Two things stand out in this thread:

1) Hooksaw is a NCSU TA. A man that makes vehement, rabid personal attacks and posts material thats so extreme right wing that it would be at home on stormfront is a NCSU TA.

2) joe_schmoe gets the self righteous windbag of the year award which is impressive considering we just started 2009. You're not defending Nelson Mandela dude, you're appealing on behalf of a guy who absolutely refused to acknowledge any logic or reason counter to his quite narrow and often flawed viewpoints.

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 11:10 AM. Reason : >.<]

2/18/2009 11:09:44 AM

who cares what Hooksaw's opinions were? thats irrelevant. he should be free to express his opinion in this forum without fear of someone coming after him on a personal level. that should apply to all posters here...not just ones you agree with.

2/18/2009 11:21:15 AM

Quote :

"How do you know all this?"

\

because I am hooksaw

I can't hide it any longer. I admit it.

2/18/2009 11:24:40 AM

Quote :

"posts material thats so extreme right wing that it would be at home on stormfront is a NCSU TA. "

That is a gross mis-characterization of hooksaw's posts. He does make gross personal attacks, and blindly sticks to contrarian positions, but his positions are rarely that extreme and not even close to stormfront type of posts.

He just blindly defends a single position very fervently without regard for reason, logic, or general principles of discourse. Combine this with his seeming contempt for people younger than himself, hypocrisy, and own self-consciousness, and with the backdrop of TWW, you get our prototypical troll.

Quote :

"who cares what Hooksaw's opinions were? thats irrelevant. he should be free to express his opinion in this forum without fear of someone coming after him on a personal level. that should apply to all posters here...not just ones you agree with."

I agree, but I think people are arguing that hooksaw brought aspects of his personal life here and tried to use it against people, which does somewhat remove the protection of the understood rule that you don't attack people's personal selves.

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM. Reason : ]

2/18/2009 11:29:16 AM

Quote :

"who cares what Hooksaw's opinions were? thats irrelevant. he should be free to express his opinion in this forum without fear of someone coming after him on a personal level. that should apply to all posters here...not just ones you agree with."

Pay attention, this is the second time you've made essentially the same post. People didn't dislike Hooksaw for his opinions. You and eyedrb have more or less the same strictly conservative politics that hooky had, and no one is threatening you guys with anything. Most people hated dicksaw for the inability to deal with him on a reasonable and sane level. The guy was looking for a fight in every single thread he made or commented on. Fact.

2/18/2009 11:37:14 AM

Quote :

"I think people are arguing that hooksaw brought aspects of his personal life here and tried to use it against people"

thats why I asked ambrosia. did he do anything in his personal life that effected anyone here? did he threaten students because he was a TA? or are people simply making the assumption that he would do some unethical things because he brought that fact to light?

Quote :

"The guy was looking for a fight in every single thread he made or commented on. Fact."

I dont necessarily disagree, but I fail to see how others are not lumped into this...how he was singled out. I think there are others who do the same but hold a different viewpoint and therefore are not held to the same standard. I also think that a lot of times he was goaded into saying some of the more off the wall stuff he posted.

just my $.02 and I still dont think any of that justifies hacking his unity account or threatening to talk to his superiors.

2/18/2009 1:55:50 PM

Quote :

"I dont necessarily disagree, but I fail to see how others are not lumped into this...how he was singled out. I think there are others who do the same but hold a different viewpoint and therefore are not held to the same standard."

Who?

Quote :

"I also think that a lot of times he was goaded into saying some of the more off the wall stuff he posted. "

Hilarious comment from a staunch personal responsibility Republican like yourself.

Quote :

"just my $.02 and I still dont think any of that justifies hacking his unity account or threatening to talk to his superiors."

Any rational person here will agree.

2/18/2009 2:04:45 PM

I am not going to single anyone out and I dont think anyone is near as 'expressive' as he was.

I dont think hooksaw denies any responsibility for what said but I do think he was provoked. doesnt make it right, but its an observation. people get provoked to anger no matter their political affiliation.

2/18/2009 2:23:53 PM

Quote :

"Hilarious comment from a staunch personal responsibility Republican like yourself"

so, by your logic, Democrats such as yourself have no personal responsibility.



hey, this IS fun.

2/18/2009 3:08:58 PM

That wasn't my logic at all, thanks for playing.

2/18/2009 3:14:49 PM

yes, its an extension of your flawed logic.

i swear you're like the Rush Limbaugh of the left.

except more fail.

2/18/2009 3:17:42 PM

Personal responsibility is a trait more often touted by those on the right, and there are certain people on this message board that are quicker to cry about it than others. DaBird is one of those people. Me emphasizing a certain aspect of his politics has nothing to do with any other political ideology I don't even know why you are arguing this. I know TSB isn't as animated as it once was, so maybe it's time you find a different message board to stir up trouble.

2/18/2009 3:23:44 PM

I think i can cite the "WTF is wrong with webmail" thread as being broadly representative of a group of threads that epitomized events that lead up hooksaw's abrupt departure.

ive summed up the main points of the early thread here: message_topic.aspx?topic=554951&page=2#12640871

the thing about doing this in Chit Chat, is that people over there tend to be a lot less tolerant of the this sort of behavior and speech than we do in TSB.

but the real question here is this: No matter how arrogant and abrasive he is, whether you like him or not, is this sort of buffoonery deserving of threats against his livelihood or physical well-being?

all of you, whatever your political persuasion is, must admit that NO ONE -- not hooksaw, not myself, or yourself, or anyone else -- deserves to be fucked with at a personal level because he is an asshole online.

hell i'm as big an asshole as anyone, and I've beed dead-goddamned-wrong on a number of issues. The Attorney General / Executive Branch fiasco comes to mind.

but holy shit, i dont want someone tracking me down at my goddamned place of employment, or calling my wife for godssakes because of soemthing stupid i've done here!

fucking hell.







[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 5:48 PM. Reason : ]

2/18/2009 5:41:46 PM

I don't think his physical well being was materially threatened.

Hooksaw constantly brought up his livelihood and he shouldnt have been too surprised when people used it against him.

If he gets his jollies trolling internet message boards, he should not have picked one where he aids students in his position of being a TA (see his study hall posts).

There's a nice, lively politics section here: http://www.maclife.com/ for example that would welcome hooksaw and he wouldn't have to worry about offending his potential students.

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 5:47 PM. Reason : ]

2/18/2009 5:45:23 PM

you're missing the point.

(1) people have threatened to expose him to his employer.

(2) people have threatened him with murder.

are the threats credible? perhaps not, but does that make it okay? was DNLs rape threat against Jen credible? I dont think so, but he got permabanned for it.

and why should he have to leave this site? hes an NCSU student.

i've tried to go to other sites, but i have nothing to sustain my interest. I like this place because the average level of education is higher than typical internet boards, and because of my connection with NCSU... a nostalgia thing. just because i'm graduated and moved away, is someone going to "decide" that I should have to leave this site?

2/18/2009 5:54:27 PM

You really should stop referencing the dnl/jen situation completely. That's a case where many details are not public.

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 5:58 PM. Reason : lkjsd]

2/18/2009 5:57:44 PM

^^ I'm not saying he should have to leave TWW.

I'm saying that he can't post as both a douche AND a TA on the same board without causing problems for himself. He has to choose one, but he can't choose both, unless he is willing to live with the problems associated with choosing both. I would support him having a secret alias, but it's really too late for that.

And I would bet that peoples' lives are threatened on a daily, if not hourly, basis across TWW. But it doesn't take much more than common sense to realize which ones are credible or not, or at least realize Tiberius was obviously joking. I'm not familiar with DnL's comments about Jen, but DnL was a known creepy guy. Tiberious, AFAIK, doesn't have a strong enough e-personality to warrant the same judgment.

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 6:01 PM. Reason : ]

2/18/2009 6:01:26 PM

Physical threats, phishing attempts, etc. are obviously illegal. Contacting his employer is not.

2/18/2009 6:03:49 PM

I think judging from the evidence presented, it's a pretty big jump to say that he was legitimately threatened...and it is getting to be a pretty monotonous argument to keep going back to it when I think almost anyone would agree they weren't actual threats.

That being said, I would also like to argue that even though this is a message board, I still don't see why there shouldn't be repercussions for insulting people. In real like, if someone says to you, "If you call me an asshole one more time I'm going to punch you" and you call him an asshole, and he punches you...that's your fault...that's life. But just to reiterate, because I know how it works on here and I know that someone will immediately jump on this analogy and say, "BUT HE WAS THREATENING HIS LIFE NOT PUNCHING"...I do not feel he was legitimately threatened, bottom line.

2/18/2009 6:05:16 PM

okay, i'll quit referencing DNL/Jen then. obviously i only know what was posted in Chit Chat and F.F... which is not much.

and no, i dont really think the threats against hooksaw were credible.

however, I think he has some reason to be concerned, since some unknown people have in the past attempted to fuck with him directly.

but your [moron's] argument about him blurring the lines between online and RL, by presenting himself as a voice of authority... does have some merit. i have to admit he has brought a lot of this on himself.

I still dont think it's right, though.

and i guess i've just about run out of words on this issue.






[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 6:09 PM. Reason : ]

2/18/2009 6:07:35 PM

Quote :

"but your [moron's] argument about him blurring the lines between online and RL, by presenting himself as a voice of authority... does have some merit. i have to admit he has brought a lot of this on himself."

I was making that argument on the first page

I demand you apologize for this insult to my honor!

2/18/2009 6:13:13 PM

i was trying to ignore it then, because it was difficult to argue around it.






[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 6:17 PM. Reason : ]

2/18/2009 6:14:22 PM

Quote :

"That being said, I would also like to argue that even though this is a message board, I still don't see why there shouldn't be repercussions for insulting people. In real like, if someone says to you, "If you call me an asshole one more time I'm going to punch you" and you call him an asshole, and he punches you...that's your fault...that's life."

I think people recognize this which is why TWW, in the absence of a real set of rules, allows a certain amount of shit-talking/counter-trolling. I always viewed this as our self-corrective mechanism emergent in the absence of strong moderation. If someone is irritated to the point of not wanting to post anymore, then the system works. This is why, I thought, people mercilessly picked on hooksaw for being old. It clearly irritated him, and if anything was going to make him keep himself inline, it was this.

But, I think hooksaw's achilles' heel was that he was a TA, and a TA REALLY shouldn't be saying and posting the things he posted.

If he had been forced to stop posting by TWW admins, i'd be fully behind j_s on this, but considering he left on his own, there's not much that could be done or said. He left, he can come back if he wanted to (and probably will after more time has passed, I predict), there's nothing we as a group can really do.

^^ It was actually your post on the first page that guided my opinion on this issue


[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 6:19 PM. Reason : and i'm never wrong]

2/18/2009 6:17:16 PM

i will admit he should have separated his day-to-day posting from the fact that he TA'd a class. he would have saved himself a lot of grief, and maybe even not made as many enemies in the first place.


I think the reason why i feel such affinity for hooksaw in this case, is that (1) i'm an asshole, too, and (2) i can imagine how disturbing it would be if someone tried to stalk me IRL at my employer or residence to retaliate for me having delivered some internet butthurt.





[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 6:25 PM. Reason : ]

2/18/2009 6:21:59 PM

(1) Everybody is an asshole on the internet.

(2) I agree. I think this is one of the 'dangerous' things about the internet--most believe they're anonymous because you can sit at home in your underwear and whip out your nom de guerre. In reality, no one is really anonymous. All the things you say and the weirdos you meet on the internet can show up in real life.

Hell, the internet just ID'd someone in under an hour using a blurry picture.

2/18/2009 6:33:12 PM

I'm done arguing this this thread. I'm declaring a stalemate.


When it comes down to it, I'm sorry he's had to leave. Believe it or not, overall I enjoyed his presence even as much as i have been totally frustrated by his bloviating arrogance.

Yeah, sometimes he's about as subtle as a bag of hammers, but I think at the end of the day he added value to TSB.

2/18/2009 6:38:25 PM

Quote :

"i can imagine how disturbing it would be if someone tried to stalk me IRL at my employer or residence to retaliate for me having delivered some internet butthurt"

When a full 100% of your posts include insults of real people and just being the most outrageous asshole on the site...well, you should probably think about watching your back.

I know I have a helluva reputation around here, but I've been pretty clear to not challenge people to real life confrontations and I typically don't cross lines that get too personal (someones appearance, talking shit about family or people close to them, etc). Most of any trolling that I have ever done has been limited to rebuttals of what people have said and how I think they are a moron for saying it, this is my reasoning.

2/18/2009 7:34:25 PM

He didn't have to leave.

He chose to leave.

2/18/2009 9:38:07 PM

Quote :

"but I think at the end of the day he added value to TSB."

You think wrong.

2/18/2009 9:48:08 PM

Quote :

"i can imagine how disturbing it would be if someone tried to stalk me IRL at my employer or residence to retaliate for me having delivered some internet butthurt"

You don't have to concern yourself about this. You're not a teacher at NC State. And if you are, you haven't rubbed are faces in it. So no worries, man.

You don't cross the line.

He does. And when there was a vague idea that he might be accountable for his behavior as a professional, he got scared and ran off.

If you're a professional at NCSU, yes, you should take extra care to behave yourself (since you might have students on here) or conceal your identity. Or just do what you want and deal with the fact that people might judge you for it.

(I might feel really bad for the guy if someone actually did try to mess with his personal life.)

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 9:56 PM. Reason : ...]

2/18/2009 9:52:12 PM

Quote :

"(1) people have threatened to expose him to his employer."

what the fuck

THIS

IS

A

PUBLIC

WEBSITE

2/19/2009 12:33:42 AM

okay, Woodfoot ... at this point, it's pretty clear that you personally have better things to spend your time on than post stalking hooksaw and tattling to his employer. Your IF-THEN 'threat' was hypothetical in nature. but given hooksaw's problems in the past, i know why he's sensitive to the issue.

the whole situation is unfortunate. it's unfortunate that hooksaw is such an asshole, its unfortunate that he didnt keep his professional life isolated from his online rants, its unfortunate that his own personal attacks resulted in escalating personal attacks towards his own self.

One good thing: this thread has been a learning experience for me. It's given me some things to think about.

2/19/2009 1:19:57 AM

what i don't understand is that you people, sorry, you people are willing to concede that yes, hooky's posts would get him in trouble with his administrators, but you're not worried about that, instead you're worried about his "freedom" to treat NCSU college students like vermin

YOU PAY HIS SALARY

this isn't just some guy working in an office somewhere who kills his time trolling college students

THIS GUY COULD BE YOUR "PROFESSOR*"

(*his words, not mine)

2/19/2009 1:33:12 AM

he's just a grad student. he's working on his master's AFAIK.

and he's already lost his TA position... possibly due to someone from here bitching about him.

he's not a professor. he's not an educator. he's an ex-TA.

big fucking deal.




[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 1:42 AM. Reason : ]

2/19/2009 1:37:28 AM

so big you had to make this thread and put a couple people's names in your mouth

or, i'm sorry, maybe i'm confused

but was my user name not the first thing you replied to your own thread with

you paged me

you got me

2/19/2009 1:46:19 AM

what do you want? an apology? Look, there was an accusation that you threatened him. I posted the accusation and called you to account for it.

on further review, it seems the threat was hypothetical and lacking any real crediblity. you've argued your defense pretty tightly, and your position is consistent.

i've got no further questions, there's nothing left to charge you with.

you're free to go.





[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 2:17 AM. Reason : ]

2/19/2009 1:54:54 AM

free to go?

i'm not going anywhere till this shit has a bucket next to it

2/19/2009 2:16:20 AM

oh, look!

<-- palindrome




[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 2:21 AM. Reason : ]

2/19/2009 2:17:32 AM

you know what else is a palindrome

this is a fucking stupid thread filled with accusations and rhetoric that are as outlandish as they are foolish

shit, no its not

i was thinking of the panama canal one

2/19/2009 2:22:06 AM

its one thing when you have people convinced i'm an ass/douche/prick/contrary bastard

thats easy

i convince people of that on a daily fucking basis, post by post

but when you have people convinced i'm the guy who would ever take this shit offline

thats when you meet your "new overlord"

2/19/2009 2:25:39 AM

'welcome our new overlords' was just a popculture reference to the heyday of Slashdot. (how dated it seems now.)

don't get too big a head about it.

2/19/2009 1:45:32 PM

its technically a simpsons reference used all over the internet

2/19/2009 5:45:57 PM

well, damn. you got me there.

i guess we're even now. lets be friends.

2/19/2009 7:38:32 PM

geeez get a room or something the two's of you.

2/19/2009 7:46:39 PM

I missed the whole departure of this guy, but based on what I experienced with him back when I became one of the first people to acknowledge that I found it disturbing that a man in his 40s was regularly posting threads asking 18 and 19 year olds about their sexuality, I found it more than a little disturbing. He really didn't do much to endear himself to anyone with the whole attempt to make his job as a TA seem so fucking important. He wasn't out of bounds per say with his subject material, but he took things too personally. Someone who feels the need to brag about their sexual prowess anytime anyone calls them out on their faulty assumptions, they should expect the shit to fly. Not to mention, he started sending me really angry PMs after I questioned his usage of material from the Competitive Enterprise Institute (which is pretty much Richard Mellon Scafie's personal operation to promote the beliefs of him and his cohorts) to call into question climate change (all while refusing to answer anyone's questions or address info I sent him from actual university studies). Like, really scary stuff.

I really don't know what his problem is.

But he had no reason to be censored, of course, if that was the case, and I have no idea what the case was.

But if he's gonna exercise his right to free speech, I'm gonna exercise my right and invoke its corrolary: the right to be offended.

Quote :

"he's just a grad student. he's working on his master's AFAIK. and he's already lost his TA position... possibly due to someone from here bitching about him. he's not a professor. he's not an educator. he's an ex-TA. big fucking deal."

he needs to learn to exercise discretion for real. geeze. that really sounds pretty troublesome on his part. makes you wonder if he has problems in real life like he did on here.


[Edited on February 20, 2009 at 6:32 PM. Reason : .]

2/20/2009 6:29:26 PM

Good riddance.

The guy mentioned his TA position in every third post, and used it to try and establish superiority over all of us non-40 year old grad students. HUGE SURPRISE that it bit him in the ass.

2/20/2009 11:38:15 PM

I was a TA and all I ever did was grade papers and take attendence. Big lot of good that did me.

(cept for the fact that I got paid)

[Edited on February 22, 2009 at 3:23 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2009 3:22:51 PM

All too often these days people can't speak their minds because of their job. I never had a problem with hooksaw. I also think instructor/student interaction is a good thing.
...
no homo

2/24/2009 2:19:47 PM

Woodfoot used to be a fun loving guy. he seems to be very bitter and confrontational since he's come back this time.


maybe this is why i stay out of TSB

2/24/2009 3:02:41 PM

I wonder who Hooksaw is verbally abusing now, since he cannot do it here.

2/24/2009 3:05:02 PM