Quote :

"did anyone happen to notice that the whole foundation of our government is mutual support aka "subsidization?""

Sadly..this idea is probably held by a lot of ill-informed Americans.

The goal of the founders was to create a gov't which recognized and protected individual rights for gov't tyranny. They laid out basic duties of the federal gov't to provide a common defence and provide for the welfare of the entire nation...not the welfare of one person or group at the espense of another person or group.

12/8/2007 10:29:46 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/10/huckabee.sc/index.html

Quote :

"Republican pack in South Carolina, largely on the strength of social conservatives frustrated with the crop of candidates."

Fuck this dude, what about the libertarian minded or moderate republicans tired of the turds currently leading the GOP pandering to the evangelicals or the Neo-Con base. I would vote for a GOP candidate more concerned about conservative economic issues and fiscal responsibilities, who does NOT give a shit if Antonio and Pierre get married or nation building.

[Edited on December 10, 2007 at 9:59 AM. Reason : a]

12/10/2007 9:58:10 AM

If only Ron Paul didn't hate homos!

12/10/2007 11:53:43 AM

but his view is it is not the federal governments job to make decisions on homosexuality

12/10/2007 1:27:05 PM

yea i mean, hes basically being honest and saying how he feels, but at the same time hes saying that it is not a federal issue on whether homosexuals can get married.

i think that if you agree with most everything else he stands for this should be a hard view of his to let deter you from supporting him.

I refuse to base an election on same sex marriage which should NOT be a federal issue as Ron Paul has said. there are things 10x more important than that for a president to be elected for.

12/10/2007 1:32:03 PM

I honestly do not give a fuck what fairy's do. In my mind it is a distraction used by politicians to elicit emotion and draw attention from issues that count.

Why mention your complex economic plan or goals for Iraq, when you can say "Gay Marriage" and have all your ignorant working class constituents get into an uproar of conservative religious right furor.

12/10/2007 1:53:34 PM

pretty much

12/10/2007 2:45:47 PM

Quote :

"Gay Rights: Paul's rigid, uncompromising libertarianism leads him to take a number of positions that liberals find objectionable or even reprehensible but which should not in themselves be taken as ipso facto evidence of bigotry. His reflexive opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, for example, is consistent with libertarian positions on federalism and the right of the individual to be free from government "coercion," even if that means limiting the ability of minorities to seek employment and housing free from discrimination. Still, libertarian orthodoxy can't fully explain Paul's hostility to gay rights, and indeed to gay people in general. The Libertarian Party, which nominated Paul as its presidential candidate in 1988, has strongly opposed the so-called Defense of Marriage Act from the beginning; Paul supports it. While he opposed the "Federal Marriage Amendment" that would have outlawed gay marriage everywhere, he actually cosponsored the odious "Marriage Protection Act," which would nonsensically bar federal courts from considering challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act, which is a federal law. "The definition of marriage--a union between a man and a woman--can be found in any dictionary," he writes condescendingly. Despite Paul's disingenuous claims that he is a "strict constitutionalist," most legal scholars agree that the so-called Marriage Protection Act would be unconstitutional. You also will not find Paul listed among the 124 co-sponsors of the Military Readiness Enhancement Act of 2007, which would repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" policy barring gays and lesbians from serving in the military. Maybe he's worried that they'll take their "gay agenda" to far-flung corners of the world. He also doesn't want gay people adopting children while they're not serving in the military, either. On a personal level, we have this 1993 quote wherein Paul equates homosexuality with "sexual deviance." And let's not forget his wink-wink characterization of Hillary Clinton as "a far leftist with very close female friends"."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/5/193414/2787

Obviously dailykos is biased, but if you follow the link you'll find the sources to each statement.

12/10/2007 2:51:54 PM

But back to the ol' Huckster:
Back to Huckabee:

Quote :

"In August of 1998, Huckabee was one of 131 signatories to a full page USA Today Ad which declared: "I affirm the statement on the family issued by the 1998 Southern Baptist Convention." What was in the family statement from the SBC? "A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ.""

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=2510

This probably doesn't bother any of his core demo, but it sure as shit is troubling to me.

12/10/2007 3:30:35 PM

Context anyone? The statement from which this doctrine comes from is in Ephesians:

Quote :

"For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish."

So the Husband's responsibility within the context is to love as Christ loves the church (ie: all the way to the point of sacrificing one's own life)

Since then the SBC has slightly modified their stance on this anyway:

Quote :

"Article XVIII. The Family. The husband and wife are of equal worth before God, since both are created in God's image. The marriage relationship models the way God relates to his people. A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. She, being in the image of God as is her husband and thus equal to him, has the God-given responsibility to respect her husband and to serve as his helper in managing the household and nurturing the next generation."

Besides... are the SBC statements intended by the SBC to impact government? Or are they just statements about what they believe to be correct within the church?

12/10/2007 4:33:19 PM

And now the Huckster does a flip-flop on Cuba policy!

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-huckabee11dec11,0,5055587.story?coll=la-home-center

It's a little lengthy to post verbatim, so the highlights:

Quote :

"MIAMI -- As governor of Arkansas five years ago, Mike Huckabee joined a bipartisan chorus of politicians who concluded that the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba was bad for businesses. Now that he's a top-tier candidate for president, Huckabee has decided he favors the embargo -- so much so that he vowed Monday to outdo even President Bush in strangling the regime of Cuban President Fidel Castro and punishing those who do business there."

Quote :

"Huckabee's Cuba flip-flop comes just days after he released a new, hard-line plan on illegal immigration described as "radical" by some of the same immigrant-rights advocates who once lauded him for more liberal views. As governor, Huckabee supported in-state college tuition for children of illegal immigrants and stood up for illegal workers caught in a raid of a meatpacking plant. Now he wants all illegal immigrants to return to their native countries within 120 days. Huckabee all but acknowledged the political expediency of his shifting views as he stood Monday in a Cuban restaurant in Miami and explained why he wrote a letter to Bush in 2002 describing how the Cuba trade embargo was hurting Arkansas rice growers. "Rather than seeing it as some huge change, I would call it, rather, the simple reality that I'm running for president of the United States, not for reelection as governor of Arkansas," he said. "I've got to look at this as an issue that touches the whole country.""

Quote :

" The letter Huckabee wrote in 2002 reportedly argued that the embargo "continues to harm our own agricultural and business interests here at home and has certainly not helped the people of Cuba." His views on Monday were equally firm in the opposite direction, as he vowed, if elected president, to veto any effort to end the sanctions."

So folks, WWJE? (Who Would Jesus Embargo?)

12/11/2007 3:01:47 PM

how is romney not doing more harm than good by going negative against huckabee

12/11/2007 6:02:37 PM

Romney is a sinking ship, and hopefully he will take Huckabee down with him.

Huckabee represents everything that I hate about the GOP.

If either Romney or Huckabee is nominated, I'm voting democrat no matter what. I don't care if Kucinich is the nominee

12/11/2007 6:35:40 PM

personally i would love it if the mormon or the jesus freak would run against the negro

12/11/2007 6:43:30 PM

From 1997:

Quote :

"The Arkansas Legislature scrambled today to rewrite a bill intended to protect storm victims after Gov. Mike Huckabee, a Baptist minister, objected to language describing such natural phenomena as tornadoes and floods as "acts of God." Mr. Huckabee said that signing the legislation "would be violating my own conscience" inasmuch as it described "a destructive and deadly force as being 'an act of God.'" The Governor, a Republican, said the legislation was an otherwise worthy bill with objectives he shared."

http://tinyurl.com/3bcxc7

12/11/2007 10:10:26 PM

doesnt that mean hes an atheist or something?

12/11/2007 10:16:31 PM

Quote :

" Sadly..this idea is probably held by a lot of ill-informed Americans."

Sadly, there are people who call themselves Libertarians (of the friendly neighborhood variety) who aren't capable of carrying on a reasonable discussion on a message board, much less winning over real people.

If you want to talk down to me, then bring it. But don't post this crap. Half the kids still in college posting here are already above your level.

12/13/2007 1:02:15 AM

Looks like he stirred up some trouble with Romney.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/magazine/16huckabee.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

Quote :

"I was about to jot down this piece of boilerplate when Huckabee surprised me with a question of his own: ‘‘Don’t Mormons,’’ he asked in an innocent voice, ‘‘believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?’’"

Of course he apologized:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/12/512944.aspx

12/13/2007 9:21:33 AM

Quote :

"Huckabee represents everything that I hate about the GOP. If either Romney or Huckabee is nominated voting democrat no matter what"

Exactly. I did really like Romney's responses concerning economic issues in the GOP debate though so i'd rate him over HuckaCrap. Either way I think Romney is to socially conservative for me to vote for and even though mormon would carry on legislated morality like his predecessor George W

[Edited on December 13, 2007 at 9:57 AM. Reason : aa]

12/13/2007 9:56:54 AM

Good interview with Huck about the economy, fair tax, immigration, ect :

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/12/huckabee_on_money_politics.html

12/13/2007 10:41:48 PM

fuck hckabee and fuck his christian dogma platform. Just what this country needs another closed minded right-wing Christian pulling the ropes and leading more crusades in the middle east.

12/14/2007 2:56:05 PM

Huckabee appeals to zealots in flock
BONNIE ERBE

Quote :

"If you happen to be walking behind presidential aspirant Mike Huckabee, you might see a small trail of blood and hear a scraping sound. That's because his knuckles are dragging. This darling of the evangelical right has proven himself to be every bit the caveman we mainstreamers believe him to be. Of course, that's all the more likely to increase his appeal to the zealots in his flock. But should he win the GOP presidential nomination (every Democrats' cosmic fantasy), it would make him disastrously unelectable in the general election."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/343498_erbe14.html

Here's yet another [sarcasm]top-notch editorial[/sarcasm] from a far-left loon at the far-left Seattle P-I rag. And this kook is a "mainstreamer"? Hardly. Even the People's Republic of Seattle shouldn't put up with this shit.

I'm not supporting Huckabee for president, but this "piece" is outrageous.

12/14/2007 10:11:08 PM

So, your point in posting this is... what, exactly?

12/14/2007 10:17:25 PM

i honestly believe he was trying to impersonate bill oreilly on the internet

12/14/2007 10:31:09 PM

ZOMG SOMEBODY EXPRESSED AN OPINION ON THE OPINION PAGE!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!11!!!ONE

SINCE I DISAGREE WITH THE MANNER IN WHICH SAID OPINION WAS EXPRESSED, THEIR POINT MUST BE ENTIRELY INVALID. FURTHERMORE, THE EXPRESSER OF SAID OPINION MUST BE A WORTHLESS BAG OF SHIT. ALL THAT DISAGREE WITH ME ARE WRONG.

THAT IS ALL. CARRY ON WITH YOUR MISERABLE EXISTENCES.

12/14/2007 10:41:51 PM

Huckabee isn't a caveman. That's preposterous.

Cavemen didn't exist. Right, Huck?

12/15/2007 12:01:02 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316916,00.html

12/15/2007 12:44:10 AM

^

Quote :

"In one specific criticism, Huckabee said Bush did not send enough troops to invade Iraq. And he accused the president of marginalizing Gen. Eric Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, who said at the outset of the war that it might take several hundred thousand U.S. troops to control Iraq after the invasion. "I would have met with Shinseki privately and carefully weighed his advice," Huckabee said."

Right - maybe if we'd just sent more troops, we'd have been able to find those elusive WMDs! (Remember those? Anyone? Bueller?)

12/15/2007 12:48:45 AM

Quote :

"fuck hckabee and fuck his christian dogma platform. Just what this country needs another closed minded right-wing Christian pulling the ropes and leading more crusades in the middle east. "

Like usual, great contribution to the discussion. Notice how in your Ron Paul thread, I was actually able to have a civil conversation. You are just giving you are your fellow libs a bad name, so keep it up.

12/15/2007 12:50:05 AM

Quote :

"Right - maybe if we'd just sent more troops, we'd have been able to find those elusive WMDs! (Remember those? Anyone? Bueller?) "

WHoa! Haven't heard that one before! Everyone knows the "WMDs" was a fuck-up. You can't tell me that having more troops on the ground wouldn't have made the war much more successful, much faster. At least Huck is admitting that Bush fucked up. I mean I swear, anything someone like Huck says is just automatically "neo-con right wing christian propoganda blah blah". If he says something positive about Bush, you would say "Oh, well voting for him is for for Geroge W Jr.! hardy har har!!". Now that he has come out and criticized Bush, it's: oh, "well WMD this and WMD that!" Try opening your eyes for once instead of looking at the R or D beside someone's name.

12/15/2007 12:56:54 AM

Quote :

"Now that he has come out and criticized Bush, it's: oh, "well WMD this and WMD that!" Try opening your eyes for once instead of looking at the R or D beside someone's name."

Consider, for a moment, that the salient criticism might be that our dim bulb Huck is missing the goddamned point entirely (yet again). Seeing as there weren't any WMD's, maybe the bigger issue instead of being an armchair general might be to actually go out and a limb and posit that invading was a dumb idea in the first place. Instead of quibbling over the details of how to implement a fundamentally dumb idea.

But hey - I'm just not able to get past some "D" or "R" thing, or something. Despite the fact that I don't associate with either camp.

12/15/2007 1:04:39 AM

Quote :

"FAITH AND POLITICS My faith is my life - it defines me. My faith doesn't influence my decisions, it drives them. For example, when it comes to the environment, I believe in being a good steward of the earth. I don't separate my faith from my personal and professional lives."

I can't get behind this. I'd rather have someone who will put practical decision-making ahead of religion every single time rather than someone who puts religious beliefs first and hopes that they will also be practical.

12/15/2007 1:26:12 AM

Quote :

"You are just giving you are your fellow libs a bad name, so keep it up."

Get your facts right Redstains441 Shitstains441 just b.c i do not put a crafty W sticker on the back of my car, disagree with the war in Iraq, and do not approve of GOP candidates who put the agenda of the Christian Right does not make me a fucking liberal.

While I respect the ideas of some liberals for their more humanistic conservationist idea; i take a more realistic approach. I tend to agree strongly with the GOP on economics but I shit on the delegation of social values and Christian dogma that many GOP candidates like Bush perpetuate (war on drugs, anti-gambling, tight FCC regulations, etc). I prefer more moderate and libertarian minded republicans like Ron Paul, McCain, Giuliani. The latter two would easily have my vote if not for their "pro-war" attitude. but no i do not sport Huckabee and think a Chimpanzee would do better as president.

12/15/2007 12:46:39 PM

Namecalling!? Gosh, you sure did hurt my feelings!!

Once again, typical.

12/15/2007 10:54:38 PM

Quote :

" [W]hen he was pressed on whether he would continue certain practices he began in the Arkansas state house, such as a Christian Heritage Week or hanging the Ten Commandments in his office, Huckabee said, “[I] don’t know why I wouldn’t.” […] As for the Ten Commandments in the Oval Office, “the Ten Commandments are in the Supreme Court,” Huckabee said, adding that he “wouldn’t hesitate” to hang them in the White House. “The Ten Commandments form the basis of most of our laws and therefore, you know if you look through them does anybody find anything there that would be all that objectionable? I don’t think most people would if they actually read them,” he said."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/21/530000.aspx
I love the assertion that the 10 Commandments are both universal and inoffensive. And that they're the basis of most of our laws? Come on.

As for the Supreme Court:

Quote :

"Here’s the story: there’s a frieze just below the ceiling in the court’s main chamber that depicts the evolution of the law over the past several centuries. As part of the decorative horizontal band, there’s a depiction of Moses cradling two tablets, which is obviously meant to represent the Ten Commandments. Does this mean the Commandments are “in the Supreme Court”? Hardly. The text of the Decalogue isn’t even part of the frieze. Besides, Moses is hardly the only figure on the display. Also included are Confucius, Mohammad, the Old Testament’s Solomon and Hammurabi, founder of the ancient Babylonian Empire. (Ironically, Hammurabi is depicted being given his famous law code by Shamash, the Babylonian sun god, meaning that the sole depiction of a deity at the high court is a Pagan god.) The frieze also contains non-religious figures who shaped the law, such as Napoleon, Charlemagne and ancient Greek and Roman figures. The clear purpose of the frieze is to educate about how the law developed, not endorse religion or state that U.S. law is based on a specific religious code."

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14013.html

12/23/2007 2:50:27 PM

http://www.mikehuckabeeforum.com/

This forum has a lot of good information about him.

12/23/2007 4:54:11 PM

is it unbiased?

12/23/2007 8:02:12 PM

Quote :

"I love the assertion that the 10 Commandments are both universal and inoffensive. And that they're the basis of most of our laws? Come on."

in the western world, they are absolutely one of the foundations of the law, especially in contract law.


^is anything?

[Edited on December 23, 2007 at 10:21 PM. Reason : i mean seriously you're not going to find unbiased information at this stage]

12/23/2007 10:21:14 PM

For starters, commandments 1-4 (or 1-3) for the people who number them, even there is no real basis for said numbering:

Quote :

"Exodus 20:2–17 2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; 3 Do not have any other gods before Me. 4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, 6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments. 7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name. 8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work. 10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it."

So....yeah.

12/23/2007 11:25:03 PM

i want huckabee to win iowa...as someone thats probably only going to vote for either barack obama or john mccain, if huck wins, romney is severly fucked, and huck wont win the whole thing anyways, and thompson lost all his voters to huck anyways...and guliani wont get the nod cause he is too liberal on social issues, so that leaves mccain to come in and run the country...plus if you think about it...you should vote for a pres you feel will make america better than it currently is...why vote for a pres you think wont make it better than it currently is...so mccain or obama are obvious choices

12/23/2007 11:46:10 PM

Quote :

"ZOMG SOMEBODY EXPRESSED AN OPINION ON THE OPINION PAGE!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!11!!!ONE SINCE I DISAGREE WITH THE MANNER IN WHICH SAID OPINION WAS EXPRESSED, THEIR POINT MUST BE ENTIRELY INVALID. FURTHERMORE, THE EXPRESSER OF SAID OPINION MUST BE A WORTHLESS BAG OF SHIT. ALL THAT DISAGREE WITH ME ARE WRONG. THAT IS ALL. CARRY ON WITH YOUR MISERABLE EXISTENCES."

Right on Brah!!!

Quote :

"Consider, for a moment, that the salient criticism might be that our dim bulb Huck is missing the goddamned point entirely (yet again). Seeing as there weren't any WMD's, maybe the bigger issue instead of being an armchair general might be to actually go out and a limb and posit that invading was a dumb idea in the first place. Instead of quibbling over the details of how to implement a fundamentally dumb idea."

agreed

12/24/2007 1:59:44 AM

Quote :

"Huckabee's muzzle control problem by Jim Tankersley Republican Mike Huckabee took his presidential campaign for a quick pheasant-hunting expedition in Iowa on Wednesday, and at one point, a reporter asked why he hadn’t invited sporting enthusiast Dick Cheney along. "Because I want to survive all the way through this," Huckabee replied, in a chuckling dig at the vice president’s accidental shooting of a quail-hunting partner last year. Any good sportsman, though, couldn’t miss a distinctly Cheneyesque moment in the press accounts of the former Arkansas governor’s morning hunt: At one point, Huckabee’s party turned toward a cluster of reporters and cameramen and, when they kicked up a pheasant, fired shotgun blasts over the group’s heads. This, friends, is dangerously bad hunting form. Your Swamp correspondent, the son of a longtime hunter education instructor, grew up plying the corn rows and stream banks of rural Oregon with a Labrador retriever and a Mossberg 20-gauge pump shotgun. On our hunts for pheasant, grouse and quail, merely swinging a gun barrel in the general direction of another person was grounds for day-long banishment to the truck (which smelled like wet dog). Suffice to say, if any of our hunting mates had pulled a stunt like Huckabee’s yesterday, we never would have invited them back. It’s the sort of behavior that drives safety-conscious hunters up the wall, because it reinforces a reckless, gun-totin’ stereotype."

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/huckabees_muzzle_control_probl.html

NIIIICE

12/28/2007 12:04:30 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/huckabee.foreign.policy/index.html


So apparently huckabee is less competent than Bush when it comes to international issues. How could he not realize that martial law was lifted weeks ago?


*sigh*

12/28/2007 4:09:07 PM

Huckabee / Edwards '08

12/28/2007 4:16:13 PM

^^ he's had several such incidents

12/28/2007 6:07:36 PM

good grief, he is on the campaign trail, how horrible he has not kept up to date with the day to day news in Pakistan. If this is the biggest gaffe then it is no wonder he is ahead in the polls.

12/28/2007 9:50:17 PM

Sorry, but if a man with a host of aides cannot keep up with one of the top news story in international politics then he has no business being president.

12/28/2007 10:14:57 PM

^

12/28/2007 11:53:19 PM

just stick with the real reasons you guys dislike Huckabee, there is no need to make a mountain out a molehill when there are plenty of real objectionable aspects about Huckabee

- his immigration stance
- his pardoning record
- the cuba thing
- his openmindedness about creation science
- his support of the fair tax
- any number of overtly socially conservative comments
- surely you could add more...

Now I don't mind a number of the items above, but many of you do so why not focus on that instead of this stupidity.

[Edited on December 29, 2007 at 12:31 AM. Reason : .]

12/29/2007 12:31:00 AM

^I am getting pretty tired of the Christian Right playing the victim card.

12/29/2007 12:51:09 AM