^^^ Christmas is a federal holiday--not winter, which is a season.

http://www.opm.gov/Operating_Status_Schedules/fedhol/2009.asp

If there were no Christmas, do you honestly think we'd be taking off about two weeks (at NCSU) at the end of the year to celebrate winter? Really?

And your point about winter solstice actually makes my point for me:

Quote :

"Christian Rätsch and Claudia Müller-Ebeling show how the ancient meaning of the botanical elements of Christmas provides a unique view of the religion that existed in Europe before the introduction of Christianity. The fir tree was originally revered as the sacred World Tree in northern Europe. When the church was unable to drive the tree cult out of people's consciousness, it incorporated the fir tree by dedicating it to the Christ child."

http://tinyurl.com/yhn66jc

The "Christmas" tree actually began as a pagan symbol. The fact that we now call it a "Christmas tree" is irrelevant to most at this point as it relates to religion--sort of like how "Santa Claus" started as "Saint Nicholas." I mean, do the vast majority of folks look at a tree decorated for the holidays and say, "Look! There's a Christ symbol!" The answer is, of course, self-evident.

[Edited on November 6, 2009 at 2:37 AM. Reason : .]

11/6/2009 2:36:33 AM

Fine Webster, humans have been celebrating the Winter Solstice longer than the incorrect date of Jesus' birth. Better?

11/6/2009 3:06:45 AM

It's true, Jesus is not the reason for the season. Using the 25th as his birthday is merely an extension of various pagan rituals that coincide with that time.

If it wasn't Christmas there'd probably be some other holiday around that time. Wait, actually there ARE other holidays around that time.

(BTW, I'm not anti-Christmas-in-advertising, I'm just tired of the "Jesus is the reason for the season" line I keep hearing every year).

11/6/2009 6:50:22 AM

Quote :

"^^^ Christmas is a federal holiday--not winter, which is a season. "

hooksaw appealing to federal authority lol

11/6/2009 9:21:38 AM

^^ Well he IS the reason for the season at this point. Its incorrect but his 'birth' day is why the majority of people who celebrate Christmas do it.

11/6/2009 9:23:48 AM

Christmas is my favorite holiday, but I don't get bent out of shape when someone substitutes the terminology. My advice for those that do get upset about this is to get the fuck over it.

11/6/2009 9:36:52 AM

Anyone tired of reading "In God We Trust" on their money, can give theirs to me.

I don't mind.

11/6/2009 9:44:14 AM

Bible belt conservatives have always claimed "We're a Christian nation". Well the truth is no one would give a shit about Christmas if it weren't for presents and time off work. Most people who celebrate Christmas only describe themselves as "Christians" because they do celebrate Christmas (and not vice versa). Also because terms like "Agnostic" and "Atheist" are scary.

Take away the presents and vacation and Christmas/Christianity will all but disappear from public view. Same goes for Easter and candy.

11/6/2009 10:37:51 AM

2nd-grader sent home for crucifix drawing
Dad says teacher became upset when boy drew himself on a cross
Dec . 15, 2009

Quote :

"TAUNTON, Mass. - An 8-year-old boy was sent home from school and ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation after he was asked to make a Christmas drawing and came up with what appeared to be a stick figure of Jesus on a cross, the child's father said Tuesday. Chester Johnson told WBZ-TV that his son made the drawing on Dec. 2 after his second-grade teacher asked children to sketch something that reminded them of the holiday. Johnson said the teacher became upset when his son said he drew himself on the cross. Johnson, who is black, told WBZ he suspects racism is involved. He said he thinks the school overreacted and wants an apology."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34433914/ns/us_news-education/?GT1=43001

Sweet Jesus.

(Pardon the pun.)

12/15/2009 7:59:57 PM

FAIL. The assignment was to draw something that reminds them of the current holiday season and the kid draws the crucifiction?!

Better luck next time, kid.

12/15/2009 8:04:17 PM

Quote :

"Johnson said the teacher became upset when his son said he drew himself on the cross. Johnson, who is black, told WBZ he suspects racism is involved. He said he thinks the school overreacted and wants an apology.” "

what is wrong with white people?

thanks for bringing this to our attention hooksaw

[Edited on December 15, 2009 at 8:06 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on December 15, 2009 at 8:06 PM. Reason : ]

12/15/2009 8:06:02 PM

This thread is almost as successful as the impressive economy thread.

12/15/2009 8:08:15 PM

This teacher obviously hates Christmas since she asked her kids to make drawings about Christmas.

12/15/2009 9:46:36 PM

Quote :

"Christmas is a federal holiday--not winter, which is a season. "

And we all know something doesn't count until it is a federal holiday.

Quote :

"If there were no Christmas, do you honestly think we'd be taking off about two weeks (at NCSU) at the end of the year to celebrate winter? Really?"

Why not? The winter solstice was important to an agricultural culture and we still base our primary school calendar off an agricultural cycle. Halloween, Easter, pretty much everything except those secular holidays established by government decree are in some fashion agriculturally based. Why would the solstice be the exception?

Quote :

"Johnson said the teacher became upset when his son said he drew himself on the cross. "

So was it Jesus or Johnson Jr? Or is Johnson Jr Jesus? Jesus Johnson Jr?

I'm not sure the teacher overreacted if the child drew a picture of himself being crucified. On the other hand, if the sacrifice of Jesus is what he thought of at Christmas then there was nothing inappropriate about his drawing albeit poorly timed by the standards of the Gregorian calendar.

12/15/2009 10:08:55 PM

the calendar has nothing to do with it. Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, not his death.

Easter is the celebration of his death and resurrection.

Hence, FAIL

[Edited on December 15, 2009 at 10:24 PM. Reason : .]

12/15/2009 10:24:25 PM

Merry Christmas!

12/16/2009 2:07:31 AM

^^ I suppose I just hold 8 year old children to a less rigorous theological standard than yourself.

12/16/2009 6:53:05 AM

Hey it's not that hard. It's the reason for the season guys!!

But seriously, this story has nothing to do with o'reilly and hooksaw's "War on Christmas." The teacher gave them an assignment to draw something that reminded them of Christmas afterall.

12/16/2009 7:51:26 AM

Quote :

"FAIL. The assignment was to draw something that reminds them of the current holiday season and the kid draws the crucifiction?! Better luck next time, kid."

Quote :

"the calendar has nothing to do with it. Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, not his death. Easter is the celebration of his death and resurrection. Hence, FAIL"

Except it is quite common for churches to talk just as much about the crucifixion at Christmas as they do the birth of Jesus.

Why?

Because within Christian theology, Christmas means absolutely nothing if Easter did not exist. The crucifixion, death, and resurrection is their entire reason for celebrating his birth. Additionally, that end point, in their minds, was the precise reason he was born in the first place.

If a pastor at his church had recently taught them about that, the drawing is entirely reasonable.

But, then, maybe I should hold you to a lower theological standard than an 8 year old.

[Edited on December 16, 2009 at 7:55 AM. Reason : a]

12/16/2009 7:52:24 AM

Go for it, you won't hurt my feelings.

12/16/2009 7:55:32 AM

or maybe the teacher thought it a little weird that the kid drew himself being crucified. i mean, that's a form or torture and all.

12/16/2009 7:59:06 AM

That's entirely too reasonable.

12/16/2009 8:03:46 AM

I love how hooksaw left out the part of the article where the school district responds. You know, the part where the school district disputes whether the drawing in the article is the actual drawing or whether such an assignment was even given in the first place.

I'm sure he thinks all the Christmas haters should be summarily executed regardless.

[Edited on December 16, 2009 at 9:21 AM. Reason : ]

12/16/2009 8:57:09 AM

^ I was just about to point that out.

Quote :

"The school district on Tuesday was rebutting the father's claims. The Taunton School District said in a written statement that the second-grade student was never suspended over the drawing. It also said a drawing circulated to reporters by the boy's father, Chester Johnson, is not the same one that was discovered by the teacher. The district says the boy's teacher never assigned students to draw something that reminded them of the holiday season, as Johnson told reporters. "

12/16/2009 9:26:50 AM

Ha, wtf is going on here then?

12/16/2009 9:54:35 AM

War On Black Jesus

12/16/2009 10:06:09 AM

I don't get it, why does it say he drew "himself" being crucified? It's a stick figure. And whoever he drew has long hair (like the classical image of Jesus) and considering it's a black kid I doubt he has hair like that.

And the school denies this was the reason he was suspended and forced to undergo psychological evaluation, but they don't give the actual reason.

12/16/2009 10:22:29 AM

Perhaps the kid had a deep-seated feel of a Roman conquest.

12/16/2009 11:43:52 AM

^^

We don't know the picture in the article is the actual drawing (read the article).

The school is limited by privacy concerns, so it's unlikely we'll ever hear the school's version of events in its entirety. According to the article however, the teacher became concerned when the boy drew X's for Jesus' eyes. The boy was then evaluated to make sure he didn't pose a danger to himself or others.

12/16/2009 12:36:02 PM

^ The use of Xs for eyes is quite common to represent dead or dazed characters.



The kid probably just saw it on TV.

BTW, on an indirectly related topic, the LED Christmas holiday lights are ugly as shit. . .

Lowe's 2007 catalog image vs. Lowe's 2008 catalog image



. . .and sometimes they're even dangerous:

Energy-efficient traffic lights can't melt snow
Dec 15, 2009

Quote :

"MILWAUKEE – Cities around the country that have installed energy-efficient traffic lights are discovering a hazardous downside: The bulbs don't burn hot enough to melt snow and can become crusted over in a storm — a problem blamed for dozens of accidents and at least one death."

Quote :

"Authorities in several states are testing possible solutions, including installing weather shields, adding heating elements like those used in airport runway lights, or coating the lights with water-repellent substances. Short of some kind of technological fix, 'as far as I'm aware, all that can be done is to have crews clean off the snow by hand,' said Green Bay, Wis., police Lt. Jim Runge. 'It's a bit labor-intensive.' "

Quote :

"'Would the accident have occurred if the lights had been clear? I would be willing to bet not,' Oswego police Detective Rob Sherwood said. Authorities said dozens of similar collisions have been reported in other cold-weather states, including Iowa and Minnesota."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_re_us/us_snow_covered_stoplights

Please note well that I am not saying energy-efficient lighting (LED or otherwise) shouldn't be a choice made available for residential and commercial use. I am saying (1) LED Christmas lights are ugly (no offense) and (2) the use of LED lights and otherwise has unintended consequences.

12/16/2009 1:07:53 PM

I like the LED traffic lights. They are brighter and transitions have a higher visual impact, getting more of your attention - the same reason LED tail-lights are better than halogen bulbs.

Also, they don't need to be replaced nearly as often. Ever since they replaced the halogen bulbs with LEDs, I haven't seen one traffic light with one bulb broken. I'm sure that caused far more accidents than the snow-covered LEDs.

12/16/2009 1:19:53 PM

^ As I indicated, I'm not against LED and other energy-efficient lighting being available as choices. I toured (parts of) the CREE facility in Durham earlier this year and spoke at length with a company rep and was impressed by it.

Concerning LED's aesthetic qualities, nobody in my neighborhood is using LED--except one home. And I just don't find LED pleasing for Christmas lighting.

12/16/2009 1:31:57 PM

Screw your new-fangled Light Emitting Diodes!

And your fancy incandescent light bulbs!

We only use candles at our house!

12/16/2009 3:41:27 PM

^ You can't--they might be toxic:

Quote :

"Q. Are candles made with 'natural' ingredients or essential oils safer? A. A natural ingredient, as opposed to a manufactured or synthesized ingredient, is not necessarily any safer. In fact, scores of natural ingredients are known to be extremely toxic to humans in very small amounts. NCA members are committed to manufacturing candles that use ingredients known to be safe and approved for use in candles, whether 'natural' or synthesized."

Quote :

"Q. Are scented candles triggers for asthma or allergies? A. Although millions of Americans regularly use scented candles without any negative effects, it is always possible that a particular fragrance might trigger a negative reaction in sensitive individuals. Individuals with known sensitivities to specific fragrances may want to avoid candles of those scents. In addition, consumers should remember to burn all candles, whether scented or unscented, in a well-ventilated area."

http://www.candles.org/about_faq.html

12/16/2009 4:51:38 PM

lol at thread redirection

12/16/2009 5:02:52 PM

When I own a house I would love to decorate my home with LEDs but they are just too damned expensive at the moment. As a staunch advocate of energy savings at least people seem to be phasing out those C-9s!

You want to know who hates Christmas? This woman. . . .http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/putting-christ-your-christmas-tree-literally

12/16/2009 6:46:17 PM

Happy Holidays everyone!

12/17/2009 11:01:04 AM

Christians need to pause and reflect whenever they feel Christmas is being co-opted by secular influences.

After all, wasn't it the Christians who basically assigned the Christmas holiday to the winter solstice? Christians co-opted and ruined the pagan's favorite holiday with their solemn buzzkill of an observance.

12/17/2009 11:10:05 PM

Couldn't care less about displays on the public land or dime. As long as I get to do my thing, I'm happy. And my thing includes saying merry fucking christmas, instead of that happy holidays bullshit. I see absolutely no reason to be upset about a town using snowflakes instead of nativities.

12/18/2009 1:21:34 AM

Quote :

"Please note well that I am not saying energy-efficient lighting (LED or otherwise) shouldn't be a choice made available for residential and commercial use. I am saying (1) LED Christmas lights are ugly (no offense) and (2) the use of LED lights and otherwise has unintended consequences."

We have twinkling multi-color LED christmas lights on our tree and I like em. They're bright as hell and light up the whole room when you turn off the other lights. Granted, you have to run some of the green ones up or into the tree because they're a little too bright.

12/18/2009 9:54:56 AM

Oh, the weather outside is frightful
But the far-left moonbats are spiteful
And since we've no place to go
Let 'em troll! Let 'em troll! Let 'em troll!

12/19/2009 3:46:00 AM

Quote :

"Peace on Earth in Our Time The "war on Christmas" is basically over. By Christopher Beam Posted Thursday, Dec. 17, 2009, at 7:20 PM ET While President Obama has decided to send 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan, he has overseen a precipitous de-escalation on another front: the war on Christmas. The debates that have raged in years past—"Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays"? "Christmas tree" or "holiday tree"?—have largely quieted down in 2009. While it's impossible to quantify, there are plenty of pseudoscientific indicators to suggest that, yes, the war on Christmas, with or without quotation marks, is over. Or at least in cease-fire. Because the furor was media-driven in the first place, media mentions seem as good a metric as any. After 2005, Google Trends shows a continuous decline in searches for and mentions of the "war on Christmas." Media mentions of a "war on Christmas" have fallen steadily as well, according to Nexis: There were 431 articles mentioning it as of Dec. 17, 2006; 187 by that time in 2007; 155 in 2008; and 97 in 2009. Even Fox News, the network that pushed the story in the winter of 2005, has essentially stopped talking about it: At this time in 2005, Fox had aired 80 episodes explicitly referring to the "war on Christmas"; in 2006, there were 24; in 2007, 11; in 2008, five; and three so far this year. The departure in 2008 of Fox News host John Gibson, who penned The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot To Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought, may have had something to do with it. As a result, some groups dedicated to secularism and the separation of church and state—the anti-Christmas warriors—have gotten fewer invitations to debate the issue on radio and TV. "I usually get called on once or twice every season to talk on Fox News or talk radio," says David Silverman, national communications director of American Atheists. "I haven't been called once this season." There's also been a sharp decline in demand for the group's president, Ed Buckner. Rob Boston of Americans United for Separation of Church and State echoed Silverman: "There hasn't been the same amount of interest," he said. Perhaps one reason for the decline is that several recent "War on Christmas" horror stories turn out to be less than compelling. For example, Rep. Henry Brown, R-S.C., introduced a resolution calling for an effort to protect the sanctity of Christmas. The reason: The Obamas' holiday card doesn't mention Christmas. "I believe that sending a Christmas card without referencing a holiday and its purpose limits the Christmas celebration in favor of a more 'politically correct' holiday," Brown explained. What he doesn't mention is that President Bush's card in 2008 didn't mention Christmas, either (although it did include a Biblical passage). Needless to say, Brown did not introduce a resolution then. Another recent story alleged that a school in Taunton, Mass., suspended a second-grader and required him to undergo psychological evaluation because when the teacher asked the class to draw something that reminded them of Christmas, the boy drew a picture of Jesus on the cross. The child's father cried religious bias. As it turns out, the boy was not suspended and the teacher had referred the child to psychological services because he had identified the person on the cross as himself. The teacher feared it might be a cry for help. Defenders of Christmas also cried foul when Obama's announcement of new troops to Afghanistan bumped A Charlie Brown Christmas. As Glenn Beck noted, that show includes "one of the most politically incorrect scenes on TV," in which Linus recounts the story of the nativity. "Maybe we should put everything back in its rightful place and listen to messages that actually mean something," Beck suggested. That doesn't mean some groups aren't still doing their darndest to protect the holiday from ecumenical creep. Both the American Family Association and Focus on the Family have started rating national retailers based on their Christmas-friendliness. For example, according to AFA's "Naughty or Nice" list, Costco is "for" Christmas, the Gap and Best Buy "marginalize" the holiday, and CVS and Victoria's Secret are "against" Christmas. (I just bought candy canes at CVS, so I don't quite get it.) Focus on the Family's Stand for Christmas site allows customers to rate the stores themselves. One customer calls Wal-mart "Christmas-friendly" because the company "pointedly says Merry Christmas in all of their television ads." Another called it "Christmas-offensive" because one of its stores didn't sell nativity scenes. Conservative Christian groups also took offense at a recent Gap ad that made a point of giving equal time to various holidays. "As a Christian, I don't put Christmas on the same plane as winter solstice," said Carrie Gordon Earll, a spokeswoman for Focus on the Family. "It kind of felt like a poke in the eye." There's a distinction, of course, between the "war on Christmas"—essentially a media story pitting aggressive Christmas celebrators against people of other faiths, agnostic Christians, and the occasional atheist—and disputes about the separation of church and state. The latter are going strong. A crèche was recently removed from public property in a suburb of Cincinnati after it caused a stir. Both a nativity scene and a menorah were taken off a courthouse lawn in Luzerne County, Pa., after a warning from the American Civil Liberties Union. A federal judge in Arkansas, meanwhile, allowed a display of secular "freethinkers" to appear alongside various religious symbols at the State Capitol. Those kinds of disputes persist, says Sean Faircloth of the Secular Coalition for America, but they get eclipsed by the "war on Christmas" hype. "Once the novelty of its inherent silliness wears off, people might return to Constitution," he says. He may get his wish. Just as the "war on Christmas" has obscured legitimate debate over church and state, other national issues seem to be overwhelming the "war on Christmas." Health care reform, climate change talks, and tax breaks for bankers provide plenty of fuel for conservative anger—and eat up plenty of air time. And perhaps Obama is diffusing some of the fear that his election would usher in an era of secular humanism. A devout Christian, he has continued many of the religious traditions of his predecessor, including the National Day of Prayer. Then there's the rise of third-way groups like the Advent Conspiracy, which embraces the religious aspects of Christmas but rejects the consumerism surrounding it. (Watch their promo video here.) Rather than a war on Christmas, they're fighting a war for Christmas. Because even the holiday's biggest supporters agree that it could be a lot merrier."

[Edited on December 19, 2009 at 10:41 AM. Reason : .]

12/19/2009 10:22:57 AM

Quote :

"Another recent story alleged that a school in Taunton, Mass., suspended a second-grader and required him to undergo psychological evaluation because when the teacher asked the class to draw something that reminded them of Christmas, the boy drew a picture of Jesus on the cross. The child's father cried religious bias. As it turns out, the boy was not suspended and the teacher had referred the child to psychological services because he had identified the person on the cross as himself. The teacher feared it might be a cry for help."

Ah, yes. The same story hooksaw foisted upon us and then hid from using LED Christmas trees.

[Edited on December 19, 2009 at 10:34 AM. Reason : ]

12/19/2009 10:34:36 AM

Quote :

"At this time in 2005, Fox had aired 80 episodes explicitly referring to the "war on Christmas"; in 2006, there were 24; in 2007, 11; in 2008, five; and three so far this year. The departure in 2008 of Fox News host John Gibson, who penned The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot To Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought, may have had something to do with it."

Just maybe

This was entirely media-created. And guys like hooksaw gobbled it up.

12/19/2009 12:03:57 PM

I find it odd that the companies prefer to say happy holidays and not merry christmas. The term holidays is derived from holydays.

And Christmas is the proper term for the season. If you don't want to celebrate Christmas then don't. Noone is forcing you to celebrate it but don't get mad at the hundreds of millions of others that do celebrate.

[Edited on December 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM. Reason : .]

12/19/2009 3:55:25 PM

I'm not Christian

I'm not festive

I couldn't care less about the secularization of the holiday (or its inherent secular beginnings)

I couldn't care less about the leftists who bitch about the ties to Christ's birth

I'm just glad I get to see my entire family, and eat well.

12/19/2009 4:16:07 PM

Quote :

"Christmas is the proper term for the season."

hahaha

12/19/2009 4:21:20 PM

Quote :

"Christmas is the proper term for the season"

Actually, Winter (starting Dec. 21st), is the proper term for the season. But thanks for playing.

12/19/2009 5:52:57 PM

I'm all for taking the Christ out of Christmas. It wasn't their holiday in the first place, and they've tried to suck all the fun out of it with their crappy traditions. Instead of feasting and getting drunk around the yule log, they'd rather have me eating stale crackers and sipping an ounce of cheap wine at Mass. Even Christ would carlface if he saw just how solemn Christian traditions have become. After all, this is a man who turned water into wine to keep the party going, and he took a couple fish and five loaves of bread and created appetizers for one of his gatherings. That sounds like a man who knew how to party. I bet the one thing he wouldn't do is sit around bitching about the Jews, Muslims, and Pagans for having different religious holidays they want to celebrate.

12/19/2009 7:44:41 PM

Well, I'll be wishing people a "Merry Christmyth" myself.

12/19/2009 10:09:40 PM