dammit people I said healthcare was for another topic and another time. do you not listen!!!??

Quote :

"big blow for obama. hillary was the favorite before the the primaries started, and now she is again the favorite. people are going to start questioning whether obama is really viable or just another howard dean. "

Do you work for Fox/CNN/MSNBC? Because thats nonsensical if you step back 7 days ago where Hillary was the one to beat all along. MSM has continuously given Iowa and NH too much weight in these elections where they then plug them how they shouldn't matter.

Dean didn't even win a state. Hillary was the favorite in NH for over a year. Obama could have gotten lucky. But none of this means either are dead after their losses.



[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 10:32 AM. Reason : Page 4 wonders if Huckabee will really choose Colbert as VP?]

1/9/2008 10:31:28 AM

Quote :

"There are many ways to help the poor without giving them subsidies or handouts. ...Bailing this family our encourages people to make these bad decisions. ...Just get the govt out of healthcare."

Very true. Forcing insurance companies to provide policies to uninsurable people will eventually ruin the insurance industry...leaving us begging for socialized medicine.

1/9/2008 10:39:53 AM

Health insurance really isn't that bad IF you are a healthy, young person. When I got my individual plan, I was actually given a lower rate ($96)for living a "healthy lifestyle" according to my physical, but I've known people with histories of mental illness who were quoted at 800 dollars a month for an individual plan. It's not like you choose to get sick or ill. That's obviously ridiculous, and it should stop.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 12:49 PM. Reason : j]

1/9/2008 12:49:05 PM

No, but you can choose to live a healthy lifestyle and are given an incentive to do so by saving money.

Health ins, like auto insurance, is always more expensive after an event/accident.

However, you could always pay..gasp..cash. The insurance should be for the big things.

Quote :

"100 bucks a month cheap? wow What about the significant and necessary sector of society making less than 2k a month? That would be a large chunk of their paycheck. But that is off topic."

I wonder how many of those have cable tv and cell phones. Its all about priorities. The mindset in this country is my money is for things I want. If i need something it should be given to me. Its sad actually.

1/9/2008 1:03:28 PM

Yeah, but in some cases you just can't help the conditions you develop. If you have a mental disorder, you more than likely didn't bring that on yourself.....as well as cancer and some other conditions.....I just think the pre-existing condition thing is a little harsh and unnecessary.

1/9/2008 1:08:01 PM

^mental disorders would probably qualify you for disability so you would get medicare/medicaid for free.

The majority of the increase is simply due to lifestyle, although we dont like to hear it.

1/9/2008 1:23:29 PM

Quote :

"The majority of the increase is simply due to lifestyle, although we dont like to hear it."

Yeah, I guess you're right but that seems to me like even more reason for our gov't to step in and start pushing preventative care and helping our citizens with their healthcare. I've just been given a lot of opportunities in life, and it's gotta be hard for those who haven't.

[Edited on January 9, 2008 at 1:41 PM. Reason : a]

1/9/2008 1:41:00 PM

^brett I agree with preventitive care. However, what we have seen is just the opposite. You have taken away the repercussions of bad decisions and lifestyles with alot of these govt programs so the people just continue to do the easy/wrong things. You have our "poor' population is our most obese, and many are given insurance, housing, childcare, etc...

You have to be careful not to equate insurance with healthy. Alot of healthy people dont have insurance because they view it as a waste bc they are healthy. So they take that risk. However, there would be NO incentive to buy your own insurance if the govt steps in and bails out everyone bad decisions when thier risks dont pan out. Just look at the mortgage bs.

Ive used this example alot. In the past when people PAID for thier healthcare. Doctors made housecalls and people were forced to take care of themselves. For example. If a doctor told you you were prediabetic and either needed to watch what you eat, lose 10lbs or have to go on medicine that cost 100/month. People made the lifestyle changes. Now, there are no consequences. People, by nature, are lazy. Given that same situation, but now you can alter your lifestyle or take a pill once a day, that you dont even have to pay for. Are we surprised that they continue to get worse and require more and more medicine? And the costs rise and rise.

See my point?

Look if I could pop a pill and get a sixpack, hell yeah I would take it over working out. Who wouldnt. Changing a lifestyle is hard, esp when you take away the consequences to do so.

1/9/2008 1:51:48 PM

No, I totally see your point. People don't learn change unless it causes real consequences in their lives, but I just don't think the current system is working very well.

1/9/2008 2:04:32 PM

^ why?

1/9/2008 2:10:32 PM

I dont either. However, thats because the govt provides over 50% of healthcare now. Youll find those with medicare/medicaid to be getting worse.

I have this streetwanderer who stops in complaining of her eyes so she can get a free sample. But I have to see her, so instead of her paying 5 bucks for some artificial tears, it costs taxpayers 60 bucks for an office visit.

1/9/2008 2:11:05 PM

Im by no means an expert on health care, so I'm definitely not going to challenge any of you on it who know better than me. But it just seems like with the budget we have, we could make adjustments to allow for everyone to be protected in some way or another.

1/9/2008 2:14:23 PM

^ I'd love to hear these explanations about our budget and where we have room.


Even if we did have room, why is it the government's responsibility to take care of you?


You seem to be really naive on the issue (and I'm not attacking you). I hope that you're basing your opinions through research as opposed to feeling.

1/9/2008 2:20:38 PM

No, I am naive about it, which is why I hesitated to even delve into this. I guess we have very different ideals and feelings about how government should be run.

But I totally base my opinions on the feeling that this country does not provide equal opportunity to everyone and we should be working harder towards making that better rather than not.

I'm going to shutup now haha

1/9/2008 2:30:22 PM

just realize that there is a difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome

1/9/2008 2:46:13 PM

I agree with those that say let people be responsible for themselves. I do see some problems in our system though, but those problems are caused more by the govt influencing the free market than anything else. Bailing everyone out leads to the same types of problems as the whole mortgage crisis. The more you bail people out, the more they will keep making the same mistakes because they know they will get bailed out. If a parents can't provide their kids with health insurance, they shouldn't have had kids in the first place. I know that sounds bad, and I certainly hate to punish kids for their parent's mistake, but if a couple has to drive an older car and go without cable tv (as stated earlier) to provide their children with health insurance, that's what should be done. There are definitely some things that are rediculous though, like the poster earlier talking about the mentally handicaped person who was quoted at $800 per month. Something should be done about that kind of thing.

1/9/2008 2:58:00 PM

redstains, good post.

brett, dont hesitate to talk about an issue. I used to think the same way, then I worked a clinic in memphis. What an eye opener. Taking away responsiblities is doing no one a favor, despite the best intentions when doing so.

1/9/2008 3:02:50 PM

^^ while you think it's harsh for saying that people shouldn't have kids if they can't afford their basic necessities (insurance being one), I think you're spot on.

I want a Mercedes really badly. I will just go out and buy one but I expect you to put gas in it for me.

1/9/2008 3:06:12 PM