

Quote :

"I don't like the idea of people being charged for not cooperating with the police. "

Normaly I wouldn't either, but at the same time, if you're going to call the police, you should cooperate with them. Otherwise you're wasting their time and my money.

Quote :

"LP guys spend their entire day watching security monitors for shoplifters. Did they once ever see this guy pocket something? NO Did they have any reason to think he stole AFTER he made a purchase? NO "

LP can't watch everyone all the time nor can they guarantee that you and the cashier aren't budies looking to rip the company off.

Quote :

" You don't just go around picking random people and accuse them of stealing."

They don't pick random people. They pick everyone, which is why they're allowed to do this.

Quote :

"You don't get a receipt and a CC shopping bag by stealing them"

Sure you can. People drop reciepts in the parking lot all the time, and if you're really interested, it doesn't take much to buy a thermal printer and some paper. Bags are ridiculously easy to come by, just ask for one.

Quote :

"I think receipt-checking is a lazy and clumsy method of store security. You run the risk of hassling good customers who would've spent much more than the shoplifter would've stole. Losing merchandise sucks, and I hate shoplifters with every fiber of my being...but you have to pick your fights very carefully. If I owned a mega-superstore chain, I would invest a lot more $$ into inconspicuous and recorded observation and in-store prevention. "

The problem with recording devices is they are all passive, and if you don't catch it immediately are almost useless in terms of pressing charges against someone. As far as instore prevention, this is one method of that, and much cheaper than paying 10 people to walk around in plain clothes all day, and more effective at catching employee theft as well. Is it perfect? No of course not, but no one security solution is, that's why you have layers.

Quote :

" I have a lot of respect for these folks who are willing to put up with the embarassment, loss of time and money it requires to fight for their rights. "

I would to, except I don't feel any rights are violated. If you are walking out of a store, carrying property that belongs to the store, I don't see why it's unreasonable for the store to ask that you provide evidence that what you are carrying out was sold to you and is now your property.

Quote :

""The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms." - William Douglas "

If you want to be let alone, you shouldn't interact with other people.

Quote :

"He owns a half-million dollar computer security consultancy at the age of 26, and was just recently named one of Pittsburgh's "50 Finest." You can certainly still think he's an asshat if you like, but don't assume he's a loafer."

But he needs his dad to post a $300 bail?


Out of curiosity, for the folks arguing that a bag check is a violation of his rights. What is the practical difference between this, and the security sensors at some stores? Both examine you for stolen merchendise. The only difference to me is the electronic version has a higher rate of false positives.

9/6/2007 10:57:57 AM

Quote :

"They don't pick random people. They pick everyone, which is why they're allowed to do this."

No they don't. I've gone past the LP post at Circuit City, Best Buy, and Tiger Direct all within the last week and not once was I asked to show my receipt for the goods in my bag.

9/6/2007 11:23:27 AM

Quote :

"Just show the damn receipt and get it over with. I hope that idiot feels like what he did was worth it"

9/6/2007 11:41:03 AM

^^ In that case, we need the other 2 sides of this story. Sure you could take the guy at his word, that he was just innocently minding his own business, and they randomly stopped him and started lubing up their gloves. On the other hand, we can also ask just what he did to make the LP deviate from his normal procedures, AND to call his manager over to chase the guy down.

9/6/2007 1:17:51 PM

l337 b4k4 your running on fumes here
i just read all of your arguments and most are pretty thin
time to stfu

Quote :

" Normaly I wouldn't either, but at the same time, if you're going to call the police, you should cooperate with them. Otherwise you're wasting their time and my money."

It does not matter who calls the police...

9/6/2007 1:33:28 PM

Quote :

"But he needs his dad to post a $300 bail?"

you can't post your own bail when you are behind bars...unless you have the money cash in hand. I tried this with $3000 and they wouldn't take a check or a debit card....cash only.

Quote :

" They don't pick random people. They pick everyone, which is why they're allowed to do this."

BJ's picks everyone, BBY and CC only pick a few random people....usually only if you bought something in the back of the store like a TV or Computer and are carting it out.

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 1:47 PM. Reason : fda]

9/6/2007 1:45:44 PM

^Random! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 2:19 PM. Reason : Not gonna get into it.]

9/6/2007 2:18:48 PM

^no they don't pick every 'thug' that walks out the door and when they do its probably because they really did steal...in which case they catch them before 'exit strategy' is in effect.

I could pull the same card for airport security then you'd bitch about how it really is random, because if its not something against blacks...it doesn't exist.

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 2:50 PM. Reason : fda]

9/6/2007 2:49:10 PM

Bullshit, airport checks aren't random at all, they absolutely target Arabs and people with middle eastern complexions and names.

9/6/2007 3:06:14 PM

Quote :

"l337 b4k4 your running on fumes here"

Hardly, I'm just pointing out all the places where this guys story has holes and all the various arguments for the other side of the story, given that we are only given his side. Personaly, as the law is written currently, I think he was well within his rights to keep walking. But I also think that the point at which he stopped and turned arround to cause a scene is the point where he loses any sympathy I would have for him. I also think that the law as currently written is a little weak in it's protections of the business owner's interests.

Besides, do you really believe that if CC's policy is not to stop everyone, and if he really was just minding his own business and not doing anything to cause a scene or cause problems that this would have gone down exactly as he describes it? He was looking for a fight and looking for an argument and he got both.

Quote :

"It does not matter who calls the police..."

If you call the police, and then refuse to cooperate with them to solve your problem, it damn well should matter. That's my tax dollars you're wasting. It should be perfectly legitimate for you to be charged with wasting an officer's time if you call them and then refuse to cooperate to solve the matter at hand.

Quote :

"^Random! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"

Nice implication, but the fact that it hasn't been brought up in his story certainly implies that he didn't get LP, a manger and the local PD to deviate from normal procedures just because he was black.

9/6/2007 3:26:23 PM

LP's profile like crazy when it comes to whom to follow with the cameras.

Shifty behavior and people wearing unusual, theft-conducive clothing take priority, but after that, if you're young and dress urban, just assume you have a camera following you whenever you enter a store.

9/6/2007 3:27:20 PM

In otherwords if you dress the part of a criminal, you should expect to be regarded as such? In other news, if you dress like a clown, people expect you to know how to juggle.

9/6/2007 3:46:41 PM

if people are going to steal games/music/movies, they'll just download it

they aren't going to run out the door of best buy with a CD in hand

9/6/2007 4:25:29 PM

No, people will still steal the actual game. Remember, they're not usualy getting it to have, they're getting it to sell.

9/6/2007 4:29:24 PM

Quote :

"Bullshit, airport checks aren't random at all, they absolutely target Arabs and people with middle eastern complexions and names."

That was what i was refraining from saying but as you know, the black lesblock would say different because its not blacks being targeted.

9/6/2007 4:34:00 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Nice implication, but the fact that it hasn't been brought up in his story certainly implies that he didn't get LP, a manger and the local PD to deviate from normal procedures just because he was black."

Nice implication? Why are you busting out the sass over this shit? I wasn't even talking about this story, and I don't even know that this Mike guy is black.

Golovko claims they check receipts at random. I'm saying that's not true...I'll go a little further and say almost everybody knows that's not true. Do you believe they perform these receipt checks at random?

(I've been asked to show a receipt maybe twice in my life. Once I was actually acting suspicious--I'd just bought a case of beer and I was going around to all those self-check-out change returns cause I needed to scrounge up some loot for a pack of smokes. The other time, I was just being myself--I don't think I actually showed my receipt to them...it was so unusual to me that I couldn't comprehend what they were asking...I just kept walking and figured it out once I was in my car.)

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: In otherwords if you dress the part of a criminal, you should expect to be regarded as such? In other news, if you dress like a clown, people expect you to know how to juggle."

See. It's really easy for you to say shit like this cause you may not dress particularly urban all the time. Other people do, and for the most part, they should be able to dress the way they want without getting hassled.

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 4:45 PM. Reason : sss]

9/6/2007 4:43:17 PM

Quote :

"In otherwords if you dress the part of a criminal, you should expect to be regarded as such?"

Clever criminals don't dress like you think criminals dress.

9/6/2007 4:44:11 PM

Quote :

"I've been asked to show a receipt maybe twice in my life"

Did you take an extra 5-10 seconds to show the receipt, or did you overreact and blow the whole meaningless request out of proportion and claim civil rights violations and call the cops?

9/6/2007 4:52:35 PM

Quote :

"Clever criminals don't dress like you think criminals dress."

When I was in high school I worked at a retail store for a few months. Our biggest theft problem came from mom's with strollers or other baby gear. They were decked out with sensor blocking foil and such. Holding blankets and kids' coats was easy cover for your hands when stealing.

9/6/2007 5:28:05 PM

Quote :

"what details? you yourself admit theres a lot we don't know, and what we do know is all from the suspects side of events, no details from the multiple store employees and no details from the police officer. If I am misunderstanding the details, then why did the arrest withstand judicial review - perhaps because we don't know all the details? "

All the things you were underlining were me saying that are numerous details that we aren't party to from his statement, through omission. But you seemed to be making assumptions that he had refused a bag search from the cop; I was just pointing out that we didn't know if that was the case.


And btw everyone else, the guy is white.

9/6/2007 6:02:47 PM

^AHA. BUSTED, 1337 b4k4!

9/6/2007 6:34:36 PM

Quote :

"Golovko claims they check receipts at random. I'm saying that's not true..."

Quote :

"(I've been asked to show a receipt maybe twice in my life. Once I was actually acting suspicious--I'd just bought a case of beer and I was going around to all those self-check-out change returns cause I needed to scrounge up some loot for a pack of smokes. The other time, I was just being myself--I don't think I actually showed my receipt to them...it was so unusual to me that I couldn't comprehend what they were asking...I just kept walking and figured it out once I was in my car.) "

So if it's not random, are you claiming you were being profiled when they asked you both of these times? I think everyone here could name times when they've been asked and times they haven't. So unless you have some specific numbers to suggest that it isn't relatively random why imply that it isn't?

Quote :

"See. It's really easy for you to say shit like this cause you may not dress particularly urban all the time. Other people do, and for the most part, they should be able to dress the way they want without getting hassled. "

Define "dressing urban".

You're right though, people should be allowed to dress however they want, but they shouldn't be suprised when people assume them to be associated with the image they try to project. You don't exist in a vaccum, and your choices in dress, speech and bahvior all convey an image. If you don't want people to operate on that image, you shouldn't covey it in the first place.

[quot]Clever criminals don't dress like you think criminals dress.
[/quote]

You assume that there's only one way for a criminal to dress, or that given any particular situation, one would assume a criminal to be dressed the same each time. You also assume that just because it doesn't work to catch the clever criminals that it's useless to use it against the dumb ones.

Quote :

"^AHA. BUSTED, 1337 b4k4! "

I wasn't saying it was black. What I was saying, albiet very poorly worded, was that since we haven't heard hide nor hair about racism in this instance, that we can conclude he isn't black.

9/6/2007 8:20:52 PM

If you dress, talk, and behave like a 'thug'....i don't care what color your skin is....you should be selected for a 'random' receipt show/tell.

You are how old now? and you've been selected twice? ok thats not random....

I, on the other hand, get selected at every single security check point at every American airport. They have the audacity to say to my face 'you've been selected for a random check'....now thats not random, thats racial profiling. Every time they say that to me...i tell them, if i had this kind of 'random' luck with the lottery...i'd be set for life. And before you spew more garbage from your mouth...no i don't dress suspicious, i don't look suspicious, i don't have a beard or a dirty spot on my forehead. Nothing about my appearance says 'arab' except for my tan skin, and dark hair.

you act as though black people have it so rough.....

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 9:07 PM. Reason : fda]

9/6/2007 9:06:58 PM

Quote :

"You assume that there's only one way for a criminal to dress, or that given any particular situation, one would assume a criminal to be dressed the same each time."

Nope. The statement makes it clear criminals are not all the same. "Clever criminals" implies other criminals do something different.

Quote :

"You also assume that just because it doesn't work to catch the clever criminals that it's useless to use it against the dumb ones."

Uh, nope. I didn't assume that at all. You're reading too much into my sentence.

But if you focus too much on folks dressed as punks and thugs, you'll miss the ones who clean up before criminal activity.

More to the point, I've read shoplifting rates don't very much by among different segments of the population. Traveling anarchists punks and middle-class housewives both do it.

9/6/2007 9:11:18 PM

i feel safer knowing golovko is getting searched. those rolly eyes are too close to shift eyes for my tastes.

9/6/2007 9:44:11 PM

^^^AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...I just realized you were attempting to talk to me.

And I think it's pathetic that you can admit that you've been treated differently because of your skin color, but you're too fucking racist to relate to black people on that. Perhaps now is a good time for you to share more about how you're Egyptian and how Egyptains aren't all black.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: So if it's not random, are you claiming you were being profiled when they asked you both of these times? I think everyone here could name times when they've been asked and times they haven't. So unless you have some specific numbers to suggest that it isn't relatively random why imply that it isn't?"

So you're admitting that you actually believe they check receipts at random?

Seriously? That's what you really and truly believe?

I'll applaud your convictions if that's what you stick with, but you should know that most cognizant folks disagree.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Define "dressing urban". You're right though, people should be allowed to dress however they want, but they shouldn't be suprised when people assume them to be associated with the image they try to project. You don't exist in a vaccum, and your choices in dress, speech and bahvior all convey an image. If you don't want people to operate on that image, you shouldn't covey it in the first place."

But there's a disconnect... Some folks like a certain dress and never consider the "image," and even when they do, images aren't particularly consistent in our minds. My friend's mother thinks spaghetti straps = prostitute, for example. If you saw a girl in a pair of shorts and a tank top, would you assume she's trying to sell sex for money?

So, like I said, for the most part, people should be able to dress the way they please without getting hassled. No tired points from you about images is going to change my opinion.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: I wasn't saying it HE was black. What I was saying, albiet very poorly worded, was that since we haven't heard hide nor hair about racism in this instance, that we can conclude he isn't black."

Doesn't matter.

You were straight busted when you assumed I was talking about this story in particular, and you assumed I was talking about race when all I did was repeat the word "random" and add some AHAHAHAHAHAHAs.

Come on...you think I'm hypersensitive about race when really you're hypersensitive about me.

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 10:03 PM. Reason : sss]

9/6/2007 9:56:17 PM

Quote :

"So you're admitting that you actually believe they check receipts at random? Seriously? That's what you really and truly believe? "

Do you have evidence to the contrary? I know that if my job depended on making sure that I was doing RANDOM checks, I would sure as hell do it. Sure I could be a little racist and peg all the black guys or all the chinese lady's, but all it takes is one complaint to my manger or to corporate and I'm out a job. No company is going to risk a lawsuit for my ass.

Quote :

"But there's a disconnect... Some folks like a certain dress and never consider the "image," and even when they do, images aren't particularly consistent in our minds. My friend's mother thinks spaghetti straps = prostitute, for example. If you saw a girl in a pair of shorts and a tank top, would you assume she's trying to sell sex for money? "

I would certainly assume she's trying to draw sexual attention to herself. Whether or not she intends that is irellevant, she's dressing the part. It doesn't matter if you don't intend to convey the image that you do, the fact is you still do.

Quote :

"You were straight busted when you assumed I was talking about this story in particular, and you assumed I was talking about race when all I did was repeat the word "random" and add some AHAHAHAHAHAHAs. "

Yeah, I can see where it would be so stupid of me to assume that you would be talking about the topic at hand when posting in a thread.

And it's not that bad of an assumption that you (who as a rule, thinks racism is still a huge problem in the US) would be implying that "random" checks are really based on race. If you don't say what you mean, don't be suprised when people interpret what you say differently from what you think.

9/6/2007 10:38:15 PM

Quote :

"And I think it's pathetic that you can admit that you've been treated differently because of your skin color, but you're too fucking racist to relate to black people on that. Perhaps now is a good time for you to share more about how you're Egyptian and how Egyptains aren't all black."

are you saying Egyptians are black? I have yet to meet a black Egyptian.....we have 'dark' Egyptians but by characteristics they are not Black. Also, I don't bitch about it and say we Egyptians/Arabs are oppressed....give us a free ride in life! I'm just pointing out that Black people don't have a right to bitch because EVERYONE gets shit too. I'm not racist....but i can't stand people like you that think the world owes you something.

Quote :

"^^^AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...I just realized you were attempting to talk to me."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA i just realized that ^^^ was directed at my post! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 10:57 PM. Reason : fda]

9/6/2007 10:54:31 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Do you have evidence to the contrary? I know that if my job depended on making sure that I was doing RANDOM checks, I would sure as hell do it. Sure I could be a little racist and peg all the black guys or all the chinese lady's, but all it takes is one complaint to my manger or to corporate and I'm out a job. No company is going to risk a lawsuit for my ass."

Young folks, in particular, and other minorities are targets. You can be one of the select few that refuse to acknowledge this. And you can definitely feel free to believe that you're better than me because I have no evidence at this time.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Yeah, I can see where it would be so stupid of me to assume that you would be talking about the topic at hand when posting in a thread."

I was responding to someone who was making a general comment.

Pay attention before you respond.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: And it's not that bad of an assumption that you (who as a rule, thinks racism is still a huge problem in the US) would be implying that "random" checks are really based on race. If you don't say what you mean, don't be suprised when people interpret what you say differently from what you think."

Racism still is a huge problem, and I'm all about talking about it.

Apparently, you know all this, which is why you should know that if I'm gonna talk about racism, I'm gonna talk about racism.

Otherwise, you're the one being reactionary. Which you were.

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: I would certainly assume she's trying to draw sexual attention to herself. Whether or not she intends that is irellevant, she's dressing the part. It doesn't matter if you don't intend to convey the image that you do, the fact is you still do."

A tank top and shorts are inviting sexual attention?!?!?!

You're more fucked than I ever imagined.

It's hot outside, man.

[Edited on September 6, 2007 at 11:17 PM. Reason : ]

9/6/2007 11:14:00 PM

you feed off of racism.

9/6/2007 11:15:46 PM

Quote :

"It's hot outside, man."

I hear wearing a burqa is a good way to beat the heat.

9/6/2007 11:19:53 PM

I can't think of a store that checks receipts at random. There's way too much room for lawsuits there. I know Sam's Club receipt checks 100% of the time. Best Buy just checks receipts if you purchased anything somewhere other than the front registers.

Quote :

"if people are going to steal games/music/movies, they'll just download it they aren't going to run out the door of best buy with a CD in hand"

You'd think so, but shoplifters tend to be pretty dumb, and CDs are by far the biggest theft item in electronics stores.

[Edited on September 7, 2007 at 9:19 AM. Reason : .]

9/7/2007 9:19:44 AM

exactly. you can't re-sell a downloaded cd... and most of these thefts aren't for personal enjoyment, they're to resell ASAP. CD's are light and easily concealed, making them a prime target. New, still in the plastic, can probably fetch 6-7 bucks a pop, if not more. So, if you grab and run 10 cd's, you can take it somewhere and get a little cash for it.

OR

you're part of an organized retail theft gang that works out of higher-priced areas, snatching cd's and dvd's for 14.99 and reselling them through localized stores at 19.99.... or alternatively, taking it back to another best buy 200 miles away, getting $500 in store credit, and selling THAT store credit to a third party for $450.

it's pretty easy, and it's common. the object they're stealing has little to do with it's use or purpose, only it's value.

9/7/2007 11:32:00 AM

I think the best was when this older lady tried returning 2 xbox360 games that were shrink wrapped and you could obviously tell it was a home made job so when customer service opened the cases they were empty. She was then arrested but tried denying the whole thing saying she was just returning them for her sun and had no idea....



and before you go off on your racist quest, bridget....she wasn't black

9/7/2007 11:35:52 AM

I just returned something to Walmart.

They take your drivers license number when you make a return/exchange just in case you're cheating them.

They don't play

9/7/2007 11:40:08 AM

^^How can your story prompt a "racist quest"? No, take that back...WTF is a "racist quest" exactly?

9/7/2007 11:47:57 AM