Their closed captioning person needs to work on their transcribing skills.

"Don Key Hote"

2/10/2009 4:08:06 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/4512231/

2/10/2009 6:58:57 PM

so the more I think about it the more I realize that the CC guys are right. I wouldn't carry, but I can't back up my arguments against it well enough to think its a bad idea. It works everywhere else so it might as well happen on campus the same way.

Now good luck getting it passed

2/10/2009 7:02:42 PM

Hey, I was on TV

2/10/2009 7:15:14 PM

the wral story online is pretty good, but the NCSU Chief of Police is missing one important note - I don't think anyone is in favor of having guns in the dorms....

2/10/2009 8:44:08 PM

not sure how that happened... my bad

[Edited on February 10, 2009 at 8:44 PM. Reason : .]

2/10/2009 8:44:08 PM

There was a great turn out tonight for the meeting. There were at least 12 people there, as well as the Technician, and the N&O.
We accomplished a lot tonight as well. We will try and have 'minutes' up tomorrow for those of you who could not make it.

Thanks to everyone who came out. Tell your friends. It is great to see new faces.

2/10/2009 9:15:49 PM

^Yeah, I was happy to meet the faces behind the aliases. It looks to me that there is no turning back now; we're going to have to work on ironing out how to accomplish the goals of the group. It's going to get interesting.

2/10/2009 10:02:42 PM

An article from N&O in chapel hill.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1049442.html

Another link to wral, and the video is online.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/4513014/

2/10/2009 10:09:15 PM

good to know that the word is getting out already. great stuff.

2/10/2009 10:18:10 PM

We are not going to have an arms race on campus. This is a bad idea.

2/10/2009 10:18:48 PM

if you think there will be an arms race, you are mistaken.

and provide evidence that this is a bad idea instead of just posting an uneducated, unfounded, unsupported opinion

2/10/2009 10:20:13 PM

Quote :

"On college campuses, officials often say they support current law because guns can present danger and because even knowledgeable, licensed gun owners aren't trained for a violent, tense situation where the use of force is necessary."

thing is, most of the time, public safety officers have less training than the average concealed carry permit holder. i've met public safety officers that hate guns. wtf?

i'd like to see the range results of the public safety officers during qualifications.

2/10/2009 10:22:52 PM

did i notice incorrectly, or did that reporter from wral have a right handed shoulder harness on backwards?

also - its pretty clear that the nc state police chief (not sure if i got the title correct) isnt on the same page. has any thought been given to maybe treat him to dinner and invite him/his colleagues to a meeting. it might make for a convincing arguement if all people involved are on the same page and not butting heads over agreed-upon issues (ie guns in dorms)

2/10/2009 10:40:40 PM

Why are people so paranoid to think they need to carry a gun on campus. When was the last time someone was hurt or killed at NCSU? You are probably ten times safer on campus then anywhere else in Raleigh.

[Edited on February 10, 2009 at 10:54 PM. Reason : .]

2/10/2009 10:54:26 PM

no one is paranoid. answer this question: what makes a college campus so much different than the sidewalk right beside it? Why can I CC/OC all along Hillsborough, but yet, if I take one step towards NC State the world changes and I commit a felony?

I'm betting that you have used/been in a place/etc that has an airbag, seat belt, fire extinguisher, smoke alarm, airplane oxygen mask, an emergency exit, a flotation device under my airline seat, a house alarm, etc. Why are you so paranoid?

2/10/2009 10:58:49 PM

Because young people are emotionally unstable, irresponsible and forgetful. That and no one has ever gone mental and went on a fire extinguishing spree.

2/10/2009 11:33:19 PM

The reporter was wearing a right handed Galco Miami Classic II.
He was wearing it backward.

It is my holster, and I showed him 3 hours prior how to wear it. I guess he didn't remember

2/10/2009 11:35:07 PM

^^you obviously don't know CC permitting requirements, the type of people who get them, nor any statistics about CC'ers.

2/10/2009 11:45:08 PM

steve you can't win this man, after enough time spent on the issue you realize that the same people that will be carrying on campus will be carrying off campus anyway. So just use the same restrictions that you would in any other crowded area and let it happen.

I agree that you don't HAVE to carry a gun to be safe but if you want to, and are legally able to, you should be able to. And after much thought on the issue I realize that a law abiding citizen with a weapon is an asset for public safety on campus. No ones saying that 18 yo freshmen should carry a gun, or that they should be all over dorms, but licensed CC permit holders should be allowed to carry on the campus side of hillsborough.

But again its going to be very difficult to get passed so i wish those lobbying for CC on Campus the best of luck

2/11/2009 12:06:54 AM

Quote :

"That and no one has ever gone mental and went on a fire extinguishing spree."

I have, but the university made me sign something, so I can't talk about it.

2/11/2009 12:07:12 AM

^ LOL

Look, here's my non-dramatic response. First of all, I own several long guns and several handguns. I know that people want to be protected. I just think that this would be a step backwards and is an answer to a problem that hasn't materialized.

In the history of American colleges and universities, there has only been a handful of incidents in the history of our country that might have been solved by having an armed student populace. And in that same time, hundreds of millions of people have safely navigated college campuses without having to carry firearms. In a statistical sense, the incident rate is negligible, perhaps 0.001 percent or less. I would assume the number of deaths by accidental firearm discharge are much, much higher.

Placing the impetus on student safety from police to a weapon carrying student doesn't seem like a very safe option. A weapon with a chambered round is dependent on the quality of the weapon's safety, which can fail. The round itself can be defective. A student can fall on the steps or slouch in their desk and put stress on the hammer. And there's no assurance that if a situation did ever arise the student would interpret it correctly and would shoot the right person, and we haven't even considering the dangers of ricocheting bullets.

To me it just seems like the solution is worse than the problem.

2/11/2009 12:30:32 AM

Have you researched how a weapon works? The shoot when you pull the trigger, not when you lean on them. It has been over 15 years since a firearm has been manufactured that does not have a hammer block integrated into it as a drop safety.

2/11/2009 12:45:35 AM

^^everything you just posted would apply ANYWHERE - If it happens on a college campus it happens off a college campus. As for crime rates - any crime rate justifies the right to defend one's self. In the end, everything you mentioned would apply anywhere people carry; and it just doesn't hold true. You have yet to explain why a college campus is any different than the rest of public.

2/11/2009 7:16:16 AM

^ yeah, speaking of problems that haven't statistically materialized.

I mean, yeah, I hear him on a couple of those things...but as far as I'm concerned, the burden of proof should be on the side that wants to restrict freedoms, and I think that they have a very tough case to make.

[Edited on February 11, 2009 at 7:42 AM. Reason : and some things, like defective rounds spontaneously shooting from a handgun...come on, dude.]

2/11/2009 7:41:55 AM

Seems to me that most of the people advocating for CC on campus aren't paranoid about some sort of crazy guy coming on campus to kill people -- and I'm not either.

The argument really seems to be a philosophical one. If people are legally allowed to carry OFF campus, what's so magical about a college campus that makes it illegal to carry ON campus? It's the principle of the thing.

2/11/2009 9:28:19 AM

Quote :

"25 members at UNC-CH and about 300 at N.C. State"

that made me LOL.

more fundamentals some of you uneducated individuals need to remember: YOU HAVE TO BE AT LEAST 21 YEARS OLD TO GET A CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT.

for some reason or another this seems to continually get lost as this thread grows. also, before anyone decides to post remarks against carrying on campus (or carrying at all for that matter), it would be prudent for that person to read the entire thread. sure, it will take you a while, but you will have a much better understanding of where the rest of us stand.

It's all about transmission of information. The more people that understand that "crazed CCP holders" aren't going to be running around campus waving firearms, the better.

2/11/2009 10:26:49 AM

Quote :

"crazed CCP holders"

they don't exist

2/11/2009 11:29:10 AM

Look, the reason I carry is not because I expect someone to start spraying bullets in a Belk's or Best Buy. I carry because when I'm going back to my car in the middle of the night, or I'm in a convienance store at one in the morning, things get shady. It's not unreasonable to be afraid of being mugged in a situation like that - we know this, because it happens all the time. What's the difference between me walking back to a car at night when I'm at the mall, as opposed to D.H. Hill? We know criminals don't respect the magical campus 'no-weapon' boundary.

However, even though I know it's higly unlikely that we would ever have a school shooting, I'm the kind of person who believes in being prepared. It's not paranoia - hope for the best, plan for the worst, as the Army says.

[Edited on February 11, 2009 at 12:32 PM. Reason : Sentence Fragment]

2/11/2009 12:31:23 PM

^^ exactly my point

2/11/2009 2:12:39 PM

Quote :

"The way I see it, if a building/place is going to prohibit legal CCW, then there should be a means to ensure that EVERYONE entering the place is also unarmed (with appropriate armed trained security). If you provide THAT kind of protection for a University campus, maybe then we can stop pushing for campus CCW."

2/11/2009 2:30:09 PM

Quote :

"the burden of proof should be on the side that wants to restrict freedoms, and I think that they have a very tough case to make."

2/11/2009 4:03:24 PM

So did anyone notice my mug today

2/11/2009 4:10:18 PM

Yep. I have about 10 copies if you want one and didn't get it.

2/11/2009 4:27:22 PM

lollerz. I think the caption overstated my role. And I've got a few copies, thanks though

2/11/2009 4:28:33 PM

We will be hosting an information session on the Brickyard tomorrow from 11am till 3pm.

Feel free to come out and voice your 'opinions'.

2/12/2009 2:23:30 PM

Some 'minutes' from the last meeting can be found here:
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=558230

2/12/2009 2:54:12 PM

and an article from Chapel Hill
http://www.dailytarheel.com/2.6423/online_exclusives/students_object_to_concealed_weapons_policy-1.1374972

2/13/2009 10:43:26 AM

Good story on the Guilford County Sheriff talking about the increase in applications for CCW. My favorite quote from the sheriff, "We've not had any problems at all out of the 5,000-plus folks that we've issued concealed carry permits to," he said.

http://www.wxii12.com/news/18684044/detail.html

2/13/2009 4:27:18 PM

Quote :

"Jon Barnwell, captain of the N.C. State police department, said a weapons-free environment allowed police to approach armed people on campus without having to check if they are allowed to have them or not first."

This is a worthless statement. So what if they have to check to see if the person is legally carrying or not. Hell that sort of already applies - what if RPD or another LEO was on campus, say not in uniform, and someone says they saw a guy with a gun - are CP just gonna shoot first?

And again - just like in public, no one will know who is CC'ing, so why/how would CP be checking to see if people are legal or not? If some moron is walking around with a gun in hand, sure check'em and then book'em.

Other LEO's don't have a problem with this anyways.


Reiterate:

Quote :

""We've not had any problems at all out of the 5,000-plus folks that we've issued concealed carry permits to"

- Guilford County Sheriff BJ Barnes

[Edited on February 15, 2009 at 11:39 AM. Reason : .]

2/15/2009 11:38:04 AM

while i usually like the quality of the dth, its clear from the statement by the public safety rep that they don't understand the issue or it wasnt explained to them by the reporter

2/15/2009 11:54:36 AM

Quote :

"This is a worthless statement."

true, as it shows the laziness of the staff/admin hired to protect the students. what about the people they never catch, who commit crime all over campus?

armed individuals usually won't stop when someone asks them to show ident. CC'ers will ALWAYS comply, as it is the law.

2/15/2009 1:03:47 PM

^good point. also good to point out (for people who may be in the dark) that the law states that if youre having dialogue with an officer, that you must show identification and permit and inform the officer that you are carrying. as in, if youre stopped for any reason, even other than a gun, you still have to inform him for his safety and peace of mind.

[Edited on February 15, 2009 at 3:00 PM. Reason : in reference to CC]

2/15/2009 3:00:01 PM

^great statement - should have been stated earlier probably. And people need to realize this - basically, if you are talking to a LEO about anything official (i.e. other than hey, etc) it is the law that you must present your CCP & ID regardless of whether you are carrying.

I don't know of any CC'er that wouldn't disclose this. As soon as the LEO runs your ID, he's going to know if you have a CCP (it comes up first on his screen) and if you didn't disclose that you have a CCP (and whether or not you're carrying) you are in for a rough ride.

2/15/2009 3:25:59 PM

Quote :

""Jon Barnwell, captain of the N.C. State police department, said a weapons-free environment allowed police to approach armed people on campus without having to check if they are allowed to have them or not first.""

seems like the only way that this would be an issue would be when an officer was approaching a situation where guns were already drawn, and i cant think of a scenario where they would be approaching without some knowlege that there was person there trying to use their weapon for the good. So I dont see how this position makes sense.

It sounds like someone trying to justify banning while not being able to come up with a legitimate reason.

2/16/2009 1:03:32 AM

honestly.. i think the number of accidents will outweigh the number of "bad situations" prevented.

2/16/2009 1:11:18 AM

what accidents would these be?

2/16/2009 1:33:39 AM

^^

Quote :

"My favorite quote from the sheriff, "We've not had any problems at all out of the 5,000-plus folks that we've issued concealed carry permits to," he said."

Because there's a magic line that makes CCP holders go nuts on campuses? Something about places that say "school", "college", or "university" make CCP holders mentally retarded and they'd suddenly start tossing their pistols in the air while walking across campus? There aren't any "accidents" anywhere else. Why the fuck would there be just because they're on a campus?

2/16/2009 7:57:27 AM

Maybe its a money issue. As seen by some of the posts in here, people think there are crazy accidents or that CCP holders could be irresponsible. Maybe universities are afraid that parents of students would hold these same opinions and wouldn't want to send their kid to a school that supported armed students.

2/16/2009 8:00:22 AM

^
1.) What crazy accidents?
2.) In what way would CCPers be irresponsible - where do you see this and what do yousee off campus?
3.) Of those living in NC, parents would not send their kid to a safer in-state school thus pay the huge amounts of money for private or out-of-state tuition to send their kids elsewhere? Also, this hasn't been the case at universities that do allow CCoC

[Edited on February 16, 2009 at 8:10 AM. Reason : .]

2/16/2009 8:10:25 AM