^ Do you have kids? Or have personal knowledge of what it costs to raise 5 kids?)

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 2:44 PM. Reason : (I forgot, the current welfare system was so good.)]

5/8/2008 2:44:07 PM

once again, why do they have 5 kids if they cant afford them? If you/they cant give me a good reason for why I should have to pay for THAT then I dont think you can seriously give me a reason why it is my responsibility to help them pay for it.

Its a completely reasonable request that most people I have ever talked to about this have a hard time arguing against.

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 2:46 PM. Reason : ]

5/8/2008 2:45:19 PM

Quote :

"Why should i have money taken from me to which i could be providing for my family, to pay for another's child who intentionally makes poor financial choices since they know the government has their back."

Would you please shut the fuck up if you have nothing else to add? Not everyone receiving government assistance is a miserable life failure you public education, road use consuming prick. To continue to make this point is submarining any useful argument you could make about government support.

5/8/2008 2:48:52 PM

^^No argument here. They shouldn't have them.

I simply don't think HUR's line about child neglect was legit. I've never made the argument that you're addressing here... but your proposed solution is for the kids to suffer as a result of the supposed neglect? Or perhaps the nanny state should step in a stomp all over peoples rights in the interests of "saving the children"?

Don't be so shortsighted as to not see what the alternative is... We didn't get to be "#1" by having kids starving and diseased in the streets when there is clearly enough government waste going around to take care of them.

5/8/2008 2:50:15 PM

^^the thing is, we arent really the ones bringing that up. And I (even tho you didnt quote me) have NEVER said once that these were the ONLY people in need.

It just so happens that the SUPPORTERS of this free healthcare are the ones who keep bringing up the fact that an income of 50k is not enough to support a family of 2...or 5. And if they are going to keep bringing that up then I will keep bringing up the same argument that it is NOT my responsibility to pay for that.

and honkey:

Quote :

"there is clearly enough government waste going around to take care of them."

yea thats an entirely separate issue that I agree with you on. we probably could provide free healthcare without taking money from my pockets if the government ran a tighter ship...


[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 2:55 PM. Reason : ]

5/8/2008 2:52:39 PM

Quote :

"free healthcare are the ones who keep bringing up the fact that an income of 50k is not enough to support a family of 2...or 5. And if they are going to keep bringing that up then I will keep bringing up the same argument that it is NOT my responsibility to pay for that."

Thank You.

I am not arguing against assistance to the poor or that 50K is enough to live some grand luxurious lifestyle. However, I am arguing against people who seem to think that people should be hand held through out life by the government and freed from self-responsibility of providing for themselves as well as their family.

Gov't spending is already out of control. If anything i'd rather have any tax hike being use to assist the social security crisis as the baby boomer progresses toward retirement. This though is a totally different can of worms i'd rather not get into.

5/8/2008 3:00:33 PM

Quote :

""When people start consuming too much protein (over 2.0 g/kg/d), the extra protein can become a stressful stimulus for the kidney. This is even more of a concern as we get older and our organs are less efficient and effective."

Vix clearly this doesn't fit my situation. do the math. that being the case i'll continue to intake protein at the level i'm doing.

now i'll read the other 80000 posts that have arrived since i went to lunch.

5/8/2008 3:07:47 PM

Quote :

"And if they are going to keep bringing that up then I will keep bringing up the same argument that it is NOT my responsibility to pay for that"

We could be like a lot of European countries that are struggling to find qualified folks to work in their countries because the birth rate is declining.

The proper raising of healthy children benefits EVERYONE in the society, do you agree with that? As such, we should be eager to put some money in the pot, provided it is spent efficiently, so that the entire society benefits from it.

I'll say it again, if health care costs weren't exorbitant, we'd be talking about $300 a year to help this family, not $3000, and everyone wouldn't be up in arms crying about it.

Quote :

"I am not arguing against assistance to the poor or that 50K is enough to live some grand luxurious lifestyle. However, I am arguing against people who seem to think that people should be hand held through out life by the government and freed from self-responsibility of providing for themselves as well as their family."

Yes, because that is what everyone does that gets help from the government. They just stop doing everything and live off of it forever. Every single person.

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 3:13 PM. Reason : edit]

5/8/2008 3:11:35 PM

We can all live in theoretical lands where people who shouldn't have babies don't and the sunshines everyday and bran tastes like skittles, but we don't.

5/8/2008 3:22:41 PM

Quote :

"The proper raising of healthy children PARENTING benefits EVERYONE i"

we can give every kid in teh US filet minion but if their parents are doing a lousy job then it really doesn't matter.

5/8/2008 3:26:03 PM

HYPERBOLE HYPERBOLE

5/8/2008 3:27:01 PM

Quote :

"We could be like a lot of European countries that are struggling to find qualified folks to work in their countries because the birth rate is declining. The proper raising of healthy children benefits EVERYONE in the society, do you agree with that? As such, we should be eager to put some money in the pot, provided it is spent efficiently, so that the entire society benefits from it. I'll say it again, if health care costs weren't exorbitant, we'd be talking about $300 a year to help this family, not $3000, and everyone wouldn't be up in arms crying about it. "

I agree that proper raising of healthy children is good. That doesnt mean that people who cant afford them should keep having them at all. Agree with me or not, but we are creating a system that does support people who continue to have children when they couldnt afford the ones they already have. And we are far from struggling to find qualified workers yet imo.

And the money will not be spent efficiently thats the thing. I would be for it if our government was spending efficiently but it doesnt.

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 3:31 PM. Reason : ]

5/8/2008 3:29:25 PM

We have created conditions where the lowliest common denominators of our society are reproducing at a faster rate and even encouraged to do so then people who make intelligent life decisions and sound financial decisions. It is almost like reverse natural selection

5/8/2008 3:38:08 PM

The US is hardly unique.

Poor people have higher fertility rates than middle class / rich people in just about every country.

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 3:40 PM. Reason : 2]

5/8/2008 3:39:43 PM

Quote :

"We have created conditions where the lowliest common denominators of our society are reproducing at a faster rate and even encouraged to do so then people who make intelligent life decisions and sound financial decisions. It is almost like reverse natural selection "

This i can actually agree with. It has very little to do with the state of our nations welfare policies or social programs and more so with the values individuals hold based on a combination of things such as the community in which they were raised, their parents standing and desired goals they have.

5/8/2008 3:50:20 PM

Quote :

"more so with the values individuals hold based on a combination of things such as the community in which they were raised, their parents standing and desired goals they have."

I agree. I've been frustrated that a lot of the conservative establishment tends to credit their own parents and community with instilling in them the values and the drive to succeed in our nation, but then turn around and try to put 100% of the blame of the problems of the lower half of society squarely on the shoulders of big government. It's still about individual responsibility, the government doesn't make people dependent on it... those people are raised to expect it, just as they're raised to be expected to breed like rats.

5/8/2008 4:03:02 PM

Quote :

"Why should the kid suffer because of the parents?"

If kids are suffering abuse and neglect, they should be taken away from the parents.

5/8/2008 4:03:51 PM

I still remember the article in the news a few months ago about the great great grandma forced out of her apartment. I remember clicking on the link expecting to see some ancient fossil of a woman. Instead i learned in the article she was only 68.

5/8/2008 4:06:05 PM

Today I went to National Tire and Battery to get my oil changed. The elderly friendly lady working the desk asked if I used to go to the Triple-A mechanic shop on Avent Ferry. Apparently she used to work there and recognized me from years back when i first came to NCSU. I asked her why she moved to which she explained that she retired, however, due to increased prices and the economy she decided to return to work.

I applaud her for illustrating personal responsibility and showing pro activism towards life. Instead of sacrificing her current lifestyle or whining to the government for more social benefits; she instead decided to return to work in order to earn enough money to support herself. Not making the tax payer do so.

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 5:57 PM. Reason : a]

5/8/2008 5:56:59 PM

Your rhetoric is exceedingly tiresome. Perhaps...go away?

5/8/2008 6:03:19 PM

^^yes, can't wait 'til i'm 90 and have to go back to work b/c my retirement benefits can't keep up with a poor economy.

5/8/2008 6:10:04 PM

Should have saved more...
and not expect to live on social security like many americans.

Retirement is a luxury not a right. It is one thing if your health is failing you and cannot physically work. Totally different is being 62 and deciding you'd rather retire and have an extra 3 years to travel the US in your RV.

[Edited on May 8, 2008 at 6:12 PM. Reason : a]

5/8/2008 6:12:05 PM

You're a pretty callous individual.

5/9/2008 3:49:45 PM

You know you love it baby

5/9/2008 8:34:15 PM