So how about this.

What was answered in this episode?

What brought more questions in this episode?


Answered:
-Yes the island is moving in space time (but I think that was pretty much assumed before)

New Questions:
-Who were the guys at the end that were so violent with Sawyer and Juliette?
-Who was the lady in the butcher shop?
-Why didn't the Others travel through time with the survivors?



[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 12:04 AM. Reason : ]

1/22/2009 12:03:14 AM

Quote :

"Answered: -Yes the island is moving in space time (but I think that was pretty much assumed before) "

I think it was said that it's the people that are traveling through time, not the island, even though we saw the island "disappear" last season.

1/22/2009 12:06:29 AM

Quote :

"The crazy thing is that I think we got enough information to work through a lot of answers, including some answers to questions that have been posed over the first four seasons of the show. I need some time to digest, but here is the traditional spewing of random thoughts to tide you over and pique your interests for the next few days... * Is Charlotte suffering the same "sickness" that killed Minkowski (and almost Desmond?) Is it because she was on the Island before (as a child) and left, but returned on a different bearing? Or is it because she doesn't have a Constant? Could this be the same "illness" that killed all of CFL's crew? But CFL was somehow spared because she had Alex to act as her Constant? * If Desmond is the only one immune to the effects of the Island jumping in time and wiping out memories, is he screwing up the space-time continuum by suddenly having the ability to actually change the past? * Who the F is Ms. Hawking? I definitely got the vibe that she is some type of "The Matrix"-esque Oracle character who is trying to prevent the end of the world, mucked up by Desmond changing the past. Is this why she was so adamant about him not marrying Penny and just staying put on the Island? * Who was the Jill character that Ben left Locke's body with? An Other that he is BFF with from back in the day? Or someone in the Ms. Hawking clan who are just working on preventing the world from coming to an end? * Even with Hurley potentially being arrested, it's pretty hilarious how simple the Oceanic Six storyline is in comparison to the Island one. Every time they would jump to an Oceanic Six scene, I would feel slight disappointment on the inside. * What are the odds that the opening scene of the season, featuring Faraday inside the Orchid as it is being built, was actually a "flashback", and that at some point this season, the Island will "jump" back that far in time, allowing Faraday to enter the Orchid to try and sort everything out? Will this lead to throwing him into the future? Is this why he was crying when we first met his character last season? Does he have this residual memory of everything that happened, and everyone that dies (Charlotte in particular), but can't quite remember it? Will he be exposed to high levels of radiation like Desmond rendering him able to remember things outside of the "jumps"? * Locke ends up with the compass that Alpert gave him, which seems like the object that Alpert wanted him to choose as a child when he visited. However, the knife is actually what was Locke's - the compass is Alpert's. So wouldn't that mean that Locke chose correctly? * Is this how the Others knew that Locke was going to be their future leader? Did 1970's Locke tell them all sorts of stuff that had not yet happened and they figured that he was seeing into the future and must be some all-knowing being / witch? * My early assumption is that Island Originals are immune from the effects of the Island moving - but any outsiders are not. This would explain Alpert knowing what was going on, but Ethan and the early Dharma folks not. But there are still all sorts of questions about what this means for characters who are alive vs. dead in the different timelines. Could this be why we see characters like Christian Shephard walking around?"

http://lost-and-gone-forever.blogspot.com/2009/01/because-you-left-and-lie-instant.html

1/22/2009 12:07:22 AM

the island moved locations, but we already knew it. farraday just confirmed it when he said i need a new bearing and when mrs hawking was finding in the lab.

why was mrs hawking in the basement of what i would assume is a roman catholic church?
why was ben lighting candles?
whats in the bag that ben has been carrying since bentham's funeral


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1/22/2009 12:08:48 AM

Quote :

"I think it was said that it's the people that are traveling through time, not the island, even though we saw the island "disappear" last season."

You're right.

1/22/2009 12:08:59 AM

Quote :

"Who the F is Ms. Hawking? I definitely got the vibe that she is some type of "The Matrix"-esque Oracle character who is trying to prevent the end of the world, mucked up by Desmond changing the past. Is this why she was so adamant about him not marrying Penny and just staying put on the Island?"

From lostpedia:

Quote :

"On the Season 3 DVD, Damon Lindelof describes Hawking as "some sort of temporal policeman in place to make sure that everybody who is supposed to get to the island, does." He says this is related to the grand scale of Fate versus free will."

--

Quote :

"What are the odds that the opening scene of the season, featuring Faraday inside the Orchid as it is being built, was actually a "flashback", and that at some point this season, the Island will "jump" back that far in time, allowing Faraday to enter the Orchid to try and sort everything out?"

ha, that seems pretty obvious now

Quote :

"Is this how the Others knew that Locke was going to be their future leader? Did 1970's Locke tell them all sorts of stuff that had not yet happened and they figured that he was seeing into the future and must be some all-knowing being / witch?"

Faraday explained that this couldn't happen, right?

1/22/2009 12:11:32 AM

Was abbadon the FBI guy or was it just another bald black guy?

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1/22/2009 12:11:38 AM

What FBI guy?

He was the one that arranged the science crew on the freighter and he was the dude wheeling around Locke in the hospital.

1/22/2009 12:12:55 AM

Quote :

"This would explain Alpert knowing what was going on, but Ethan and the early Dharma folks not."

But alpert also said that when locke saw him again he wouldn't recognize him. At what points in time does alpert know and not know?

The FBI guy who came to hurley's house. I would assume its just a random black guy, but he seemed tall and creepy like abaddon.

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1/22/2009 12:16:17 AM

They jumped around a lot, so maybe I'm getting it mixed up

But when Alpert found Locke, they must have been in the future. The hatch was destroyed and Alpert knew what was going on.

1/22/2009 12:18:20 AM

weren't all the statues with cocaine still in the cabin? i thought charlie destroyed them all (or someone destroyed them to protect him or something)

i know its strange considering all of the things going on, but my #1 question is:

Who built the statue?

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1/22/2009 12:26:02 AM

good point here that I had forgotten about
http://www.tvsquad.com/2009/01/21/lost-because-you-left-season-premiere/

Quote :

"Locke was with The Others when the first flash occurred - then he was alone. This is where it's going to get confusing. In the past, he has now personally witnessed Yemi's plane crash, yet in season one, he dreamed about it and that's how he and Boone found the wreckage. So which came first? Has this happened before? Has Locke been here?"

1/22/2009 12:38:07 AM

That is going to be answered soon I think.

I have a feeling it will be answered if time jumps back again. It's obvious that this is a very old statue.

1/22/2009 12:38:55 AM

^^ i think they'll figure out a way to explain that.

they know that time travel is a very confusing thing, and its hard for people to agree that any one explanation is accepable.

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1/22/2009 12:43:28 AM

Quote :

"I just came here to read the post-Lost stupidity that is a mainstay of TWW ever since the days of season 1. I'd like to thank Big Business for keeping up that great tradition."

I'm sitting out of this thread this season

more fun to watch what happens then figure it out and tell you guys that you're wrong

huge waste of time and its going to get even worse

1/22/2009 12:58:18 AM

i thought the first half was better than the 2nd, but liked them both a lot, mostly i'm just happy as hell that it is back on. i hope we get to see whats going on with Lapidus, we saw everyone else that got off the island with him.

1/22/2009 1:25:50 AM

some new questions i just remembered,

what happened between sayid and ben, last we saw he was working for ben, now hes changed sides again

IIRC sun said there were two people she was after, that she felt were responsible for Jin's death, we know now one of them is ben, who is the other? jack maybe, whitmore (even though shes working with him, could just be using him to get to ben, then kill him)?

1/22/2009 2:38:05 AM

Quote :

"* What are the odds that the opening scene of the season, featuring Faraday inside the Orchid as it is being built, was actually a "flashback", and that at some point this season, the Island will "jump" back that far in time, allowing Faraday to enter the Orchid to try and sort everything out? Will this lead to throwing him into the future? Is this why he was crying when we first met his character last season? Does he have this residual memory of everything that happened, and everyone that dies (Charlotte in particular), but can't quite remember it? Will he be exposed to high levels of radiation like Desmond rendering him able to remember things outside of the "jumps"?"

I really like this theory. Also, in the preview Daniel Faraday was carrying a limp woman with curly red hair...had to be Charlotte. I know he doesn't want to fuck with the past too much, but we've already seen him do it once. Amazing how big of a character he will be this season.

Miles seems useless right now although he seemed to be the 'leader' of their little group when we first met them last season.

1/22/2009 2:51:05 AM

i don't think he seems any more usless than charlotte, i like his character and i'm interested in his story, and i think he brings a little comic relief, i'm assuming he talked to the dead boar (as we've seen him talk to other dead things) and thats how he knew it had only been dead for 3 hours, made me chuckle when i saw it

1/22/2009 2:59:12 AM

I thought the guys looked army...maybe they are british army?
They had old style haircuts and old style military uniforms...

also, i thought it was weird how miles was very certain about walking into the jungle and finding food. then i remembered how he can communicate with the dead...he probably "sensed" it or something


Also...in Ben's flashback episode, he befriended a little girl
Could the lady in the butcher shop be that girl?

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 7:16 AM. Reason : yea]

1/22/2009 7:13:45 AM

One thing I'm very happy about is that they've clearly stated that you can't change anything in the past and backed it up with the way the episode(s) played out (e.g. Sawyer couldn't meet Desmond in the past). When you start changing things in the past and then show the consequences in the future, it starts to get messy and confusing and just a pain in the ass like HEROES.

1/22/2009 8:32:39 AM

Hate to be 'that guy' but let's start spelling the people's names right



Juliet
Charles Widmore
Lawnmower Man

1/22/2009 10:48:16 AM

fuck you.

1/22/2009 10:58:21 AM

and your couch

1/22/2009 1:13:20 PM

Hiro will fix EVERYTHING. woohoo waffles!

1/22/2009 1:25:57 PM

they said you couldn't change the past but daniel banged on the hatch and got desmond to open it up...
Are you saying that it had happened already? If so, why did Daniel think about it and say, "hope this works"

1/22/2009 6:22:35 PM

Because Desmond is special in someway that he isn't affected by the time shifts. Remember Faraday running back to look at his notes? Remember Faraday telling Desmond that he was different?

1/22/2009 6:35:22 PM

yeah, Faraday said that Desmond is special and the only one that can break the rules

1/22/2009 6:36:10 PM

i just took that to mean he was the only one that exists on the island and in the future (present) that could help them.

but what i don't understand is: from Faraday's perspective, he just just got back to the island after the ship blew up, and the time shifts started happening, then he had that conversation with past desmond, why would desmond not remember it until 3 years in the future (from the point that they got off the island), instead of the same time frame that faraday was originally in (right after the ship blew up)? if that makes any sense.

also, in last seasons finale when sayid gets hurley from the institution, hurley says "we're not going back are we?" and not in the type of way that sugests he actually wanted to go back, and then as soon as they get to the safe house, which in their time happens just afterwards, he says "we never should have left the island," he changes opinions pretty quickly

1/22/2009 6:52:58 PM

for five years i've watched you people fuck the simplest things up

and now i've made a chart that shows it



thats right

there is a right way to cook hot pockets, and a wrong way

on one side of the cloud, we have everyone
on the other side, hugo "hurley" reyes

honestly people
lets try harder this season to not fuck up

also - locke totally fucked up the time stream by knifing that dude

1/22/2009 7:07:04 PM

Quote :

"locke totally fucked up the time stream by knifing that dude"

That means that must have happened in the future, right? Since you can't go around meeting people in the past that you didn't actually meet in the past.

1/22/2009 7:43:51 PM

well i mean

you can't when farraday is there to stop you

but yeah

when you're john locke you can stab whoever the fuck you want

i'm thinking that was somebody's grandfather or something

1/22/2009 7:47:25 PM

IT WAS CHARLOTTE'S DAD

THAT'S WHY HER NOSE WAS BLEEDING

BITCH IS DEAD

1/22/2009 7:51:04 PM

i keep rewatching scenes, trying to catch their name tags

i could def see you being right

someone also told me she wasn't happy with her contract or something and will be written off the show

but i doubt that (they were probably talking about the whole no-claire-in-season-5 things

[Edited on January 22, 2009 at 7:58 PM. Reason : more likely her grand-dad, hence why she can't remember mom's maiden name]

1/22/2009 7:57:47 PM

the army guys' nametags were mattingly and jones

1/22/2009 8:39:29 PM

I just read a pretty interesting theory about Faraday and Ms. Hawkings's role on the island

it doesnt have any spoilers but its pretty long, so I wont post it here. If anyone wants a copy of it let me know. Might not be true, but it does make you think about things

1/22/2009 8:44:38 PM

Quote :

"the army guys' nametags were mattingly and jones"

Don Mattingly and Jimmy Jones, teammates on the 1989 and 1990 New York Yankees

Don Mattingly's OPS in 1988 was .815

Coincidence? I think not.

1/22/2009 8:51:05 PM

well that was some shitty casting then, that dude didnt have a 'stache at all

1/22/2009 9:27:21 PM

MATTINGLY!! I told you to shave those sideburns!

1/22/2009 9:42:00 PM

In light of Woodfoot's epic diagram , I'm adding mytwocents to all of this...

Desmond is special because he's already prone to jumping through time. Perhaps it was him jumping through time and opening the hatch door to find Faraday for the first time jumping through time informing him that he's "special". Faraday can break the rules with him because the "rules" don't apply to him--he is "the rules".

1/22/2009 10:03:51 PM

^ yes.

1/23/2009 1:43:34 AM

quick question

why didn't desmond recognize farraday from when they met @ oxford

which consciousness met him then?

the one from the freighter or the one from the scot army?

1/23/2009 2:42:07 AM

scot army

1/23/2009 9:01:02 AM

Is it a possibility that Ms. Hawking is Faraday's mother? He told Desmond to go to Oxford and find his mother, and she was doing some type of calculations in that church.

Also, even though Locke's body is in the casket and he is dead, his consciousness or ghost or whatever might still be wandering around the island... perhaps it gets "trapped" in the past and somehow becomes Jacob?

It would be really cool if the people on the island timeshifted and happened to look at the coast and see a giant statue standing there, because that is the one thing they haven't even mentioned since it appeared.

1/23/2009 10:36:42 AM

I think it's almost certain that Ms. Hawking is Farraday's mother.
Right when they showed her in the basement, my wife said "who is that?", and I said "must be Farraday's mother". Then they did a whole big dramatic reveal thing where it was supposed to be a big revalation when we saw her, but I didn't recognize her from the previous seasons. Anyway, i'd bet she is his mom

1/23/2009 10:42:06 AM

Quote :

"why didn't desmond recognize farraday from when they met @ oxford which consciousness met him then?"

if i'm not mistaken it is farraday who doesn't recognize desmond, and desmond is trying to get farraday to do what it is that he needs to do. also, the two of them very well could have met at the hatch the first time and thus farraday didn't really change anything by knocking on the door to get desmond's attention. as you recall he looked into his book at a certain page right before he knocked on desmond's door and uttered i hope this works. he clearly had something in their specific to desmond in that book.

Quote :

"-Why didn't the Others travel through time with the survivors?"

as far as i can tell its because they are essentially part of the island. so only the new comers are affected by this temporal shift.

Quote :

"But alpert also said that when locke saw him again he wouldn't recognize him. At what points in time does alpert know and not know?"

That point was a good bit into the future if i recall correctly. the plane was already on the ground, rusted and covered in plant life. far too much than would have occurred in a month or so since boone and locke went that way.

when richard tells locke to give him the compass and that he will no longer recognize locke its because they first meet in the past, probably around the time locke is born or before. If its before then that time frame could very well explain the old style military uniforms being worn by the people that sawyer and juliette encountered. I would suspect that all this has happened before and that is why richard has known so much about locke from the very beginning, which includes his birth.

1/23/2009 10:45:22 AM

^^ thats who i thought it was, at first then i completely forgot about it when i saw a) who it was and b) that she knew Ben, even though neither of those disproves the theory.

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1/23/2009 10:45:53 AM

Quote :

"if i'm not mistaken it is farraday who doesn't recognize desmond, and desmond is trying to get farraday to do what it is that he needs to do."

[insert new cloud pic here]

1/23/2009 10:59:37 AM

For a second I thought the guys with guns were the Dharma people that were buried on the island, if everything that time traveled inside the "purple bubble" would they not come back to life in the past? would their bodies disappear? the same way the camp was no longer built? Maybe at some point the statue is whole? What's the significance of the first "event" when the numbers wound down and the sky turned purple? Is that when the islands constant/divergent timeline started for them? Was the wheel part of a giant drill? Remember when Faraday said they couldn't drill 1mm further? The map Faraday had showed the drill already but maybe it's existence on the map is only a cause of it being build previously by someone we already know or another "civilization" of time travelers, see statue. Is this tied into the story of Atlantis somehow? (crazy guess) so maybe Daniel is right, you can't change the past, but that doesn't mean you can't jump to an alternate dimension/timeline? Maybe Desmond has this ability and his will to be with Penny is so strong that no matter which alternate dimension he jumps too she is part of his story, his abilities are still confusing to me.

[Edited on January 23, 2009 at 11:06 AM. Reason : asdf]

1/23/2009 11:00:18 AM

Quote :

"WOW JUST WOW"

1/23/2009 11:13:58 AM