nobody said it was acceptable. it is unacceptable that is why they were punished and lost a 1rst round draft pick

what people are discussing is how ridiculous it is that people try to say their super bowls should have asteriks

9/18/2007 8:34:18 PM

There's no proof that Bonds cheated either.

People still think he should have a *.

9/18/2007 8:35:15 PM

^^what about the whole barry bonds asterisk thing? i'm just curious, i dont have an opinion but i figure if u got an opinion on the asterisk for the patriots u'd have an opinion on the barry bonds thing

[Edited on September 18, 2007 at 8:36 PM. Reason : .]

9/18/2007 8:36:35 PM

^^^why is that ridiculous? they clearly cheated....and they won 3 superbowls...all 3-point nailbiters...lets just forget they ever cheated and move on?

also their little 1st round draft pick is meaningless...oh no they wont get the 30th or 31st or 32nd pick next year...that will show them! goodell's iron fist turned to bitch putty

[Edited on September 18, 2007 at 8:37 PM. Reason : *]

9/18/2007 8:37:46 PM

so all those other super bowls have asterisks too??

9/18/2007 9:07:48 PM

does bonds' 619 or 683 or 712 have asterisks or just 756?

9/18/2007 9:09:14 PM

Cheating in the Super Bowl? That would never happen.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2025197

9/18/2007 9:21:25 PM

^^you arent following me, read the quotes in my long post from the last page.

[Edited on September 18, 2007 at 9:26 PM. Reason : ^yea i said that shit on the last page two, its ok for one team to cheat, but not the other]

9/18/2007 9:25:27 PM

^^WOW DID THAT HAPPEN, NOBODY HAS MENTIONED THAT YET

^your quotes are just people defending cheating by saying the pats arent the first team to cheat

once again, just cause other people cheat doesnt make it right

and what other teams won 3 superbowls while cheating

[Edited on September 18, 2007 at 9:26 PM. Reason : .]

9/18/2007 9:25:40 PM

i'm not defending it, i'm just saying if it is your opinion that ALL of those super bowls, and the panthers' nfc championship, require asterisks, then i won't argue with you anymore

and i dont know who has cheated for 3, but the steelers cheated for 4 and the broncos cheated for 2

9/18/2007 9:29:59 PM

i dont know when they started cheating...maybe last year...maybe none of the superbowls have asterisks

does that mean this isnt a news story? we're talking about the best NFL team over the last 10 years, the only legit dynasty since the cowboys or 49ers, and they were caught cheating...should we just drop it?

cause simply taking away a draft pick is not going to send any kind of message that goodell doesnt tolerate cheating

[Edited on September 18, 2007 at 9:33 PM. Reason : .]

9/18/2007 9:32:16 PM

ok i wont argue with any of that

perhaps the punishment could be more severe. i wouldn't condone any death blows like banning from the playoffs or something ridiculous like that, but i would be fine with suspending bellichek for a few games, a big fine on the franchise, that type of thing.

9/18/2007 9:36:07 PM

i think bellichek shouldve been suspended for a couple games

and this isnt his first offense...he got caught for the same thing last year! and he told the nfl he wouldnt do it...and he did it again!

i guess i expected goodell to be stricter...he was quite strict with all the players who have gotten in trouble lately...for some reason i expected the same type enforcement with coaches/teams

9/18/2007 9:38:07 PM

they wont do this gay ass shit against the ravens or ray ray and big ed will put a fist upside that jaw

9/18/2007 10:11:36 PM

oh great its fucking rhymngarfunkel back again

9/18/2007 10:12:29 PM

Just reported on NFL Live, Harrison's first shipment of HGH came just weeks before the Superbowl against Carolina.

9/19/2007 4:11:34 PM

i remember they had some "award" for the dirtiest player in the NFL...and it wasnt some fan poll, it was something where they literally asked other NFL players to vote...I recall Harrison winning in either 04 and 05 or maybe it was 05 and 06...cant recall...but yeah no surprise he was juiced on something

9/19/2007 4:58:09 PM

^^Anyone remember the first quarter of that game? I think the Panthers punted like 5 times and had negative yards. Worst first quarter ever.

haha late hits do not equal roid/HGH rage

[Edited on September 19, 2007 at 5:02 PM. Reason : .]

9/19/2007 4:59:04 PM

Quote :

"late hits do not equal roid/HGH rage"

you dont think roids/hgh make you more aggressive? thats all im saying

9/19/2007 5:05:36 PM

shit man, he's been doing that stuff since he came into the league. He's been dirty forever(his piss probably has been too though).

9/19/2007 5:25:38 PM

bonds and mcgwire could knock them out of the park before roids but roids helped!

9/19/2007 5:31:27 PM

TO got fined $7500 for his touchdown celebration with the fake camera. i hate TO, but thats complete bullshit

9/19/2007 7:45:46 PM

its because he used the football

they have made that clear about using the ball as a prop not being allowed anymore

9/19/2007 8:36:23 PM

right, which is complete bullshit. no fun league is right

9/19/2007 8:43:36 PM

Quote :

"you dont think roids/hgh make you more aggressive? thats all im saying"

HGH doesn't make you more agressive; it might make him heal faster after playing aggressively, but it wouldn't turn him into a player that lands dirty hits.

9/19/2007 10:15:23 PM

Something funny that was posted on Page 2:

9/21/2007 9:29:14 AM

The only funny part is the frame where he changed hoodies.

9/21/2007 9:33:49 AM

gg ny post:

9/21/2007 3:08:57 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3029661

/thread

9/21/2007 4:16:17 PM

Quote :

"gg ny post:"

Looks like they've got to find something to put on their sports page when 4 out of the 5 of their sports teams playing currently are sucking ass.

[Edited on September 21, 2007 at 4:53 PM. Reason : .]

9/21/2007 4:51:36 PM

Quote :

"Jets fan sues Pats, seeks $184 million By Dennis Waszak Jr., AP Sports Writer | September 28, 2007 NEW YORK --A New York Jets season-ticket holder filed a class-action lawsuit Friday against the New England Patriots and coach Bill Belichick for "deceiving customers." The lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Newark, N.J., by Carl Mayer of Princeton Township, N.J., stems from the Patriots being caught illegally videotaping signals from Jets coaches in New England's 38-14 season-opening win Sept. 9. "They violated the integrity of the game," Mayer's attorney, Bruce Afran, told The Associated Press. "This is a way of punishing Belichick and the Patriots." Mayer is seeking more than $184 million in damages for Jets ticket holders. Belichick was fined $500,000 by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, and the team was fined $250,000 for violating a league rule that prohibits clubs from using a video camera on the sidelines for any purpose -- including recording signals relayed to opposing players on the field. New England also must forfeit a first-round draft pick next year if it makes the playoffs or a second- and third-rounder if it doesn't. "They were deceiving customers," said the 48-year-old Mayer. "You can't deceive customers." The lawsuit maintained that because other teams found illegal videotaping by the defendants, Jets ticket holders should be compensated for all games played in Giants Stadium between the Jets and Patriots since Belichick became head coach in 2000. The two calculated that because customers paid $61.6 million to watch eight "fraudulent" games, they're entitled to triple that amount -- or $184.8 million -- in compensation under the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization Act and the New Jersey Consumer Fraud Act. "How many times have the Patriots done this? We find it hard to believe they did it just once," Mayer said. "We just want to get to the truth of the matter of what the Patriots did to the Jets. I think the ticket holders are genuinely concerned about it. This is a type of misrepresentation." Patriots spokesman Stacey James declined to comment on the lawsuit. Mayer and Afran, who consider themselves public interest lawyers, have been thorns in the side of New Jersey politicians for years, filing lawsuits and demanding investigations to advance their grievances. They are well known in the state but generally have had little success in their causes. Both have lost bids for elected offices, and Mayer once served as a presidential campaign adviser to Ralph Nader. Their demand in March for a probe of Gov. Jon S. Corzine's gifts to a former girlfriend was rejected by a federal prosecutor. In 2006, a judge vetoed their effort to block Corzine's appointment of Rep. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., to fill the governor's seat in the U.S. Senate. They also failed to get a court to order a special election to replace Gov. James E. McGreevey when he resigned in 2004. Now, they're taking on the Patriots. Their latest lawsuit asserted that the secret videotaping violated the contractual "expectations and rights" of Jets ticket holders "to observe an honest match played in compliance with all laws and regulations." The actions of Belichick and the Patriots violated federal and state racketeering laws, as well as the New Jersey Consumer Fraud Act and New Jersey Deceptive Business Practices Act, according to the lawsuit. "Having been a lifelong Jets fan, as soon as I heard this, I was completely outraged," Mayer said. "The NFL just slapped them on the wrist. I'm a consumer lawyer, and this is consumer fraud.""

9/30/2007 1:35:40 AM

Breaking News (ESPN Bottomline): NY Times reports Matt Walsh sent NFL 8 video tapes of playcalling signals from five opponents in six games from 2000 to 2002 seasons, but does not include Rams walkthrough before the super bowl.

5/7/2008 10:02:22 PM

oh it is no big deal, there is no way they could have benefited in any way from any of this. they probably still would've won a lot of their games(AS THEY SHOWED THIS YEAR, THEY DIDNT NEED THE TAPES). Since they didn't need them, why punish them?

5/7/2008 10:09:59 PM

because its cheating?

5/7/2008 10:19:26 PM

Fucking media. So the reporter that "broke" the story that Walsh had a tape of the Rams walk-through completely lied about it and created a media frenzy. Another reason not to read the paper or watch ESPN.

5/8/2008 11:27:01 AM

^ More like a source gave bad information, based on what I've heard about this. Reporter should have checked into it a little harder maybe, but hardly lied.

5/8/2008 12:32:36 PM

^More like a source didn't give any information

Quote :

""Mr. Walsh has never claimed to have a tape of the walk-through," said Walsh's lawyer Michael Levy, according to the NY Times. "Mr. Walsh has never been the source of any of the media speculation about such a tape. Mr. Walsh was not the source for the Feb. 2 Boston Herald article.""

So the reporter said his source (Walsh or whoever) told him he had tapes of the walk-through. Now no source exists. So who is his source? Is that not lying? I thought making up stuff and lying were pretty much one and the same...

EDIT: It's not just this that makes me mad about the papers/ESPN. It's that they make this into a story days before the Superbowl, all based on a "source" that was never disclosed. There are lots of other examples of people naming anonymous sources and resulting shit-storms that occur. Then, ESPN guys openly blast bloggers as being unprofessional....

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 1:00 PM. Reason : c]

5/8/2008 12:56:29 PM

5/8/2008 1:14:48 PM

Well of course the reporter isn't going to divulge who the source is. Just because Walsh isn't the source doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Using an anonymous source isn't nearly the same thing as making shit up. C'mon. The reporter is right not to divulge the source, but was quite wrong in not doing enough reporting to find out the source was incorrect.

If the reporter, however, DID in fact make up the anonymous source, then yes, you are correct. Like I said, I only know what little I heard about it on Mike and Mike this morning.

5/8/2008 1:39:39 PM

Whether Walsh was or wasn't the source, it was clear that everyone was lead to believe that and he did nothing to discount that either. He was happy to be in the spotlight and talk vaguely about all this stuff he had on the patriots. When push came to shove, all he had was what we already know the Patriots did. No walk through of a super bowl, nothing but some coaches giving signals.

What a joke Walsh is, this story could have been one of the more overblown sports stories in the last 10 years.

5/8/2008 2:11:12 PM

^ I agree with this.

Tired of it. Punish them and move on. Thanks.

5/8/2008 2:18:43 PM

This story should never have been a story.

They've already been punished for this btw.

^^^I'm not really familiar with the way Journalism works, but couldn't his editor or whoever come to him and say "Listen Douchebag, you've sullied the reputation of our newspaper already, name your source, admit you made it up (and GTFO), or say nothing and GTFO." I can't imagine the Pats fans are very happy with their local paper right now...


[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 2:24 PM. Reason : ^]

5/8/2008 2:22:53 PM

I suppose the editor COULD, but anonymous sources are often the backbone of investigative, hard-hitting stories.

If you or your paper gets a reputation for outing anonymous sources, well, good luck in the future in another business because you're done as a journalist.

A mistake damages your credibility, but it can be repaired with admitting the mistake, explaining how it was wrong and why it happened, and getting it right. As long as these things are done immediately, it will be OK.

If you out an anonymous source, your credibility is destroyed and the trust you NEED to have built up with potential sources is just completely gone.

I understand what you're saying, but journalists go to prison protecting anonymous sources, i.e. the guy (or two?) who went to jail in the BALCO/Bonds stuff. Judge ordered him to reveal his source, and he said no. That's that.

5/8/2008 3:21:39 PM

Quote :

"A mistake damages your credibility, but it can be repaired with admitting the mistake, explaining how it was wrong and why it happened, and getting it right. As long as these things are done immediately, it will be OK."

Are you talking about the reporter or the paper in general? The paper may be okay but the journalist is toast This guy is going to get pulled off the Pats beat, no doubt. His editor probably has 100 messages and 1,000 emails in his inbox right now. I would be surprised if he isn't canned in the next week. Editor as well. There is more to this story to come, I'm sure.

And one source who wasn't even Walsh himself??? Journalistic Integrity???

BTW, this seems to be the general sentiment with the MSM today

Quote :

""Other media outlets including ESPN, had this allegation and pursued this allegation for months, and it just didn't meet the standard in terms of what you needed to report it, and the Boston Herald evidently felt they had met the standard to report it," Mortensen said. "They need to come out and say, 'We stand by our story' or they need to have a retraction and apology and deal with the consequences of it, but certainly it's damaging to the Boston Herald at this point, especially if they stay silent on the subject.""

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 3:52 PM. Reason : a]

5/8/2008 3:42:57 PM

Well it depends on the nature of the mistake itself.

I've written some stories where I misunderstood something from a City Council meeting and so it was reported incorrectly. It was an honest mistake that was corrected with a correction and another interview with the city manager. It wasn't a huge deal.

In THIS case, obviously it's a little more than a misunderstanding.

So firing the reporter or editor could certainly be part of the attrition.

5/8/2008 3:51:37 PM

I edited just before you wrote that. Well, hopefully this will prevent this from happening in the future, this is going to be all over ESPN/radio today and tonight.

Thing that pisses me off is that ESPN and Sportswriters everywhere have been blasting bloggers for posting erroneous stuff, then this happens.

5/8/2008 3:56:17 PM

I just really love how Walsh lead everyone to believe that this is what he had. Although he never came out and said "I have the walkthrough tape" he never said, "no that isn't what I had." He used the idea that he had this tape for personal gain.

So we go through all this shit, he(Walsh) makes this big fuss about getting protection from lawyers, and not being sued, and someone has to pay his legal fees, etc, etc. and what does he have? The same shit that we ALREADY knew he had.

And for all those people who are going to jump in here and restart the "The patriots are evil" idea, keep in mind at this point it isn't about what the Patriots did, its about this moron and bad reporting that have kept this story going. Hopefully now we can move on, sick of it.

5/8/2008 4:58:18 PM

I don't blame the guy, he needs to stir up as much controversy as possible, that way the book deal is bigger down the road.

5/8/2008 6:01:22 PM

BTTT for upcoming press conferences. This thread should be deleted after today...

5/13/2008 11:27:51 AM

haha, Specter is calling for an independant investigation, much like the Mitchell Report earlier in baseball. Going to be some shit here I think.

Patriots cheated flat out. Tapes show clock with down and distance, hand signals, then endzone view of offensive/defensive formations. Can definitely be a factor in games, especially when 3 superbowls were won by 3 points or less...

5/14/2008 2:17:14 PM