i thought you were done twista . . .

3/18/2008 11:31:58 AM

eyedrb, does your family disown you for your reactionary and 'give me money and fuck the poor people' filled posts? Or do they generally accept you knowing you have a few flaws?


Or, do you only hang out with people that you 100% agree with and then toss them in the gutter if they step out of line?


Yea, I thought so.

3/18/2008 11:32:41 AM

hey look sarijoul is here to blatantly troll me, thats sure to detract attention away from rev wright being racist and bring attention to more important things, like you stupid fucks refusing to believe anything that might dare cast anything negative towards the savior barack obama

^wow that also has a lot to do with Wright and Obama

thats a good strategy...I preferred terp's strategy of bringing up McCain's flaws every time somebody mentioned something critical of Obama

but the best strategy is being completely ignorant to wright's bigotry and racism...denial is the best thing right? if you dont even acknowledge the problem, you won't have to actually address it...brilliant

3/18/2008 11:33:46 AM

Quote :

"Ill ask you moron, since terp is chicken shit, what is your def. of racism? "

Treating people differently in an unwarranted context based on assumptions about their skin color.

What's your definition of racism?

3/18/2008 11:35:45 AM

so you're saying that short clips of a man shown on fox news absolutely defines his personality?

come on, i know you're an idiot but i try to give you some credit for being able to think for yourself.

3/18/2008 11:36:22 AM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/obama-race-speech-read-t_n_92077.html

A transcript of Obama's speech about race. Really good IMO and does a good job of addressing issues from all sides.

3/18/2008 11:37:38 AM

i didnt watch the clips on fox news, there you go assuming and fucking up before you even get started...and you tell me about thinking for myself...

i'm saying anyone who actually listens to wright for more than 30 seconds straight will either:

- realize that he is a hateful bigot who blames white people and america for nearly everything wrong in the world
- agree with wright in his hatred of america and therefore have no problem with what he's saying...which is probably a more likely result with some of you

3/18/2008 11:38:38 AM

jesus twista, shut the fuck up already ... you know black people can't possibly be racist

3/18/2008 11:41:35 AM

Quote :

" i'm saying anyone who actually listens to wright for more than 30 seconds straight will either: - realize that he is a hateful bigot who blames white people and america for nearly everything wrong in the world - agree with wright in his hatred of america and therefore have no problem with what he's saying...which is probably a more likely result with some of you "

Then please enlighten us with something other than these clips. If what you're saying is true, and his sermons are consistently filled with the trash that is contained in these clips then I will concede the points to you. But if you can't point me to more than a few examples of this mans sermons over a 20 year period then you really need to concede the point that you're overreacting.

And I don't mean clips, anyone can manipulate soundbites to make someone look bad, I want real content-filled examples.

3/18/2008 11:46:11 AM

i don't know what his sermons are consistently filled with, but i think its rather obvious that you fall into the 2nd of the 2 groups I mentioned...the ones who don't have a problem with all of wright's anti-american rhetoric so you don't see anything wrong with it

3/18/2008 11:50:07 AM

I think it's fairly obvious that I said what he said was stupid and trash-filled, but that's okay, I don't expect you to read anything before you hit the reply button.

But FWIW, I said I don't think that he says this stuff on a consistent basis, I think it was likely taken out of context (despite still being stupid and wrong of him to say).


But again, go ahead and hit that reply button and type something stupid without reading this message, I expect it of you.

3/18/2008 11:52:33 AM

Did anybody actually listen to the audacity of hope clip I posted on the last page?

3/18/2008 12:09:34 PM

Obama's speech was excellent, but I still think he's far too conservative.

Quote :

"But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam."

Come on. Stalwart allies?

3/18/2008 12:29:01 PM

monkey, no my family taught me responsiblity. Its a dying trait.

Moron, I agree with your def. Treating someone different, or having a different set of rules, simply bc of thier race or skin color is what I would call racism.

Monkey you require more than the man's actual words? How about the church's trying to "clean up" thier image. They have recently redone their website and taken down thier mission statement. Which preaches "black ethics", and "commitment to the black community, commitment to the black family, disavowal of the pursuit of middleclassness and allegiance to all black leadership who espouse and embrace the black value system."

3/18/2008 12:47:48 PM

Quote :

"Monkey you require more than the man's actual words?"

Quote :

"if you can't point me to more than a few examples of this mans sermons over a 20 year period then you really need to concede the point that you're overreacting."

I think my point is that I actually need words with substance, not soundbites. Is it really hard to scroll up a few posts and read what I wrote?

Quote :

"If what you're saying is true, and his sermons are consistently filled with the trash that is contained in these clips then I will concede the points to you."

You guys are becoming so cyclical it's ridiculous.

3/18/2008 1:19:15 PM

Is Wright racist? Maybe.

Are members of Wright's congregation racist? Probably.

Is it that hard to believe that Wright would say things that could be prejudiced or racist considering the people he is preaching to? I know I'd changed my speeches up all the time, depending on who the audience is.

Wright said some prejudiced comments to his congregation. It wouldn't surprise me if he was out having lunch with some white people a couple of hours later. The fact is, you can say prejudiced and racially insensitive things and not be a racist. It's no different than hanging out with your white buddies or posting on a message board and using the word "nigger". You can have black friends, but you know better than to drop the n-word around them unless you make sure it sounds like "nigga". If you said the word around people you didn't know, they would probably think you were a racist. Only your closest friends and yourself would know in your heart of hearts if you really were a racist or not.

My definition of racism is the action or inaction towards anyone of a different race, because of their race, btw.

3/18/2008 1:26:02 PM

monkey, those WORDS were on thier website before removed. I bet you dont consider that a big deal either?

3/18/2008 1:30:23 PM

black people had sex with monkeys in Africa and started the spread of HIV in order to kill white people

black people rob and kill white girls in chapel hill without batting an eye

black people dont hold jobs on purpose so that the white government has to pay them welfare and tax white people more





now, does it matter what context I say those things, or are they racist by nature?

3/18/2008 1:53:39 PM

here's the whole speech video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU

3/18/2008 1:54:01 PM

Being an angry black man and an angry white man in this country are perfectly equally justified positions.*

*In fact, being an angry white man is MORE justified!**

**This is what conservatives actually believe.

3/18/2008 2:06:46 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/us/politics/18text-obama.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

Here's a transcript, if you are not in a condition to view the video.

3/18/2008 2:29:06 PM

Quote :

"Is Wright racist? Maybe. Are members of Wright's congregation racist? Probably. Is it that hard to believe that Wright would say things that could be prejudiced or racist considering the people he is preaching to? I know I'd changed my speeches up all the time, depending on who the audience is. Wright said some prejudiced comments to his congregation. It wouldn't surprise me if he was out having lunch with some white people a couple of hours later. The fact is, you can say prejudiced and racially insensitive things and not be a racist. It's no different than hanging out with your white buddies or posting on a message board and using the word "nigger". You can have black friends, but you know better than to drop the n-word around them unless you make sure it sounds like "nigga". If you said the word around people you didn't know, they would probably think you were a racist. Only your closest friends and yourself would know in your heart of hearts if you really were a racist or not. "

I pretty much agree with all of this. Wright said a lot of dumb things (particularly the AIDS thing), but like most preachers, he's also a politician. He was trying to get a point across and was catering to his audience. But nothing he said paints him to be an outright racist, and considering the rest of his history, and that one of his good friends is half white, there's not much else that would indicate he's a racist either.

3/18/2008 2:32:25 PM

reasonable post. I can jive with that explanation a lot more than the "OMG ITS OUT OF CONTEXT!!!11" excuses. that makes sense....that said, I still think the guy is a raving lunatic attention whore.

3/18/2008 3:00:33 PM

Quote :

"I still think the guy is a raving lunatic attention whore."

He may be a raving lunatic, but he's not an attention whore. He didn't ask for this attentntion, although i'm sure he doesn't mind it either.

3/18/2008 3:54:31 PM

ok...granted.

3/18/2008 3:58:15 PM

Quote :

"Is it that hard to believe that Wright would say things that could be prejudiced or racist considering the people he is preaching to? I know I'd changed my speeches up all the time, depending on who the audience is."

I think you're still looking at it as if Wright is simply a politician or a public speaker and nothing more.

He's more than that. He is SUPPOSED to be a religious and spiritual leader and a man of guidance for the church. He's supposed to instill values of equality, peace, forgiveness, etc. That God loves everyone and so should you, etc. But instead he doesn't instill values of equality and peace. He just panders to the exact same feelings of "life isn't fair for a black person in America due to the white man" that I'm sure many of the church's members already have before going into the church. Seems like he is just continuing to fuel the fire and perpetuate these feelings of unfairness and segregation. He has a voice that many hear and he is not doing a good job setting the type of examples I'd want a sane religious leader to try and instill. I just don't understand why so many of you view him in a completely different light.

And Obama trusts him as his spiritual leader? This is the guy giving Obama guidance and influencing what he decides to do?

3/18/2008 3:58:24 PM

It's not so relevant today as it was when there was all the fear-mongering and muslim hate going on after 9/11 (when he said lots of these things). He was reminding the church that America isn't perfect, as Fox news was trying to make everyone scared of anyone who wasn't an American.

I see it more of him attempting to balance out other influences.

3/18/2008 4:01:42 PM

Quote :

"Being an angry black man and an angry white man in this country are perfectly equally justified positions.* *In fact, being an angry white man is MORE justified!** **This is what conservatives actually believe."

i think it's more along the lines that if a white man is angry, he needs to shut the fuck the fuck up

and if a black man is angry, society tells him to shout to the rafters, because he deserves to for all the years he was blah blah blah

3/18/2008 4:06:46 PM

wow, you are a REAL piece of shit there aren't you ffjackso?

3/18/2008 4:09:30 PM

Quote :

"It's not so relevant today as it was when there was all the fear-mongering and muslim hate going on after 9/11 (when he said lots of these things). He was reminding the church that America isn't perfect"

I still think there are large problems with essentially blaming America's occupation in the Middle East as the cause of any attacks on our interests by radical Muslims...the typical excuse from the left seems to be "our foreign policy caused these attacks"...which isn't fair at all...to say that our occupation in that region of the world was the REASON that we've been violently attacked and had our people killed on numerous occasions...its like saying a girl wouldn't have gotten raped if she hadn't worn a scandalous outfit...not wearing the outfit might have decreased the chances of rape, but the rape itself is clearly worse than dressing slutty...our foreign policy could've been better and might've decreased the chances of terrorist attacks on our interests, but the violent attacks on us are clearly worse than our troop placements or support of Israel's right to exist...but you still have a segment of the population who would rather blame our foreign policy for terrorist attacks, instead of the sick murderous terrorists who actually carry out the very attacks that our foreign policy is blamed for...they'd rather blame America instead of the sick and twisted mindsets of the radical Muslims who carry out terrorist attacks

3/18/2008 4:16:28 PM

Quote :

"its like saying a girl wouldn't have gotten raped if she hadn't worn a scandalous outfit..."

ummmm, no

Quote :

"worse than our troop placements or support of Israel's right to exist..."

If you really believe this is all the reason they would have, then i would understand your stance.

Either way, I still think there are aspects of 9/11 that the vast majority isn't really clear of (to say the least)

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 4:21 PM. Reason : ]

3/18/2008 4:20:35 PM

Quote :

"If you really believe this is all the reason they would have, then i would understand your stance. "

thats what i've been told by plenty of people...TSBers, Rev. Wright, etc...i think even Ron Paul said it...i'm not just pulling this out of nowhere...apparently its the US's foreign policy that has created these terrorists...its our fault, right? Its our fault our country got raped because of our fashion policy

3/18/2008 4:21:59 PM

Quote :

"Neither Jerry Falwell nor Pat Robertson ever retracted or denounced their view that America provoked the 9/11 attacks by doing things to anger God. John Hagee continues to believe that the City of New Orleans got what it deserved when Katrina drowned its residents and devastated the lives of thousands of Americans. And James Inhofe -- who happens to still be a Republican U.S. Senator -- blamed America for the 9/11 attacks by arguing in a 2002 Senate floor speech that "the spiritual door was opened for an attack against the United States of America" because we pressured Israel to give away parts of the West Bank."

Quote :

"By all accounts, George Bush had private conversations with Pat Robertson about matters as weighty as whether to invade Iraq. Isn't that a big scandal -- that the President is consulting with an American-hating minister -- someone who believes God allowed the 9/11 attacks as punishment for our evil country -- about vital foreign policy decisions? No, it wasn't controversial at all. John Hagee privately visits with the highest level Middle East officials in the White House and afterwards pronounces that they're in agreement. John McCain shares a stage with Hagee and lavishes him with praise, as Rudy Giuliani did with Pat Robertson. James Inhofe remains a member in good standing in the GOP Senate Caucus. The Republican Party has tied itself at the hip to a whole slew of "anti-American extremists" -- people who believe that the U.S. provoked the 9/11 attacks because God wants to punish us for the evil, wicked nation we've become -- and yet there is virtual silence about these associations. Nor have the views of televangelist Rod Parsley, one of McCain's self-proclaimed "spiritual advisers," received a fraction of the attention generated by Wright. As both David Corn and Alan Colmes, among others, have documented, Parsley espouses views at least as extreme and radical as Wright, including his proclamation that "America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion [Islam] destroyed." Unlike Wright and Obama -- for whom the former's controversial views are found nowhere near the latter's public or private conduct -- both George Bush and John McCain's Middle Eastern militarism are perfectly consonant with the most maniacal and crazed views of Christian Rapture enthusiasts such as Hagee, Parsley, Inhofe, and Robertson. Yet the controversy created over their close ties is virtually non-existent. "

Quote :

"the Bush White House, in addition to consulting with Robertson, also consulted with the anti-American Jerry Falwell, including on the question of whom the administration should nominate to the Supreme Court. It even appointed a White House liaison for Falwell. When Falwell died, President Bush "said he was deeply saddened by Falwell's death, calling him 'a man who cherished faith, family and freedom.'" Shouldn't we be very concerned about American children hearing our President praise an American-hating radical who believes that our country is a sick and wicked land that God wanted to be victimized by the 9/11 attacks?"

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/17/wright/index.html

3/18/2008 5:21:26 PM

I've heard many a minister refer to America as the "whore of Babylon".

Many ministers blame sin in America for America's troubles, that abortion and homosexuality are abominations in God's sight, and that America's choice to allow both will be to the downfall of America, just like the other great civilizations before them.

Basically, many a pastor has denounced the government or the American people for the things that go wrong in this country. Wright isn't the first and he won't be the last. His comments are out there with the typical southern preacher who wants to destroy Islam.

3/18/2008 5:31:47 PM

Quote :

"The Republican Party has tied itself at the hip to a whole slew of "anti-American extremists""

Quote :

"maniacal and crazed views of Christian Rapture enthusiasts such as Hagee, Parsley, Inhofe"

Quote :

"the anti-American Jerry Falwell"

Quote :

"Shouldn't we be very concerned about American children hearing our President praise an American-hating radical"

It's tough to take that editorial seriously when it's saddled with the kind of blanket insults and labels that Democrats hate so much.

[Edited on March 18, 2008 at 5:33 PM. Reason : 2]

3/18/2008 5:33:31 PM

Quote :

"I've heard many a minister refer to America as the "whore of Babylon". Many ministers blame sin in America for America's troubles, that abortion and homosexuality are abominations in God's sight, and that America's choice to allow both will be to the downfall of America, just like the other great civilizations before them. Basically, many a pastor has denounced the government or the American people for the things that go wrong in this country. Wright isn't the first and he won't be the last. His comments are out there with the typical southern preacher who wants to destroy Islam."

3/18/2008 7:25:24 PM

the people that could care less about religion are like "man this story is lame"

3/18/2008 7:32:05 PM

no, the people that could care less about religion are like "wow this barack obama guy's religious advisor is pretty fucking crazy"

3/18/2008 9:52:45 PM

Quote :

"I think you're still looking at it as if Wright is simply a politician or a public speaker and nothing more. He's more than that. He is SUPPOSED to be a religious and spiritual leader and a man of guidance for the church. He's supposed to instill values of equality, peace, forgiveness, etc. That God loves everyone and so should you, etc. But instead he doesn't instill values of equality and peace. He just panders to the exact same feelings of "life isn't fair for a black person in America due to the white man" that I'm sure many of the church's members already have before going into the church. Seems like he is just continuing to fuel the fire and perpetuate these feelings of unfairness and segregation. He has a voice that many hear and he is not doing a good job setting the type of examples I'd want a sane religious leader to try and instill. I just don't understand why so many of you view him in a completely different light. And Obama trusts him as his spiritual leader? This is the guy giving Obama guidance and influencing what he decides to do? "

Is this written down in the preacher's handbook or something? Are you an expert on the job description of clergy now?

It's pretty clear that Wright was as much a community leader as he was a preacher, if not more so. And in black churches especially, it's fairly common for the sermon to center around local issues in the community. Wright is WELL within his place to discuss racism and oppression, and considering where in Chicago he was, i'm guessing that themes of racism are far more relevant than you seem to believe.

It is also telling that you seem to feel that racism isn't actually a problem for blacks, and thus they should never talk about it. Really, it's this kind of obliviousness or indifference that you are demonstrating that justifies blacks continuing to fight racism and prejudice against their community.

And on top of that, wright was not saying "boo hoo look what whitey did to us" he was more saying "despite the barriers against us we need to rise above it and secure our freedom and future." Considering the reaction to Obama's speech, i feel comforted that most white people aren't as narrow-minded as you and others when it comes to allowing the black community to vocalize their issues. BUt i'm saddened that you choose to cling to the idea that wright hates whites, despite all the evidence against this.

Another noteworthy observation as well is that you refuse to judge Obama on his words and actions, and instead are using the guise that he's a politician to make up whatever you want about him, because that's how all politicians must be, while paradoxically, you refuse to look at the actions and history, and even full context of wright's statements, while only focusing on a few words of his that someone with a clear motive and bias has chosen for you to hear. I guess when you make up your own reality, you can't ever be wrong.

3/19/2008 1:00:24 AM

OMF I AINT LETTIN NO ANGRY BLACK GUY BE MY PRESIDENTS

3/19/2008 1:31:19 AM

Quote :

"I've heard many a minister refer to America as the "whore of Babylon". Many ministers blame sin in America for America's troubles, that abortion and homosexuality are abominations in God's sight, and that America's choice to allow both will be to the downfall of America, just like the other great civilizations before them. Basically, many a pastor has denounced the government or the American people for the things that go wrong in this country. Wright isn't the first and he won't be the last. His comments are out there with the typical southern preacher who wants to destroy Islam. "

this is all true. the difference are the "facts" that Wright produces to specifically slander and create hate against white people...for example he said the "white american government" created HIV to kill off all the black people in Africa.

there is no context or explanation for stuff like that...its just hate mongering and race-baiting and is what so many have a problem with.

3/19/2008 7:41:35 AM

OMF I AINT LETTIN NOTHING STOP ME FROM VOTING FOR THE FIRST BLACK GUY FOR PRESIDENTS

3/19/2008 9:49:22 AM

Quote :

"You idolize Jesse Helms, and you hate muslims (which is not really a race but close enough). And as evidenced by this thread, you have a gross misperceptions about the black community in America."

To the poster who accurately desribes his mental capacities in his user name, moron:

There's a hell of a lot more evidence that your pastor Wright is a racist than any insinuation you or any other leftist could ever make against Senator Helms. Funny how you want to label me a racist because I do admire Senator Helms but you bend over backwards to defend your presidential candidate who has an intimate spiritual relationship with this rambling anti-American bigot. Besides, I'm sure if you have any information of Helms' racism the media would love to get ahold of it.

And yet you continue to jump to conclusions, I do not hate muslims and it's mainly your misinterpretations of "being black" that struck a nerve.

Personally, I don't care if you're orange with purple hair, I simply think you're pretty much a worthless mouthpiece who takes his infatuation of me to stalkerish levels.



[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 9:54 AM. Reason : ]

3/19/2008 9:51:40 AM

Quote :

"There's a hell of a lot more evidence that your pastor Wright is a racist than any insinuation you or any other leftist could ever make against Senator Helms."

You sound awfully sure of that.

Quote :

"As an aide to the 1950 Senate campaign of North Carolina Republican candidate Willis Smith, Helms reportedly helped create attack ads against Smith's opponent, including one which read: "White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories? Frank Graham favors mingling of the races." Another ad featured photographs Helms himself had doctored to illustrate the allegation that Graham's wife had danced with a black man. (The News and Observer, 8/26/01; The New Republic, 6/19/95; The Observer, 5/5/96; Hard Right: The Rise of Jesse Helms, by Ernest B. Furgurson, Norton, 1986)"

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1871

3/19/2008 9:58:41 AM

Helms does have a pretty damning record of racism, especially early in his career. towards the end, he calmed down a bit. I have about as much use for him as I do Ted Kennedy.

3/19/2008 10:00:02 AM

Mike Huckabee defends Obama and Wright:

Quote :

"[Obama] made the point, and I think it's a valid one, that you can't hold the candidate responsible for everything that people around him may say or do. You just can't. Whether it's me, whether it's Obama...anybody else. But he did distance himself from the very vitriolic statements. ... As easy as it is for those of us who are white, to look back and say "That's a terrible statement!"...I grew up in a very segregated south. And I think that you have to cut some slack -- and I'm gonna be probably the only Conservative in America who's gonna say something like this, but I'm just tellin' you -- we've gotta cut some slack to people who grew up being called names, being told "you have to sit in the balcony when you go to the movie. You have to go to the back door to go into the restaurant. And you can't sit out there with everyone else. There's a separate waiting room in the doctor's office. Here's where you sit on the bus..." And you know what? Sometimes people do have a chip on their shoulder and resentment. And you have to just say, I probably would too. I probably would too. In fact, I may have had more of a chip on my shoulder had it been me."

3/19/2008 10:48:07 AM

I think Huckabee saying comments like that, and Obama's speech yesterday SHOULD calm down the controversy - but here are the problems:

1. it was a short media clip played over and over and over again on multiple news media outlets - it did a lot of damage
2. i'd say that 70% of the people who would let a clip like that affect their views on Obama can't understand his vocabulary, and probably barely recieved half of the point he was trying to make
3. Huckabee makes a good point, but will this one Huckabee blurb be viewed over and over and over again like the Wright videos? no.

The whole thing was just unfortunate, but it's a microcosm of America's society. It was definitely naive of me to think it was possible for Obama could make it through the campaign without having to deal with something like this

[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 10:55 AM. Reason : ]

3/19/2008 10:55:00 AM

^^ Huckabee saying that is ignoring the fact that this racist biggot preaches this crap to CHILDREN. Obama has two very young daughters and although they were never told to sit in the balcony or where to sit on the bus, they will grow up with the same chip on their shoulder that Wright has. He's poisoning the next generation so that this problem will NEVER go away.

Sooner or later you have to let it go.



[Edited on March 19, 2008 at 10:59 AM. Reason : .]

3/19/2008 10:57:08 AM

GoldenViper, I've read both the book and other accounts with regards to the Smith campaign. Helms was never tied to the ad in question, no proof was ever given that he was the mastermind or that he even had anything to do with it. I know FAIR is such a fair source and all, but it was nothing more than an attack that is big on rhetoric and short on actual evidence.

3/19/2008 12:44:40 PM

^ Even if you're right, that's only one of many allegations of racism against Helms. Read the entire article I linked for more.

3/19/2008 12:47:24 PM